GNU bug report logs - #32581
24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 21:34:52 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

--text follows this line--

I have emacs open a certain large file at boot-time startup, because the 
Python
mode takes so long to parse it. So I guess I forgot to save last night,
did a windows shutdown, and this morning my work wasn't there... but
while emacs probably gave the warning, it was probably wiped out by the
next warning from the Python mode, and I don't sit there and watch my
computer boot up.  So by the time I noticed stuff from last night was
missing, the recover file had been rewritten with the new edits.

So it would be nice to have an optional way to make that warning require
a response before disappearing.




In GNU Emacs 24.4.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2014-10-20 on KAEL
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.3.9600
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/z/emacs --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --target=x86_64-w64-mingw32 --build=x86_64-w64-mingw32 --with-wide-int
 --with-jpeg --with-xpm --with-png --with-tiff --with-rsvg --with-xml2
 --with-gnutls --with-xft --with-sound=yes --with-file-notification=yes
 --without-dbus --without-imagemagick 'CFLAGS=-Ofast
 -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -g0 -pipe' 'CPPFLAGS=-DNDEBUG
 -DDBUS_STATIC_BUILD' 'LDFLAGS=-static-libgcc -static-libstdc++ -static
 -s -Wl,-s''

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Py

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  which-function-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  size-indication-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<switch-frame> <switch-frame> <switch-frame> <switch-frame>
<switch-frame> <switch-frame> C-x C-f b m u <tab> o
<tab> <return> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo>
<down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo>
<help-echo> <escape> x r e p o r t - e m a c s - b
u g <return>

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to 
make mode-specific abbrevs work.

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
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w32notify w32 multi-tty emacs)

Memory information:
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Message #8 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 04:42:55 +0200

Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:

> I have emacs open a certain large file at boot-time startup, because
> the Python mode takes so long to parse it. So I guess I forgot to save
> last night, did a windows shutdown, and this morning my work wasn't
> there... but while emacs probably gave the warning, it was probably
> wiped out by the next warning from the Python mode, and I don't sit
> there and watch my computer boot up.  So by the time I noticed stuff
> from last night was missing, the recover file had been rewritten with
> the new edits.

If I understand you correctly (and I may not), you're saying that when
you open a Python file that has an auto-saved file, then Emacs says that
an auto-saved file exists...  and then Python mode issues a message that
overwrites that message?

What is that Python-mode message?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:48:26 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 7/12/2019 7:42 PM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:
>
>> I have emacs open a certain large file at boot-time startup, because
>> the Python mode takes so long to parse it. So I guess I forgot to save
>> last night, did a windows shutdown, and this morning my work wasn't
>> there... but while emacs probably gave the warning, it was probably
>> wiped out by the next warning from the Python mode, and I don't sit
>> there and watch my computer boot up.  So by the time I noticed stuff
>> from last night was missing, the recover file had been rewritten with
>> the new edits.
> If I understand you correctly (and I may not), you're saying that when
> you open a Python file that has an auto-saved file, then Emacs says that
> an auto-saved file exists...  and then Python mode issues a message that
> overwrites that message?
>
> What is that Python-mode message?
>

I think you understood correctly.  I'm not sure what version of which 
Python-mode I have, but could probably figure it out somehow (I love 
emacs, because it has extensions, but I'm not real good at writing or 
understanding elisp: I use other people's extensions, mostly, and a bit 
of cut-n-paste programming for a few more customizations).

Probably the following message, that I get every time I open the file.

"Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to 
make mode-specific abbrevs work."

And I find the following line in my .emacs file:

(add-to-list 'load-path "d:/my/py/emacs/python-mode.el-6.1.1")

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Message #14 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 15:35:59 +0200

Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:

> I think you understood correctly.  I'm not sure what version of which
> Python-mode I have, but could probably figure it out somehow (I love emacs,
> because it has extensions, but I'm not real good at writing or understanding
> elisp: I use other people's extensions, mostly, and a bit of cut-n-paste
> programming for a few more customizations).
>
> Probably the following message, that I get every time I open the file.
>
> "Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to make
> mode-specific abbrevs work."

Right.  Some modes are chatty at startup and hides warnings you're
interested in.

It's perfectly valid to not want to load an autosaved file, and making
Emacs prompt would be an inconvenience, in my opinion.

Perhaps Emacs should treat auto-saved files a bit more like what it does
with files that have changed?  I.e., if you try to edit a file with an
auto-save file, it should prompt you something like "foo has auto save
data; really edit the buffer?" or something?

Would that make sense?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #17 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 18:26:00 +0200

On 13.07.19 15:35, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:
>
>> I think you understood correctly.  I'm not sure what version of which
>> Python-mode I have, but could probably figure it out somehow (I love emacs,
>> because it has extensions, but I'm not real good at writing or understanding
>> elisp: I use other people's extensions, mostly, and a bit of cut-n-paste
>> programming for a few more customizations).
>>
>> Probably the following message, that I get every time I open the file.
>>
>> "Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to make
>> mode-specific abbrevs work."
> Right.  Some modes are chatty at startup and hides warnings you're
> interested in.
>
> It's perfectly valid to not want to load an autosaved file, and making
> Emacs prompt would be an inconvenience, in my opinion.
>
> Perhaps Emacs should treat auto-saved files a bit more like what it does
> with files that have changed?  I.e., if you try to edit a file with an
> auto-save file, it should prompt you something like "foo has auto save
> data; really edit the buffer?" or something?
>
> Would that make sense?
>

Hi,

python-mode.el developer here. As for the abbrev-file-name, assume 
that's a general warning from Emacs.

Looking for the value of abbrev-file-name and creating a file of that 
name if not existing should silence that warning.

Also auto-save issue seems not mode-related.

BTW bug-reports are welcome at 
https://gitlab.com/python-mode-devs/python-mode/issues

Best,

Andreas

Message #20 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 19:10:56 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 7/13/2019 6:35 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:
>
>> I think you understood correctly.  I'm not sure what version of which
>> Python-mode I have, but could probably figure it out somehow (I love emacs,
>> because it has extensions, but I'm not real good at writing or understanding
>> elisp: I use other people's extensions, mostly, and a bit of cut-n-paste
>> programming for a few more customizations).
>>
>> Probably the following message, that I get every time I open the file.
>>
>> "Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to make
>> mode-specific abbrevs work."
> Right.  Some modes are chatty at startup and hides warnings you're
> interested in.
>
> It's perfectly valid to not want to load an autosaved file, and making
> Emacs prompt would be an inconvenience, in my opinion.

I agree that a prompt (a forced interaction) would not be appropriate.
> Perhaps Emacs should treat auto-saved files a bit more like what it does
> with files that have changed?  I.e., if you try to edit a file with an
> auto-save file, it should prompt you something like "foo has auto save
> data; really edit the buffer?" or something?

This is a very interesting idea. It is only when you go to edit that you 
would lose the auto-save file, so that would be a "last-chance" to 
retrieve your data, and you would be interacting with the file at that 
point anyway, so a forced interaction would be less intrusive than at 
load time.

> Would that make sense?
>
That would certainly be safer than the current behavior, but would add 
the forced interaction.

My thought was more along the lines of some sort of message priority, 
where informational messages like the abbrev-file-name warning could not 
override a more important message... Of course, everyone thinks there 
message is most important, so that might be difficult to enforce or rank.

Another idea is that multiple messages could be displayed concurrently 
in an expanding echo area, and that none would vanish until the first 
user interaction. That way, when the user turns their attention to the 
emacs window again, all the messages from startup activities would be 
visible until the first keystroke or significant mouse operation (more 
than just a click) for the window occurs. This wouldn't require a forced 
interaction, and wouldn't require ranking message priorities, but would 
allow the user an opportunity to see all the startup messages. And it 
could generalize to non-startup situations: any occasion when macros or 
scripts are running and produce multiple messages without user 
interaction might want to grow the echo area to display them until there 
is another required user interaction.

Thanks for considering the possibility of enhancing something in this 
area, as it was a significant amount of work that was lost, and it could 
potentially happen again, and not just to me (I'm a little sensitized to 
the possibility now, others may not yet be).

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #23 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:50:46 +0200

Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:

> This is a very interesting idea. It is only when you go to edit that
> you would lose the auto-save file, so that would be a "last-chance" to
> retrieve your data, and you would be interacting with the file at that
> point anyway, so a forced interaction would be less intrusive than at
> load time.

Yes, I think that warning about the auto-saved file when you try to edit
the new file has possibilities...  I'm wondering whether there would be
any adverse effects somehow.  Emacs has a number of things that warn
about editing files -- that it's changed on disk, or that another Emacs
process has the file locked, and now checking for auto-saved files in
the same area would perhaps add unforeseen complications.

But perhaps we should just try and see what it feels like in practice.

> My thought was more along the lines of some sort of message priority, where
> informational messages like the abbrev-file-name warning could not override a
> more important message... Of course, everyone thinks there message is most
> important, so that might be difficult to enforce or rank.

We do have a very primitive sort of message priority -- i.e., we have
some things that are so bad that we pop up the *Warnings* buffer.  But I
think that's too intrusive for auto-saved files.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #26 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 14:55:28 +0200

Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> writes:

> python-mode.el developer here. As for the abbrev-file-name, assume
> that's a general warning from Emacs.
>
> Looking for the value of abbrev-file-name and creating a file of that
> name if not existing should silence that warning.
>
> Also auto-save issue seems not mode-related.

Yes, this isn't really a python-mode issue...

> BTW bug-reports are welcome at
> https://gitlab.com/python-mode-devs/python-mode/issues

... but there are a number of python-mode bugs in the Emacs bug tracker.
Looks like about 40-ish, with an additional ten that are in the
intersection of python mode and CEDET.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #29 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:06:12 +0200

On 14.07.19 14:55, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>
> Yes, this isn't really a python-mode issue...
>
>> BTW bug-reports are welcome at
>> https://gitlab.com/python-mode-devs/python-mode/issues
> ... but there are a number of python-mode bugs in the Emacs bug tracker.
> Looks like about 40-ish, with an additional ten that are in the
> intersection of python mode and CEDET.
>
Understood  a fairly old version of python-mode.el was mentioned in this 
report, not python.el developed here.

Message #32 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:18:32 +0200

Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> writes:

> Understood  a fairly old version of python-mode.el was mentioned in
> this report, not python.el developed here.

Ah, I see.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #35 received at 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com>
Cc: 32581 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32581: 24.4; make recover-file a prompt instead of a warning
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2022 05:13:22 +0100

Glenn Linderman <v+python <at> g.nevcal.com> writes:

> Probably the following message, that I get every time I open the file.
>
> "Warning: no abbrev-file found, customize `abbrev-file-name' in order to make
> mode-specific abbrevs work."

(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)

I can't find that message in the Emacs tree, so I guess it's coming from
a third party package?

In any case, I think we decided to not make recover-file into a prompt,
so I think the problem here really is that warning message, which seems
unhelpful and excessive.  Therefore I don't really think there's
anything much to be done on the Emacs side, and I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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