GNU bug report logs - #32649
27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 21:04:41 +0200

In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1

(foo\n(a ;(b c d)
e) bar)

M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening paren 
inside comment.

Thanks,
Andreas,
GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.5) of 
2018-08-29

Message #8 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Cc: 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 12:46:28 +0800

On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>
> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
> e) bar)
>
> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
> paren inside comment.

I am not following. What is the issue here?

up-list has always worked that way and it is a nice feature of emacs
that I use everybody.

Cheers,
Leo

Message #11 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 09:52:08 +0200

On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>
>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>> e) bar)
>>
>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>> paren inside comment.
> 
> I am not following. What is the issue here?

A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.

Message #14 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Cc: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:53:35 +0200

On Sep 07 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:

> On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
>> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>>
>>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>>> e) bar)
>>>
>>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>>> paren inside comment.
>>
>> I am not following. What is the issue here?
>
> A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.

Sure it can.  Just because it's behind a comment char doesn't mean it's
not a list.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Message #17 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 19:15:13 +0200

On 07.09.2018 10:53, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> On Sep 07 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:
> 
>> On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
>>> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>>>
>>>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>>>> e) bar)
>>>>
>>>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>>>> paren inside comment.
>>>
>>> I am not following. What is the issue here?
>>
>> A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.
> 
> Sure it can.  Just because it's behind a comment char doesn't mean it's
> not a list.
> 
> Andreas.

From Elisp Info

2.2 Comments
============

A "comment" is text that is written in a program only for the sake of
humans that read the program, and that has no effect on the meaning of
the program.  [...] The Lisp reader discards comments; they do not
become part of the Lisp objects which represent the program within the
Lisp system.

;;;

BTW being in favor to remove all syntax-fiddling from plain text modes 
and fundamental-mode alike. Setting syntax there must produce 
inconsistency and unexpected behavior.


An example: try M-x backward-sexp RET from end of a text-mode buffer 
with contents:

1) Asdf
2) Asdf

> 

Message #20 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Cc: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2018 19:54:11 +0200

On Sep 08 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:

> On 07.09.2018 10:53, Andreas Schwab wrote:
>> On Sep 07 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
>>>> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>>>>
>>>>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>>>>> e) bar)
>>>>>
>>>>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>>>>> paren inside comment.
>>>>
>>>> I am not following. What is the issue here?
>>>
>>> A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.
>>
>> Sure it can.  Just because it's behind a comment char doesn't mean it's
>> not a list.
>>
>> Andreas.
>
> From Elisp Info
>
> 2.2 Comments
> ============
>
> A "comment" is text that is written in a program only for the sake of
> humans that read the program, and that has no effect on the meaning of
> the program.  [...] The Lisp reader discards comments; they do not
> become part of the Lisp objects which represent the program within the
> Lisp system.

The concept of a list is independent of any programming language, and
has nothing to do with the Lisp reader.  Moreover, you can run
eval-last-sexp also inside a comment.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Message #23 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 21:26:11 +0200

On 08.09.2018 19:54, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> On Sep 08 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:
> 
>> On 07.09.2018 10:53, Andreas Schwab wrote:
>>> On Sep 07 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>>>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>>>>>> e) bar)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>>>>>> paren inside comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not following. What is the issue here?
>>>>
>>>> A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.
>>>
>>> Sure it can.  Just because it's behind a comment char doesn't mean it's
>>> not a list.
>>>
>>> Andreas.
>>
>>  From Elisp Info
>>
>> 2.2 Comments
>> ============
>>
>> A "comment" is text that is written in a program only for the sake of
>> humans that read the program, and that has no effect on the meaning of
>> the program.  [...] The Lisp reader discards comments; they do not
>> become part of the Lisp objects which represent the program within the
>> Lisp system.
> 
> The concept of a list is independent of any programming language, and
> has nothing to do with the Lisp reader. 

Hmm, didn't expect that and don't believe it. We speak about lists in 
emacs-lisp here, it is defined what a list is. They affect there meaning 
of a program and therefor can't exist inside a comment.




 Moreover, you can run
> eval-last-sexp also inside a comment.
> 

Thanks, just another bug. As the info above tells contents of a comment 
having no effect WRT meaning of a program, result of evaluation in this 
case comes from the deepness of nothing? ;)

Message #26 received at 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>,
 Leo Liu <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>, 32649 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32649: 27.0.50; up-list stops inside comment
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 04:51:26 -0700

tags 32649 + notabug wontfix
close 32649
thanks

Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org> writes:

> On Sep 07 2018, Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de> wrote:
>
>> On 07.09.2018 06:46, Leo Liu wrote:
>>> On 2018-09-06 21:04 +0200, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>> In scratch-buffer, cursor at "d" towards end of line 1
>>>>
>>>> (foo\n(a ;(b c d)
>>>> e) bar)
>>>>
>>>> M-- M-x up-list --called with negative argument-- stops at opening
>>>> paren inside comment.
>>>
>>> I am not following. What is the issue here?
>>
>> A list can't start resp. end inside a commented section.
>
> Sure it can.  Just because it's behind a comment char doesn't mean it's
> not a list.

The request here is to make the navigational command `up-list' ignore
commented out text.  From reading this thread, no one was very
enthusiastic about this proposal.

To the arguments presented by others for the correctness of this
behaviour, I can only add that the proposal would make the command
significantly less useful.

I'm therefore closing this as wontfix.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

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