GNU bug report logs - #35270
27.0.50; gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.0.50; gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 16:09:13 +0300

I use gnus to read mail with imap (nnimap). I have two accounts defined
as:
    1. gmx: defined in gnus-select-method, and the other
    2. AIA: defined in gnus-secondary-select-methods

Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:

1. removed the gnus start-up files:
   mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
   mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
   mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
   rm .*~

2. pulled-in to the latest commit form master
   - commit d209d64622 "Update from Gnulib" (April 13, 2019)

3. compiled with "make bootstrap" & "sudo make install"

4. start a brand new Emacs and start gnus.

The following strange behaviors appeared after the upgrade & clean
start:
    1. during start-up asks for a username to "gmx+AIA". Clearly there
       can be no such group. Some how this seems like an interaction
       between the two select methods.
    2. When the Group buffer is displayed, I get:
       - The gmx server groups, defined in gnus-select-method
         ("primary"), are now displayed as "nnimap+gmx:groupname" (ex:
         nnimap+gmx:INBOX).
       - The AIA server groups, defined in gnus-secondary-select-methods
         or not displayed at all (initially), even though some have new
         messages.
       - Pressing "L", displays all groups from both servers, but:
         + The AIA groups have all zero unread articles. Entering those
           groups which I know have new articles, displays the new
           articles correctly.
         + The gmx group are displayed twice, as:
           - nnimap+gmx:INBOX, the "new" format
           - INBOX, the "traditional" format for the gnus-select-method.
    3. The AIA groups (secondary) are not updated with new messages
       where reloading the Group buffer, are updated in the Summary
       buffer after pressing "/N".


The following behavior was displayed before the upgrade:
   1. Many articles are shown as unread twice, after the first read.

Any more info needed, that can help, let me know.



In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.24)
 of 2019-04-14 built on dellcorei5dias
Repository revision: d209d646220bf1967e12d2de5c37b2be82e29835
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11905000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux buster/sid

Recent messages:
Opening nnimap server on gmx...done
Reading active file from gmx via nnimap...done
Opening connection to imap.gmx.com via tls...
nnimap read 0k from imap-mail.outlook.com (initial sync of 186 groups; please wait)
nnimap read 89k from imap-mail.outlook.com (initial sync of 186 groups; please wait)
nnimap read 320k from imap-mail.outlook.com (initial sync of 186 groups; please wait)
nnimap read 737k from imap-mail.outlook.com (initial sync of 186 groups; please wait)
Reading active file via nndraft...done
Checking new news...done
Auto-saving...

Configured using:
 'configure --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-dbus --without-cairo
 --with-modules --with-file-notification=yes --with-xwidgets
 --without-selinux 'CFLAGS=-O2 -s''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB
NOTIFY INOTIFY GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS
LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Group

Minor modes in effect:
  recentf-mode: t
  cursor-sensor-mode: t
  gnus-undo-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-autoresize-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  mode-icons-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  midnight-mode: t
  electric-pair-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

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Features:
(shadow emacsbug smiley shr-color shr svg dom mm-archive gnus-bcklg
mailalias smtpmail sort gnus-cite bbdb-message sendmail mail-extr
outshine outshine-org-cmds outorg orgalist flyspell ispell org-toc
org-bookmark org-mouse org-info org-id org-gnus org-eww org-eshell
org-docview doc-view image-mode org-crypt org-bbdb org-table nnir
switch-window switch-window-mvborder switch-window-asciiart quail
gnus-async qp gnus-ml disp-table tramp-cache tramp-sh recentf
tree-widget ido helm-x-files helm-for-files helm-bookmark helm-adaptive
bookmark pp jka-compr helpful imenu trace info-look shut-up f
dash-functional help-fns radix-tree elisp-refs s loop misearch
multi-isearch image-file helm-external helm-net browse-url xml url
url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
url-domsuf ffap cursor-sensor nndraft nnmh utf-7 bbdb-gnus bbdb-mua
gnutls network-stream nsm gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score score-mode
nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig
mailcap nntp gnus-cache gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start
gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int
gnus-range message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa
derived epg mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 gmm-utils
mailheader gnus-win winner helm-command helm-elisp helm-eval edebug
backtrace helm-info paredit pcre2el rxt re-builder pdf-loader two-column
hydra lv bm printing ps-print ps-print-loaddefs ps-def lpr
flycheck-ledger flycheck cl-extra help-mode occur-x multiple-cursors
mc-hide-unmatched-lines-mode mc-separate-operations
rectangular-region-mode mc-mark-pop mc-mark-more thingatpt
mc-cycle-cursors mc-edit-lines multiple-cursors-core rect
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Message #8 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 16:34:22 +0100

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
> gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:
>
> 1. removed the gnus start-up files:
>    mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
>    mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
>    mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
>    rm .*~

Can you reproduce this starting from 'emacs -Q' in a clean HOME
directory, i.e. with

  HOME=$(mktemp -d) emacs -Q

or similar?  I ask because it is possible for something in your
configuration and/or home directory to be interfering, see e.g.
https://debbugs.gnu.org/35208#11

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

Message #11 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2019 23:34:29 +0300

On Sun, Apr 14 2019, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
>> gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:
>>
>> 1. removed the gnus start-up files:
>>    mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
>>    mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
>>    mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
>>    rm .*~
>
> Can you reproduce this starting from 'emacs -Q' in a clean HOME
> directory, i.e. with
>
>   HOME=$(mktemp -d) emacs -Q
>
> or similar?  I ask because it is possible for something in your
> configuration and/or home directory to be interfering, see e.g.
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/35208#11
>
> Thanks,

Yes and I did.
Repeating with a clean HOME directory gives the same results wrt
          the gnus behavior described above.

Message #14 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 09:38:23 -0700

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> On Sun, Apr 14 2019, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote:
>
>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
>>> gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:
>>>
>>> 1. removed the gnus start-up files:
>>>    mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
>>>    mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
>>>    mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
>>>    rm .*~
>>
>> Can you reproduce this starting from 'emacs -Q' in a clean HOME
>> directory, i.e. with
>>
>>   HOME=$(mktemp -d) emacs -Q
>>
>> or similar?  I ask because it is possible for something in your
>> configuration and/or home directory to be interfering, see e.g.
>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/35208#11
>>
>> Thanks,
>
> Yes and I did.
> Repeating with a clean HOME directory gives the same results wrt
>           the gnus behavior described above.

I'm trying to imagine what could be causing this behavior, and so far
haven't come up with any likely theories! You mentioned removing your
start-up files before starting this experiment, but you must have some
config in place to define the two imap servers: can you show me the
absolute minimum config sufficient to display this weirdness? (And would
you mind updating to the most recent master before you do? It's possible
some recent updates might have addressed this.)

Thanks,
Eric

Message #17 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:20:48 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Mon, Apr 22 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 14 2019, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote:
>>
>>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
>>>> gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:
>>>>
>>>> 1. removed the gnus start-up files:
>>>>    mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
>>>>    mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
>>>>    mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
>>>>    rm .*~
>>>
>>> Can you reproduce this starting from 'emacs -Q' in a clean HOME
>>> directory, i.e. with
>>>
>>>   HOME=$(mktemp -d) emacs -Q
>>>
>>> or similar?  I ask because it is possible for something in your
>>> configuration and/or home directory to be interfering, see e.g.
>>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/35208#11
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>
>> Yes and I did.
>> Repeating with a clean HOME directory gives the same results wrt
>>           the gnus behavior described above.
>
> I'm trying to imagine what could be causing this behavior, and so far
> haven't come up with any likely theories! You mentioned removing your
> start-up files before starting this experiment, but you must have some
> config in place to define the two imap servers: can you show me the
> absolute minimum config sufficient to display this weirdness? (And would
> you mind updating to the most recent master before you do? It's possible
> some recent updates might have addressed this.)
>
> Thanks,
> Eric

I tried this on Sat Apr. 20 and got the same results.
Also today, by pulling to the latest commit:
    : commit 981470e3590534a4d2947dfe5626cae832c6502d
    : Author: Philipp Stephani <phst <at> google.com>
    : Date:   Mon Apr 22 18:58:51 2019 +0200

compiling with "make bootstrap" and running from a (almost) empty
directory as:  ~HOME=$(pwd) Emacs~
The HOME directory is ~/tmp/emacs-test

Again the same results!!
I believe the same results should be repeatable, if running with 2
imap servers, one defined in the gnus-select-method variable and the
other in the gnus-secondary-select-methods.

Then the "primary" select method groups exist twice, once without group
prefix (ex INBOX) and once with (ex nnimap+gmx:INBOX).

[gnus-gmxAIA-2019-04-22T21-45-31.png (image/png, inline)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

It is surprising gnus asks username/password for a  "gmx+AIA", which is
weird. Doesn't make sense. Can it be a bug for trying to
merge/simplify the gnus select methods ? Is there any work, underway to
combine gnus-select-method and gnus-secondary-select-methods ?

Hope all this helps !


For my configuration:
  1. I have no /etc/emacs files.

  2. The $HOME/.emacs.d/init.el file is:

      (setq custom-file "~/customize.el")
      (load custom-file)
      (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8)

  3. The customize.el is attached.

     (custom-set-variables
 ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 '(custom-file "~/customize.el")
 '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
 '(gnus-message-archive-method '(nnimap "gmx"))
 '(gnus-nntp-server nil)
 '(gnus-nntpserver-file "/etc/news/spool")
 '(gnus-play-startup-jingle t)
 '(gnus-secondary-select-methods
   '((nnimap "AIA"
             (nnimap-address "imap-mail.outlook.com")
             (nnimap-stream ssl)
             (nnimap-server-port "imaps"))))
 '(gnus-secondary-servers nil)
 '(gnus-select-method
   '(nnimap "gmx"
            (nnimap-address "imap.gmx.com")
            (nnimap-server-port "imaps")
            (nnimap-stream ssl)
            (nnmail-expiry-target "Trash")
            (nnmail-expiry-wait immediate)))
 '(gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%o %I%(%[%4L: %-23,23f%]%) %s
")
 '(gnus-total-expirable-newsgroups "mail.test")
 '(gnus-use-trees nil)
 '(message-user-fqdn "myhome223.gr")
)
(custom-set-faces
 ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 )

Message #20 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:38:15 -0700

On 04/22/19 23:20 PM, Deus Max wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 22 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 14 2019, Basil L. Contovounesios wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Following the recent strange behaviors with gnus group buffers and other
>>>>> gnus related stuff, I decided to have a clean start for my gnus:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. removed the gnus start-up files:
>>>>>    mv .newsrc dot-newsrc
>>>>>    mv .newsrc.eld dot-newsrc.eld
>>>>>    mv .gnus.el dot-gnus.el   -- (empty anyway)
>>>>>    rm .*~
>>>>
>>>> Can you reproduce this starting from 'emacs -Q' in a clean HOME
>>>> directory, i.e. with
>>>>
>>>>   HOME=$(mktemp -d) emacs -Q
>>>>
>>>> or similar?  I ask because it is possible for something in your
>>>> configuration and/or home directory to be interfering, see e.g.
>>>> https://debbugs.gnu.org/35208#11
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Yes and I did.
>>> Repeating with a clean HOME directory gives the same results wrt
>>>           the gnus behavior described above.
>>
>> I'm trying to imagine what could be causing this behavior, and so far
>> haven't come up with any likely theories! You mentioned removing your
>> start-up files before starting this experiment, but you must have some
>> config in place to define the two imap servers: can you show me the
>> absolute minimum config sufficient to display this weirdness? (And would
>> you mind updating to the most recent master before you do? It's possible
>> some recent updates might have addressed this.)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>
> I tried this on Sat Apr. 20 and got the same results.
> Also today, by pulling to the latest commit:
>     : commit 981470e3590534a4d2947dfe5626cae832c6502d
>     : Author: Philipp Stephani <phst <at> google.com>
>     : Date:   Mon Apr 22 18:58:51 2019 +0200
>
> compiling with "make bootstrap" and running from a (almost) empty
> directory as:  ~HOME=$(pwd) Emacs~
> The HOME directory is ~/tmp/emacs-test
>
> Again the same results!!
> I believe the same results should be repeatable, if running with 2
> imap servers, one defined in the gnus-select-method variable and the
> other in the gnus-secondary-select-methods.

I've tried that with two of my own imap servers, but no luck, everything
works as expected.

> Then the "primary" select method groups exist twice, once without group
> prefix (ex INBOX) and once with (ex nnimap+gmx:INBOX).
>
>
>
> It is surprising gnus asks username/password for a  "gmx+AIA", which is
> weird. Doesn't make sense. Can it be a bug for trying to
> merge/simplify the gnus select methods ? Is there any work, underway to
> combine gnus-select-method and gnus-secondary-select-methods ?

Only in my head! It's something I would like to work on, but I haven't
started yet, so that can't be it. I really don't know how my changes
could have caused it.

> Hope all this helps !
>
>
> For my configuration:
>   1. I have no /etc/emacs files.
>
>   2. The $HOME/.emacs.d/init.el file is:
>
>       (setq custom-file "~/customize.el")
>       (load custom-file)
>       (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8)
>
>   3. The customize.el is attached.
>
>      (custom-set-variables
>  ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
>  ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
>  ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
>  ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
>  '(custom-file "~/customize.el")
>  '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
>  '(gnus-message-archive-method '(nnimap "gmx"))

Does this actually work? I would have thought you had to fully specify
the archive method.

>  '(gnus-nntp-server nil)

This is obsolete and you might as well delete it.

>  '(gnus-nntpserver-file "/etc/news/spool")
>  '(gnus-play-startup-jingle t)

This variable appears not to exist -- though it sounds both fascinating
and horrifying.

>  '(gnus-secondary-select-methods
>    '((nnimap "AIA"
>              (nnimap-address "imap-mail.outlook.com")
>              (nnimap-stream ssl)
>              (nnimap-server-port "imaps"))))
>  '(gnus-secondary-servers nil)

You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.

The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.

Eric

Message #23 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 21:09:25 +0300

On Tue, Apr 23 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

>
> You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
> showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
> more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.
>
> Eric

Great advice, thank you. I'll get rid of all the unnecessary stuff, as
you suggest and re-run with gnus-verbose 10 !
I'm curious to see the outcome !

Message #26 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 14:38:50 +0300

On Wed, Apr 24 2019, Deus Max wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 23 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>>
>> You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.
>>
>> The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
>> showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
>> more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.
>>
>> Eric
>
> Great advice, thank you. I'll get rid of all the unnecessary stuff, as
> you suggest and re-run with gnus-verbose 10 !
> I'm curious to see the outcome !

Well that was interesting !

The first surprise was when setting setting gnus-verbose and
gnus-verbose-backend, then running "M-x gnus", barely made a difference
to the amount of messages displayed !


After a few trials of tinkering with the customize variables, where
sometimes everything just worked and others back to square 1, the
culprit was identified as variable gnus-message-archive-method set to
'(nnimap "gmx").

Probably, having the gmx as the "primary" imap selection
(gnus-select-method) resulted in some interaction making the gmx groups
appear both as nnimap+gmx:Group and as plain Group (default).

Apparently, I don't understand well enough how the variables
gnus-message-archive-group and gnus-message-archive-method are supposed
to work.
Basically, since I use nnimap, when composing a new
message I don't want to see Gcc set to a nnfolder+archive group, but set
the current imap group. The following values now seem to work:
    : '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
    : '(gnus-message-archive-method "nnimap")

Message #29 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 09:17:53 -0700

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> On Wed, Apr 24 2019, Deus Max wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 23 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.
>>>
>>> The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
>>> showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
>>> more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>
>> Great advice, thank you. I'll get rid of all the unnecessary stuff, as
>> you suggest and re-run with gnus-verbose 10 !
>> I'm curious to see the outcome !
>
> Well that was interesting !
>
> The first surprise was when setting setting gnus-verbose and
> gnus-verbose-backend, then running "M-x gnus", barely made a difference
> to the amount of messages displayed !
>
>
> After a few trials of tinkering with the customize variables, where
> sometimes everything just worked and others back to square 1, the
> culprit was identified as variable gnus-message-archive-method set to
> '(nnimap "gmx").
>
> Probably, having the gmx as the "primary" imap selection
> (gnus-select-method) resulted in some interaction making the gmx groups
> appear both as nnimap+gmx:Group and as plain Group (default).

Right -- I think Gnus was trying to make a *new* server out of '(nnimap
"gmx"), which then sort of conflicts with your existing nnimap+gmx
server.

> Apparently, I don't understand well enough how the variables
> gnus-message-archive-group and gnus-message-archive-method are supposed
> to work.
> Basically, since I use nnimap, when composing a new
> message I don't want to see Gcc set to a nnfolder+archive group, but set
> the current imap group. The following values now seem to work:
>     : '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
>     : '(gnus-message-archive-method "nnimap")

Here's my understanding:

You can use archive-method and archive-group together, in which case
archive-group is understood to return a group name that exists on
archive-method. _Alternately_, archive-group can return a fully
qualified group name, in your case "nnimap+gmx:Send-Mail", in which case
archive-method will be completely ignored, and you don't need to set it
at all.

In your case, that's the easiest solution. If you really want to set
both options, I think you'd have to try harder to make sure that
archive-method matched your "real" nnimap+gmx server, ie they should
pass `gnus-server-equal'.

But like I said, that's unnecessary if archive-group returns a full
group name.

Eric

Message #32 received at 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>, 35270 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 00:57:20 +0300

On Sun, Apr 28 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 24 2019, Deus Max wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 23 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.
>>>>
>>>> The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
>>>> showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
>>>> more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>
>>> Great advice, thank you. I'll get rid of all the unnecessary stuff, as
>>> you suggest and re-run with gnus-verbose 10 !
>>> I'm curious to see the outcome !
>>
>> Well that was interesting !
>>
>>
>> Probably, having the gmx as the "primary" imap selection
>> (gnus-select-method) resulted in some interaction making the gmx groups
>> appear both as nnimap+gmx:Group and as plain Group (default).
>
> Right -- I think Gnus was trying to make a *new* server out of '(nnimap
> "gmx"), which then sort of conflicts with your existing nnimap+gmx
> server.
>
Still, having a bad option setting should not lead to such behavior.
Anyway, we can leave that for another time... !

>> Apparently, I don't understand well enough how the variables
>> gnus-message-archive-group and gnus-message-archive-method are supposed
>> to work.
>> Basically, since I use nnimap, when composing a new
>> message I don't want to see Gcc set to a nnfolder+archive group, but set
>> the current imap group. The following values now seem to work:
>>     : '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
>>     : '(gnus-message-archive-method "nnimap")
>
> Here's my understanding:
>
> You can use archive-method and archive-group together, in which case
> archive-group is understood to return a group name that exists on
> archive-method. _Alternately_, archive-group can return a fully
> qualified group name, in your case "nnimap+gmx:Send-Mail", in which case
> archive-method will be completely ignored, and you don't need to set it
> at all.
>
> In your case, that's the easiest solution. If you really want to set
> both options, I think you'd have to try harder to make sure that
> archive-method matched your "real" nnimap+gmx server, ie they should
> pass `gnus-server-equal'.
>
> But like I said, that's unnecessary if archive-group returns a full
> group name.
>

Thank you Eric !

Message #37 received at 35270-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: 35270-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#35270: 27.0.50;
 gnus nnimap weird interaction between select methods
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:48:03 -0700

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to gmane.emacs.bugs as well.

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> On Sun, Apr 28 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 24 2019, Deus Max wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 23 2019, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You might as well get rid of this too, as it's no longer used.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only other thing I can think of is setting `gnus-verbose' to 10 and
>>>>> showing us all the messages: that will at least tell you a little bit
>>>>> more about what Gnus thinks it's doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>> Great advice, thank you. I'll get rid of all the unnecessary stuff, as
>>>> you suggest and re-run with gnus-verbose 10 !
>>>> I'm curious to see the outcome !
>>>
>>> Well that was interesting !
>>>
>>>
>>> Probably, having the gmx as the "primary" imap selection
>>> (gnus-select-method) resulted in some interaction making the gmx groups
>>> appear both as nnimap+gmx:Group and as plain Group (default).
>>
>> Right -- I think Gnus was trying to make a *new* server out of '(nnimap
>> "gmx"), which then sort of conflicts with your existing nnimap+gmx
>> server.
>>
> Still, having a bad option setting should not lead to such behavior.
> Anyway, we can leave that for another time... !
>
>>> Apparently, I don't understand well enough how the variables
>>> gnus-message-archive-group and gnus-message-archive-method are supposed
>>> to work.
>>> Basically, since I use nnimap, when composing a new
>>> message I don't want to see Gcc set to a nnfolder+archive group, but set
>>> the current imap group. The following values now seem to work:
>>>     : '(gnus-message-archive-group '(lambda (grp) (if grp gnus-newsgroup-name "Send-Mail")))
>>>     : '(gnus-message-archive-method "nnimap")
>>
>> Here's my understanding:
>>
>> You can use archive-method and archive-group together, in which case
>> archive-group is understood to return a group name that exists on
>> archive-method. _Alternately_, archive-group can return a fully
>> qualified group name, in your case "nnimap+gmx:Send-Mail", in which case
>> archive-method will be completely ignored, and you don't need to set it
>> at all.
>>
>> In your case, that's the easiest solution. If you really want to set
>> both options, I think you'd have to try harder to make sure that
>> archive-method matched your "real" nnimap+gmx server, ie they should
>> pass `gnus-server-equal'.
>>
>> But like I said, that's unnecessary if archive-group returns a full
>> group name.
>>
>
> Thank you Eric !

My pleasure. Closing this bug...

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