Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs@HIDDEN>
to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2019 13:00:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 08 08:00:27 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44928 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iT3sI-00055Z-Tx for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 08:00:27 -0500 Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:44016) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iT3sE-00055C-6G; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 08:00:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=SMxfw4c5frKqkEPLEZ9wdrlL/nG3QNwG8TETenxOVlA=; b=fpvYdNrn2IBLlaczzMX5ecnNGS FDnKBiHZXozPiAWTK5xOH+DyRXkIzg/k8tcRIxA7bHA05jKcUqOrVRq25mQJ7FzXRvITFw9BejsLw 4teubZEIbWQS7buUI3SelTnV5sabI67cuIKYKxDMJkL4MSobPQvi1G2RBef/VDiCI9b4=; Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:57690 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <stefan@HIDDEN>) id 1iT3s3-0003r5-RV; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 07:00:12 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures In-Reply-To: <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> (Boruch Baum's message of "Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:29 -0400") References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 14:00:09 +0100 Message-ID: <87h83etteu.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@HIDDEN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 34338 - wontfix reopen 34338 thanks Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > On 2019-10-30 23:52, Stefan Kangas wrote: >> Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> Do you have a use-case in mind here? Can't the caller just check using >> 'file-exists-p' if it matters instead? > > It _should_ *always* matter. Did you delete the file or not? If it didn't > matter, why waste your time attempting the deletion? I think Eli answered this point well, and I still think a use-case would have been helpful here. If I was trying to convince people to spend time on this, I would try to provide a code example where the suggested change would simplify the code and/or make maintenance easier. > Having delete-file return the value is: a) consistent with what I think > is the expectation of most CS folks; Not sure if I'm like most CS folks, but that wasn't my expectation. IME, this works differently in different languages. > b) the most efficient, since it already knows the exact point of any > failure, and basically just passes the return value it gets from the > underlying OS. That's a good point. In any case, I closed the bug in the belief that there was nothing more to do here given the lack of response. I'm not against the change as such. I've therefore reopened the bug in the hope that someone would want to take a crack at implementing this. Boruch, perhaps you could consider volunteering? Best regards, Stefan Kangas
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2019 09:55:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 01 05:55:24 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55058 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQTeO-0001QK-6x for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:55:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQTeL-0001Q2-UJ for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:55:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46007) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQTeE-0007LE-22; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:55:14 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1813 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQTeC-0004lq-Pv; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:55:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:55:15 +0200 Message-Id: <838sozncos.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <20191101093423.q6qm3eijb6ilrkpg@HIDDEN> (message from Boruch Baum on Fri, 1 Nov 2019 05:34:23 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> <83h83pnfyq.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191101093423.q6qm3eijb6ilrkpg@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 05:34:23 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > Cc: stefan@HIDDEN, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2019-10-31 16:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > The current implementation basically is a moral equivalent of "rm -f". > > It also is biased towards interactive usage, where the return value is > > not very important. > > > > Does it answer your question? > > Not satisfactorily. Actually, from what you wrote, it follows that it did answer your question, you just disagree that delete-file should have been coded to work as it does. Please note that I didn't try to justify its behavior, only to explain its rationale, in response to your question "If it didn't matter, why waste your time attempting the deletion?" IOW, there certainly _are_ valid use cases where "it doesn't matter", and the fact that "rm -f" exists is an evidence.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2019 09:34:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 01 05:34:41 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQTKL-0000sq-2k for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:34:41 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:43595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1iQTKI-0000sb-DQ for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 05:34:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572600870; bh=3o9Qm8qQuYjBLXts933ajBYdvBXMRS3l0PpO/KDWnPo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=hCZ0bnOhSLRxVPRHWJLBOoiwFEGORV1R4wDBxmgyjSxTWkunJGEgJCZLURvVZpvyJ LPd7Rd2p1iOtVaxV5GwpJoTZ3E077YpbMBpJXTWnkVPLiSmL23JQWtQcrUuys5+Mr5 8nS5OL8mYGJd1iaG659IwCsVryGWR4f7Kem9DYMU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([96.246.226.236]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MrhQ6-1heyx73wKC-00nlTB; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 10:34:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 05:34:23 -0400 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20191101093423.q6qm3eijb6ilrkpg@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> <83h83pnfyq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83h83pnfyq.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zho9tByaQgKFv65uZ5/FdhWegd/03b+foABF8X34AVto3fh7mIX Kq5yoHyQBKe6uKMlRoGgmn/X0jxJ+Mykt1/WTbaYMTstrUM1JMmKQyt+V3ewH6g3F9X6mDy kuZh4Uq0eTVqQsfcIOgW0F1mOvlb/SKK4DShh4TCXCHXHQRaMdwY7ZaoOLFA4k/9luGFZ9F QTlED3WECquEOhN/5yx7w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:KEmT/iitStE=:QI9TpeVm95mppxbn5g4Urd V+Fvy2dLme26FI98NZ4ziJaLb4sGsaMQejjhs7Kolan0unsIZJe8qgqYr639xBmlYoGgkdFA3 xxekD9WTvysr6bqbw3u4xh4eY0+kShBv7VWmthkh/euQoQ6UCEa3keu06UW2wPvSns4DIqy/Y FPZoSEyhAaQv5FO2Oa6MWOqBI/NlVazcc+2VFwF1deB3bZq/gA+pSRfNJfIizh8PP81W2sn2z rpiXRW49XypkC2vaPg3QIcuWHtdKNrLFXD5/zHj5M+wAi8qRUyjiBuqJEuulzaTXYdOj5r+Xv oYPIDTyfOahk3jilRd7UMVxaebx10fec11nmjPxdbEVp1lDr1R8Q5oZriHtbPn8yXfF46WqIL 0A5ayNjKEoTRWbnUFE0qmK+9F1ybJdfU3vZzY5P+E+U6nwdDlXNZOIEzRFbbcBUERWHItghHD gtTGtM0mhMMWWSSQn2hrI1ZQ0mQ39JmQ2G/WRUs6VC7S4q8Nlx/ZZfMDNUcgEQizQvk7r9yH+ oOlyB6o9SWCas9l+QFvWcITsmGrA4Ha241vaiIjROiRkQVHZ79YXNNO4tMlIQu0E/He1DYiDr +Ax/cjvnBy+WkNuiMBjNVsEuE9GNrqNkLDWeFpjxsIxQTZYTxxjfIIwVne9Rb64jhAKsOBFSk icCndP1xTVQpnQDmkkYJnQ1v35PMFR9urdbn+Jm8lDOl6ZMfQDgYY/SUCd5JJW4nF3Rn35Vkp RyMhsPkhnNiefSgpn0YvhF6Y3scNvX8lJP5wK3GZs2AaopT/84Vn53VhHpF5BefZN+ujuPybu RflStd09pmXn4i8QQwuwGIIfSAEa4qfPKKVSQ2MYw3foBB05QsbY2LqtCHMZKZ8aD8tvVAczz v6cwqnXQFtTRaq1XITgs86lyYD0qj1wucuiWGaLEFlgMhThOZTrJobvoHMnvrKE8oB57XJc2E /MYsIjV0D1a/ed8WUTZY1eygg63qwMj6b4UflXA0Eo3AMptbEIZuOrAFFAZD44qLFvGswN3ay irItoylFRjOObAWdNXK2Z9hkH3K47gIxW0crSDHEsgFLebuz9Q5XXzfvCe8H4BFJLxL3A4XjK JJmCkS0rr/85v8K8ocKG3Mn1OkEXbqHeTK3+WHXRlIrqM+qUB1bZvznWkKiSy4u+a+Kw9OkwW zhL1kZAMZCXVzJEXdXyHret0Rb9JRpTXxtsuJ0yfWu/ghkYDaJb9FM9+M5MTmCmSp6Kx/61aX zU/N7pEyeIR3d6Gwr7uzG/fP1XG64kQlsrQjgurcVSA8VwVbz5Yzy3VFcSOM= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2019-10-31 16:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The current implementation basically is a moral equivalent of "rm -f". > It also is biased towards interactive usage, where the return value is > not very important. > > Does it answer your question? Not satisfactorily. Applying the notion of '_moral_ equivalence' to a programming command option strikes me as alien, but as an exercise, the only _moral_ standard that I've come up with for "rm -f" is an immoral standard of inconsiderateness. What I mean is that someone at some time put some sort of block on deleting a file, and you're saying that emacs as its *default* action is to inconsiderately try to do its best to ignore any such block. As an issue in _morality_, it sounds quite inconsiderate and thus presumably undesirable if one's decision-basis is some form of morality. Independent of morality, it's also inconsistent with the default behavior of comparable programming contexts, and thus violates POLA (principle of least astonishment). For example, compare the default action of the written command delete-file with your own expressed basis ... the shell command rm, run interactively from the command line. A better comparison basis would be other forms of lisp. Rabbi Google tells me that both common-lisp and scheme signal an error on failure. The only other lisp I have handy to try is another GNU lisp, guile 2.0.13, which also does not signal an error on a file marked 'chmod -w'. Outside of lisp, python behaves similarly. So that's several POLA points in emacs' favor. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2019 14:32:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 31 10:32:23 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQBUt-0007cz-34 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:32:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQBUr-0007ZG-I3 for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:32:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54275) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQBUk-0002iA-EO; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:32:14 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2133 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQBUi-0004bY-Mu; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:32:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 16:32:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83h83pnfyq.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:29 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:29 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > Do you have a use-case in mind here? Can't the caller just check using > > 'file-exists-p' if it matters instead? > > It _should_ *always* matter. Did you delete the file or not? If it didn't > matter, why waste your time attempting the deletion? The current implementation basically is a moral equivalent of "rm -f". It also is biased towards interactive usage, where the return value is not very important. Does it answer your question?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2019 14:01:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 31 10:01:24 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53886 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iQB0t-00048Y-M7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:01:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQB0r-00042w-Dg for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:01:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQB0l-0002Ep-MK; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:01:15 -0400 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4224 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1iQB0k-00085q-NR; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 10:01:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 16:01:15 +0200 Message-Id: <83r22tnhec.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:00 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:00 -0400 > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > How is it backwards incompatable? If the prior behavior was undefined, > no one would have been using it for anything. From their perspective, a > defined is just another form of undefined behavior, if you get my drift. My "backward-incompatible" response was only related to your suggestion to signal an error when a file doesn't exist, and/or modify the function's signature in incompatible ways. I didn't object to making this function return a meaningful value, if the argument list remains compatible, i.e. if existing code doesn't need to change. However, if we make the function return meaningful values, we must make sure it always does so, and in consistent manner. For example, the file handlers should be documented to return the same values (and existing handlers should be modified to actually do so), moving the file to trash, whether via a system-dependent primitive or application code in files.el, should return the same value for the same conditions, etc.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2019 01:33:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 30 21:33:52 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51960 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iPzLU-0003av-2X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:52 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:59551) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1iPzLP-0003ad-RB for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572485617; bh=ZCpFWs8K1mnzXs1tB5bfn1EAsKzmAt3qN9mfW3tu0xw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=D7nD8Cj6cZ4zkNiO7KJsTF50wc0/1sgMmuAWhMBhPzfUCLrwYu12f6DhScGI1w8Tn urpMYFPvrRliJMqV9XdtpJ73tl6eyNlXqldNG/DmxMyx9STSgq0OkmBGARYEr/sDYO gyWhlgiHXhffmMrlB1QTUYaUM4hMA8VUEP4XP4HE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([96.246.226.236]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N8ob6-1hvttZ3p5C-015qWh; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 02:33:37 +0100 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 21:33:29 -0400 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20191031012641.lam4pwo3cenf7tsu@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RY9/ZCoKimVoARrsp9vvUdCh06BDipnUSD4MQJEzBl/f2rHZZgh puM76kW/NKtI2dIHhd60fk05UCS3aWiOeAzDwSTFIuO2yAbwx0ABEoh/L9rIwrLyyT9Ff55 ofgr3ITJeIDzgHgTqhogvvvSDACgO3y58/7ccy7mpvuUbS7jpPju0giLS7q50392UocSLtx iW4S7KZgP7ACmAcJS//oA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:umDrt2jVwPU=:ASqy1a7HJCKH4OK1MKRRpP ORKFjb9orQPziRg2Jk2q6lm9ds1QNntF0YSwPY0iWxt1bpzrPQzq8GPGj9qaOLf7MIw+72nSZ PwM0IKlCmA1r0v+0nlRuu5kSEIiJ7nuEf3FUHTfnaKa/hHuF6XOaq4xerXkJIwBGnIVrH2TA/ IJY8TX8M0nwZhvox/J6w7WqicIpKvtsYffhgtE+ut4PFubLOcm18lxbHDq4uHCWge/ilhW4RU DklhJ5GiLdRtQvBgnZ0cWnvu7zXayU9Lm309fddWeg1X5ZueTNSwZm+HGYo+HLqbTv3IVxahA jmwaB00mT6R0IQC5+z44j1ptgxm8mQcm+psMGOn3B3qkVe87ZG+l2zIJRvFm5jCuE/HvclWsJ VXIsBf/AufJpmb1bYuAO0c8T9DZwfscOrE1LkY4JjHgtfdZH7m2xOQ3Cc/tLDfIeY6mtd5IoO 2jzCy+b75B0OLBl0RF/AsZ1lnt0IOYe+oJREBcvWG5pOuGkeLZsmNz3CaB2FO12jtUHrbdqkF stsizyjHKSyeV5Ldv1utJ/t2MWhm4r5+ORdQcxXf0QWWHojuaqudYgznBg/qW1FaQf8XaCfME VLu96IhQMMheOfEGjCN0jLxRkabZrODcVMVxnaCV+JEz+IPqJcLRIn7ugTHZCg8NFx5475qIZ Bny4gKzSG2NueomiYvGLzsJvwKOHu4kpTARA0sQHahYWS1+X7oH04mCAJ2LjMWmJoaceOKznm kof2G1OLOGES5LyvAyN5+MAx1Su4R69dOs0r24Nw9x7tfAJJK6RV9/nCJka1W7uBrUGvrHw0w wvpZ63scp808Atjn3lX46O2D2PrlmMV20z6eAuAd3kJ/e/VacBs0TnGHWvtLkGcs1N9iMUIWl I/m02H4jKxNyb4YfNiRsRzjbsH/y3iUwYUi/AgRIpnZ7XWXuocTIq+rHqmGeQk7jaPpQun0Oz zHZc0jjo68bkvzHlZEg1jOvak8amw59AHYy0wXXemJ4Gn/OMn4hq7pXssm1gufTflLcogX8YT AG5ZUpS/q4/7zBzPKakcnK2fD9BprDX2TWRNFQQr/WzXoZB5VRhBvZQ09vXECS7nB9GaufGvp xT7xLCw2e5RuD/ZLCfaMw1dJuQeeP0ft1fgqhHOuTPWTe9v21QwTfSJNzG3iL2PXCJ5yaxQ6n 94xdbhQJXpduHrYJJM2svEGWPIZDTHyld1Nf06lO2dqSj36XKS4rYWa5TUQ2mSijJfV7xMxuR 2tHFpP4lIC6H2cr1l8zzymoNtoI6r1IBC5EOC/x4n1NaH3WHZXMGs0Uy0uBY= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2019-10-30 23:52, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > > Do you have a use-case in mind here? Can't the caller just check using > 'file-exists-p' if it matters instead? It _should_ *always* matter. Did you delete the file or not? If it didn't matter, why waste your time attempting the deletion? Having delete-file return the value is: a) consistent with what I think is the expectation of most CS folks; b) the most efficient, since it already knows the exact point of any failure, and basically just passes the return value it gets from the underlying OS. =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2019 22:53:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 30 18:53:11 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iPwpz-0005t3-2G for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:53:11 -0400 Received: from giraff.fripost.org ([193.234.15.44]:42414 helo=outgoing.fripost.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <skangas@HIDDEN>) id 1iPwpw-0005sk-C6 for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:53:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7904C187EB06; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:53:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=x.fripost.org; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:date:references:subject:subject:from:from; s= 9df9cdc7e101629b5003b587945afa70; t=1572475982; x=1574290383; bh=jTtt2WlUy7BIwwmrPK+boOfldEAV8lhQBnJSk0QkG1c=; b=FZiUEHhkE26P /3AwwLRryCOsJAu83tQ5imnHEMJ7CJiU5FEsuc4Eq6tXKz1SQY9uW4aatBQzywkM /UmjCf7/rI5ufTWMvLcClAyUGcVKgkqpBkQT1MHPcpRntF/1+IehSEUslrGK18/U DCqkQSBMq2XY+ExRdoNMfcYvqBDjX58Q8afgCExz4CeWTdWnOZIfIM3UIopIWJo4 1LOVmYyAz8MFlXH9l2SGm9sZ1JXLtpxGcj3YNjgGe0W7/eojzHMe0twTWW7IBJnG /+WbjciU06+X6jfe8SJJ2jeIBrTeyHc/KJ3OTHah5iVo25H/qhHCUc4EgBZDMQ/a QZ/9MsVrjg== X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at fripost.org Received: from outgoing.fripost.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (giraff.fripost.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10040) with LMTP id ptQtY_PCmfGz; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:53:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.fripost.org (unknown [172.16.0.6]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC20187EB02; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:53:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by smtp.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2BCE59A027A; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:53:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from skangas by joffe.skangas.se with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <skangas@HIDDEN>) id 1iPwpe-0006eC-Qe; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:52:50 +0100 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:52:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> (Boruch Baum's message of "Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:00 -0400") Message-ID: <875zk5x2v1.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > How is it backwards incompatable? If the prior behavior was undefined, > no one would have been using it for anything. From their perspective, a > defined is just another form of undefined behavior, if you get my drift. Having re-read the entire discussion, I think that we should perhaps clarify what we're talking about. Your proposal had three different parts to it AFAICT: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > B1) return t on success Eli said that: "The function's return value is not documented, which is an indication that it is 'not useful'." Do you have a use-case in mind here? Can't the caller just check using 'file-exists-p' if it matters instead? > B2) raise an error when (not NOERROR) and: > > B2.1) file doesn't exist > > B2.2) (and (chmod -w) (not FORCE)) > > B2.3) another form of permission denial is encountered Eli replied: "In any case, you propose a backward-incompatible change in behavior, so it won't fly. We could perhaps do it the other way around: add a new optional argument ERROR-OUT, which, when non-nil, will cause the function to signal an error when B2.1 or B2.2 happen (I believe B2.3 already causes an error). And similarly with FORCE." I'm not against this part, but again I'm not sure what is the use-case here. And what about having the caller use 'file-exists-p' instead? > B3) return nil when NOERROR and: > > B2.1) file doesn't exist > > B2.2) another form of permission denial is encountered I guess the inverted version of the above makes sense (return nil unless ERROR-OUT), iff we add B1 and B2. > C) maybe log the exact error or reason for nil to *Messages*. This part was agreed to be left out already, and I agree. Best regards, Stefan Kangas
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2019 22:22:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 30 18:22:17 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51773 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iPwM5-00030m-4B for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:17 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:39175) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1iPwM1-00030S-Ov for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1572474125; bh=uCPV58E5b6zjlZv2hwzZ0bjfRjWMWZiIKFZVKYNBtkg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=fljd7EH6D1iArrsjeNnndJhd+vaBrwGAaejr0ZHPG1lpnMyOWxJ/EwhadTT3ze77Z I/2l+IZ9O2ViNGzzHYPeWmbAupoDEZMMTeXtfV1W8YF1BgG+gW44hvoPA2EF8HMx0o nJf9mYBbnZRfpGoE7X2kxPiH/9srx6iAUxVL/4jE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([96.246.226.236]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MvbFs-1i961T1UUI-00sci9; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 23:22:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 18:22:00 -0400 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20191030222159.rwfn7clgfjh36dze@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+TxQWZu0w69jxTm8CjfGBpK7kn0cwWrddWVKhPxIq6n16P54Jlr 9m0dkhzoZXh1gGqNznw8xTOXjZLueT9/b8az6FYeRc1nQpDsgQ6n/HxeFMHdfaEZPEd1+0l uHE1iqfsm/xAtWnNyyIXBRUPN3ivXfBU+p1UoriVr8JzLpcd+pHQyM6UXtVdPjPj7JUbJAM DEaYS8Uy141ApkyQLTaSA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:AgQW9VsQWNs=:yW5wFPmzdOPjKzP8XX/dfb cvdnI8s55xBLZ/xVFRBXFfEIt5x5cK/XwAh/LqWCDLXWHUDafZh44dQ0Zk+JsfvgzXyn3vUjQ tRWMA8S5nurS+k3BAWaQ9fcHmTdvQvhcEsH8ckxD4X7x9UVw79lb6VPCO8VJvd8D8zSbxHn8v dHw7u1tH1ksZrJnEOET1FP0WgrqktjKu3u4Weo5nulaTRc4Yc5hMWsjJkdqB51eL+ecamj1Ac /RHaBxN65aut54YvhLD1reprc9IypDSEmdEODdqQJOoWSZk9wvxT+vd8vEYTpyRdW622j+tNQ J2MFs3ZMDE1MhahtidNHWp8AUMjaleTgA+wMtA4gqlb1AUHTRJeLHgR3dpJ7eSABOPnMrLDch T4+YZoeTf5lcPwaYngjxyzfAr23gEpoCu8Se17SQrLxwwYG6kNezqGepJORnpSzQHZtF6Q74E 7Z3MMcO/a/jSwfXchWuWPCXI3SRUm410vABb2UYPb30WLGQJCm/w84YRGs/8Ubuo7qynGFcM9 w2VrYN63NlKCrhcMkc4QQ0ExIWj66YIscXeYkOb4o+oGnflMMSlqXSpdwY0Kh2snZEUyydrVZ LWN9CuyuYhaOpXoZbD68IoiXgioAjtj4lpnwOdtTs91rUsw+2Lkpv/96RiVsGibJ4H3LfqBR0 gZE/w1dCzZ0Q308Nps/JSPacMX4iQOExGccOGQDTFqzZcGn4vrZ6atj7nVjjKJ0ZWYWPmb2jZ ck0koLzuBL7LzYc43zVPFPD6mIy2h3+8NPUo0Lv40fXJRlPcdghauDFNg9k3cT0OpGZzpXSIJ VvcaJlDf02P8JnW524rJDoionOWpIsSUPEAMviRltvuuA4EqiAu0g1anFOValEpdRuLZk9Whw 1hzOXBJxKgB50NWp+NhZERfx4zXMJfFWE5jinaFnTqOypw26B/wH3kAPEpSqJYBUvHLPF2ieg a3+0LtuF3N6k01lZS22enw0J2sfXqkwjuSRM5k3JbwgmG2DiH1NkvQ7uZDrusiJaZSbvZLcSH rnzQiDgxiswupJgC5DWXtuSDpBBpslhdrLkrLwX5NjHeuKsNCEdLDpayFair6CHbyyy/l2ULa /ISyuu6DI/jrxoTHeb4sjIeSmGhUbTvg2wH0zl15l/2qlfGTLmKCzG+2OiqkEkcx8HRos5TM/ fRLy/IxlWJBcVMj6gGNmj753fc1ojvyFo53ieVTxlqPRjL9ZPd51og85qby++6m4XSHTuu5La NTfP2qSaZoY8oiyUfgTOIY4rbi08bFwizS0KlK13+vWvlvpN7a1sIayeXlN0= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) How is it backwards incompatable? If the prior behavior was undefined, no one would have been using it for anything. From their perspective, a defined is just another form of undefined behavior, if you get my drift. On 2019-10-30 22:07, Stefan Kangas wrote: > tags 34338 + wontfix > close 34338 > quit > > Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > > > It seems to me from the discussion like we don't want to make the > > proposed change, since it has an unclear benefit and is backwards > > incompatible. > > > > Is there is something I'm missing here? Otherwise, I think we can > > close this as wontfix. > > No one has objected within 3 weeks, so I'm closing this as wontfix. > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas =2D- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2019 21:08:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 30 17:08:10 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51706 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iPvCM-0001Ny-L3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:08:10 -0400 Received: from giraff.fripost.org ([193.234.15.44]:42238 helo=outgoing.fripost.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <skangas@HIDDEN>) id 1iPvCK-0001Ng-Hf; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:08:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E27187E918; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:08:03 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=x.fripost.org; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:user-agent:message-id :in-reply-to:date:date:references:subject:subject:from:from; s= 9df9cdc7e101629b5003b587945afa70; t=1572469683; x=1574284084; bh=eMzQ3PSFJZ8Dy62JsqeON8uipQyVYbX23ZIpbGSpkac=; b=Ur6PH2CuM4lM P7KBbyohaHXN/iPUYLr3Ro5wYO5aTQqpZHMMbb7vfB20DB/LxixE6B1QwWdqYHgt GLM3KNEy5KWmErZb1S9UGq6iCIHFjCTDacJ2GST0NELa6Vf5UOaQZ5BAhQDBMfck brw/jJIoJ8muKkGa9ga4Qi35dm2AsdT/qPKIFvcivcKfYnjtQ9yi6lf17nmhnIqu aVfV4aMPj0FKo5Mt8SiQ0sa6Ic9BatMZLvPuBLrPpiMaVC9DpvnbgWILXdLAv+Ha yFD1fRojb2N3ivhmjMickdNEf4Hyb4zVpbOTwSYbzLCl4aIGV8zkI19JuyrpaG50 c0XpEJTcKw== X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at fripost.org Received: from outgoing.fripost.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (giraff.fripost.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10040) with LMTP id XukFGgscTHkS; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:08:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.fripost.org (unknown [172.16.0.6]) by outgoing.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0129E187E914; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:08:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by smtp.fripost.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 95815599EF95; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:07:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from skangas by joffe.skangas.se with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <skangas@HIDDEN>) id 1iPvBr-00052p-I5; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:07:39 +0100 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 22:07:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:48:37 +0200") Message-ID: <87wocmvt5w.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) tags 34338 + wontfix close 34338 quit Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > It seems to me from the discussion like we don't want to make the > proposed change, since it has an unclear benefit and is backwards > incompatible. > > Is there is something I'm missing here? Otherwise, I think we can > close this as wontfix. No one has objected within 3 weeks, so I'm closing this as wontfix. Best regards, Stefan Kangas
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Oct 2019 11:48:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Oct 09 07:48:56 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52234 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iIASd-0000t1-Sa for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 07:48:56 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f178.google.com ([209.85.210.178]:40170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1iIASc-0000sn-79 for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 07:48:54 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id x127so1465531pfb.7 for <34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 04:48:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IMW26mDeC+g2s7UZc1gjUSOrbaI1c0W+bMNmxd2+7tM=; b=YEoQCTlDnZPLCXaDYSzAQTdR4PY8ZB05T43DtmaV5oUez1qWnEbgC2cwQfJ4j3/Ry/ 7LrAXQMb9Dz1ba/qZx3zfnzXBASN62rqXOo2w2efukMHgYnjETj4MP/gem3qEF6l1Vh+ 35zSACJpYkYdGT64zkmHBuTkv0KTQKPgY/rzL1DL2uRtINFV23udX5n7vyYw+Y0m0lTv 3xdx0fm6jyJNcB1pVJb6pHm1or52WH1iMP/iP1MUFe4DMjzzvE6rhmpsFSSMWh+2cgmc iKrSAJAW4BeCRKLBJtLjwnF9k1gZj7t3cqzrY63oBvuQUR7qW2q3HcFXUtUG4AhReJz5 X+Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXfpP4e+Ukiw/liWoOiYQM3hyAmvZSHSTJ2Ete4lVcTq6Vsvm1T N99wmJUU18oRLBd2zdTAgbNS9TemE/+AGe5ALlU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqygXylw2lBMtUtxKpVmTJRZ/YvNdR3NTMuYwBIrR5OsTIFnNNDfWOlhNLTTJkSmRIfBGAHc3JDMo7pbrJ5ZUtg= X-Received: by 2002:a62:1bd3:: with SMTP id b202mr3321233pfb.50.1570621728421; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 04:48:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:48:37 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmhRAptdebg1DC5Xg9v2Xw6NagYKgL2fVBP7peqPJjaqw@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000032fd40059478de7d" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) --00000000000032fd40059478de7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > On 2019-02-07 05:36, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500 >> > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> >> > >> > So the messages are unique, but not clear. >> >> The description comes from the error code returned by a C library >> function. Doing more than that would mean additional checks, which >> will be expensive and probably non-portable. I don't see the benefit. >> I mean, why isn't "Operation not permitted" enough, it tells you that >> your user is not permitted to do that, which is clear enough IMO. > > Reasonable. It seems to me from the discussion like we don't want to make the proposed change, since it has an unclear benefit and is backwards incompatible. Is there is something I'm missing here? Otherwise, I think we can close this as wontfix. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --00000000000032fd40059478de7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">Boruch Baum <<a href=3D"mailto:boruch_baum@HIDDEN">bor= uch_baum@HIDDEN</a>> writes:<br><br>> On 2019-02-07 05:36, Eli Zaret= skii wrote:<br>>> > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500<br>>&g= t; > From: Boruch Baum <<a href=3D"mailto:boruch_baum@HIDDEN">boruch= _baum@HIDDEN</a>><br>>> ><br>>> > So the messages are= unique, but not clear.<br>>><br>>> The description comes from = the error code returned by a C library<br>>> function.=C2=A0 Doing mo= re than that would mean additional checks, which<br>>> will be expens= ive and probably non-portable.=C2=A0 I don't see the benefit.<br>>&g= t; I mean, why isn't "Operation not permitted" enough, it tel= ls you that<br>>> your user is not permitted to do that, which is cle= ar enough IMO.<br>><br>> Reasonable.<br><br>It seems to me from the d= iscussion like we don't want to make the proposed change, since it has = an unclear benefit and is backwards<br>incompatible.<br><br>Is there is som= ething I'm missing here?=C2=A0 Otherwise, I think we can close this as = wontfix.<br><br>Best regards,<br>Stefan Kangas</div> --00000000000032fd40059478de7d--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2019 05:14:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 07 00:14:27 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36457 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grc15-0001CE-IT for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 00:14:27 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:42149) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1grc13-0001By-1z for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 00:14:25 -0500 Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([108.6.168.221]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LuKHz-1hIB0Z2lDL-011kPP; Thu, 07 Feb 2019 06:14:17 +0100 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 00:14:12 -0500 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20190207051412.gzzzqat6ht3lfwfw@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <83r2cksxdt.fsf@HIDDEN> <20190206210211.f6ugtim5ie22nkd4@HIDDEN> <83ef8ks21r.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83ef8ks21r.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xcxxLvePaiiywgKzdWsIeiSoyn0JEbvNkmxIAwT+Da7kMMDL4Ro kdKRhuDS2lR8i3ZLjdQXldGE6akga/uIyEszp2Dikn6v1c/3hXwCN0kzHbNBc2Fp8cdTJ06 HOW8UzYQcrX1LdwViyOuultapCH4YEi1TriqjnGbNcxMY1bENviB07AVagPyoUJnYYBJQsT +7t8XnGpI9emnYmFIl5Ww== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zWGSvcnWou0=:3QrBhrMPOf3ww9jak/2quC kJYQQ+7VyKOYWOaaKB21zcTI/aAsYxMIfBJID0yr88pRgW0ZHjtgY9TGVH6KNEZBye911XcMB v/rvJiGKSDxWI7rDBd0bZPaKV4pMImvYe4PkoHHvtGvvEdqPSK0oDGnf/53dCd8BwVF3+mJfk D/eEq/OwhrKvr+1qG9xRs7oyRmnfO8Jl4G6ZnJLcVy/vVKEAP89HMh6PVicSWp5TIcmT84zos GPedSkMCT36Qk5TaIHWcNt2tOzeQg0gawFDpRT38PK9n6R+OryWZGOe4jxXLCSbvON3AHaZDF S3Lzb7s9K4/RSG2lZq8jXMIIZck9xyZXZr/45Uy3xZ6P4aTLPmIoLyCDpOEkOOe3e/G4cVGyE cm6tmiWxPAMAzidfCTYYMmBsxG/NSbPhkEyyfNSmHI547/wW9PjzpxPgSs/r/N64OxLai/KJv RQIohkImbCjdrbD6a/9j/R39Szw2hX5PuqEHavaMZfM2hkfwgTKmJiNbBUsd1IolJf8rEEy5L Glxn2R5IJSK1B6b6kbhfK9HEOkLT5H3qF+PswzUnO390tvPI++VvSlBZJwG17a9IBW8rRsEn2 ZziheBzO9Qx4b7FdEYqoknpsA3KH/rH5ErBcfLBdHmdMbOUs0BM6gFNnFxaYdS9BAXt+Qdws2 P2DXddYQpYyH2SkSkyHxa/aSeB/Duf62MsIoE0L6HwAnspa9YPn2BKDeOLh8/Ow08BGgCdY3v xTZZvOqGcLwA9P+IzijplArIlVrABehJKG9kMHj0ABvsZRud4/HJ+78/1wldCWixmq/l+DbEg jSpwq13Ckz56Hqg5yoGZFrm/fuUZ0aREjMRaXK7tLJffosd5tFX+MPrPHEPqezVIbHvcwHy4v 52L8cCh4l8rVjoslTu5iO0rhgVHt1MBOMI/pIS68eeY1ngUmW4HHIJl5KXYHuC X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2019-02-07 05:36, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500 > > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > > > > So the messages are unique, but not clear. > > The description comes from the error code returned by a C library > function. Doing more than that would mean additional checks, which > will be expensive and probably non-portable. I don't see the benefit. > I mean, why isn't "Operation not permitted" enough, it tells you that > your user is not permitted to do that, which is clear enough IMO. Reasonable. -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2019 03:36:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 22:36:15 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36439 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1graU2-0005Ff-Nm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 22:36:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1graU0-0005FR-Dd for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 22:36:12 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44383) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1graTv-00025I-6D; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 22:36:07 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1910 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1graTu-0003PX-Q1; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 22:36:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2019 05:36:00 +0200 Message-Id: <83ef8ks21r.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <20190206210211.f6ugtim5ie22nkd4@HIDDEN> (message from Boruch Baum on Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <83r2cksxdt.fsf@HIDDEN> <20190206210211.f6ugtim5ie22nkd4@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500 > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > > B2) raise an error when (not NOERROR) and: > > > > > > B2.1) file doesn't exist > > > > > > B2.2) (and (chmod -w) (not FORCE)) > > > > > > B2.3) another form of permission denial is encountered > > > > !ERROR and either of the following, or all of them? > > Either. > > > In any case, you propose a backward-incompatible change in behavior, > > so it won't fly. We could perhaps do it the other way around: add a > > new optional argument ERROR-OUT, which, when non-nil, will cause the > > function to signal an error when B2.1 or B2.2 happen (I believe B2.3 > > already causes an error). And similarly with FORCE. > > > IOW > > ... (snip) ... > > The part that would transform a prior condition of 'crash' to some > return value is a kind of backward-incompatibility that I think most > people would appreciate. I'm more worried about the opposite: signaling an error where we currently silently do nothing. > For a proposed FORCE arg, backward-incompatibility is a positive > feature, a bug-fix Sorry, it's too late to fix such "bugs" in veteran interfaces. We must do that in backward-compatible way. > > > C) maybe log the exact error or reason for nil to *Messages*. > > > > Not sure what you mean by "exact error or reason", I believe we > > already log the reason. > > For me, in response chmod -x $parent_dir, the error message is: > > eval: Removing old name: Permission denied, /home/boruch/foo/bar > > And the response to chattr +i bar > > eval: Removing old name: Operation not permitted, /home/boruch/foo/bar > > So the messages are unique, but not clear. The description comes from the error code returned by a C library function. Doing more than that would mean additional checks, which will be expensive and probably non-portable. I don't see the benefit. I mean, why isn't "Operation not permitted" enough, it tells you that your user is not permitted to do that, which is clear enough IMO.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2019 21:02:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 16:02:26 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36215 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grUKw-00084x-9W for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:02:26 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:40489) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1grUKt-00080B-MB for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:02:24 -0500 Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([108.6.168.221]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MP0LT-1gnNj73aZb-006Me7; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 22:02:15 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 16:02:11 -0500 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20190206210211.f6ugtim5ie22nkd4@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <83r2cksxdt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <83r2cksxdt.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jsuYTs9RtaYPkZuxfEAmDBrQQAYFnPK5ZhMP5XtUzs5xxx7K9fd C3zYOZBHUe0ZUh4iurB8tjWAfSojNn7C19/RQNZhS9NJNWfWATewkl6JzNnW97zGHc5adSm dGbGJpVxOloQfirpWHzZzvJGj5Swc4bNbulOpwLScAGl0zM1z+FyQ1rqPdhLpjSyOjUhiAi sBtaHj4w524xHU83Mge6Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:e9k6hEgzZJo=:d0ZclI6+9cwGZ0LteNomxy E4T97GMOeqBBNmEEL/ss/2z9AJwvSmsENDeXOwVzBsktmAj1AJ9Tq7m6gi7MMNQP51p5/yQjM odNCjNpQdLauLhyHpU51Vm/EKnhuYKJ72QOAtlJKVL6w8J8zfLw1BXF448RHG5tL+MwLcLlnX tihN2JNLXABcKiqlpKPdARHK45tGXdJJsMs/4vjfhr7UjkTpZpZK5aSeGleZtW8ggdOWM0siW CXpGvxNIzrFxJbz8HhswkGUUTwqSD98VJJK/cM26+VMITsCuB8NN6gYdV3I3sMQMddZDSBMvl 0SsL7qgt9RpsxbpQHMSeaEzD4fXFy6VsU4PCMFCApNfGRcnu19RNi0BbqQfArhOYPBuPYbh9Y zFijn3vGMVty5KbQyNSXFykvSUDW79QGDcigXxofINXQe4pyvLvLytQPS3p8Kzmgu0+VtP9ux cq59ZrjHubgiL1PqtVQiInuwdhX6QWjVP9QuNT4ZcCThuxN5LAUfMubUYDwYeMPPr5W+N1vH4 Zo50pyZwhtNwdLpjvsVRlnoFWBsptAAkNdvZnyoMWRE7I5K78P66Cyzqw4qaYDlisZV6eSKra 6YHCtAFvKlY9DRsrUsrROmZ7j6JkhOLcCdYnSdHUt8pDRykYejf6b+5ETYRcetD1CX+XvXtcP oezLLUPaH7/DqoTv4k37adT35wfp1byxofmBEZp/v833lHRfaBVjky4AjUJzlHMtFL+S/ZYZW 4swl36H0oVo/VuThESY8sK46TnUWh54lmnumbNqIGa18csUI/243hNYKtl7HhJMa3mg1TxtBK XzSztbfHom0+Jv+1nGhY3Z8/EoDrtd3G2EUdvPa5TCBwpJugj4/XVPANybGcz5OVL3gTTR6eY CqIopFxuzhsOnrQ8CAAk4Mi+PHqHL9jhX1wOc7cuI9N19O2uCNKNVz7SDNdnjR X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2019-02-06 18:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:47:37 -0500 > > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > > As Michael points out, there's one optional argument already, and we > need to preserve it. Yup. > > > B2) raise an error when (not NOERROR) and: > > > > B2.1) file doesn't exist > > > > B2.2) (and (chmod -w) (not FORCE)) > > > > B2.3) another form of permission denial is encountered > > !ERROR and either of the following, or all of them? Either. > In any case, you propose a backward-incompatible change in behavior, > so it won't fly. We could perhaps do it the other way around: add a > new optional argument ERROR-OUT, which, when non-nil, will cause the > function to signal an error when B2.1 or B2.2 happen (I believe B2.3 > already causes an error). And similarly with FORCE. > IOW > ... (snip) ... The part that would transform a prior condition of 'crash' to some return value is a kind of backward-incompatibility that I think most people would appreciate. The issue would be if there exists code in emacs that traps on the current crashes (eg. using 'condition-case'). I like the idea of requiring non-nil to force an ERROR-OUT, but that would inconsistent with the more common emacs use of NOERROR as an arg. For a proposed FORCE arg, backward-incompatibility is a positive feature, a bug-fix, in that emacs is not currently respecting a user's environment choice to place a level of protection from deleting the target file. A user made a conscious positive act at some point to put a level of protection on a file, that in the usual context, 'rm', would require further interaction in order to proceed, and emacs is currently not abiding by that. > > C) maybe log the exact error or reason for nil to *Messages*. > > Not sure what you mean by "exact error or reason", I believe we > already log the reason. For me, in response chmod -x $parent_dir, the error message is: eval: Removing old name: Permission denied, /home/boruch/foo/bar And the response to chattr +i bar eval: Removing old name: Operation not permitted, /home/boruch/foo/bar So the messages are unique, but not clear. > Finally, did you think how to allow users set or reset these new knobs > when invoking delete-file interactively? No! Um .... > I think these options are mainly for interactive use, and in that case > we should have some convenient way of setting them interactively. So, currently the prefix arg is already being used for TRASH ... Interactively, having a 'knob' for NOERROR (or its reverse, per above) doesn't seem to me necessary ... what value does it add for an interactive invocation? ... Interactively, for FORCE, there's no 'lossage-advantage' (borrowed term based upon `C-h l') to requiring a user to add keystrokes up-front prior to delete-file, rather than requiring the user to y-or-n if the file has protection. So, that doesn't seem necessary, unless you want to add a feature to allow delete-file to operate on a regex or sequence of filenames instead of a single file. That leaves my off-topic comment to Michael about a THRASH (not TRASH, but maybe better SHRED) arg. My input on that would be to have such a feature as a separate function (eg. shred-file), and not an arg to delete-file. חודש טוב ואדר כפול שמח. -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2019 16:19:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 11:19:26 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grPv4-0003QS-A0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 11:19:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54625) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPv3-0003QE-00 for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 11:19:25 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43654) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPuw-0003cq-JY; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 11:19:19 -0500 Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3479 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1grPuw-0007UF-7V; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 11:19:18 -0500 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 18:19:10 +0200 Message-Id: <83r2cksxdt.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> (message from Boruch Baum on Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:47:37 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:47:37 -0500 > From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> > > Currently: > > A1) When delete-file successfully deletes a file, the function returns > nil, not t. > > A2) When the file does not exist, the function returns the same > value - nil. > > A3) When the file has been chmod'ed -w, the function performs the > operation, with no regard to any option to emulate or not emulate 'rm > -f', and also returns the identical value - nil. > > A4) When either the file's containing folder is chmod'ed -x, or the file > is chattr'ed +i, the function crashes. The function's return value is not documented, which is an indication that it is "not useful". You will see in the code that it always either returns nil or signals an error. > I'd like to suggest: > > delete-file FILE &optional NOERROR FORCE As Michael points out, there's one optional argument already, and we need to preserve it. > B2) raise an error when (not NOERROR) and: > > B2.1) file doesn't exist > > B2.2) (and (chmod -w) (not FORCE)) > > B2.3) another form of permission denial is encountered !ERROR and either of the following, or all of them? In any case, you propose a backward-incompatible change in behavior, so it won't fly. We could perhaps do it the other way around: add a new optional argument ERROR-OUT, which, when non-nil, will cause the function to signal an error when B2.1 or B2.2 happen (I believe B2.3 already causes an error). And similarly with FORCE. IOW, since omitting optional arguments is the same as passing nil for them, we cannot add new arguments that change behavior if they are nil, certainly not in a function that is not only command, but also an important primitive used all over the place in Emacs. > C) maybe log the exact error or reason for nil to *Messages*. Not sure what you mean by "exact error or reason", I believe we already log the reason. Finally, did you think how to allow users set or reset these new knobs when invoking delete-file interactively? I think these options are mainly for interactive use, and in that case we should have some convenient way of setting them interactively. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2019 09:35:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 04:35:19 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grJbz-0003SM-61 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 04:35:19 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:46205) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>) id 1grJbw-0003S5-04 for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 04:35:16 -0500 Received: from E15-2016.optimum.net ([108.6.168.221]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lomql-1hJVck0qz5-00gmdX; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 10:35:09 +0100 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:35:05 -0500 From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures Message-ID: <20190206093505.7toxfw44pq4he3e6@HIDDEN> References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> <87d0o5494m.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87d0o5494m.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kAnoKY0MorXp3HPxAJP32r246Rjapc98P6q5nMV6xGKkd6muFLL xkLeOJz7P0wqNqa3DIkr3lwzutLKXobXTszVhiA0WegmHJkcR6lINJ/H/GhT0WCWoT1CSQf oVEjeJ0cLwr4EzVwQKnh6AAsXt0KqJDZ4kzP2he4F+ZzQ2b2TQYicyWWFUOBQHil6dRr+MZ bs1fNzCqSy1DRUAAwFjOA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tHTmY8eXpVU=:ZOoYvFL4+YH8oJGB3BHFwL +6Bo4AlygIBkJRf4YwWPwB9uKBCfKRE2Wk9V1AOmC2kEgQuT7d/nh7iQa9qG5q9P1KcZIj+9I P+gTGCKjnPd6DIOReDIfgXHeemi46b1Qoyte+XULAo6wPsdMCOpwpPqbfGzrT/ENk3leQyoou Lagz8c7XUQe10d5BTb1o3D6p7+QUsAokHA2zHHZGWCQytr+p48a2wxY2rJULnvpyx4qVajjC3 PNI1y9I+7XZqTSiT79r9AQejr58opjQbP/fbb3tNpJNniGcYVlC2mFmD9cRnoL23873N2a2i3 2RMYQq4DAmIsRkUvyU28avFVLxNdP/qU7Svb2rf1tt3X+8nUqJVro37CSKXJtW4HLBStdyUJ1 10u6jv6dqAjm1tGRFizIeHbV6iH0QGSo99ChjZZQtbjRiUwiR8gtRT6PjCQWcAzRSaLZmku2H zAoXrLRQu6tUOTSgcfcqufIniR64jPjyp9REFBX8Vh67ZHL3qR9yxHJYJEFY1ReFtjh4fkp5N WufD1Fys4t38LayX712ETlnsV74N5MMEVEzAfBcHvKXPP7OGVK2FMOEYLWV61BH0u6I2G8T0P 1kvZDHl5urVACHC6Zxo0GUGJDjIrRKmI8c6jJxT+9T+vAGuJH5Gpf0D3bpj7n0F1f0tl5NAKV I0Sys2KSfRgRunPQQfLQJNnmUGhMMKQxdtREOsG9LEeaLllxrNDBMbqDgJaFggPB0X5hINFYF 96JG6ebUjLNXsVfW6uhul4GyY8KjX5QScAY6BEUYQrDRdBQNDwJVfZ3upxAMGvxZvtho9tznt zQk0xd4qXIB3ZHDmaERQGH/4mOv9cqG+YzYjkSGVmd3jp1Fa/LYy5kUvHOnuqhSueUBpcShRh YTGNWBtdzhCObTxef+qkRriGqtY5+gSR44cJH0Jn/E6K86ml8Y4VIraZBvFLuD X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2019-02-06 09:24, Michael Albinus wrote: > Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: > > I'd like to suggest: > > > > delete-file FILE &optional NOERROR FORCE > > At the very least, keep existing arguments. So it would be > > delete-file FILE &optional THRASH NOERROR FORCE Off-topic, but potentially worthy of consideration: For a second, I didn't realize that 'thrash' might be a typo, and I got excited, because it made it seem that there existed a hidden feature that I would love for delete-file to have: some sort of 'thrashing' the file before un-linking / de-allocating, aka. a secure delete similar to the linux core-util 'shred'. As background, I noticed this behavior of 'delete-file' when proposing a feature for emacs-w3m to securely scrub a user's internet browsing history. There[1], I'm currently just calling 'shred' or some other external program of the user's choice. > Your other proposals look OK to me. It might be worth to say, that FORCE > could fail for some Tramp backends (but I haven't checked in detail yet). > > Best regards, Michael. Always happy to try to be of help. [1] https://github.com/emacs-w3m/emacs-w3m/pull/2 -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 34338) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2019 08:24:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 06 03:24:50 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33987 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1grIVm-0001iG-KJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 03:24:50 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:46625) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1grIVk-0001i3-Vm for 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 03:24:49 -0500 Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([213.220.158.98]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LqALY-1hLwMs1rBQ-00dmNX; Wed, 06 Feb 2019 09:24:42 +0100 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#34338: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures References: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2019 09:24:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20190205214737.vswyk7sfmgkliv7v@HIDDEN> (Boruch Baum's message of "Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:47:37 -0500") Message-ID: <87d0o5494m.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:eazhR/6XWBdXCRepJHTLnuAjoKychweoghK9Is3U5GoqU9Saphf +nMcm6g0CYKE5+cT2qXsRalh3o0k9u8l/qt204Xb66oaFWH7VvoGGgFyiDYn5RmS4Itv2Sq Dfek2nnMzERaMlAAT5SqX+YHq+I4gqT4iRHdg1JH1SOQQbHvUe/gJuHfPZPR+H6Fgpf9aSr MZAQkLA5vtkHIIScbJRoQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xj1X1wu3BV4=:xs1yqRX8ppnuUMNIjNwW05 HW1YvnvcE+PLcZsh749VKNTgJqyKWK16/HaPQTdN25FIpiPhZ3LPld532zikveLNSpfQWooK2 RSLmFDpCZMV4GycsdVKFrl3QcNVjzwkcy+Oa/aJ4csst6fiFeALddhpB4ujndQlGrixqzVrR7 IdPCEy4Gwa5WZifW5X5QoBwht13KmFXEEN1Q2+MDzuYuLN6IdMtKeugPG+wCLOdyJjCeqniIl GSdK0ZfG3+l90CtjkwGzDSHhNrQENh+9HsmoMvxh5OzKdiMSEq+YBkDRm44LEZqg024lJqAda xQ3IXcrzAeSeNswvxHoxDy8GHpZaLgggdpGGEB8SLB3ADTuyjG1J0kkxHo350e1RDb8INMydv MDEQsF15igB4e6S4MjvHpixksH6COp8SMoBrmSm5clnm42Ljm80x7X7y/KdNYtW+obdtnIKzb jimxvT20Te/oXXD2e9vIxgvoC1lTyPJGvA7/gxD8eSI5gJaE5RETxGwdUbKrdYOtDKbQlchso iLvi0jIcCBWzSn/sETFn8xLANWS8WvzbuPfM1lf0N5oJQLTuylbk8ykkQX07jRHu9vbgUoW8H fEWuDD5RfUzi1caslE0pjo9wIvJ9H2HzE8VJmO1W2x4I4zAv2PdRCZi+90uQd+0/YVUX9t4kd U7mNFX67yxM8oAgaNk67ngCo/D3o2ZGWv1FecajZr7E7TTGvBEBvLyybzGzOXPWRVTDHZlvGj 1nOOIr6qMMnp7xmZnal0cibpY0D7m/Z6UuNRc3jGfGcdcvqb226L/mEuXC9HT5VkqGwYKOmDW 4Wl/RmLAsMdgng2PVrwsLc1ERtuLJbaItW9czpGqWC+jRoMAcAXYrIZcGdJx94zzqJmURq55o 1Tgpc63ZBMMulId/UsWKd+QizwX83IUApsygMjEgB7STn1crKoHplMm25lFFbBq6JCayGazBP BIrEzM5/8PA== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 34338 Cc: 34338 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Boruch, > I'd like to suggest: > > delete-file FILE &optional NOERROR FORCE At the very least, keep existing arguments. So it would be delete-file FILE &optional THRASH NOERROR FORCE Your other proposals look OK to me. It might be worth to say, that FORCE could fail for some Tramp backends (but I haven't checked in detail yet). Best regards, Michael.
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 16:47:37 -0500
From: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>
To: Emacs Bug Reporting <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures
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Subject: 26.1; delete-file return codes and failures
Currently:
A1) When delete-file successfully deletes a file, the function returns
nil, not t.
A2) When the file does not exist, the function returns the same
value - nil.
A3) When the file has been chmod'ed -w, the function performs the
operation, with no regard to any option to emulate or not emulate 'rm
-f', and also returns the identical value - nil.
A4) When either the file's containing folder is chmod'ed -x, or the file
is chattr'ed +i, the function crashes.
I'd like to suggest:
delete-file FILE &optional NOERROR FORCE
B1) return t on success
B2) raise an error when (not NOERROR) and:
B2.1) file doesn't exist
B2.2) (and (chmod -w) (not FORCE))
B2.3) another form of permission denial is encountered
B3) return nil when NOERROR and:
B2.1) file doesn't exist
B2.2) another form of permission denial is encountered
C) maybe log the exact error or reason for nil to *Messages*.
In GNU Emacs 26.1 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.2)
of 2018-12-26, modified by Debian built on x86-ubc-01
System Description: Devuan GNU/Linux 2.0.0 (ascii)
--
hkp://keys.gnupg.net
CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0
Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#34338; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.