Received: (at 32434) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Aug 2018 21:27:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 28 17:27:13 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36062 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fulW4-0004yI-Qx for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:27:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fulW2-0004y4-TH for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:27:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fulVl-0007eQ-9A for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:27:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fulVj-0007bY-R0 for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:26:52 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fulVj-0007t4-7c; Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:26:51 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwlg8r9t4k.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Glenn Morris on Mon, 27 Aug 2018 21:28:43 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#32434: configure option without-xim is non-standard References: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1fq8EY-0007Dl-A4@HIDDEN> <jwlg8r9t4k.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1fulVj-0007t4-7c@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 17:26:51 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32434 Cc: 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Also, it can't be toggled in a running Emacs: > If you know exactly what makes sense as far as turning it on and off, > you've found better XIM documentation than I have, and I'd be > interested in a pointer. That is unfortunate. Is it a missing feature in Emacs or is it a real problem? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
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From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#32434: configure option without-xim is non-standard
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Richard Stallman wrote:
> Can [xim] be controlled by a Lisp variable?
Not trivially, no.
Quoting the previous discussion:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2003-07/msg00292.html
It can't be controlled via Lisp if you want it to apply initially,
like for toolbar and menu.
Also, it can't be toggled in a running Emacs:
If you know exactly what makes sense as far as turning it on and off,
you've found better XIM documentation than I have, and I'd be
interested in a pointer.
It is controlled by X resources when Emacs starts (and these can be
specified as command-line options to Emacs).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32434) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Aug 2018 02:42:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 15 22:42:09 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52207 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fq8Ej-0002jZ-Dh for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:42:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51635) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fq8Eh-0002jJ-Pm for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:42:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fq8Eb-0001Lx-P1 for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:42:02 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:60059) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fq8EZ-0001Ju-P1 for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:42:00 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1fq8EY-0007Dl-A4; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:41:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Glenn Morris on Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:00 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#32434: configure option without-xim is non-standard References: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1fq8EY-0007Dl-A4@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 22:41:58 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32434 Cc: 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I'd always assumed the configure option --without-xim caused Emacs to > be built without XIM support. In fact, all it does is toggle the runtime > default as to whether XIM is *used* or not. > Apparently this is intentional, see thread at > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2003-07/msg00061.html > I think it's wrong to have a build-time option for a feature that can be > controlled at run-time (by X resources). I agree. Can it be controlled by a Lisp variable? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
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From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#32434: configure option without-xim is non-standard
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Noam Postavsky wrote:
>> I think it's wrong to have a build-time option for a feature that can be
>> controlled at run-time (by X resources).
>
> Eli seems okay with the idea for double buffering[1] (though that one is
> by frame parameters, not X resources).
I don't want to mix two issues, but if you're asking, IMO that would
also be a mistake (eg a run-time command-line option would be better).
> I agree it seems a bit redundant, but is it really worth the trouble
> of removing?
Well if no-one actively objects (... oh right, this is Emacs),
I would consider it worth my trouble to remove it, some day.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 32434) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2018 00:38:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 13 20:38:33 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fpNM1-0003gs-HE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:38:33 -0400 Received: from mail-it0-f49.google.com ([209.85.214.49]:35437) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <npostavs@HIDDEN>) id 1fpNM0-0003gg-46 for 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:38:32 -0400 Received: by mail-it0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 139-v6so17244242itf.0 for <32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:38:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=Gwjh0uXGLp5xGothPvoYGu/IW/gFaCa1GbqNW2XK21Q=; b=TfgkVP7taFvdElAttfO6aqxEVGcCRifRAKKMWwpqvXd9Vm+/XlXiXB2FiXJam6TveG x2VvOGRxvQsF3iX1Vp3nEFes8aZroTP7MjDHHZSsXRBGT8IUWahMFWwgAiKNFfT33yPy XTmqw1K0BWg5Sl3vFXfk3NTj0x32QxpH6PrLOe/qJ6IioJaVOHQbXO2vSvxdmBrC/Zy7 D8II1LUNxl0d4aua/YEOtW/ODJ7I+1c7cBWOjHneoc6jCH9vHX8/dwqq09oSvt0UZjou Fabov3wbkDBxqmA0qr663wasEkRrv8FcCQkRx3G15JSfmXWNtjfRvCGYzmPmerVEVddK 6fFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=Gwjh0uXGLp5xGothPvoYGu/IW/gFaCa1GbqNW2XK21Q=; b=Wwv15P7lo9tHFyRr/ClaICnVZ4dcgLOU8b+PBZhXy3MJFj+t6lAXWsoWTuYdUQhLx3 DuaCwreGy20TEq9SuAj6XEUUi8rUT3xFPCt0mUGOCzpHIfPwbjXrC+5VP2qXws64bDtT /xV7bBTsUS1g6+qAD3hO12amvjMRfBsIvkY7/+6S6Ub+dAhNh6vlmVDUax1YU1ohlGjI 382vLKlDh7OzP9aQCH4u0iiaCnXvAIDyAUHFjK02wOcccoxGlbWvFqiGaOnD81UUTqsw CSp3uq28Fk4BFAyFA0OLu8A11YU5l9hKZJeuO31wOv+1uxH4gOTFZCMdrC6XWqJnpkur eDXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFhcmT8AcvABO2PusbT6sAU2euuUAozrdj9uzkNqxJ2VMJJp2s8 CUBh4L8igqJslXuANMwvtTG0Vhw+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPxUdZEeB4mX//CoBULagG4LzBO5gtJJnWYKWCSOAoEKUL9LXq/fGgQXUEUu5wZDiKtZV1lz6A== X-Received: by 2002:a02:4951:: with SMTP id z78-v6mr17501921jaa.40.1534207106370; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zebian (cbl-45-2-119-34.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca. [45.2.119.34]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b27-v6sm6202504itd.2.2018.08.13.17.38.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:38:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#32434: configure option without-xim is non-standard References: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:38:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> (Glenn Morris's message of "Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:00 -0400") Message-ID: <87y3d9vl33.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 32434 Cc: 32434 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> writes: > I think it's wrong to have a build-time option for a feature that can be > controlled at run-time (by X resources). Eli seems okay with the idea for double buffering[1] (though that one is by frame parameters, not X resources). I agree it seems a bit redundant, but is it really worth the trouble of removing? [1]: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32032#77 and followups
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Aug 2018 00:28:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 13 20:28:10 2018 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50021 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1fpNBy-0003Q3-HV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:50732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>) id 1fpNBx-0003Pr-3B for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>) id 1fpNBq-00019g-NT for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:03 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34446) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>) id 1fpNBq-00019c-Jd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:02 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>) id 1fpNBo-0007sf-JD; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:00 -0400 From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: configure option without-xim is non-standard X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:28:00 -0400 Message-ID: <ed1sb1vlkf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -6.0 (------) Package: emacs Version: 26.1 Severity: minor I'd always assumed the configure option --without-xim caused Emacs to be built without XIM support. In fact, all it does is toggle the runtime default as to whether XIM is *used* or not. Apparently this is intentional, see thread at http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2003-07/msg00061.html I think it's wrong to have a build-time option for a feature that can be controlled at run-time (by X resources).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#32434; Package emacs.
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