Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
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Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2022 01:09:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 03 21:09:42 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45689 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8Aas-00073C-5Z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 21:09:42 -0400 Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]:60309) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <snickerbockers@HIDDEN>) id 1o8AV3-0006uf-MZ for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 21:03:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 01:03:26 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=washemu.org; s=protonmail; t=1656896615; x=1657155815; bh=r/VW3aQA+I0fwb8SfCN9lbWGxz2vWv2b83p/T+VnfEo=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc: Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=HWiMLIRoGd+kB12wssu6JstQVZvNV4J3F42r0NsXU6X4NG2Ei65TIwaUwPS6aXyvM ePBFLH1hX2uQmVpC6RBRqK3Iu0VRqU2RjrcEniqezHEBSnGzd6zeM2VyNWNkUaCm3F xltSouRoJaBkTwkwdO1/kRpGa9yuA+mkJJzv7sdM= To: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org From: snickerbockers <snickerbockers@HIDDEN> Subject: i find binary-as-unsigned to be very helpful Message-ID: <87let9r8o5.fsf@HIDDEN> Feedback-ID: 11686555:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Jul 2022 21:09:39 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: snickerbockers <snickerbockers@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) hello, I use binary-as-unsigned in my .emacs, and I saw that the help page said to e-mail you if I find it useful. Below is a function i made that displays a 32-bit two's complement of a given integer in hex. I do a lot of reverse-engineering of low-level programs, so it is very useful for me to have a quick way to see how a given integer is actually represented in the hardware. if binary-as-unsigned wasn't available to make format do most of the work for me, this function would be a lot longer and more complicated. (defun to-hex(value) "convert a signed int to its 32-bit two's complement in hex notation" (interactive "svalue:") (let ((binary-as-unsigned t)) (message (substring (format "%08x" (cl-parse-integer value)) -8)))) (global-set-key (kbd "C-c h") 'to-hex) Thanks, snickerbockers
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.snickerbockers <snickerbockers@HIDDEN>
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Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Aug 2018 09:37:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 23 05:37:57 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58314 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fsm3x-0004le-67 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3v-0004lS-8v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3p-0004Ep-85 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:40390) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3p-0004Ee-4L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34111) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3o-0004Lr-EA for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3l-0004A4-5Y for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:48 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=52161 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm3k-000494-Tm for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:37:45 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fsm1c-0003X1-Gp for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:35:32 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:37:37 +0200 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <m2o9dtv2xq.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> <105453de-7910-f300-15d0-61e8dcae180a@HIDDEN> <m2lg9yh183.fsf@HIDDEN> <e33e3248-6c2f-04d6-eec0-44377af1d88d@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@HIDDEN User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:KaWx1xXKiM/js6RNyng4LTVifLM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.8 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.8 (-----) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > Helmut Eller wrote: >> So you actually changed the default behavior even if you said you >> wouldn't? > > That was not my intent. Sorry, I messed up the default settings in a > last-minute change. Thanks for catching that so quickly. I installed > the attached to fix it. So you actually changed the default behavior again even if you said you wouldn't? Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jul 2018 03:20:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 23:20:54 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fitJG-0003bx-IV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fitJF-0003bi-9k for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:53 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fitJ9-0008N5-58 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:48 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fitJ0-0008La-Pg; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:38 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fitJ0-0000Kf-B1; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:38 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <3f7fb7dd-c008-41d5-8090-5c2213652790@default> (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <6f7e8bae-7bf1-4a91-80d8-fef255ab74f7@default> <E1fiAre-0008JK-85@HIDDEN> <3f7fb7dd-c008-41d5-8090-5c2213652790@default> Message-Id: <E1fitJ0-0000Kf-B1@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:20:38 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The intention was not to be harsh I know that, so I am not rebuking you. I'm asking you to make a little extra effort so that you won't inadvertently hurt people's feelings. but to say that, while it is > good to check the sources distributed with Emacs, it is not good > enough. Said that way, it's not harsh at all. Can you see how to say things the non-harsh way the first time? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 21:07:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 17:07:54 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59367 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1finUH-00030X-R5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:07:53 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:60520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1finUF-00030H-HO for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:07:52 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B264B160FB8; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 9Kr_UpKJebEy; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D207160FBE; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id CD2OAcDwP0OP; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B011160FB8; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> <m2wothq5nx.fsf@HIDDEN> <de036670-23d4-cdc6-53c3-8fe7c936c72a@HIDDEN> <m2effpq1yu.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m2effpq1yu.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Helmut Eller wrote: > On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > >> On 07/26/2018 10:16 AM, Helmut Eller wrote: >>> Where is that code? >> >> One example is url-digest-auth-make-cnonce. This was the first I ran >> into. No doubt there are others. > > And how would url-digest-auth-make-cnonce look with bignums? Just like it does now. It would not need to change. > With bignums, disassemble_lisp_time has to support the old > formats and bignums too. Yes, of course. That's not much trouble. The point is that other Lisp code can simply deal with just one integer rather than a tricky list of four integers with mixed bases.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 18:36:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 14:36:04 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59327 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fil7M-0007so-0n for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:36:04 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f43.google.com ([74.125.82.43]:36912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fil7J-0007sI-Fb for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 14:36:02 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f43.google.com with SMTP id n11-v6so2983970wmc.2 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:36:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=KiXWUV5qwMa3ngvYA8qxdEAXGbewrFzV1WmyYLL+uuY=; b=IfHw4d6cujZlEcO4ezlSIzv31UM2rRKv+3I7LBwEwL/ObZ4pZT1dZuJp4c0oyjW3WJ xgrKzFF0CCQIzSa3HNFmwhHmFdXGspsldRjSylgxUCgqUF2hUbfYVX0qQYflOFP93tgo hQXUKmSf0M+WkfuHU9zcCGH5Fqx0ioTwW2MZweED45qGL6PbBGcl/6R8bTv/fM809xqH a1JIsC/j1mbluV75odKVXPKn5mOUwIAvb8j4CTiZ5hEiYxPaqytY1VpiYjwHCn+2mVOX /idIyBbVOcMxkgUghS1m1aN0TtIYnty37JLgvVP3GoDpYjPwdCua9A0ryYDjqmFrhBzU taUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=KiXWUV5qwMa3ngvYA8qxdEAXGbewrFzV1WmyYLL+uuY=; b=h/xu+A7PKTr67aUooM1+5VrHN6goyv6aa0g9CE93M+z3EaTLWK27a31e8fCaygEv5w cg/R6OwOeYOtIxEKTsQR5c5sp/A8SU61N5dJgCCv/1h6vz3NauItrpqKaHu/Gmz3yRiG AtftQJtzFIkqExn05WGh4ISADjZjQXCXKo7HegLvUFoThmVVd3ooOP2fT3wTsWix27Hi J3DbOhZ1UOb3VUe8Js4G0E7+DYKF32MmbcVy7/u8nygIlgsxCldpjmhdBxZ7/Wee72i6 3iL7/eU7aPEnPvxtRpTGJPgutjQNqd0wumos+yqdeoNfvVR9pyag25EavyfrVkjSBKtM yhqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGy/6YxWMXBv9NB1fNFMhCfe1xUYf8ofm9Paa/tWyIKKviZVUPK OprtVl4ysxyzZr7RJ9B41FjwbYuw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpeF2Gr4fMWI2IWyFvrEtKIwpxztgZx3oVHOGsfFUxpCcF7NUozXZ5acVkXHmRHOtWpJnb6LwA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:4405:: with SMTP id r5-v6mr2155927wma.4.1532630155318; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a20-v6sm2620641wmg.23.2018.07.26.11.35.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:35:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> <m2wothq5nx.fsf@HIDDEN> <de036670-23d4-cdc6-53c3-8fe7c936c72a@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 20:35:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: <de036670-23d4-cdc6-53c3-8fe7c936c72a@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:35 -0700") Message-ID: <m2effpq1yu.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 07/26/2018 10:16 AM, Helmut Eller wrote: >> Where is that code? > > One example is url-digest-auth-make-cnonce. This was the first I ran > into. No doubt there are others. And how would url-digest-auth-make-cnonce look with bignums? >> And why would it be difficult to teach >> format-time-string to deal with the tricky bits that current-time >> returns. > > ?! format-time-string already does that. And it's a hassle. Other > Emacs Lisp code inspects timestamps directly too. And it's a hassle > for that code too. Bignums would significantly lessen this > hassle. Surely this is obvious. To me it's not so obvious. E.g. current-time is supposed to "return the current time, as the number of seconds since [epoch]". So, how are you going to represent micro-seconds with bignums? Or, e.g. disassemble_lisp_time deals with formats that are the form (HIGH LOW USEC PSEC) or formats that were used in previous Emacs versions. With bignums, disassemble_lisp_time has to support the old formats and bignums too. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 17:50:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 13:50:44 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59306 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fikPU-0006pq-9J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:50:44 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:33200) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fikPS-0006pd-Co for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:50:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C86C160EBD; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id BHiH8yCdz5ud; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A8B160EC0; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ffwSs-H7CRBp; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD994160EBD; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> <m2wothq5nx.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m2wothq5nx.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/26/2018 10:16 AM, Helmut Eller wrote: > Where is that code? One example is url-digest-auth-make-cnonce. This was the first I ran into. No doubt there are others. > And why would it be difficult to teach > format-time-string to deal with the tricky bits that current-time > returns. ?! format-time-string already does that. And it's a hassle. Other Emacs Lisp code inspects timestamps directly too. And it's a hassle for that code too. Bignums would significantly lessen this hassle. Surely this is obvious.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 17:19:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 13:19:11 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59280 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fijuw-00064P-Sd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55417) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijuv-00064D-6F for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijup-00071b-Dr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:04 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:41933) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijup-00071N-9l for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46376) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijuo-0006Gh-7v for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijuj-0006vN-Ao for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:19:02 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=55315 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijuj-0006up-3b for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:18:57 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1fijsZ-0004t6-R1 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:16:43 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:18:48 +0200 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <m2tvolq5jb.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> <877eli28mp.fsf@HIDDEN> <802d13fa-83a4-fccd-510d-617965509313@HIDDEN> <vz1fu06yx6q.fsf@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Complaints-To: usenet@HIDDEN User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:vRHrAC0LRfufkK1BfyGZwM2fcsQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Andy Moreton wrote: >> That is how other Lisps do it, it works well for them, and Emacs Lisp should >> do likewise. > > That is uncontroversial for arithmetic operations, but how are bitwise > logical operations handled in other lisps with bignums ? In Common Lisp those are defined to behave as if integers were represented in two's complement form, regardless of how integers are represented internally. Interestinlgy, Common Lisp has ASH but no direct equivalent to Emacs Lisp's lsh. Let's see how the bignum proponents extend lsh. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 17:16:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 13:16:13 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fijs5-0005zs-Nv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:16:13 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50]:40581) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fijs2-0005zc-87 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:16:11 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id y9-v6so2787803wma.5 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:16:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=AzvRp9P4cbv1ZwnNQt2SVH3tBJS5q6AgN4I1RYHoFKg=; b=AgghCdzBe1aipShTrWhMJ1o2qoYYTtGbfwijAodlcmq5n0j6eeDLtJEmFnN2u2qjdf Ts3Qvup76HqikZSpvX9TaFfQ2evTlsRPaRrpQ2G0+PN759ZslJDvn4TLuu74cDLYDk9L Zv6H0fIlqoCOQ7e0m3L66Ax/6CqY3WF4jmaz/DLv+kvMyYY59jYDIOy/z2hpAH9IcOav TOn6XEwwbzUkygA1/DE/abxd7O/aimvSo0HHZgri1LQv1/YTjpS6PzVD8Ny1DuFuu4v5 lZklV99CQgPe4Pub/4fmZBWXnWRRfPN+TjxExpyHGv+DSMtzTCBjEKAhKe8/apUlmj6/ g7SA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=AzvRp9P4cbv1ZwnNQt2SVH3tBJS5q6AgN4I1RYHoFKg=; b=MGUmuOEKEfjOmyNDNch6sRKb9bvFxUjgaJRiT1w2NrVKBK5Sx/AAlf+DptVB0kL7sy r9gtZGcNhp6d9jUduf6YSVerSNgQ4xMpWQbvN7m0J3SlCIt91Vb7x0/a6gBkVBGm/K5P MhsrakhXNp6pv1JC9D049WGg6DORjko93gzW+4fX9P9H3zc17AqXY1sM1vlgrwM9ViYZ SyIkM7B1jTg1wPEXW3NGEjSyU9uUCmPzwhgqSqM3DgsOakQnLishMS0MOwJT/4uUZaUc zOfByd38Yljm0+GfavDcaUYh489XYhwjrvJoY5e6PJmKq6/WfezdtLB0TS7bBtY2+JgA hgDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFScKxIZsngtdypnryQGoBPNzdUpNhHQO8Xww8MFd9l9DLJYbXw BNksHdQ4r1+J6QDYs2DHQh0aP0Kk X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfEHUKPj6TyHhYo4sa/HyJQW8bHiVbcOOuDKCGejRDCPDXF6hyk2z+lQtXZPsJwoDnsQwH9vQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5b88:: with SMTP id p130-v6mr2198294wmb.69.1532625364348; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t11-v6sm3040853wru.52.2018.07.26.10.16.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 19:16:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:55:53 -0700") Message-ID: <m2wothq5nx.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > We're talking about 'format' not 'format-time-string', and Emacs code > does apply 'format' with %x to the tricky little integers that > 'current-time' returns. It's a real hassle, and this hassle is > pervasive in Emacs. Having bignums would simplify it significantly. Where is that code? And why would it be difficult to teach format-time-string to deal with the tricky bits that current-time returns. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 16:56:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 12:56:02 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59262 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fijYX-0005WM-SD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 12:56:02 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fijYW-0005W3-B3 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 12:56:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F57160DFD; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id oP-zRGNgtcXG; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775E8160EC1; 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prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <d79f1a10-bc5b-6982-4191-0adbadd4d40d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:55:53 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/26/2018 02:56 AM, Helmut Eller wrote: > How often does one need to print a > time value in hex notation? It happens every time I run Emacs, in standard code shipped with Emacs.=20 I discovered this while doing compatibility checking before I proposed=20 this change. (The code in question continues to work just fine when=20 binary-as-unsigned is nil.) > format-time-string doesn't even support that. We're talking about 'format' not 'format-time-string', and Emacs code=20 does apply 'format' with %x to the tricky little integers that=20 'current-time' returns. It's a real hassle, and this hassle is pervasive=20 in Emacs. Having bignums would simplify it significantly. And this problem is not limited to times. It's also file sizes, buffer=20 and string sizes (currently limited to fixnums, but they shouldn't be),=20 glyph codes, inode numbers, device numbers, file descriptor numbers,=20 inotify masks, windowing parameters, and other stuff I don't even know=20 about. It's pervasive and is a real hassle. By the way, the format %x compatibility checking I mentioned is partly=20 why I have confidence that the practical effects of this change will be=20 minor. Many of the problems that I thought might happen, don't in fact=20 happen, because people who attempt to format negative numbers with %x=20 have already run into portability hassles on 32- vs 64-bit platforms,=20 and so they have written their code so that the platform choice doesn't=20 matter, either by ensuring that the integer is nonnegative or by not=20 caring what string is generated so long as it doesn't lose information.=20 Code written like this (and so far, that's all the code I've found)=20 works just fine when 'format'=C2=A0 %x works like it does in Common Lisp = or=20 Scheme.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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On Thu 26 Jul 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Brett Gilio wrote:
>> I wonder what you mean by "just
>> works" in contrast to what Eli suggested about the inconsistency in
>> behavior between the different function definitions for fixnums and
>> bignums.
>
> I meant that ordinarily Emacs Lisp programmers should not worry whether an
> integer's internal representation is a bignum or a fixnum. Functions like +,
> -,
> *, /, format, read, etc. should accept and generate mathematically correct
> integer values regardless of whether their inputs are fixnums or bignums. If
> an integer fits in a fixnum it is presumably represented that way, but by and
> large Emacs programs should not care about this detail.
>
> That is how other Lisps do it, it works well for them, and Emacs Lisp should
> do likewise.
That is uncontroversial for arithmetic operations, but how are bitwise
logical operations handled in other lisps with bignums ?
AndyM
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 13:52:27 +0100
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On Wed 25 Jul 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Andreas Schwab wrote:
>>> It's more about (read (printf "#x%x" N)) returning N, which is basic
>>> functionality that should work
>> Where is that documented?
>
> You're right, it's not. It's not even documented that (read (printf "%s" N))
> should work for any number N. I'll add something along these lines. I'll also
> warn that (read (printf "#x%x" N)) might not work.
I think you meant (read (format "%s" N)).
AndyM
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 09:56:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 05:56:22 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58359 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fid0Q-0005oD-GR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:56:22 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:51810) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fid0P-0005o0-AL for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:56:21 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f49.google.com with SMTP id y2-v6so1349932wma.1 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:56:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=yHyE21uRk4ipKpPjPeVmt3tOUL/uVnQ7Kf3tNv333Lc=; b=D5OVZ81JSzPESCh8XtQxyAAjKWL/0jklwl/79YzoyXD0DOi7X2tFq5pQPrte/L616s xzbORDoeDP7EtyXDrvcQPPZ/qAixnlIGB/NscdMLcy+B6krrfPQ7rKlUeDuZMo4AGZRv f3dJPVVzdjIC3vWfTPl4+5JkIcHAPJRGDuXs8crqxvObrYABhln6NG0c2UIdfc8TzCJr U/Vd2lwNQompIkhWsgWSdAPLtFHPfNNDjA3u2Ekj3V30FYrxMo3cvIau/XNsxSV/EgO2 Lnr5jXOu/MzwbV4Of1evi+QJqhBakLuqtA3eg5FtfeWXwzL43IPO4JSFaRpVOsWOiLWp BA9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=yHyE21uRk4ipKpPjPeVmt3tOUL/uVnQ7Kf3tNv333Lc=; b=RGcFti7wuCB1YrGMAwCSAh099oTvyvCTrY4aYRA1o/lzztObJp73J3yt61SGhARf0a a/Pqe7YYxSCq5i/+tbpKpqg/mJmhdJy1hstWnkEe8nkMgpZXEcKVIp+Ti3BoWurKszrl 10uViwcRe8DdibsZcNKzys87xo6SlwhqFGdsKOMfhODBldP3AopXnQmsvCiwcYCsaDAK Sn1OEyzf3W+5pu/3ITKvyimp1nqbZ8yhwQLHk5Rfs2veHbwJewloIZzGxcx8IhiSvURW 2SItr8+JYyw02Xz8hrsJ/21/ttCOBODlu4ff6WJv4uaqbkCH+ZeQPttfDJzoGD/SKug1 5PSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGJj+Dl7/DoWwda/jhtqRI1xxFcXlb9WSwisBdyxDJJVb77NNgB pZMDwr0DgZZWwtQWv8sbN2K9+G3D X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpeqUD2yg1yC8rD4axyvKyrFo/58TOnQ/O5LKNUT0mfvMrcT4au0e3UWiCh2Ps9/apcLlD6NJg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2208:: with SMTP id i8-v6mr1026119wmi.105.1532598975378; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m207-v6sm1291113wma.31.2018.07.26.02.56.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:56:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:56:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:31:13 +0200") Message-ID: <m2tvomfhhe.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Jul 26 2018, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. > > The lack of bignums requires workarounds like the first two elements of > (current-time) or the 11th and 12th element of (file-attributes). Yes, that's one of the few places where bignums would be useful. But having a time data-type, maybe just a struct and functions like time-add etc, would also be good solution. How often does one need to print a time value in hex notation? Probably so rareley that format-time-string doesn't even support that. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 09:40:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 05:40:41 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58313 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ficlF-0005Qj-DQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:40:41 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f52.google.com ([74.125.82.52]:35383) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rpluim@HIDDEN>) id 1ficlE-0005QX-Nk for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:40:41 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f52.google.com with SMTP id o18-v6so1332634wmc.0 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:40:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to:gmane-reply-to-list :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=g+bHGIOrXtciLdsX5xN64BGZPbM3TLaQ3dnT0b+UOl0=; b=sBOtcpXlmNSV6JLghzSSJYwx//KUo0M6QX7kogqZ2899pVDVPFQkcfPPsfvWzU7JUr qqm9r2j1w2/7ic1VHBYcyMVYgzs49KoEQ/XUcuWRmS2ABGp2DLhAJLqW0azCEcKDk75a sBhxRwtNs4RkvHXm97rsr83bO5+KCjh4Zes/A6HC5J06R9Ebewjgqpd7aCDCLAocY/mQ 6O9vjfonReLGy1DzBR6rrgF5ggT0b7QFyOB04ObKVxhbDQhn8RjKxzatbfxkIBQunewG 2V7V3ImbursByNExk6n57VApkZZUMEzX1Y5Frt6pvIwPBHMMQSvUmrsmuePyJALHtDBI /dpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:mail-copies-to :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=g+bHGIOrXtciLdsX5xN64BGZPbM3TLaQ3dnT0b+UOl0=; b=sBDKHJsGQwXjzardKQlhcNcZw/gX/o0Y5YA3o2EaIX0eN3QSCZQFr8Xi34UIbp8dDC hLOSCO3h+RJ3xopJ6ro4RyD4GZ/JoBYEXFjUyPlOL94yGCm1YfJufe/9sqHniizVMFrA WmndiS2ypi4Im8vkUom8lmwtavWHQ+Oum8bn319L/x5CK8EdYHw7Ns0OTkJChFVf6577 8S84AiMTUYFlyOZmErpaks4xnGqhbuZTxO6gmfG2VF0o3Nm/2a1t7WiBd5i6PyHTuajd lR2hqbvkhHKsxTX6dDXJdKUKl+Hwf9BF14FqMm3Ggha2nPPHkWyH4XqXfG417L1YT9K3 zssA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFWUcIaCiDYY4ixr1j7vfO48bxiZ43pfh3+Nq5/yK/2ns36G/w0 iB0DutWY5Gj/X2fLrafIRwY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdQu7b+FxzvA9tsOIFi0k5m1viP1GRZf+ygC1lvhYY8EG+fQzofu67tZgl1HSfZHO9qXeX6Ow== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:cc01:: with SMTP id h1-v6mr1006452wmb.82.1532598034903; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpluim-ubuntu ([149.5.228.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i1-v6sm785375wrq.69.2018.07.26.02.40.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes Mail-Copies-To: never Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:40:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:31:13 +0200") Message-ID: <8736w65o8e.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes: > On Jul 26 2018, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. > > The lack of bignums requires workarounds like the first two elements of > (current-time) or the 11th and 12th element of (file-attributes). Not to mention having to represent IP addresses as vectors, thus forcing operations on them to be byte by byte.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 09:39:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 05:39:56 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58309 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fickW-0005PF-47 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:39:56 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f51.google.com ([209.85.221.51]:40823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fickU-0005P0-Ca for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:39:54 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f51.google.com with SMTP id h15-v6so1026428wrs.7 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:39:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=X/y+qvOg8QF1ZmfD784lL8qPzCVjANzoShgmWbaORYc=; b=l1z0tYpuYl0gl2DL46clr327nPsDd/4Rd/8sSIFF9um6ZEvXBPfiRW+nczPYuVW2zR 5fRMdFhhIEz754kQuyvShQbzaUjQIrJcRETztdTT20kOtnTIjqpZIp1ioc4q3KBYh1Yf TFI/4cFXx2bl3u3K6Ddf4QSvjq7oyr5OO5/PGr897JsZuHH5I4cp4G9fx52WAJdfb4EX 9vWYMJREjN1rBVbGlJqSrz6s404fC6RFCdtmGuCJxmzjZd4iOl1JBdYC057c3PNRlelp +aeTnmm/LOIY9FkOucefkax9/WmQMLShxneGcs0L2Kp8nR9S+5sUXRf4354TrLjaPpGe NN9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=X/y+qvOg8QF1ZmfD784lL8qPzCVjANzoShgmWbaORYc=; b=mTfmjZlt0ErbDvwnYV9cnCUh3D40SzloI2JPw/f3NSd7ZvtAypa2Mp0MhvnUEAq7Ke +x5QIw3bKPZ0TTS5kSpH1qbd22RysxLnlp2cdgG+EvIFVvbK1lS9BSJ2XOsqheqqJ8cn ZYms0jZQMomEpVnnUs6gyMvF5mKVsBdmvwrbz5n7MFqgGiR00NCMTtnczaTCl8Eayo4R odWoqXXCbI9DE/SE19yyw+qSedfgzCslhfxLmbYtazPY7mOPakL1djNMOjvxKIDTAxyV P2TCiy8UMFFmOcW3eFZSuQMcSXaGLONcwyEwtxFrU0vJGX5+BoSW3v929NER/6m3jJx1 371A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGBroWoTG6FUfi4EnAVaqIzRvPu32WnXmB+l+XaFag68TDbK77a 7rbljossfLKt+wnYWNi14ZtBfSqw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpc+H9agU17ylrHI0vYAh47iHPYamxwTO3ccaD/TYWCWQRAyqknO80FVzepzrWhWGgtcUOexeA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:61ca:: with SMTP id q10-v6mr972607wrv.33.1532597988388; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a2-v6sm891047wmb.6.2018.07.26.02.39.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:39:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers In-Reply-To: <eab6139c-ac3e-2ee4-8e7b-bc87789749b1@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:52 -0700") References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> <eab6139c-ac3e-2ee4-8e7b-bc87789749b1@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:39:47 +0200 Message-ID: <m26012gwt8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > Helmut Eller wrote: >>> And prohibit %x on bignums? That would make little sense. >> It would prohibit only negative bignums just like negative flonums are >> forbidden. > > So under this proposal %x would generate ambiguous output once we add > bignums? For example, on a 32-bit platform (format "%x" -1) would > generate the same output as (format "%x" #x3fffffff), even though -1 > and #x3fffffff would be different integers? That doesn't sound like a > good idea. Indeed, had forgotten that case. >>> Common Lisp and Scheme don't have any such prohibition; why should >>> Emacs Lisp? >> >> Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. > > This appears to be more an argument against bignums than anything > else. I've used Emacs Lisp without bignums for many years, and it's > *always* been a hindrance. I would much rather have bignums, as they > would make a lot of things simpler. Well, it's an argument to promote the special role of fixnums. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 09:31:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 05:31:24 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58301 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ficcE-0005DZ-1d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:31:24 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:39508 helo=mx1.suse.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <schwab@HIDDEN>) id 1ficcC-0005DL-8d for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:31:20 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16849AD75; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 09:31:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Yow: Why are these athletic shoe salesmen following me?? Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 11:31:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> (Helmut Eller's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:43:52 +0200") Message-ID: <mvm7elixs0u.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Jul 26 2018, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> wrote: > Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. The lack of bignums requires workarounds like the first two elements of (current-time) or the 11th and 12th element of (file-attributes). Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 09:16:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 05:16:01 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ficNN-0004pB-EU for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:16:01 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:55168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1ficNL-0004ou-VS for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 05:16:00 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81148160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id TUX4WwG5yKtF; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A0A160657; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id K7h9l7_85x6g; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7324A160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <eab6139c-ac3e-2ee4-8e7b-bc87789749b1@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 02:15:52 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Helmut Eller wrote: >> And prohibit %x on bignums? That would make little sense. > It would prohibit only negative bignums just like negative flonums are > forbidden. So under this proposal %x would generate ambiguous output once we add big= nums?=20 For example, on a 32-bit platform (format "%x" -1) would generate the sam= e=20 output as (format "%x" #x3fffffff), even though -1 and #x3fffffff would b= e=20 different integers? That doesn't sound like a good idea. > it would make much more sense to print flonums the way %a does in C It would make sense to add an %a specification, like C's %a. But C's %a f= ormats=20 floating-point numbers, and surely Emacs Lisp's %a should be similar. Tha= t is,=20 %a should treat integers the way the other floating-point specs do (%e, %= f, %g). >> Common Lisp and Scheme don't have any such prohibition; why should >> Emacs Lisp? >=20 > Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. This appears to be more an argument against bignums than anything else. I= 've=20 used Emacs Lisp without bignums for many years, and it's *always* been a=20 hindrance. I would much rather have bignums, as they would make a lot of = things=20 simpler. I agree that Emacs Lisp does not much need complex numbers or ra= tios.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 08:44:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 04:44:00 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fibsO-00043s-Mu for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:44:00 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com ([209.85.221.48]:41726) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fibsN-00043g-L7 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:43:59 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id j5-v6so855222wrr.8 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:43:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=g0doT7jObbI8Aiauf2OpRqV1St1oJq5Bt7EVfhYbrZ4=; b=omfEhe9mokUQxNoN4JyyCIEN51PicaTBaJ4UwFS9cL0f1Hrzqqc5U3XSHnM4VnWrYi XRKyi5Rpa0LSf+htKxghv9XhnxZOSfV2XpuTv7kWlno9U0FHeQPGYXx2/ZWtGMrS/Hhd K9aqRaa9byiTRoLgO4W0FhMT+fqfA7bIyJG0MQHZzxsiVLXC4JQiM4TNS0AuLmRgTJkL 1fCBmpkwn3XIWavQlvji2jyoZpXPu8qjhQZgin85Hw9PCN3/6wxwbCVGTmP/EAY6Y3G1 mrVjtj6nY2oCnTiSxcSC7Vbjqe9/b8uvQ8VvoqLPpjFiLRN1SfjuFAyaL3CQICQPbCBB 2NMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=g0doT7jObbI8Aiauf2OpRqV1St1oJq5Bt7EVfhYbrZ4=; b=gRIw3yFetd18JbTFs/2xtTT5ibmrCgdfCsN4I6cDPkuaUynyUStyHV9EsAImzA17AJ MIavP6mx8muiaP72TRNz+thcWSXrhi18zVRHuDB6QRPOArkmuzKGJ4GJR8A2mRzzVry5 +Qfm+HGdXbDMTwZSCG3I1ron/XhQRWF58GQfWH3GU1qf6zVODjdRuic8miE+BVaCG+hk RZNN4RqlqIDpVcMsb3IPp/HvLWN0kKJ9Ku1WjfKhiqssk6D/a9Tyoaklttz+mCVLdBEf ySfBjhgnjcfOFqYJFVydECO3kXcFK/uidfmwI0AIWiqDpxrk2hTpRdlXPYAKsJq0acep 22wA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGgRlaoz3NDwGUttVWeJjZ6r1Vsw+Z15K5jVu0+YKWB6OafN2FT aVFeXIZRat4wBwHMtfoUTdih2FEo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcIqGsn5LC3xiFA8YOTJDrg5xshK6Sm6LonddmLcSePozpLuHdMNY3LYJU++NgHBNYa2hLJ7A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f091:: with SMTP id n17-v6mr862333wro.49.1532594633751; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e133-v6sm1773296wma.33.2018.07.26.01.43.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:43:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:43:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:56 -0700") Message-ID: <m2effqgzef.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, Jul 26 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > Helmut Eller wrote: > >> What's more interesting: >> (format "%x" (lognot 8)) => "-9" >> or >> (format "%x" (lognot 8)) => "3ffffffffffffff7" >> >> For me, the first version is totally useless. > > Shrug. It's what Common Lisp and Scheme do, and it works pretty well > once you get used to it. It's because I happen to know a thing or two about Common Lisp that I know that I almost always would prefer the way that Emacs Lisp prints negative fixnums. > Programs that need negative integers > displayed modulo some power of 2 can use the mod or logand functions; > that's the mathematically right way to do it anyway, and it's > machine-independent. Do you think I don't know that? It's always possible to write a helper function that does the formatting in the variant that you need. >> Of course there have been proposals: Do your bignum stuff with a >> different format specifier. > > And prohibit %x on bignums? That would make little sense. It would prohibit only negative bignums just like negative flonums are forbidden. Besides I still think that it would make much more sense to print flonums the way %a does in C; another reason for having %a or another format specifier to do the hex conversion in a world with bignums. > Common Lisp and Scheme don't have any such prohibition; why should > Emacs Lisp? Because Emacs Lisp was very successful without bignums. Even more successful than most other Lisps with all their fancy bignums, complex numbers, ratios and other numeric stuff that hardly anyone needs. And the stuff that almost everybody would like to have like, fast unboxed arithmetic, is not offered in a reliable and portable way. >> Here is another proposal: Add a read syntax for unsigned fixnums like >> #x3fffffffffffffffu or alternatively #xu3fffffffffffffff. > > That's heading down the wrong path. Emacs Lisp does not have unsigned > fixnums, so why add a syntax for a data type that does not exist? And > Emacs Lisp should not add such a data type, as it is a low-level > machine concept unsuitable for Lisp, is not needed in Emacs Lisp, and > would cause unnecessary complexity in documentation and > implementation. In my mind Emacs does have negative fixnums and there are various ways to write negative fixnums. Of course a special syntax is not absolutely needed but it may be convenient. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 08:16:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 04:16:11 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fibRT-0003MH-Hq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:16:11 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:52102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fibRR-0003M4-Q6 for 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:16:10 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6647B160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Vdq6ytC7pgqY; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E800160657; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id KVB1CYSJvbQ0; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2DB20160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> <105453de-7910-f300-15d0-61e8dcae180a@HIDDEN> <m2lg9yh183.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m2lg9yh183.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8CE09634EBCA8E13C57EF9CC" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252-done Cc: 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8CE09634EBCA8E13C57EF9CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Helmut Eller wrote: > So you actually changed the default behavior even if you said you > wouldn't? That was not my intent. Sorry, I messed up the default settings in a last= -minute=20 change. Thanks for catching that so quickly. I installed the attached to = fix it. --------------8CE09634EBCA8E13C57EF9CC Content-Type: text/x-patch; name="0001-src-editfns.c-syms_of_editfns-Fix-typo-in-previous-c.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-src-editfns.c-syms_of_editfns-Fix-typo-in-previous-c.pa"; filename*1="tch" =46rom e4d6ebee213e2d6f37de839c09c05ab0a5346ce3 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:14:31 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] * src/editfns.c (syms_of_editfns): Fix typo in previous change. --- src/editfns.c | 4 ++-- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/src/editfns.c b/src/editfns.c index df25721..522cb5d 100644 --- a/src/editfns.c +++ b/src/editfns.c @@ -5586,9 +5586,9 @@ This variable is experimental; email 32252@debbugs.= gnu.org if you need it to be non-nil. */); /* For now, default to true if bignums exist, false in traditional Ema= cs. */ #ifdef lisp_h_FIXNUMP - binary_as_unsigned =3D true; -#else binary_as_unsigned =3D false; +#else + binary_as_unsigned =3D true; #endif =20 defsubr (&Spropertize); --=20 2.7.4 --------------8CE09634EBCA8E13C57EF9CC--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 08:04:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 04:04:41 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fibGJ-000362-Fm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:04:41 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:42593) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fibGG-00035o-9O for 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:04:37 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id e7-v6so734637wrs.9 for <32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:04:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=8opU64J75MI8ZtquNQUGSgSbrIJkQeGoRlAn80YY5QU=; b=s6YAXXkFFETRZw800mgUjCqQUzIdxs/gZfQjTtr55PBUJhqEv8ZrvlKhslrWC9RNDy 6T4s1T8HByuF/9EA2PeiY4ESI1xh0b1v2XmmNAr2Q2erszsHSuoDu/YALwcFzf0iWEKi jny+8ftT6uNC+kELhLOZ/VQvKuh6dmpM9BREfUSfdxQYzKZtR/Ade/wASxt11qsZvluG HWMlUN2M1a3YVzwNL0jZbLFLUJxfYKKZ9DtmSGOoIgj1SXDWEtH31Xmf90R29wRV4t02 TginPFN3iwa2MBZBxpGbwpWVOfdGugr0+qGOEXkYOwZGPkWfDiyNlEpL1PvvXozrFz8o 9tYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=8opU64J75MI8ZtquNQUGSgSbrIJkQeGoRlAn80YY5QU=; b=hU0MmaPP+d9fV7lodQRdIrFzjX1Mr9ph494aWVdkR2ZH4OmNreWqB6ZOaYklTV7lHy fw56iRhQ5mQNmA7FxMxl3JAiq8s1PQhx1kje71Dw1IdOaer7xS2bwcVqrSl7kAFzfbc8 v6SWKsjwFnEtkPuHnORng4LWz+2WugWeYiawPJfbAaxJG4MQ47qRcSzkOseC4xfNh+pf 3UwAc0QzdRrCU4ukBK7iInCuuPX+TsqMzCdEAHMEbj7tESM/3mh5ACH0inIhTh3OWdhw 0TIm241HcsJE8sDRO15pdXVOLr9VF8B0UPZQjN8pXXmOsnpTkmyoVLkuPd6s2CQY4+dd N2lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHpD8bGzDvAvbF3CgYQ0baoy8VojjZpqiqp8zZKiqsK6HzmOGK8 CT/oUe0Gdt/5ryHbrMTzMunRcIXK X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfMSXGB2zsOPYcsHwad9IidTXZXaCSsQY6jkNffK9nnOSH7J8kRXldXPU1l1tgyLkktcgX4TA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6892:: with SMTP id h18-v6mr720825wru.108.1532592270428; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u71-v6sm1051604wmd.12.2018.07.26.01.04.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:04:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> <105453de-7910-f300-15d0-61e8dcae180a@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 10:04:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <105453de-7910-f300-15d0-61e8dcae180a@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:34 -0700") Message-ID: <m2lg9yh183.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252-done Cc: 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > OK, I installed the attached patch which does that, and am closing the > bug report. I plan to run with binary-as-unsigned set to nil and to > report any problems I encounter. I encourage others (particularly > skeptics :-) to do the same. So you actually changed the default behavior even if you said you wouldn't? Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 08:00:07 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 04:00:07 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58138 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fibBu-0002z0-PL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:00:07 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50840) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fibBt-0002xy-1P for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 04:00:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497F6160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id asUUu5yh65yA; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC55160657; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id R52J0RHloz_0; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65923160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <1c3c61c4-f93f-3bea-f6ed-b89e1cdea89b@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:59:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <m21sbr3ipa.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Helmut Eller wrote: > What's more interesting: > (format "%x" (lognot 8)) =3D> "-9" > or > (format "%x" (lognot 8)) =3D> "3ffffffffffffff7" >=20 > For me, the first version is totally useless. Shrug. It's what Common Lisp and Scheme do, and it works pretty well once= you=20 get used to it. Programs that need negative integers displayed modulo som= e power=20 of 2 can use the mod or logand functions; that's the mathematically right= way to=20 do it anyway, and it's machine-independent. > Of course there have been proposals: Do your bignum stuff with a > different format specifier. And prohibit %x on bignums? That would make little sense. Common Lisp and= Scheme=20 don't have any such prohibition; why should Emacs Lisp? Again, programs t= hat=20 need just the low-order bits of a negative integer can use 'mod' or a mas= k. > Here is another proposal: Add a read syntax for unsigned fixnums like > #x3fffffffffffffffu or alternatively #xu3fffffffffffffff. That's heading down the wrong path. Emacs Lisp does not have unsigned fix= nums,=20 so why add a syntax for a data type that does not exist? And Emacs Lisp s= hould=20 not add such a data type, as it is a low-level machine concept unsuitable= for=20 Lisp, is not needed in Emacs Lisp, and would cause unnecessary complexity= in=20 documentation and implementation.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 07:44:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 03:44:46 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiax3-0002bv-LB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 03:44:46 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:49994) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fiax0-0002bh-SY for 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 03:44:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E69160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id vkyfChg6-zCX; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CE6160657; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id oW4CpKnrxA-D; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 13CD1160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <105453de-7910-f300-15d0-61e8dcae180a@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:44:34 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------01904002BC0D2AE32D7447F3" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252-done Cc: 32252-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------01904002BC0D2AE32D7447F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: eller.helmut@HIDDEN, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> >> >> That being said, it appears that there are enough qualms about the >> change that I plan to install it with the new variable set the other >> way. I.e., the default will be the current behavior and people can set >> the new variable to get the new behavior, to try it this behavior out to >> see whether they have problems. > > Thank you. OK, I installed the attached patch which does that, and am closing the bug report. I plan to run with binary-as-unsigned set to nil and to report any problems I encounter. I encourage others (particularly skeptics :-) to do the same. --------------01904002BC0D2AE32D7447F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-o-and-x-can-now-format-signed-integers.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-o-and-x-can-now-format-signed-integers.txt" RnJvbSA0YTU2Y2E1YmJmYWJiYjljNTgxODI4Y2Q5MTY0ODM0NmU2YjAzODQ0IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIDI2IEp1bCAyMDE4IDAwOjM0OjEwIC0wNzAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gJW8gYW5kICV4IGNhbiBub3cgZm9ybWF0IHNpZ25lZCBpbnRlZ2VycwpNSU1FLVZlcnNp b246IDEuMApDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IHRleHQvcGxhaW47IGNoYXJzZXQ9VVRGLTgKQ29udGVu dC1UcmFuc2Zlci1FbmNvZGluZzogOGJpdAoKT3B0aW9uYWxseSB0cmVhdCBpbnRlZ2VycyBh cyBzaWduZWQgbnVtYmVycyB3aXRoICVvCmFuZCAleCBmb3JtYXQgc3BlY2lmaWVycywgaW5z dGVhZCBvZiB0cmVhdGluZyB0aGVtIGFzCmEgbWFjaGluZS1kZXBlbmRlbnQgdHdv4oCZcyBj b21wbGVtZW50IHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uLgpUaGlzIG9wdGlvbiBpcyBtb3JlIG1hY2hpbmUt 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Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>:Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>:Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jul 2018 07:26:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 26 03:26:57 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58094 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiafo-0002BQ-Q1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 03:26:57 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:49226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fiafm-0002B9-Ih for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 03:26:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8C3160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id CFvTnJY5CZ-5; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93583160657; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id bzYFAQQlniFV; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 312DD160656; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Brett Gilio <brettg@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> <877eli28mp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <802d13fa-83a4-fccd-510d-617965509313@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 00:26:43 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <877eli28mp.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Brett Gilio wrote: > I wonder what you mean by "just > works" in contrast to what Eli suggested about the inconsistency in > behavior between the different function definitions for fixnums and > bignums. I meant that ordinarily Emacs Lisp programmers should not worry whether a= n=20 integer's internal representation is a bignum or a fixnum. Functions like= +, -,=20 *, /, format, read, etc. should accept and generate mathematically corre= ct=20 integer values regardless of whether their inputs are fixnums or bignums.= If an=20 integer fits in a fixnum it is presumably represented that way, but by an= d large=20 Emacs programs should not care about this detail. That is how other Lisps do it, it works well for them, and Emacs Lisp sho= uld do=20 likewise.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 23:47:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 19:47:28 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiTV7-000642-D1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:47:28 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:49107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <brettg@HIDDEN>) id 1fiTID-0005ji-Pt for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:34:06 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9181C211E2 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:33:59 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1532561639; bh=eZ+lej1GXXYo1D+AXjriTS83w2yJ2PiLX355JCKcB+Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=VWa2lmSIf5jfvdmMWXv4XpbyqF9+lTIsE4SytTGjJaKHhNJ1DXFFT3KTTJn+VwePM E/jwREiTVrCtxKne+ATNRPE6U4yv43zkcUswsfg7c1x4bTUtZ/kN19l+8VrGcDMfZE pwk+pwPv8iocZAP9izvHDORSl7SXe5V5xh3fFpbTNmRpm2hJGlZgagJR4H+BY8Dp+T AR7qmCGargfEZjWt1Ez/WK+S2KYUXZyBfC3OuyQK5PgkVgDCf4mnjmOd537+sgJ9ru 9UM9ShrbfEhBS6n2pGBdVEJcXTHQnh8wCeln9qTdTSEZwG+jRyQNXn1FCW5rvlADaw bFRInHZ89SgxQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 41bWl96czkz9rxD; Thu, 26 Jul 2018 01:33:57 +0200 (CEST) References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 27.0.50 From: Brett Gilio <brettg@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers In-reply-to: <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:33:34 -0500 Message-ID: <877eli28mp.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:47:24 -0400 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert writes: > I don't know what inconsistent behavior would make sense here. > There's a > longstanding tradition in Lisp that integer arithmetic just > works, and I don't > see why Emacs would want to fight against that tradition here. > Although there > may be some low-level functions that distinguish between fixnums > and bignums for > efficiency reasons, the vast majority of Lisp functions should > not distinguish > them, and 'format' should be one of those functions. >> Maybe we should merge the branch first, let the dust settle and >> let >> people use the new functionality, then revisit this stuff with >> more >> experience on our hands. Paul, I agree with you here. However, I wonder what you mean by "just works" in contrast to what Eli suggested about the inconsistency in behavior between the different function definitions for fixnums and bignums. How would that be working against the lisp tradition? -- Brett M. Gilio Free Software Foundation, Member https://parabola.nu | https://emacs.org
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 21:56:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 17:56:23 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57787 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiRle-0003Db-Ns for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:56:22 -0400 Received: from aserp2130.oracle.com ([141.146.126.79]:51820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1fiRld-0003DO-GL for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:56:22 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6PLncdu100067; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:56:07 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=//4lQiVAkznYreqbtknz9DjnFRSiDabbS8ZTrI7hePU=; b=04m3uCekEx1FviqSRxCpSsl2BmYkvf4Ocdov0xeEvDm/ze69Zls14gpLNtd/yLtbwR/i Ojl/dRGS/8LxCCGCx/hHEgygKt46+JyYk26qZPAN9ELiYQIHt4iUWSGRpJ9joixwec1W C+LD+P+E5L/9Xll62sCx9Vs8waWBGHCdNCn8YOw9PpIKeHCGQZFZiD6Slidzvr1+xhGL dwMWeXMjGFsfNeRqhjy3XX99ecumd914NQbtn7PW6pGGiSKdfyqXLLXjTVpBEpDbWTNF H11DO0HNKwgbTr6mK13pgnmxZZJipUFtiiyKT9U5BDksZPFMUa+YcUjc219bGEfKrH7N rA== Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kbtbcygsf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:56:07 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6PLu6u8013187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:56:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6PLu5Mq028111; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 21:56:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3f7fb7dd-c008-41d5-8090-5c2213652790@default> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: RE: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <6f7e8bae-7bf1-4a91-80d8-fef255ab74f7@default> <E1fiAre-0008JK-85@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <E1fiAre-0008JK-85@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8965 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=971 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807250226 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > > Although it is indeed an incompatible change, I surveyed the existi= ng > > > Emacs source code and couldn't find anything that the change would > > > break. >=20 > > Inadequate. Never wholly irrelevant, but certainly not > > sufficient. You surveyed something mostly irrelevant. >=20 > How about saying "incomplete"? It states the valid point but is far less= harsh. Incomplete, of course; thank you. But also inadequate, IMO - or insufficient, if you prefer - perhaps that is= less harsh than inadequate. The intention was not to be harsh but to say that, while it is good to chec= k the sources distributed with Emacs, it is not good enough. "Incomplete" tells part of the story, but it doesn't imply that there is a = problem. (Unless there is agreement on a completeness requirement - I wasn= 't assuming such agreement.) Saying it's not sufficient to just check the Emacs sources says both that d= oing so is incomplete _and_ that such an incomplete search is not enough. But you're no doubt right that there is likely more agreement that such a s= earch is incomplete than there is that it's also not enough.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 20:16:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 16:16:38 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiQD8-0000s6-Gr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:16:38 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46174) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fiQD5-0000rs-Rz for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 16:16:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4977160CF7; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cD5XGslS-lor; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E25316161C; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id Y4Tl844HX6bW; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BF72A160CF7; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> <mvm8t5zzqhh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <9861c5ca-83d0-6fba-d58e-050a63369af5@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:16:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <mvm8t5zzqhh.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Andreas Schwab wrote: >> It's more about (read (printf "#x%x" N)) returning N, which is basic >> functionality that should work > Where is that documented? You're right, it's not. It's not even documented that (read (printf "%s" N)) should work for any number N. I'll add something along these lines. I'll also warn that (read (printf "#x%x" N)) might not work.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 17:28:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 13:28:22 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiNaI-0005HL-2D for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:28:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiNaG-0005H9-ET for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:28:20 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiNa8-0004j5-A8 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:28:15 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33700) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiNa8-0004ig-52; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:28:12 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3439 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiNa7-0001mN-LC; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:28:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 20:28:08 +0300 Message-Id: <83sh47tec7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> (message from Paul Eggert on Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:43 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: eller.helmut@HIDDEN, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:43 -0700 > > That being said, it appears that there are enough qualms about the > change that I plan to install it with the new variable set the other > way. I.e., the default will be the current behavior and people can set > the new variable to get the new behavior, to try it this behavior out to > see whether they have problems. Thank you.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 17:21:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 13:21:56 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiNU3-000565-PA for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:21:55 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fiNU1-00055p-OX for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:21:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81E3161145; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id nAuOPm0qbpaV; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA52316116C; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id TFQJBRUI68ix; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABDE4161145; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <140b0602-777a-9b06-3d58-4381693f3a00@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:21:43 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 07/24/2018 07:41 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > As for counting the number of 'f's, how is that different from > counting leading zeros? The 'f's contribute to the value, the leading zeros do not.=C2=A0 For=20 example, in Emacs 26 #x3fffffffffffffff is 2**62 (since it is rounded to=20 a floating point number) whereas the visually-similar number=20 #x3ffffffffffffff is (2**58 - 1). Although the rounding error should go=20 away once we have bignums, the notational problems will become worse if=20 %x and %o continue to print in a machine-dependent way. That being said, it appears that there are enough qualms about the=20 change that I plan to install it with the new variable set the other=20 way. I.e., the default will be the current behavior and people can set=20 the new variable to get the new behavior, to try it this behavior out to=20 see whether they have problems.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 14:17:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 10:17:27 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57296 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiKbX-0006q9-6U for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:54190) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiKbU-0006pt-LG for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:25 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiKbM-0006hx-Ap for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:58064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiKbM-0006hb-5Z; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:16 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3205 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiKbL-0006Y3-Gl; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:17:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 17:17:26 +0300 Message-Id: <83d0vbv1qh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> (message from Paul Eggert on Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:57 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:57 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Do we really need to have identical or consistent behavior for fixnums > > and bignums? They are different beasts, so the behavior could be > > different, provided that it makes sense for each of the varieties. > > I don't know what inconsistent behavior would make sense here. There's a > longstanding tradition in Lisp that integer arithmetic just works, and I don't > see why Emacs would want to fight against that tradition here. Although there > may be some low-level functions that distinguish between fixnums and bignums for > efficiency reasons, the vast majority of Lisp functions should not distinguish > them, and 'format' should be one of those functions. I agree that this would be nice to have, but I'm not sure we should absolutely require that, at least not yet. Not before we have enough experience to be sure we have good reasons for changing long-standing behavior. > Although I understand the concern about the patch, the concern doesn't seem to > be warranted, and any compatibility issues can easily be addressed by setting > binary-as-signed. Well, we've seen such movies in the past, and we know we've been wrong in at least some cases.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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On Tue 24 Jul 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> Do we really need to have identical or consistent behavior for fixnums
>> and bignums? They are different beasts, so the behavior could be
>> different, provided that it makes sense for each of the varieties.
>
> I don't know what inconsistent behavior would make sense here. There's a
> longstanding tradition in Lisp that integer arithmetic just works, and I don't
> see why Emacs would want to fight against that tradition here. Although there
> may be some low-level functions that distinguish between fixnums and bignums
> for efficiency reasons, the vast majority of Lisp functions should not
> distinguish them, and 'format' should be one of those functions.
>> Maybe we should merge the branch first, let the dust settle and let
>> people use the new functionality, then revisit this stuff with more
>> experience on our hands.
>
> This particular patch is not primarily about bignums. It's more about (read
> (printf "#x%x" N)) returning N, which is basic functionality that should work
> even if we never add bignums. The fact that the patch also will make bignums
> easier is just icing on the cake.
It makes things more consistent at a cost of incomatibility with long
standing behaviour, and of making (format "%x") output useless for
humans to read. That is far too high a price for consistency.
> Although I understand the concern about the patch, the concern doesn't seem to
> be warranted, and any compatibility issues can easily be addressed by setting
> binary-as-signed.
No. The default value for this option should preserve backward
compatible behaviour.
AndyM
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 08:09:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 04:09:22 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56092 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiErK-0003Gz-FH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 04:09:22 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:51434 helo=mx1.suse.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <schwab@HIDDEN>) id 1fiErI-0003Gk-Un for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 04:09:21 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay1.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77A3AEE8; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:09:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> X-Yow: How many retired bricklayers from FLORIDA are out purchasing PENCIL SHARPENERS right NOW?? Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:09:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:57 -0700") Message-ID: <mvm8t5zzqhh.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Jul 24 2018, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: > It's more about (read (printf "#x%x" N)) returning N, which is basic > functionality that should work Where is that documented? Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:58:25 +0200
In-Reply-To: <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's
message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:50:46 -0700")
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On Tue, Jul 24 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Helmut Eller wrote:
>
>> In practice, printf ("%x", (int)N) prints the bits in N as unsigned
>> integer not as signed integer.
>
> That's two operations not one, and even there the results disagree
> with what (format "%x" N) does. On every Emacs platform I've ever used
> the C output begins with a different hex digit than the Emacs Lisp
> output. Emacs has never done %x just like that unportable C code, and
> likely will never do so.
Nobody is arguing for printing the tag-bits. And what Emacs has done is
fairly obvious to everybody.
>> #x-1 maybe interesting to the read function but it's not interesting to
>> humans. Humans want to see #x3fffffffffffffff.
>
> I doubt very much that most humans really want to see an error-prone
> notation like that (can you easily spot the difference between it and
> #x3ffffffffffffffff? I can't). And even if some humans did want it,
> they won't get it on 32-bit Emacs. This whole idea is a bad approach
> for Emacs.
What's more interesting:
(format "%x" (lognot 8)) => "-9"
or
(format "%x" (lognot 8)) => "3ffffffffffffff7"
For me, the first version is totally useless.
> What I expect most users would prefer is an approach where 'read' and
> 'format' are inverses, e.g., (read (printf "#x%x" N)) returns N for
> every integer N. Emacs doesn't do that now, and the proposed patch
> fixes things so that it does.
The inverse of read is print, not format or printf.
> No other approach has been proposed that
> would make much sense (that is, be portable, be easily extendible to
> bignums, that sort of thing).
Of course there have been proposals: Do your bignum stuff with a
different format specifier.
Here is another proposal: Add a read syntax for unsigned fixnums like
#x3fffffffffffffffu or alternatively #xu3fffffffffffffff.
>> you should have no problem with introducing an
>> new specifier for this.
>
> I'd rather not, as the hex stuff has never worked right in Emacs and
> we shouldn't be codifying old bugs.
It was already codified in the documentation, even the much more dubios
flonum case. It's really annoying when documented behavior changes.
Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 04:36:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 25 00:36:19 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiBX9-0006R1-Fw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:36:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:33652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiBX8-0006Qm-6R for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:36:18 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fiBWz-0006Xd-Si for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:36:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:44409) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi9k0-0004F5-Fw; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 22:41:31 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4439 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi9jz-0001uy-I2; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 22:41:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 05:41:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83effsujdp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> (message from Paul Eggert on Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:50:46 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> <m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN> <6f720005-b5e4-5d1c-b4e8-a8992c7635c4@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:50:46 -0700 > Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > #x-1 maybe interesting to the read function but it's not interesting to > > humans. Humans want to see #x3fffffffffffffff. > > I doubt very much that most humans really want to see an error-prone notation > like that (can you easily spot the difference between it and > #x3ffffffffffffffff? I can't). I don't know if "most" is accurate, but I'm definitely in that camp. As for counting the number of 'f's, how is that different from counting leading zeros? > And even if some humans did want it, they won't get it on 32-bit > Emacs. I don't see any problem: the user always knows in what Emacs she is running. > This whole idea is a bad approach for Emacs. This bad approach was with us since about forever. It is a de-facto correct behavior by now
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jul 2018 03:53:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 23:53:51 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fiAs3-0005P3-22 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53753) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fiAs0-0005Oo-Nw for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fiArs-00050F-Kt for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45014) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fiAre-0004v9-MD; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:26 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fiAre-0008JK-85; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:26 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <6f7e8bae-7bf1-4a91-80d8-fef255ab74f7@default> (message from Drew Adams on Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:16:52 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <6f7e8bae-7bf1-4a91-80d8-fef255ab74f7@default> Message-Id: <E1fiAre-0008JK-85@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:26 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN, eller.helmut@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Although it is indeed an incompatible change, I surveyed the existing > > Emacs source code and couldn't find anything that the change would > > break. > Inadequate. Never wholly irrelevant, but certainly not > sufficient. You surveyed something mostly irrelevant. How about saying "incomplete"? It states the valid point but is far less harsh. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id BmvXOW47wrYo; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49C4416077A; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <88033810-6f82-8fab-e64e-7ae948b723e7@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:54:57 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Do we really need to have identical or consistent behavior for fixnums > and bignums? They are different beasts, so the behavior could be > different, provided that it makes sense for each of the varieties. I don't know what inconsistent behavior would make sense here. There's a=20 longstanding tradition in Lisp that integer arithmetic just works, and I = don't=20 see why Emacs would want to fight against that tradition here. Although t= here=20 may be some low-level functions that distinguish between fixnums and bign= ums for=20 efficiency reasons, the vast majority of Lisp functions should not distin= guish=20 them, and 'format' should be one of those functions. > Maybe we should merge the branch first, let the dust settle and let > people use the new functionality, then revisit this stuff with more > experience on our hands. This particular patch is not primarily about bignums. It's more about (re= ad=20 (printf "#x%x" N)) returning N, which is basic functionality that should = work=20 even if we never add bignums. The fact that the patch also will make bign= ums=20 easier is just icing on the cake. Although I understand the concern about the patch, the concern doesn't se= em to=20 be warranted, and any compatibility issues can easily be addressed by set= ting=20 binary-as-signed.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>
References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN>
<m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN>
<m2in54xzxe.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
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Helmut Eller wrote:
> In practice, printf ("%x", (int)N) prints the bits in N as unsigned
> integer not as signed integer.
That's two operations not one, and even there the results disagree with w=
hat=20
(format "%x" N) does. On every Emacs platform I've ever used the C output=
begins=20
with a different hex digit than the Emacs Lisp output. Emacs has never do=
ne %x=20
just like that unportable C code, and likely will never do so.
> #x-1 maybe interesting to the read function but it's not interesting to
> humans. Humans want to see #x3fffffffffffffff.
I doubt very much that most humans really want to see an error-prone nota=
tion=20
like that (can you easily spot the difference between it and=20
#x3ffffffffffffffff? I can't). And even if some humans did want it, they =
won't=20
get it on 32-bit Emacs. This whole idea is a bad approach for Emacs.
What I expect most users would prefer is an approach where 'read' and 'fo=
rmat'=20
are inverses, e.g., (read (printf "#x%x" N)) returns N for every integer =
N.=20
Emacs doesn't do that now, and the proposed patch fixes things so that it=
does.=20
No other approach has been proposed that would make much sense (that is, =
be=20
portable, be easily extendible to bignums, that sort of thing).
> you should have no problem with introducing an
> new specifier for this.
I'd rather not, as the hex stuff has never worked right in Emacs and we=20
shouldn't be codifying old bugs.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 18:27:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 14:27:47 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fi22F-00050u-Ba for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:27:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50007) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi22E-00050i-9P for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:27:46 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi225-0004WE-Gt for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:27:40 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38283) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi225-0004W1-D9; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:27:37 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1927 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fi224-0003VZ-PT; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:27:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:27:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83o9ewv68u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Helmut Eller on Tue, 24 Jul 2018 06:49:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 06:49:34 +0200 > Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On Mon, Jul 23 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > > > %a has quite a different meaning in C11, so we'd need to use some > > With your change %x will also have quite a different meaning in C11. > > > other letter (or set of letters, if we want something for %x, %X, %o) > > if we went that route. This seems like overkill for such a small > > change to functionality that hardly ever matters; plus, %x, %X and %o > > would continue to have problematic machine-dependent semantics and > > would not be sensibly extensible to bignums. > > If it doesn't matter to you then why make the change/break at all? You > could just create a function bignum-to-hex-string. Do we really need to have identical or consistent behavior for fixnums and bignums? They are different beasts, so the behavior could be different, provided that it makes sense for each of the varieties. More generally, given the controversy, maybe we should collect some real-life experience before we start making incompatible behavior changes? I mean, the bignum branch is not even merged yet, and we are already changing the behavior with fixnums in incompatible ways. Maybe we should merge the branch first, let the dust settle and let people use the new functionality, then revisit this stuff with more experience on our hands.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN>
<m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN>
<7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:15:57 +0200
In-Reply-To: <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's
message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:22:52 -0700")
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On Tue, Jul 24 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
>> With your change %x will also have quite a different meaning in C11.
>
> Not really, as Emacs (format "%x" N) agrees with C11 printf ("%x", N)
> in all values of N that are valid in both languages. In C11, negative
> values are not valid, as printf ("%x", N) has undefined behavior when
> N is negative. So we are discussing an area where Emacs Lisp can
> define behavior without introducing incompatibilities with C11.
In practice, printf ("%x", (int)N) prints the bits in N as unsigned
integer not as signed integer.
> If we changed (format "%x" -1) to signal an error instead, that would
> also be upward-compatible with C11. However, it's more useful for
> something like (format "#x%x" -1) to output a string that can 'read'
> can scan to get -1, something that's not true of Emacs now.
#x-1 maybe interesting to the read function but it's not interesting to
humans. Humans want to see #x3fffffffffffffff.
>>> This seems like overkill for such a small
>>> change to functionality that hardly ever matters; plus, %x, %X and %o
>>> would continue to have problematic machine-dependent semantics and
>>> would not be sensibly extensible to bignums.
>>
>> If it doesn't matter to you then why make the change/break at all?
>
> It does matter to me, actually.
If it matters to you then you should have no problem with introducing an
new specifier for this.
> I think Emacs should have sensible behavior even in corner cases that
> hardly ever arise in real programs.
That %x prints the two's complement representation for negative fixnums
is fairly sensible behavior. Emacs should not change such basic things
or for that matter start to print =E2=80=99 instead of '. Such changes wou=
ld be
the opposite of sensible.
Helmut
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On Tue 24 Jul 2018, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Helmut Eller wrote:
>> With your change %x will also have quite a different meaning in C11.
>
> Not really, as Emacs (format "%x" N) agrees with C11 printf ("%x", N) in all
> values of N that are valid in both languages. In C11, negative values are not
> valid, as printf ("%x", N) has undefined behavior when N is negative. So we
> are discussing an area where Emacs Lisp can define behavior without
> introducing incompatibilities with C11.
As emacs fixnums are signed, and the C printf conversion specifier "%x"
takes an unsigned int argument, there are expected to be differences in
behaviour.
However what matters in C (and in elisp) is not what the spec says, but
what the codebase of existing users does, and what existing library
implementations do.
When printing values with base!=10, it is always the underlying
representation (i.e. bit pattern) that is of interest, not the value
interpreted as a signed number. Long standing practice in many languages
shows values printed in hex, octal and binary as unsigned.
> If we changed (format "%x" -1) to signal an error instead, that would also be
> upward-compatible with C11. However, it's more useful for something like
> (format "#x%x" -1) to output a string that can 'read' can scan to get -1,
> something that's not true of Emacs now.
I agree that there is a problem, but not with your solution.
I think it would be better to change the reader to treat non-base10
values as if they were unsigned representations, so that `format' is
unchanged, and (read (format "#x%x" -1)) evaluates to -1.
That is consistent wth other languages and user expectation.
> It does matter to me, actually. I think Emacs should have sensible behavior
> even in corner cases that hardly ever arise in real programs.
I agree: a consistent model of behaviour is important, even if it may
take a while to fix buggy behaviour that disagrees with the model.
AndyM
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 14:35:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 10:35:22 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55677 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhyPK-0007tR-1Q for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:35:22 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:54232 helo=mx1.suse.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <schwab@HIDDEN>) id 1fhyPH-0007tF-Sv for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:35:20 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BDFAD90; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:35:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> X-Yow: WHO sees a BEACH BUNNY sobbing on a SHAG RUG?! Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:35:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7e8dd084-7ab9-c2ce-1d6c-e673fa998f11@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Tue, 24 Jul 2018 07:22:52 -0700") Message-ID: <mvmd0vc1z32.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Jul 24 2018, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: > If we changed (format "%x" -1) to signal an error instead, that would also > be upward-compatible with C11. Unlike printf, format can convert arguments as needed, so an error is wrong here. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 14:29:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 10:29:36 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhyJk-0007jE-B7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:29:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhyJi-0007j4-Qb for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:29:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhyJa-0001bC-8T for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:29:29 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhyJa-0001b8-4z; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:29:26 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3047 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhyJZ-0004tM-JL; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:29:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 17:29:33 +0300 Message-Id: <83y3e0vh9u.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <2c5f72ef-afa8-d2b3-6e71-0eef148db78c@HIDDEN> (message from Paul Eggert on Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:33 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> <83zhyhuzn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <2c5f72ef-afa8-d2b3-6e71-0eef148db78c@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > Cc: drew.adams@HIDDEN, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:33 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Please don't put bug numbers in NEWS. If some bug is important for > > NEWS (I doubt that it ever could be), describe it instead. > > Sorry, I didn't know that. Should I remove the existing bug numbers in NEWS? Yes, please, but if the details were left off the rest of the text because the bug reference was supposed to serve instead, please now add some minimal details to make the entry speak for itself. (I can do this myself, if you prefer that.) Thanks. P.S. I never said anything to this effect until now because I didn't realize bug numbers are being added to NEWS in the absence of any guidance to the contrary.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>
References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN>
<m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
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Helmut Eller wrote:
> With your change %x will also have quite a different meaning in C11.
Not really, as Emacs (format "%x" N) agrees with C11 printf ("%x", N) in =
all=20
values of N that are valid in both languages. In C11, negative values are=
not=20
valid, as printf ("%x", N) has undefined behavior when N is negative. So =
we are=20
discussing an area where Emacs Lisp can define behavior without introduci=
ng=20
incompatibilities with C11.
If we changed (format "%x" -1) to signal an error instead, that would als=
o be=20
upward-compatible with C11. However, it's more useful for something like =
(format=20
"#x%x" -1) to output a string that can 'read' can scan to get -1, somethi=
ng=20
that's not true of Emacs now.
>> This seems like overkill for such a small
>> change to functionality that hardly ever matters; plus, %x, %X and %o
>> would continue to have problematic machine-dependent semantics and
>> would not be sensibly extensible to bignums.
>=20
> If it doesn't matter to you then why make the change/break at all?
It does matter to me, actually. I think Emacs should have sensible behavi=
or even=20
in corner cases that hardly ever arise in real programs.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 04:49:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 00:49:43 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54530 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhpGZ-0004D3-J0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:49:43 -0400 Received: from mail-wm0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:38521) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eller.helmut@HIDDEN>) id 1fhpGX-0004Cp-WC for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:49:42 -0400 Received: by mail-wm0-f49.google.com with SMTP id t25-v6so1107931wmi.3 for <32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:49:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=A7BUK82Slk33yNnspiOfBkqLakvPaNXEb8El48B0TLQ=; b=fXMVXLdr354tEpo2lrzLhsNPuo4ujeq61/K5VUMJBdQxlaZkl2EePZ6ybE4v5hITPf B/QNTeXbx3pvmhByHMmYQeg46pk0j/SF7mZPefU4egTGVzikb1YsKWheyQohLQ2OZrn/ mbSAcF/dw2TCuMqSbYJbRF3D1IE2jjyNQp8DB1n1FUjO3zNL/r308mYRQlIlPbsIyGck 4c4UAwaUl0+I+/6s6w2BPdAiSpjfX4xmXQtwvFR9bGjYIGXJ4pFCYC3tVpcSJH0D0yj5 NKc/GWiapDlu3j+l1GsrMscwCP9vRkg9O3hKESkYMWij5ssiE+8RKRNCftLB9QJnTfel Mwvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=A7BUK82Slk33yNnspiOfBkqLakvPaNXEb8El48B0TLQ=; b=auuwMipqEpLuwJJUbjTH0dW3FbfoCGVco5R7GPszUuzlCgdR/23r/DSO+c8MSZLPOd lfVv4hck8XVAYJ5XqcFX+zLKLkdtgeFzhhZa7buaf1Dg6ozGjwF0MJT+ORaEHyZRS/Y/ voPKcpXizFXfaUcHhKmYX9Ca5BKWgzl2aQNRQ0AGVnc/j1pF/+W8fAPkvho+eApKZHHU lT+LEP5PWVkBy9ZzSoSFDP35nVDUlu619T01IvMeJaKLRSMdrFZ1LgmKB/CwDnekpUG+ qd6ONLjsu9QRq5VJE0TqsSaang0Ty0uoEob6KtRa4mcoHMDkOlvy8fW4oktTFDyLtsDY 7OSA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFRhII1aBaEVbrfOcYEZ0/m/ILX6OfxEw77pEU9Zqn5bQVDH6ya 4sFiAqlHN2viTnK9PATljQ93j+jx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfRH2RAEGb4f82uB4Oi32xRl6V2sP0nthlSU7vV7/cZfZWxdzCGc/3GpS/yq78AO+3mADSh+A== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5f82:: with SMTP id t124-v6mr928953wmb.14.1532407776043; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caladan ([37.186.181.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5-v6sm12866740wrp.87.2018.07.23.21.49.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 06:49:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:08 -0700") Message-ID: <m2zhyhxmox.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Mon, Jul 23 2018, Paul Eggert wrote: > %a has quite a different meaning in C11, so we'd need to use some With your change %x will also have quite a different meaning in C11. > other letter (or set of letters, if we want something for %x, %X, %o) > if we went that route. This seems like overkill for such a small > change to functionality that hardly ever matters; plus, %x, %X and %o > would continue to have problematic machine-dependent semantics and > would not be sensibly extensible to bignums. If it doesn't matter to you then why make the change/break at all? You could just create a function bignum-to-hex-string. Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 04:16:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 24 00:16:09 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54525 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhok4-0003SD-Sg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:16:09 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:52956) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1fhok2-0003RT-4Q for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 00:16:06 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6O4DcZK187067; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:15:59 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=mKOZp39S1d/TYsVpHI8eXT6ELWKY9jghDxquYWSp/1A=; b=RC0mLVhJSB3sP/kLUzx0qvt4sI6odgng9789BKnfyQVPZI97D5rWWBcSaiLzTrGd204M uIpt6KtII8koMdT76ARSmQAL+aSnITWAItOe38Jjv7jrFuayDrlVIn0dMrjV8mkBbDXY o/scnviOEfba3YGlSnhhgGe7h56gA/UsoiWeS5J6doqNfJ3wrmA+haPfTPZGNrZrrf/4 au2DhnrvXeWPX4zK5OjlMPFRiAe+66LEQZc7cvStORkrchl3WY0sH+Bwhdu6SHrD5gsK LDyEv2QZZDRO8vKOXQs3/fOFfbKtHYZ5Dps1cxeDUYY/Z+dOS7bqmwO7I5Sh4KqYby/D MQ== Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kbwfpq2ue-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:15:59 +0000 Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6O4FwaE031864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:15:58 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w6O4Fv6M016155; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 04:15:58 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3743943d-5104-466f-8dae-bf64ceb111ed@default> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:15:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8963 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=940 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807240044 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > Put that motivation in NEWS. Users deserve to be told why > > things change incompatibly. >=20 > OK, here's a revised NEWS entry. It also mentions avoiding read/print > misbehavior, a more-immediate prompt for this change that I forgot to > mention > previously. >=20 > ** Numbers formatted via %o or %x are now formatted as signed integers. > Formerly they were formatted using machine-dependent two's complement > representations. The new behavior is machine-independent, avoids > misbehavior in calls like (read (format "#x%x" -1)), and is more > compatible with bignums, a planned feature. To get the old behavior, > set the new, experimental variable binary-as-unsigned to t and please > email 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org if you need that. Because %o and %x now > format signed integers, they now support the + and space flags. > (Bug#32252). Thank you for providing the rationale. A minor suggestion would be to drop "new, experimental". There's no way of knowing now whether the variable will be only temporary/experimental, and no reason to broadcast that supposition. I'd also suggest that you remove the part about emailing that bug thread. Also, maybe "space" should be `SPC' (dunno). IMO it's good to let us know why the change was made.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 02:44:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 22:44:42 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54514 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhnJZ-0001IF-Rc for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:44:41 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:36116) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fhnJY-0001I4-LE for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:44:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7D91606C2; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 786-R-AapGD1; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59271160819; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id gUVcqZelK1l2; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06E471606C2; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> <83zhyhuzn2.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <2c5f72ef-afa8-d2b3-6e71-0eef148db78c@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:44:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83zhyhuzn2.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Please don't put bug numbers in NEWS. If some bug is important for > NEWS (I doubt that it ever could be), describe it instead. Sorry, I didn't know that. Should I remove the existing bug numbers in NEWS? There are a half-dozen that could easily be removed. (One would need to stay since it's part of a quotation.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 02:38:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 22:38:12 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhnDI-00019X-3J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:38:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhnDG-00019K-6x for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:38:10 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhnD7-0000z8-Vw for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:38:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49120) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhnD7-0000z2-Rg; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:38:01 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3376 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1fhnD7-0002SO-6Y; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:38:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 05:38:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83zhyhuzn2.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> (message from Paul Eggert on Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:48 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) > From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:48 -0700 > > ** Numbers formatted via %o or %x are now formatted as signed integers. > Formerly they were formatted using machine-dependent two's complement > representations. The new behavior is machine-independent, avoids > misbehavior in calls like (read (format "#x%x" -1)), and is more > compatible with bignums, a planned feature. To get the old behavior, > set the new, experimental variable binary-as-unsigned to t and please > email 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org if you need that. Because %o and %x now > format signed integers, they now support the + and space flags. > (Bug#32252). Please don't put bug numbers in NEWS. If some bug is important for NEWS (I doubt that it ever could be), describe it instead. NEWS is for people who want to grasp changes at a glance, we shouldn't bother them with looking up bugs.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 02:05:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 22:05:02 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhmhB-0000Nh-SO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:05:02 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:33326) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fhmh6-0000NH-AK for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:04:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BF41606C2; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id XSKE6cdjkWvQ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66E3160819; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id bda6Erx9DRaV; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.154.30.119]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 646D91606C2; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <d305c7e8-e4d6-5afd-83ca-989a5c1d897a@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:04:48 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Drew Adams wrote: > Put that motivation in NEWS. Users deserve to be told why > things change incompatibly. OK, here's a revised NEWS entry. It also mentions avoiding read/print=20 misbehavior, a more-immediate prompt for this change that I forgot to men= tion=20 previously. ** Numbers formatted via %o or %x are now formatted as signed integers. Formerly they were formatted using machine-dependent two's complement representations. The new behavior is machine-independent, avoids misbehavior in calls like (read (format "#x%x" -1)), and is more compatible with bignums, a planned feature. To get the old behavior, set the new, experimental variable binary-as-unsigned to t and please email 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org if you need that. Because %o and %x now format signed integers, they now support the + and space flags. (Bug#32252).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 01:20:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 21:20:48 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54482 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhm0O-0005mW-5L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:20:48 -0400 Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:59548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1fhm0M-0005mG-4Y for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:20:46 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6O1DuKA074582; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:20:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=NpNsjMWl1YlSK+g/+rJniEUsBKC1zRtAgN9VQ3RKOj0=; b=hS3wHCD8byFcHs88L8qv1t02c5k0vm446vO0voSQj48Upd1g6BHm44j4rGoBfHwNfI6d sW8Hw8/kzJkKdHzdzFVFQHOjoWCNti207go4S/7L+ecRooEWHaLKTPmHNpe87uIbEC/g 8AH5O1dTMutAmuU8UYGHL802NqwHc+qn4sl5XFs6EaXKMK1A3VNg970ktA0d8LoUgqq4 +YyEGnS8SY4VyHH2lNPgYk7TWvDtcQBBqRMY1FMIvGabBSwtH9I44FtfzrYXshd0rKCm rWJ/Edy/bVwoih11ZKUbQf/cCZ6ckDBj+jktWHPgQ1oefr6B3re0JWgtE0g429A08CwE uQ== Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kbv8sxu6m-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:20:34 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6O1KXTp014419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:20:33 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w6O1KXsX021805; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:20:33 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <f1d1ee60-0396-4882-b13b-c6ad828d9467@default> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:20:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <98bcda3b-bd15-4993-8544-7ddb842fb493@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8963 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=645 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807240012 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > 3. Why the change in the default behavior? >=20 > The primary motivation is that the old behavior can't reasonably be > extended to bignums. Also, it's long been an annoyance that the old > behavior was machine dependent: (format "%x" -1) yields different > answers depending on what machine you're running on. The proposed change > would make this usage portable, and would make it obvious what bignums > should do. Put that motivation in NEWS. Users deserve to be told why things change incompatibly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2018 01:17:05 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 21:17:05 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhlwn-0005gr-1K for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:17:05 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:35580) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1fhlwk-0005gJ-OZ for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 21:17:03 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6O1ESgn075131; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:16:56 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=BT52PABAqC0qmysXcsVnNHGFQJr8mciU7HhHujC18kQ=; b=BbD3ON9q04uDSqkit1Mg3A6s1nu76GFqGCcNprov069OHzB1IK6BrYlTw/KtiR2qmnSN j6dmMnGij78ErxEB20rZUK3+R8bzoNj6VDhBCBr4AGnimz9dnqf0xQ96jFJoewZ3RV8Q 6/7p1KLOMEP5t2wkdPIMsZupU2X/DXEpLJN3VkVDty17PRx0l2nrwwwpwE769uQMjVjp biyLqkv9c4p3FJdZMorLvqQdfiMmxT3/mRX1IfwuYvH2OzHTZLQ/Ec0jKrl4UAXYQRz6 1L8Ie6IM4NC4gBLn1Vfz5jQrf5M0aE4/kpFonvGxlycUhCSYgMMZITXxZjgpw5GgT1UX Qg== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kbwfpps4r-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:16:56 +0000 Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6O1GsxO031010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:16:55 GMT Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6O1GrK1032449; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:16:54 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <6f7e8bae-7bf1-4a91-80d8-fef255ab74f7@default> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:16:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8963 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=875 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807240012 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Although it is indeed an incompatible change, I surveyed the existing > Emacs source code and couldn't find anything that the change would > break. Inadequate. Never wholly irrelevant, but certainly not sufficient. You surveyed something mostly irrelevant. Emacs is about users. Users use Elisp. Lisp code delivered with Emacs is not the same as the set of existing Emacs Lisp code. Far, far from it. This is a classic mistake. > Almost all uses ... would not change. What should be done, usually (not always): 1. Keep the default behavior - at least for a while (typically quite a while). 2. Ask users. Take a poll - beyond this list. What should not be done, usually: * Just do what you feel like - make the default behavior whatever you like. (Note: I don't have a horse in this race. I don't care what the default behavior is in this case, other than, other things being equal it should be kept as is, as that usually perturbs users least.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2018 23:39:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 19:39:18 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54453 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhkQA-0003Th-0M for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:39:18 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:48614) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1fhkQ7-0003TV-HC for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:39:15 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059F8160E48; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id j-LwomUpCcyW; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD9E160E71; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id qX2RsvY6TpMP; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1F8FE160E48; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjRRGw/+Ij03dhYfYl/gXVRiuzV1gGrbHk+t nfrI/C7fAeoFzQ5tVgVinShaPkZo0HTPf18x6IDEdAiO8Mqo1yp0CtHmzGMCJ50o4Grgfjlr 6g/+vtEOKbhleszN2XpJvpwM2QgGvn/laTLUu8PH9aRWTs7qJJZKKKAb4sxYc92FehPu6FOD 0dDiyhlDAq4lOV2mdBpzQbiojoZzQLMQwjpgCTK2572eK9EOEQySUThXrSIz6ASenp4NYTFH s9tuJQvXk9gZDdPSl3bp+47dGxlxEWLpBIM7zIONw4ks4azgT8nvDZxA5IZHtvqBlJLBObYY 0Le61Wp0y3TlBDh2qdK8eYL426W4scEMSuig5gb8OAtQiBW6k2sGUxxeiv8ovWu8YAZgKJfu oWI+uRnMEddruY8JsoM54KaKvZikkKs2bg1ndtLVzHpJ6qFZC7QVjeHUh6/BmgvdjWPZYFTt N+KA9CWX3GQKKgN3uu988yznD7LnB98T4EUH1HA/GnfBqMV1gpzTvPc4qVQinCmIkEFp83zl +G5fCjJJ3W7ivzCnYo4KhKLpFUm97okTKR2LW3xZzEW4cLSWO387MTK3CzDOx5qe6s4a91Zu ZM/j/TQdTLDaqNn83kA4Hq48UHXYxcIh+Nd8k/3w6lFuoK0wrOFiywjLx+0ur5jmmbecBGHc 1xdhAFHOwU0ETIByZAEQAKaF678T9wyH4wjTrV1Pz3cDEoSnV/0ZUrOT37p1dcGyj/IXq1x6 70HRVahAmk0sZpYc25PF9D5GPYHFWlNjuPU96rDndXB3hedmBRhLdC4bAXjI4DV+bmdVe+q/ IMnlZRaVlm9EiMCVAR6w13sReu7qXkW9r3RwY2AzXskp/tAe4BRKr1Zmbvi2nbnQ6epEC42r Rbx0B1EhjbIQZ5JHGk24iPT7LdBgnNmos5wYjzwNlkMQD5T0Ydzhk7J+UxwA5m46mOhRDC2r FV/A0gm5TLy8DXjv/Esc4gYnYai6SQqnUEVh5LuV8YCJBnijs+Tiw71x1icmn6xGI45EugJO gec+rLypYgpVp4x0HI5T88qBRYCkxH3Kg8Qo+EWNA9A4LRQ9DX8njona0gf0s03tocK8kBN6 6UoqqPtHBnc4eMgBymCflK12eKfd2YYxnyg9cZazWA5VslvTxpm76hbg5oiAEH/Vg/8MxHyA nPhfrgwyPrmJEcVBafdspJnYQxBYNco2LFPIhlOvWh8r4at+s+M3Lb26oUTczlgdW1Sf3SDA 77BMRnF0FQyE+7AzV79MBN4ykiqaezQxtaF1Fy/tvkhffSo8u+dwG0EgJh+te38gTcISVr0G IPplLz6YhjrbHrPRF1CN5UuL9DBGjxuN35RLNVEfta6RUFlR6NctTjvrABEBAAHCwWUEGAEC AA8FAkyAcmQCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQ7ZfpDmKqfjSrHA/+KzAKvTxRhA9MWNLxIyJ7S5uJ16gs T3oCjZrBKGEhKMOGX4O0GA6VOEryO7QRCCYah3oxSG38IAnNeiwJXgU9Bzkk85UGbPEd7HGF /VSeHCQwWou6jqUDTSDvn9YhNTdG0KXPM74aC+xr2Zow1O2mhXihgWKD0Dw+0LYPnUOsQ0KO FxHXXYHmRrS1OZPU59BLvc+TRhIhafSHKLwbXK+6ckkxBx6h8z5ccpG0Qs4bFhdFYnFrEieD LoGmnE2YLhdV6swJ9VNCS6pLiEohT3fm7aXm15tZOIyzMZhHRSAPblXxQ0ZSWjq8oRrcYNFx c4W1URpAkBCOYJoXvQfD5L3lqAl8TCqDUzYxhH/tJhbDdHrqHH767jaDaTB1+Talp/2AMKwc XNOdiklGxbmHVG6YGl6g8Lrbsu9NZEI4yLlHzuikthJWgz+3vZhVGyNlt+HNIoF6CjDL2omu 5cEq4RDHM44QqPk6l7O0pUvN1mT4B+S1b08RKpqm/ff015E37HNV/piIvJlxGAYz8PSfuGCB 1thMYqlmgdhd9/BabGFbGGYHA6U4/T5zqU+f6xHy1SsAQZ1MSKlLwekBIT+4/cLRGqCHjnV0 q5H/T6a7t5mPkbzSrOLSo4puj+IToNjYyYIDBWzhlA19avOa+rvUjmHtD3sFN7cXWtkGoi8b uNcby4U= Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <e929ed7f-5168-f20b-861d-cfa4983b3b0c@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:39:08 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 Cc: 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Why breaking longstanding behavior instead of introducing this with a > different format specifier. Like %a. Although it is indeed an incompatible change, I surveyed the existing Emacs source code and couldn't find anything that the change would break. Almost all uses of %x, %X, and %o were with nonnegative integers where the behavior would not change. In the few places I found where the integers could be negative, the resulting strings were things like nonces where the change didn't break anything. Of course I could have missed some uses, and there are uses outside of Emacs source code; still, it seems that this change would break very little user code (and the rare users who might run into a problem have a simple workaround). %a has quite a different meaning in C11, so we'd need to use some other letter (or set of letters, if we want something for %x, %X, %o) if we went that route. This seems like overkill for such a small change to functionality that hardly ever matters; plus, %x, %X and %o would continue to have problematic machine-dependent semantics and would not be sensibly extensible to bignums.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN>
<83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
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Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
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Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 16:30:34 -0700
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On 07/23/2018 12:49 PM, Drew Adams wrote:
> 1. I don't see where the doc now mentions variable `binary-as-signed'.
binary-as-signed is intentionally documented only in its doc string. The
intent is that it be like the variable read-integer-overflow-as-float.
That is, although it's present if someone actually needs it, we're
hoping actual use cases are so rare that we can obsolete the variable
soon. This is also why it's not a user option.
> I don't see where the doc mentions what the output is for %o and %x - for a negative number or a positive number.
For %o the Elisp manual says "Replace the specification with the
base-eight representation of an
integer", and there is similar wording for %x and %X. It might be
helpful to nail down negative-integer handling with wording like "Format
a negative integer with a leading @samp{-} followed by the absolute value."
> 3. Why the change in the default behavior?
The primary motivation is that the old behavior can't reasonably be
extended to bignums. Also, it's long been an annoyance that the old
behavior was machine dependent: (format "%x" -1) yields different
answers depending on what machine you're running on. The proposed change
would make this usage portable, and would make it obvious what bignums
should do.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2018 19:49:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 23 15:49:29 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54362 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fhgpk-0004Qt-Pb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:49:28 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:38442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1fhgpj-0004Qg-D9 for 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:49:28 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w6NJmu6C054196; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:49:14 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2018-07-02; bh=Ltxe59F+k1SXkS1GjKXX+1w6lsA46tx982Es5NcZbM0=; b=xaICREkPiiKaKnk9lDcIez254ZO0KgI3wu4V03NP3sVaNc4Ov9/P3XqvTgypU3LNeVIk ksn/PKG2ASDtfYsZ/g5UBsT9Xte3u2wP8Hb0bUpIdxbIQnNXRjNuFG714OKCskG8Xkwz ZPoQsu6BXF/7K933ee90WFbyxXiJa0lrIEPam4z0BnhBVKx+lzyRG6xuyZCxbnR7G8yD T7bB73lEXuliQmcUFFxn8gjjONR4INyqTU9k60SFls98viw0ryKELPJ5EqF4cZmlzEfz uPOTYyKPVDSWh5zMo4/pZ/KXm61vUL4yXTHyYadS5iDvtA0w+ZUWfsSJKCjbjHbhg38/ IA== Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2kbwfpp18c-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:49:13 +0000 Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w6NJnCG0023430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:49:12 GMT Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w6NJnB2O029679; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:49:12 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <83ad4e6c-bf05-446a-be03-d664c5853cd5@default> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, 32252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: RE: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers References: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4717.0 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8963 signatures=668706 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807230218 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32252 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) 1. I don't see where the doc now mentions variable `binary-as-signed'. And= I don't see where the doc mentions what the output is for %o and %x - for = a negative number or a positive number. 2. Should `binary-as-signed' perhaps be a user option? 3. Why the change in the default behavior?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#32252: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
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> Replace the specification with the base-eight representation of an
> -unsigned integer. The object can also be a nonnegative floating-point
> +integer. The object can also be a floating-point
> number that is formatted as an integer, dropping any fraction, if the
> integer does not exceed machine limits.
Why breaking longstanding behavior instead of introducing this with a
different format specifier. Like %a.
> + DEFVAR_BOOL ("binary-as-unsigned",
> + binary_as_unsigned,
> + doc: /* Non-nil means `format' %x and %o treat numbers as unsigned.
This is the same crap as text-quoting-style. Nil should mean treat
numbers in the tradtional way.
Helmut
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
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From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: [PATCH] %o and %x now format signed numbers
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 12:12:50 -0700
Message-Id: <20180723191250.19182-1-eggert@HIDDEN>
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Treat integers as signed numbers when using the %o
and %x format specifiers, instead of treating them as
a machine-dependent two=E2=80=99s complement representation.
This should make Emacs more machine-independent, and
better-insulated for future changes involving bignums.
The new compatibility variable =E2=80=98binary-as-unsigned=E2=80=99
enables the old machine-dependent behavior.
This is a simplified version of the change proposed in:
https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2018-07/msg00763.html
I simplified that proposal by omitting bitwidth modifiers, as
I could not find an any example uses in the Emacs source code
that needed them and doing them correctly would have been
quite a bit more work for apparently little benefit.
* doc/lispref/strings.texi (Formatting Strings):
* etc/NEWS: Document change.
* src/editfns.c (styled_format): Treat integers as signed
numbers even with %o and %x. Support the + and space
flags with %o and %x, since they=E2=80=99re about signs.
(syms_of_editfns): New compatibility variable binary-as-signed.
* test/src/editfns-tests.el (read-large-integer):
Test that maximal integers can be read after printing
with all integer formats.
(format-%o-invalid-float): Adjust test to match new
behavior, which allows negative octal.
---
doc/lispref/strings.texi | 6 +++---
etc/NEWS | 8 ++++++++
src/editfns.c | 42 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-----
test/src/editfns-tests.el | 11 +++++-----
4 files changed, 54 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-)
diff --git a/doc/lispref/strings.texi b/doc/lispref/strings.texi
index 2fff3c7c75..582561fe42 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/strings.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/strings.texi
@@ -922,7 +922,7 @@ Formatting Strings
@item %o
@cindex integer to octal
Replace the specification with the base-eight representation of an
-unsigned integer. The object can also be a nonnegative floating-point
+integer. The object can also be a floating-point
number that is formatted as an integer, dropping any fraction, if the
integer does not exceed machine limits.
=20
@@ -935,8 +935,8 @@ Formatting Strings
@itemx %X
@cindex integer to hexadecimal
Replace the specification with the base-sixteen representation of an
-unsigned integer. @samp{%x} uses lower case and @samp{%X} uses upper
-case. The object can also be a nonnegative floating-point number that
+integer. @samp{%x} uses lower case and @samp{%X} uses upper
+case. The object can also be a floating-point number that
is formatted as an integer, dropping any fraction, if the integer does
not exceed machine limits.
=20
diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS
index fc2a5d4c03..b735cf49b3 100644
--- a/etc/NEWS
+++ b/etc/NEWS
@@ -697,6 +697,14 @@ To get the old behavior, set the new, experimental v=
ariable
read-integer-overflow-as-float to t and please email
30408 <at> debbugs.gnu.org if you need that. (Bug#30408).
=20
++++
+** Numbers formatted via %o or %x are now formatted as signed integers.
+Formerly they were formatted using machine-dependent two's complement
+representations. To get the old behavior, set the new, experimental
+variable binary-as-unsigned to t and please email emacs-devel@HIDDEN
+if you need that. Because %o and %x now format signed integers, they
+now support the + and space flags.
+
---
** Some functions and variables obsolete since Emacs 22 have been remove=
d:
archive-mouse-extract, assoc-ignore-case, assoc-ignore-representation,
diff --git a/src/editfns.c b/src/editfns.c
index 09f836c3eb..a8fc499d63 100644
--- a/src/editfns.c
+++ b/src/editfns.c
@@ -4196,8 +4196,8 @@ contain either numbered or unnumbered %-sequences b=
ut not both, except
that %% can be mixed with numbered %-sequences.
=20
The + flag character inserts a + before any nonnegative number, while a
-space inserts a space before any nonnegative number; these flags only
-affect %d, %e, %f, and %g sequences, and the + flag takes precedence.
+space inserts a space before any nonnegative number; these flags
+affect only numeric %-sequences, and the + flag takes precedence.
The - and 0 flags affect the width specifier, as described below.
=20
The # flag means to use an alternate display form for %o, %x, %X, %e,
@@ -4736,19 +4736,42 @@ styled_format (ptrdiff_t nargs, Lisp_Object *args=
, bool message)
}
else
{
- /* Don't sign-extend for octal or hex printing. */
uprintmax_t x;
+ bool negative;
if (INTEGERP (arg))
- x =3D XUINT (arg);
+ {
+ EMACS_INT i;
+ if (binary_as_unsigned)
+ {
+ i =3D XUINT (arg);
+ negative =3D false;
+ }
+ else
+ {
+ i =3D XINT (arg);
+ negative =3D i < 0;
+ if (negative)
+ i =3D -i;
+ }
+ x =3D i;
+ }
else
{
double d =3D XFLOAT_DATA (arg);
double uprintmax =3D TYPE_MAXIMUM (uprintmax_t);
+ negative =3D d < 0;
+ if (negative)
+ d =3D -d;
if (! (0 <=3D d && d < uprintmax + 1))
xsignal1 (Qoverflow_error, arg);
x =3D d;
+ negative &=3D x !=3D 0;
}
- sprintf_bytes =3D sprintf (sprintf_buf, convspec, prec, x);
+ sprintf_buf[0] =3D negative ? '-' : plus_flag ? '+' : ' ';
+ bool signedp =3D negative | plus_flag | space_flag;
+ sprintf_bytes =3D sprintf (sprintf_buf + signedp,
+ convspec, prec, x);
+ sprintf_bytes +=3D signedp;
}
=20
/* Now the length of the formatted item is known, except it omits
@@ -5558,6 +5581,15 @@ functions if all the text being accessed has this =
property. */);
DEFVAR_LISP ("operating-system-release", Voperating_system_release,
doc: /* The release of the operating system Emacs is running on.=
*/);
=20
+ DEFVAR_BOOL ("binary-as-unsigned",
+ binary_as_unsigned,
+ doc: /* Non-nil means `format' %x and %o treat numbers as unsign=
ed.
+Nil (the default) means to treat them as signed.
+Treating them as unsigned has machine-dependent results.
+
+This variable is experimental; email emacs-devel@HIDDEN if you need it.=
*/);
+ binary_as_unsigned =3D false;
+
defsubr (&Spropertize);
defsubr (&Schar_equal);
defsubr (&Sgoto_char);
diff --git a/test/src/editfns-tests.el b/test/src/editfns-tests.el
index c828000bb4..57a2081fc5 100644
--- a/test/src/editfns-tests.el
+++ b/test/src/editfns-tests.el
@@ -165,15 +165,16 @@ transpose-test-get-byte-positions
:type 'overflow-error)
(should-error (read (substring (format "%d" most-negative-fixnum) 1))
:type 'overflow-error)
- (should-error (read (format "#x%x" most-negative-fixnum))
- :type 'overflow-error)
- (should-error (read (format "#o%o" most-negative-fixnum))
- :type 'overflow-error)
+ (dolist (fmt '("%d" "%s" "#o%o" "#x%x"))
+ (dolist (val (list most-negative-fixnum (1+ most-negative-fixnum)
+ -1 0 1
+ (1- most-positive-fixnum) most-positive-fixnum))
+ (should (eq val (read (format fmt val))))))
(should-error (read (format "#32rG%x" most-positive-fixnum))
:type 'overflow-error))
=20
(ert-deftest format-%o-invalid-float ()
- (should-error (format "%o" -1e-37)
+ (should-error (format "%o" -1e+INF)
:type 'overflow-error))
=20
;; Bug#31938
--=20
2.17.1
Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32252; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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