GNU bug report logs - #32722
26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?

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Package: emacs,org-mode; Reported by: Nicolas Floquet <n@HIDDEN>; dated Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:24:03 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 21:17:51 +0200
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Hello,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el.  I asked a few
> questions about that in this discussion, see
>
>   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95
>
> Would the Org developers please reply to those questions?  If indeed
> it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think
> it's a better solution.

I cannot evaluate the difficulty to adapt "ox-html.el" to htmlfontify.
I know nothing about either this specific part of the code base or
htmlize and I do not use it either.

However, I see that "ox-odt.el" already uses htmlfontify, so it might be
possible to use a similar mechanism.

I assume this is the only way out of this, so I'll have a look at it.
But I need time. What would help would be some feedback from users
actually tweaking `org-html-htmlize-output-type'. What do they expect
from the various values, etc.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
In-Reply-To: <831s9qezqo.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 19 Sep
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Hello,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which
> should, too, should probably be removed.

There are currently four occurrences of "github" in the manual:

   The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the
   /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of devices, was started by Richard
   Moreland and is now in the hands of Sean Escriva. Android users
   should check out
   [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg
   Android]] by Matt Jones.

   For HTML you need to install Hrvoje Niksic's =htmlize.el= from
   [[https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize][Hrvoje Niksic's
   repository]].

   Fontified code chunks in LaTeX can be achieved using either the
   listings package or the [[https://github.com/gpoore/minted][minted]]
   package. Refer to ~org-export-latex-listings~ for details.

If you do think that these URL need to be removed, what would you
suggest to use instead?

> And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the
> Emacs repository.  Would it be possible to apply the changes from
> Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of
> changes?

I do not know about the exact process of merging Org within Emacs. You
can probably cherry-pick the changes from Org's master branch.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 18:29:29 +0530
From: Bingo UV <right.ho@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free
 platform ?
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Hi RMS, Nicolas
   The concrete software MobileOrg on Android is somewhat of an orphan.
   It may not revive as itself. But there is also a protocol mobileorg,
   which the manual alludes to, though does not document directly. That
   protocol is very much an enabler of software freedom, and it is
   important for the next MobileOrg to be written. I hope it survives
   these questions.

The protocol can be used to sync 2 sets of org-mode files between 2
emacs instances - without needing the iOS or Android versions of
MobileOrg. When fancypants sync systems like dropbox, git, syncthing,
rsync etc. are not available, the mobileorg protocol can be used to
transfer changes from one place to another.

As for the questions :

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:26 -0400
Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
> What is the source license of Mobile.org?

GPLv3
(https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/blob/master/LICENSE.txt)

> 
Is it listed in f-droid.org?

It used to be, it has been kicked out of f-droid due to violating
policies : including dubious jars. Dropbox API that it was using was
surely non-free.


>   > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server.  MobileOrg
>   > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration.
>   > Additional help is at this
>   > [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ
>   > entry]].  
> 
> Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox?
> 
> Is the WebDAV server code free software?  Can you talk to such a
> server without any nonfree client software?

There are 2 other ways to use Android MobileOrg not included in the
worg page:
1. SSH
2. Local filesystem


Also, since one can write one's own WebDAV server using specs, it
doesn't matter if some particular WebDAV servers are free or not.

thanks




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:31:06 +0200
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Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello,

Hi,

>> Is the WebDAV server code free software?
>
> At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF
> directory.
>
>> Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software?
>
> I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for
> Nextcloud, which is free.

For the records, Emacs 27.0.50 / Tramp 2.4.1-pre got a nextcloud client
for GNU/Linux systems. Like the Gnome File Manager it uses the GVFS
library and tools.

> Regards,

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
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Hello,

Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes:

> What is the source license of Mobile.org?

It is GPL2+.

> Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries,
> such as Google Play Library?

No idea.

> Is it listed in f-droid.org?

Yes, it is.

> If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are
> necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client
> software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_.
> (The operations necessary in this context must include creating an
> account.)

I don't know.

> Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox?

Yes, it is. MobileOrg just needs to get read/write access to some Org
files from anywhere. Dropbox is one way to do that. Any online storage
with WebDAV support fits the bill, too.

I think Dropbox is being mentioned because it may not be trivial for
users to do self-hosting or to find an ethical location for their files.
So, here comes the ready-to-use solution.

> Is the WebDAV server code free software?

At least some implementations are, e.g., Nextcloud, listed in the FSF
directory.

> Can you talk to such a server without any nonfree client software?

I do it with Gnome file manager. There is also an official client for
Nextcloud, which is free.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




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On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 2:57 AM Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> wrote:

> The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it
> blurs the distinction between Emacs itself
> and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs.
> We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it.

There are a handful of references to MELPA inside Emacs.  Are these to
be discouraged?  If not, htmlize is on MELPA and could be referenced
there.




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Hi,
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 08:43:19 +0300
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400
> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>, Glenn Morris
> > <rgm@HIDDEN>, n@HIDDEN, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>,
> > 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@HIDDEN>, Eli
> > Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> >=20
> > I got approval from Hrvoje Nik=C5=A1i=C4=87 that he was fine with your
> > mirror[0].
> >=20
> > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in
> > ox-html? =20
>=20
> I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el.  I asked a few
> questions about that in this discussion, see
>=20
>   https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D32722#95
>=20
> Would the Org developers please reply to those questions?  If indeed
> it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think
> it's a better solution.

Not an =E2=80=9COrg developer=E2=80=9D -- I guess mostly Nicolas Goaziou ca=
n claim that
title at the moment with two thirds of all commits last year..

As to your questions:

> This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a
> copy of the region to produce HTML for.  Right?

plus removing HTML document headers and footers, remove css stuff,
rework this, so we have css to include in the final document...


> > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools
> > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all
> > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on:
> >=20
> > - a copy of =E2=80=9Cfind=E2=80=9D which provides the =E2=80=9C-path=E2=
=80=9D predicate
> > - a copy of =E2=80=9Csed=E2=80=9D
> > - a copy of the =E2=80=9Cfile=E2=80=9D command
>=20
> These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to
> produce HTML for files in a directory.  Is that an important use case
> for the issue at hand?  E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region
> of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU.  Did I
> miss something?

No. At that moment in the discussion it wasn't clear the issue with htmlize=
 (and github) has been seen fundamentally different by non-org people as op=
posed to people developing and using org-mode.

> > A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of
> > htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks.
>=20
> I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use
> case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting.

See above.

> > If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment
> > documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs.
>=20
> We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to
> happen.  I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason,
> among others.

Sorry, didn't know there's a history.


Best regards
Robert




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 (message from Kaushal Modi on Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400)
Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free
 platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
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> From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400
> Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>, Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>, n@HIDDEN, 
> 	Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Horn <rjhorniii@HIDDEN>, 
> 	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> 
> I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0].
> 
> So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html?

I think we could do better by using htmlfontify.el.  I asked a few
questions about that in this discussion, see

  https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=32722#95

Would the Org developers please reply to those questions?  If indeed
it is not hard to adapt htmlfontify to be used by Org, then I think
it's a better solution.

TIA




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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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> From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:54:30 -0400
> Cc: n@HIDDEN, amin@HIDDEN, mail@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> 	rjhorniii@HIDDEN
> 
> Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated.

There's no such code.  There's a function that, if invoked, signals an
error with this text:

  "Cannot fontify source block (htmlize.el >= 1.34 required)"




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> From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
> Cc: n@HIDDEN, rjhorniii@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> 	mail@HIDDEN, kaushal.modi@HIDDEN
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:50:43 -0400
> 
>   > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already
>   > took care of that,
> 
> That depends on what the changed text actually says.  I have not seen it;
> would you please send it to me?

There's no changed text: the original message telling from where to
install htmlize was deleted.  There's now only the error message
(which was there before) saying that htmlize is required.




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 (message from Kaushal Modi on Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:16:28 -0400)
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete
  > > address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a
  > > proprietary platform.  Further, we're not claiminig copyright or
  > > maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a
  > > freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself.

  > I got approval from Hrvoje Nikšić that he was fine with your mirror[0].

  > So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html?

No, it is not ok.
We still need to replace htmlize.

The deep problem with the reference to htmlize is that it
blurs the distinction between Emacs itself
and Lisp code that is not part of Emacs.
We need to highlight that distinction, not blur it.

Please leave the code to suggest loading htmlize deactivated.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






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Subject: Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already
  > took care of that,

That depends on what the changed text actually says.  I have not seen it;
would you please send it to me?

		       and there should be no rush to convert Org to using
  > htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other
  > references to GitHub.  Right?

I wouldn't assume all those mentions are similar cases.
This is a matter of details, and I have not seen them,
so I don't know whether they are real problems or not.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

The crucial question here is whether Mobile.org is free software.  If
it is not, then GNU packages including their documentation should not
mention it at all.  See the chapter References in the GNU Coding
Standards.

What is the source license of Mobile.org?

Does Mobile.org for Android link with any nonfree libraries,
such as Google Play Library?  Is it listed in f-droid.org?

I don't think it is possible to have free apps for the iMonsters.
This is because iOS does not allow users to install modified versions
of apps, even if the app's source is released under a free license.


Another issue is the suggestion to use DropBox.
Normal use of Dropbox involves running nonfree JS software
(see https://gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html),
so we cannot recommend using Dropbox in the normal way.

If there is a way to use Dropbox (for those operations that are
necessary in this context) without running any nonfree client
software, it would be ok to recommend using Dropbox _in that way_.
(The operations necessary in this context must include creating an
account.)

However, the text you showed me does not include such a specific
recommendation, so we have to eliminate it.  We could reinsert the
discussion of Dropbox if and when someone writes text to recommend a
suitable specific way to use it.

  > [fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server.  MobileOrg
  > documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration.  Additional
  > help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]].

Is this a way to use MobileOrg without Dropbox?

Is the WebDAV server code free software?  Can you talk to such a
server without any nonfree client software?


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free
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To: Amin Bandali <amin@HIDDEN>
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On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 6:24 PM Amin Bandali <amin@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize
>
> Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the
> repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly
> every 8 hours or so.
>
> This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete
> address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a
> proprietary platform.  Further, we're not claiminig copyright or
> maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a
> freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself.

I got approval from Hrvoje Nik=C5=A1i=C4=87 that he was fine with your mirr=
or[0].

So I believe it should be OK reference that mirror repo in ox-html?

[0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23#issuecomment-422946=
622




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
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From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Hello,

Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes:

> That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says.  Can you
> show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems?

All references are related to the appendix about MobileOrg, an
application for viewing and capturing entries from a mobile device.
Relevant parts include references to Apple and Google products in
addition to Dropbox:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
MobileOrg is a companion mobile app that runs on iOS and Android
devices.  MobileOrg enables offline-views and capture support for an
Org mode system that is rooted on a "real" computer.  MobileOrg can
record changes to existing entries.

The [[https://github.com/MobileOrg/][iOS implementation]] for the /iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/ series of
devices, was started by Richard Moreland and is now in the hands of
Sean Escriva.  Android users should check out [[http://wiki.github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/][MobileOrg Android]] by
Matt Jones.  Though the two implementations are not identical, they
offer similar features.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
MobileOrg needs access to a file directory on a server to interact
with Emacs.  With a public server, consider encrypting the files.
MobileOrg version 1.5 supports encryption for the iPhone.  Org also
requires =openssl= installed on the local computer.  To turn on
encryption, set the same password in MobileOrg and in Emacs.  Set the
password in the variable ~org-mobile-use-encryption~[fn:145].  Note
that even after MobileOrg encrypts the file contents, the file name
remains visible on the file systems of the local computer, the server,
and the mobile device.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
For a server to host files, consider options like [[http://dropbox.com][Dropbox.com]]
account[fn:146].  On first connection, MobileOrg creates a directory
=MobileOrg= on Dropbox.  Pass its location to Emacs through an
initialisation file variable as follows:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq org-mobile-directory "~/Dropbox/MobileOrg")
#+end_src
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Here is the footnote from the last excerpt:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
[fn:146] An alternative is to use a WebDAV server.  MobileOrg
documentation has details of WebDAV server configuration.  Additional
help is at this [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-faq.html#mobileorg_webdav][FAQ entry]].
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I think that is about it.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




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Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free
 platform ?
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> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:14:27 +0200
> From: Robert Klein <roklein@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>, n@HIDDEN,
>  kaushal.modi@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rms@HIDDEN
> 
> > From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using
> > htmlize to htmlfontify.  Can this be done, please?
> 
> Not easily, no.  Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML
> document, which htmlize doesn't.  Also, htmlize can format parts of a
> buffer. which htmlfontify can't.

This should be very easy to fix, by using temporary buffers with a
copy of the region to produce HTML for.  Right?

> Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools
> (according to the man page) which might not be available on all
> platform Emacs and org-mode is used on:
> 
> - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate
> - a copy of “sed”
> - a copy of the “file” command

These are only needed if one invokes htmlfontify-copy-and-link-dir to
produce HTML for files in a directory.  Is that an important use case
for the issue at hand?  E.g., if you need to produce HTML for a region
of a buffer, these facilities seem to not be relevant, AFAIU.  Did I
miss something?

> A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of
> htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks.

I wonder whether we could begin by just supporting the immediate use
case(s) in point, maybe that is possible without too much rewriting.

> If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment
> documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs.

We've been through this several times in the past: it isn't going to
happen.  I think htmlfontify was added to Emacs for that rteason,
among others.




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> From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
> Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, n@HIDDEN, rjhorniii@HIDDEN,
> 	32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mail@HIDDEN,
> 	kaushal.modi@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:39:49 -0400
> 
>   > While there are numerous references
>   > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally
>   > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for
>   > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install
>   > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you
>   > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing.
> 
> You've put your finger on the crucial point.
> Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok.
> The problem is suggest users get it and run it.

If that is the crucial point, then the recent change to Org already
took care of that, and there should be no rush to convert Org to using
htmlfontify, as this issue is now on the same level as the other
references to GitHub.  Right?




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> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  rjhorniii@HIDDEN,  n@HIDDEN,  kaushal.modi@HIDDEN,  rms@HIDDEN,  32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:07:19 +0200
> 
> I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter
> to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are
> not fontified.

Thanks!

There's also a similar reference to htmlize in the Org manual, which
should, too, should probably be removed.

And I'd like to backport these changes to the emacs-26 branch of the
Emacs repository.  Would it be possible to apply the changes from
Org's master branch, or do we need a slightly different set of
changes?




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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are
  > > not free either.

That may or may not be a problem, depending on what it says.  Can you
show me what it actually says about those nonfree systems?
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools
  > (according to the man page) which might not be available on all
  > platform Emacs and org-mode is used on:

  > - a copy of “find” which provides the “-path” predicate
  > - a copy of “sed”
  > - a copy of the “file” command

Using them is not a problem.  Those are part of the GNU system, and
you can install the packages thru your distro's package system (but I
expect they are preinstalled anyway).

It might be an inconvenience on non-GNU systems.  We give them low
priority, but if you feel like writing code in htmlfontify to do without
them, that is ok.

I would expect it is not very hard to fix htmlfontify to solve all its
practical drawbacks.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern.

The concern is _about_ the reference to GitHub, but what _makes it a problem_
is that it is suggesting that people load specific code from there.
THAT is the issue here.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
References: <531a7f93882cc0d5d09700457d06ea082f47569b.camel@HIDDEN>
 <E1g0IPY-000465-4I@HIDDEN>
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other
  > external stuff

Those other cases may or may not be problems, depending on the situation.

The ability to work with some other free software package (for
instance, LaTeX0, if the user happens to use that, is no problem at all.

Invoking some separate program, having no particular relationship
with Emacs, is ok too if the idea is that that program does some
separate job and that's what the user wants to do.

However, Emacs should not try to bypass the distro's own package
installation system by telling users to install things directly.

Would you please show me the other cases where Org suggests
loading something else?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nikšić in his repo's issue thread[0].

Thanks for asking him.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter
  > to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are
  > not fontified.

Thank you.  That is a step forward.

However, this is still not as it should be.  What we really need to do is
(1) get htmlize into Emacs, or
(2) use some other facility that is in Emacs.

Since it now appears we can't do (1), we should do (2).  Someone mentioned
that there was code in Emacs that we could use instead.

It isn't a rush, now, but could someone please volunteer to do this,
over the next few months?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > While there are numerous references
  > to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally
  > live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for
  > running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install
  > something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you
  > wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing.

You've put your finger on the crucial point.
Just talking about something that is in GitHub is ok.
The problem is suggest users get it and run it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN> writes:

> I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter
> to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are
> not fontified.

I was going to suggest a less harsher and potentially more
helpful approach: in the short term, mirror the htmlize repo on
code.orgmode.org, the official Gogs instance where Org mode is
hosted and developed.  In the long term, work on replacing
htmlize with htmlfontify.

I set up a mirror: https://code.orgmode.org/aminb/emacs-htmlize

Assuming code.orgmode.org uses Gogs' default mirror settings, the
repo should be automatically synchronized with upstream roughly
every 8 hours or so.

This way, we'd still be able to point the users to a concrete
address to get htmlize from, without directly pointing them to a
proprietary platform.  Further, we're not claiminig copyright or
maintainership of the repo and we're merely mirroring it on a
freedom-respecting platform along with Org itself.

  -amin




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Hello,

Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> writes:

> I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives
> a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository
> Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html.
> So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references
> to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally
> live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for
> running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install
> something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you
> wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing.

I removed htmlize URL from the error message. I also demoted the latter
to a plain message. So, if htmlize is not installed, source blocks are
not fontified.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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I think (or rather assume) that the issue is that GitHub receives
a grade F ("unacceptable") evaluation acccording to the GNU Ethical Repository
Criteria; https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html.
So does SourceForge, by the way. While there are numerous references
to GitHub and SourceForge in Emacs (and some components even nominally
live there, by the way, eg CEDET, cc-mode...), it's rare (unique?) for
running a GNU Emacs command to actually print "hey, go install
something from this non-ethical repository to finish doing what you
wanted to do". It's a different level of referencing.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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From: Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:29:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CAFyQvY2rFpTsctDnVqKs4N1VYhG26jb2f+JOgUuAj4EREqRoJw@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish
 depend on non-free platform ?
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>,
 emacs-org list <emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN>, 
 Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
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Hello all,

I heard back from htmlize.el author Hrvoje Nik=C5=A1i=C4=87 in his repo's i=
ssue thread[0].

So here's the summary:

- Hrvoje Nik=C5=A1i=C4=87 does not want to assign the copyright of htmlize =
to
FSF. So it cannot be part of Emacs, Org mode or even GNU Elpa.
- The package will keep living in its GitHub repo.

1. If user has issues with GitHub's non-free JS:

- Download htmlize directly from
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/master/htmlize.el.

2. If user does not want to use htmlize, or want Org mode to suggest
installing it from GitHub, set org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil.

Note that the htmlize.el package by itself is GPLv2, so it is free.

Does this settle the issue?

[0]: https://github.com/hniksic/emacs-htmlize/issues/23




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Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722: bug#32722: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on
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On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 2:53 PM Robert Klein <roklein@HIDDEN> wrote:

> When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably
> should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a
> switch, but I'm not sure).

Setting org-html-htmlize-output-type to nil will not prompt the user
to install htmlize. With that setting, code blocks will not be
htmlized, and instead just exported as plain text.




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bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 19:53:14 +0300
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii
> > <eliz@HIDDEN>, kaushal.modi@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> > rms@HIDDEN Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400
> > 
> > /* from RMS email later in thread
> > To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another
> > release with that reference to GitHub.  Eli, do you agree?
> > */
> > 
> > This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern.  
> 
> We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it.
> 
> 
> 

That's, what the original message on the bug list refers to, however.

I think the original bug report is bogus.  Especially in view of your
statement above.

As already pointed out by Nicolas Goaziou, org-mode also requires other
external stuff (just as htmlfontify does, see my mail and its manual:
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/htmlfontify.html#Requirements).

The reason, e.g. LaTeX isn't mentioned explicitly in the manual or in
org is that it is a well-known software.  The link is only given as a
friendly hint.  


Also, in regards to the original bug report, while htmlize is _hosted_
on github, which indeed is not free, htmlize itself _is_ free.  Right
at the beginning of htmlize.el it says:

;; This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
;; it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
;; the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option)
;; any later version.

When the original poster doesn't want to use htmlize, he probably
should try to export without fontifying source code (I think there's a
switch, but I'm not sure).


Best regards
Robert







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bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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> From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, kaushal.modi@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rms@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:37:45 -0400
> 
> /* from RMS email later in thread
> To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another
> release with that reference to GitHub.  Eli, do you agree?
> */
> 
> This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern.

We have quite a few references to GitHub in Emacs, just grep for it.




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From: Robert Horn <rjhorn@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Floquet <n@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [O] bug#32722:  bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Nicolas Floquet writes:

> Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with
> technical solutions, I guess=E2=80=A6
>

Perhaps you could clarify the ethical issues.  The initial RMS comment
on this issue in this thread is:

/* from RMS email

Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs
(counting ELPA).  So this needs to be deleted.

If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs.
Is there some obstacle to that?

*/

I can hypothesize various ethical, marketing, operational, and user
experience reasons for not advising people to load ...

Could you explain the ethical issue(s) that are of specific concern.

Further from RMS was the suggested technical fix

/* from RMS email later in thread
To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another
release with that reference to GitHub.  Eli, do you agree?
*/

This makes it clearly the reference to Github that is the concern.  I
could accept a change such as replacing that reference with text saying
"use ???? to find html..."  I'm not sure what to suggest since Google,
duck-duck-go, and other search engines are all commercial non-free
operations.

Rehosting onto a free platform, perhaps gnu.org, might be an option.  A
simple mirror onto a free platform might suffice.  Linux, python, and
other major open source efforts deal with platform issues by providing
their own primary distribution platform.

I can seem some ethical concerns with using a proprietary platform.  Git
was created due to problems with a dependency on a proprietary platform,
although in that case it was more related to a divergence in business
strategic directions than ethical issues.

--
Robert Horn
rjhorniii@HIDDEN




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On Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:49:27 +0300
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: rms@HIDDEN,  kaushal.modi@HIDDEN,  n@HIDDEN,
> > 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200
> >=20
> > This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org
> > developers to solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who
> > is willing to give them a hand? =20
>=20
> From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using
> htmlize to htmlfontify.  Can this be done, please?
>=20
>=20
>=20

Not easily, no.  Afaik htmlfontify always creates a complete HTML
document, which htmlize doesn't.  Also, htmlize can format parts of a
buffer. which htmlfontify can't.

Additionally htmlfontify also requires several external tools
(according to the man page) which might not be available on all
platform Emacs and org-mode is used on:

- a copy of =E2=80=9Cfind=E2=80=9D which provides the =E2=80=9C-path=E2=80=
=9D predicate
- a copy of =E2=80=9Csed=E2=80=9D
- a copy of the =E2=80=9Cfile=E2=80=9D command

A switch to htmlfontify might end up in rewriting a good part of
htmlfontify or some very ugly hacks.


If Hrvoje Niksic has or is willing to sign the copyright assignment
documents it will be easier to put htmlize.el into Emacs.


Best regards
Robert




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Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free
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Le mardi 18 septembre 2018 =C3=A0 11:37 +0200, Nicolas Goaziou a =C3=A9crit=
 :
> I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand
> exactly the issue risen.

Actually, it's an ethical issue. That are not always easily solved with
technical solutions, I guess=E2=80=A6

> From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's
> the real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library
> from the error message and be done with it.

Indeed.

> Note that the Org manual still talks about iOS and Android, which are
> not free either.

It's true. I don't know what to think about this.


--=20
| Num=C3=A9rion                  |              Nicolas Floquet |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Services informatiques en logiciels libres               |
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 on Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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> From: Nicolas Goaziou <mail@HIDDEN>
> Cc: rms@HIDDEN,  kaushal.modi@HIDDEN,  n@HIDDEN,  32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:37:15 +0200
> 
> This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to
> solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give
> them a hand?

From my POV, the immediate problem is to switch Org-publish from using
htmlize to htmlfontify.  Can this be done, please?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32722: [O] bug#32722: 26.1;
 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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Hello,

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers
> before I make up my mind.

I read the thread multiple times already but I do not understand exactly
the issue risen.

From the OP: "Emacs quotes Github, a non-free platform." If that's the
real problem, we can remove the location of the "htmlize" library from
the error message and be done with it. Note that the Org manual still
talks about iOS and Android, which are not free either.

From Richard Stallman: "Emacs should not advise people to load anything
from outside Emacs". Org Export already advises people to load LaTeX
libraries, MathJax, optionally minted, etc. Org Babel requires external
libraries like "asy-mode.el" (ob-asymptote.el), "simple-httpd"
(ob-js.el)... This is a non-issue for us, because it is inherent to Org
and thus cannot be solved by Org.

From Glenn Morris: "Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2. Is
there some obstacle to Org using that?" This is begging for a specific
solution to a not-so-well defined problem. In any case, Kaushal Modi
answered this one. It is nice if this happens, but could we first define
correctly the problem so we can tell if this is the only possible
solution for it?

From Richard Stallman: "To motivate people to do this, I say we should
not ship another release with that reference to GitHub." The issue
pointed out here seems to be that Org developers or enthusiasts are not
motivated enough to make Org use htmlfontify instead of htmlize. Note
this is very different from the initial report. Richard Stallman then
suggests a possible fix for that issue. It may or may not work; after
all these years spent in education, "motivating people" is a topic that
mostly eludes me. Anyway, since this point contains both the question
and the answer, I don't know what Org could do about it.

This is a genuine question: what /exactly/ do you want Org developers to
solve, assuming they can? Also, if they cannot, who is willing to give
them a hand?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou                                                0x80A93738




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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> From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 22:55:15 -0400
> Cc: n@HIDDEN, 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mail@HIDDEN
> 
>   > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's
>   > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify
>   > instead of htmlize.
> 
> To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another
> release with that reference to GitHub.  Eli, do you agree?

This is an Org issue, so I would like to hear from Org developers
before I make up my mind.




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bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > >From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's
  > just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify
  > instead of htmlize.

To motivate people to do this, I say we shouild not ship another
release with that reference to GitHub.  Eli, do you agree?


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






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(htmlize-buffer-substring-no-invisible b e)

is this function available in emacs?

if not, it would be good to extract it and put it in emacs, or write
one for emacs.


On 9/13/18, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@HIDDEN> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2.
>> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506)
>
> This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list.
>
> From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's
> just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify
> instead of htmlize.
>
>


--=20
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The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. And ANYBODY
can get it at any time.

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by neglect." ---
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On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2.
> Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506)

This has been discussed before on the Org mailing list.

From what I remember, there is not objection to use that instead; it's
just that someone has to work on converting ox-html to use htmlfontify
instead of htmlize.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

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Richard Stallman wrote:

> If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs.
> Is there some obstacle to that?

Emacs already includes htmlfontify, since 23.2.
Is there some obstacle to Org using that? (bug#7506)




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
From: Nicolas Floquet <n@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 18:48 +0300, Eli Zaretskii a écrit :
> Could you please report this to the Org developers? Thanks.

It's done. Thanks.

Le mercredi 12 septembre 2018 à 23:35 -0400, Richard Stallman a écrit :
> Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs
> (counting ELPA).  So this needs to be deleted.
> 
> If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs.
> Is there some obstacle to that?

Thank you rms.


-- 
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| Services informatiques en logiciels libres               |
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Emacs should not advise people to load anything from outside Emacs
(counting ELPA).  So this needs to be deleted.

If htmlize is useful, we should put it into Emacs.
Is there some obstacle to that?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs,org-mode. Full text available.

Message received at 32722 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#32722: 26.1; Org-publish depend on non-free platform ?
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> From: Nicolas Floquet <n@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 16:06:05 +0200
> 
> I don't understand why Emacs quote Github, a non-free platform, when I
> want to publish my org-blog :

Could you please report this to the Org developers?

Thanks.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Hello.

I don't understand why Emacs quote Github, a non-free platform, when I
want to publish my org-blog :

M-x org-publish-all
[=E2=80=A6]
Publishing file home/nico/Documents/Travaux/.nico/www/Tutoriels/Emacs/org-m=
ode-listes-de-taches.org using =E2=80=98org-html-publish-to-html=E2=80=99
org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 2237...
org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 2786...
org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 3397...
org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 3846...
org-babel-exp process org at position 4931...
org-html-fontify-code: Please install htmlize from https://github.com/hniks=
ic/emacs-htmlize

Surely, I think I should editing my former publications to pass Emacs
25.1 to Emacs 26.1. But I also think that Emacs must not quote GitHub.


Thank you for everything done.
Et vive le Logiciel Libre ! ^^

--=20
| Num=C3=A9rion                  |              Nicolas Floquet |
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Acknowledgement sent to Nicolas Floquet <n@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#32722; Package emacs. Full text available.
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