GNU bug report logs - #32845
guix.info: Missing manual

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org
Subject: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:33:16 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

The manual is missing from https://guix.info/manual/.

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

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Message #8 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
Cc: 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 20:01:47 +0200

Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz> writes:

> The manual is missing from https://guix.info/manual/.

It’s actually available at https://guix.info/manual/en/ and
https://guix.info/manual/fr/.

The index is missing, though.

--
Ricardo

Message #11 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
Cc: 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:44:02 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Then we need to update the links on https://guix.info/help/.
I think the Savannah version is not in sync with those localized manuals.

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

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Message #14 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
Cc: 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 22:10:10 +0200

Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz> writes:

> Then we need to update the links on https://guix.info/help/.
> I think the Savannah version is not in sync with those localized manuals.

Indeed.  The problem here is that the documentation is not actually part
of our website build.  It is part of the GNU-hosted manuals.

The copy at guix.info does not use the same gnu.org/software/guix
prefix, so all links to the manual are likely wrong.

This needs to be fixed in our website code, so that the same code works
for both sites.

--
Ricardo

Message #17 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
Cc: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:46:23 +0200

Hello,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net> skribis:

> The copy at guix.info does not use the same gnu.org/software/guix
> prefix, so all links to the manual are likely wrong.
>
> This needs to be fixed in our website code, so that the same code works
> for both sites.

I wonder what should be done with guix.info: should we keep it as a
mirror, or should it redirect to gnu.org, or the opposite?

My initial plan was to use guix.gnu.org as the primary domain but we’re
stuck with the “Let’s Encrypt vs. multiple entries in DNS A records”
issue.  At the same time, guix.info works just fine.

Thoughts?

Ludo’.

Message #20 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
To: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:28:32 +0200

Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net> skribis:
>
>> The copy at guix.info does not use the same gnu.org/software/guix
>> prefix, so all links to the manual are likely wrong.
>>
>> This needs to be fixed in our website code, so that the same code works
>> for both sites.
>
> I wonder what should be done with guix.info: should we keep it as a
> mirror, or should it redirect to gnu.org, or the opposite?

I really don’t know.  I didn’t plan for guix.info to become popular, but
it certainly is convenient right now as we can change DNS records at a
whim.

Currently, the manual shown on guix.info is fairly close to the latest
in git.  This means it contains documentation about channels, which
cannot be found in the latest release that matches the manual on
gnu.org.

> My initial plan was to use guix.gnu.org as the primary domain but we’re
> stuck with the “Let’s Encrypt vs. multiple entries in DNS A records”
> issue.  At the same time, guix.info works just fine.

I thought the bigger issue was running a DNS server, which is something
I’ve never done and wouldn’t like to take on myself.

The problem with naive Let’s Encrypt updates is that automatic
challenges might fail when the “wrong” server is returned by the DNS
server.  “certbot” can be used with manual DNS validation, which
requires us to deploy a DNS TXT record.  This can be automated with
certbot hooks (scripts that have access to the token that should be
published via environment variables) or through JSON mode, which returns
an object with the token that can be processed through other means.

I think the Let’s Encrypt updates shouldn’t be a blocker.

--
Ricardo

Message #23 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
Cc: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:37:45 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

> Currently, the manual shown on guix.info is fairly close to the latest
> in git.  This means it contains documentation about channels, which
> cannot be found in the latest release that matches the manual on
> gnu.org.

This is crucial, I believe.  I believe.  "Static" documentation is a Bad Idea.
I think the manual is better than a wiki, but only if contributors can work on
it "live".

-- 
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #26 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
Cc: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:03:25 +0200

Hello!

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org> writes:

[...]

>> I wonder what should be done with guix.info: should we keep it as a
>> mirror, or should it redirect to gnu.org, or the opposite?
>
> I really don’t know.  I didn’t plan for guix.info to become popular, but
> it certainly is convenient right now as we can change DNS records at a
> whim.
>
> Currently, the manual shown on guix.info is fairly close to the latest
> in git.  This means it contains documentation about channels, which
> cannot be found in the latest release that matches the manual on
> gnu.org.

Yes, it’s convenient.

>> My initial plan was to use guix.gnu.org as the primary domain but we’re
>> stuck with the “Let’s Encrypt vs. multiple entries in DNS A records”
>> issue.  At the same time, guix.info works just fine.
>
> I thought the bigger issue was running a DNS server, which is something
> I’ve never done and wouldn’t like to take on myself.

I’ve never done it either :-) but our Knot service makes it looks easy.

> The problem with naive Let’s Encrypt updates is that automatic
> challenges might fail when the “wrong” server is returned by the DNS
> server.  “certbot” can be used with manual DNS validation, which
> requires us to deploy a DNS TXT record.  This can be automated with
> certbot hooks (scripts that have access to the token that should be
> published via environment variables) or through JSON mode, which returns
> an object with the token that can be processed through other means.

I didn’t know about all this!  Looks like our Certbot service doesn’t
support it though?

> I think the Let’s Encrypt updates shouldn’t be a blocker.

To me it was the main blocker.

Let’s see if we can bring more knowledgeable people on board…

Ludo’.

Message #29 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>
Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:08:16 +0200

Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz> skribis:

>> Currently, the manual shown on guix.info is fairly close to the latest
>> in git.  This means it contains documentation about channels, which
>> cannot be found in the latest release that matches the manual on
>> gnu.org.
>
> This is crucial, I believe.  I believe.  "Static" documentation is a Bad Idea.
> I think the manual is better than a wiki, but only if contributors can work on
> it "live".

One obvious problem with documentation on the web is that it’s hard to
tell if it matches the version of what you’re actually using.  (That’s
one of the reasons for the “Documentation” section in the manual.)

The only reason IMO that justifies keeping “static” documentation (for
the latest release) is the installation instructions: these may change
anytime in ‘master’, but it’s important that those on-line match what
people will actually download.

Thoughts?

Ludo’.

Message #32 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
To: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>, Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>,
 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:39:21 +0200

Ludo', Guix,

Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net> skribis:
>> “certbot” can be used with manual DNS validation, which
>> requires us to deploy a DNS TXT record.  This can be automated 
>> with
>> certbot hooks (scripts that have access to the token that 
>> should be
>> published via environment variables) or through JSON mode, 
>> which returns
>> an object with the token that can be processed through other 
>> means.
>
> I didn’t know about all this!  Looks like our Certbot service 
> doesn’t
> support it though?

Not out of the box, and last time I checked vanilla certbot didn't 
provide an nsupdate (RFC2136) hook alongside all the DNSaaS API 
rubbish.

But it's certainly possible, and wonderfully stable once set 
up. t.gr runs entirely on GuixSD + Knot + DNS-validated LE certs.

Kind regards,

T G-R

Message #35 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: ludo <at> gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès)
To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
Cc: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>, Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>,
 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 18:14:36 +0200

Hi Tobias,

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr> skribis:

> Ludovic Courtès wrote:
>> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net> skribis:
>>> “certbot” can be used with manual DNS validation, which
>>> requires us to deploy a DNS TXT record.  This can be automated with
>>> certbot hooks (scripts that have access to the token that should be
>>> published via environment variables) or through JSON mode, which
>>> returns
>>> an object with the token that can be processed through other means.
>>
>> I didn’t know about all this!  Looks like our Certbot service
>> doesn’t
>> support it though?
>
> Not out of the box, and last time I checked vanilla certbot didn't
> provide an nsupdate (RFC2136) hook alongside all the DNSaaS API
> rubbish.
>
> But it's certainly possible, and wonderfully stable once set up. t.gr
> runs entirely on GuixSD + Knot + DNS-validated LE certs.

Neat.  Would you like to help come up with a Knot & Certbot config for
guix.gnu.org?  :-)

The peculiarity is this:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
$ getent hosts guix.gnu.org
141.80.181.40   guix.gnu.org
185.233.100.56  guix.gnu.org
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Ludo’.

Message #38 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado <at> elephly.net>
To: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Pierre Neidhardt <mail <at> ambrevar.xyz>, 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:38:08 +0200

Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> The problem with naive Let’s Encrypt updates is that automatic
>> challenges might fail when the “wrong” server is returned by the DNS
>> server.  “certbot” can be used with manual DNS validation, which
>> requires us to deploy a DNS TXT record.  This can be automated with
>> certbot hooks (scripts that have access to the token that should be
>> published via environment variables) or through JSON mode, which returns
>> an object with the token that can be processed through other means.
>
> I didn’t know about all this!  Looks like our Certbot service doesn’t
> support it though?

That’s right.  The question is what we want to do in the auth hook when
this is performed in the service.  We could just punt and have the user
supply the path to a custom hook script.

> Let’s see if we can bring more knowledgeable people on board…

Yes please! :)

--
Ricardo

Message #41 received at 32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: sirgazil <sirgazil <at> zoho.com>
To: "32845" <32845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 13:00:26 -0500

The "https://guix.info/manual/" currently redirects to "https://guix.gnu.org/manual/", which links to the manual in different languages.

Problem solved?

Message #44 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ludovic Courtès <ludo <at> gnu.org>
To: sirgazil via Bug reports for GNU Guix <bug-guix <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 32845 <32845-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, sirgazil <sirgazil <at> zoho.com>
Subject: Re: bug#32845: guix.info: Missing manual
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 11:28:15 +0100

Hi,

sirgazil via Bug reports for GNU Guix <bug-guix <at> gnu.org> skribis:

> The "https://guix.info/manual/" currently redirects to "https://guix.gnu.org/manual/", which links to the manual in different languages.
>
> Problem solved?

I think so, thanks!

Ludo’.

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