GNU bug report logs - #33577
doc: mention find/stat in ls documentation

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Package: coreutils; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>; Keywords: notabug; dated Sun, 2 Dec 2018 11:01:02 UTC; Maintainer for coreutils is bug-coreutils@HIDDEN.
Changed bug title to 'doc: mention find/stat in ls documentation' from 'ls lacks null terminator option' Request was from Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Added tag(s) notabug. Request was from Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
To: =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= <jidanni@HIDDEN>,
 Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>
References: <87efb0td2l.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <20181203121251120264709@HIDDEN> <877egpkp36.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <a8b140f8-4c5a-fd6a-db4f-79f7ffd6ded0@HIDDEN>
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From: Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
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tags 33577 notabug
severity 33577 wishlist
retitle 33577 doc: mention find/stat in ls documentation
stop

Hello,

On 2018-12-05 4:39 a.m., 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Fine. Put a message on top of (info "(coreutils) ls invocation")
> saying that your pipes are better.

Given the suggested solution from Bob and Bernhard,
I'm marking this as a wishlish (todo) item
to improve ls's documentation.

regards,
  - assaf







Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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Subject: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
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The output from stat(1) can be controlled, and is therefore easier
to parse than ls's human-friendly output, IMO.

Regards - Peter




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From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
References: <87efb0td2l.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Fine. Put a message on top of (info "(coreutils) ls invocation")
saying that your pipes are better.




Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

Message received at 33577 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
To: =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= <jidanni@HIDDEN>,
 Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
References: <87efb0td2l.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <20181203121251120264709@HIDDEN> <877egpkp36.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 11:25:29 +0100
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On 12/4/18 9:35 PM, 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Bob, I remember from my K&R Unix book that ls can be used in scripts.
> In fact that is why
> $ ls
> acts different than
> $ ls | cat
> 
> Plus there are lots of things ls can do that find cannot.
> 
> For instance sorting.

You didn't mention sorting in your original post, but actually that's a
typical post-action which can be glued together the UNIX way via pipes,
using the decorate-process-undecorate pattern:

  $ find -printf '%T@:%p\0' | sort -znr | cut -zd: -f2- | $PRG

with e.g.
  PRG='head -zn1'
to get the newest file.

And yes, if you really want to cater for arbitrary file names with blanks,
newlines, and control character - short: everything apart from '/' and '\0',
or more malicious file names e.g. starting with '-' or '--' to fool scripts,
then it is quite complex by nature to get it right: think about what
you have to do in the consuming $PRG to perform the processing safely.

> Are you saying you want to enhance find(1) to sort its output?

No, because that what 'sort' is for.

Have a nice day,
Berny




Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
To: Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
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Are you saying you want to enhance find(1) to sort its output?




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bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
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Don't let that ls colors stuff fool you. It originally didn't have that.




Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
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(Probably The Unix Programming Environment by K & P.)




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bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
To: Bob Proulx <bob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
References: <87efb0td2l.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Bob, I remember from my K&R Unix book that ls can be used in scripts.
In fact that is why
$ ls
acts different than
$ ls | cat

Plus there are lots of things ls can do that find cannot.

For instance sorting.

How are you going to do
$ ls -t
with find?




Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

Message received at 33577 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#33577: ls lacks null terminator option
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積丹尼 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> For files with blanks in their names,
> one shouldn't need this workaround:
> $ ls -t | tr \\n \\0 | xargs -0 more > /tmp/z.txt
> Please add a --print0 option. like find(1) has.

I think that adding a --print0 option to 'ls' is not wise because it
would suggest to people seeing it that 'ls' should be used in scripts.
But 'ls' is a command designed for human interaction not for use in
scripts.  Using 'find' for scripted use is the desired utility.

Such a patch has previously been submitted.

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2014-02/msg00005.html

Bob




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bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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Subject: ls lacks null terminator option
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For files with blanks in their names,
one shouldn't need this workaround:
$ ls -t | tr \\n \\0 | xargs -0 more > /tmp/z.txt
Please add a --print0 option. like find(1) has.

ls (GNU coreutils) 8.30




Acknowledgement sent to 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#33577; Package coreutils. Full text available.
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