Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2019 07:48:06 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 14 03:48:06 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hQSAQ-00082i-IO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:48:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60576) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1hQSAO-00082D-NA for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:48:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1hQSAI-0004d3-54; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:47:58 -0400 Received: from [2001:660:6102:320:e120:2c8f:8909:cdfe] (port=46816 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1hQSAH-0003UW-Nr; Tue, 14 May 2019 03:47:57 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> <20190512113242.583f9229@HIDDEN> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 25 =?utf-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 227 de la =?utf-8?Q?R?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 09:47:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190512113242.583f9229@HIDDEN> (Danny Milosavljevic's message of "Sun, 12 May 2019 11:32:42 +0200") Message-ID: <87tvdx32ac.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 Cc: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN>, 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Danny, Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@HIDDEN> skribis: > Better would be if the cache directory contained a "cache-protocol-versio= n" > file or something and make the client program heed it and make it clear t= he > cache if it's the wrong version, without any Guix special case (the probl= em > is not not Guix-specific anyway). I=E2=80=99d be surprised if applications and libraries using ~/.cache such = as Mesa didn=E2=80=99t have some versioning mechanism allowing them to detect = stale cache files. Overall, Guix isn=E2=80=99t special in that respect. The problem we experienced with Mesa shader caches are probably not Guix-specific. I think we should try to gather more info about the stale .cache files that trigger a Mesa crash so that we can make a useful bug report to the Mesa developers. (I=E2=80=99m saying this as someone who did not experience the crash, heheh= . :-)) Thoughts? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 21:30:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 17:30:30 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43519 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPw3C-0006sG-ND for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:30:30 -0400 Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:33132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <swedebugia@HIDDEN>) id 1hPw3B-0006s8-0E for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:30:30 -0400 Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35BDF1A332B for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1557696628; bh=zD9+YQy8mnJV7ABHZYz4gzx4iVyaDuKCIP2DsUp010A=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=TC6mpMhX/i85GJexRVEMOiuP16kRFNtthifKIRu2RVRnbv8KjYUR3tEY+kCYBLr9g u3tMdKvnjm3NSG52gkfqF9+cQ4PdOQabeW6EDm9EV/tIFicsbhk3FMpRVz3LdH2NDK 7IFrb7O7Z0/rgZweU54Q2bMPosvcSsnf5TxIN2jk= X-Riseup-User-ID: BF6A4B4E9E39B3DC20F9F7DAFF11CAD2F7567705FD5046BA3083A29491BCD4EE Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 659EE120502 for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) To: 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhntxlj4.fsf@nckx> <87tve1f8oq.fsf@HIDDEN> From: swedebugia <swedebugia@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <7367fb7b-7ee9-6a33-4a99-aee6be025276@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 23:29:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tve1f8oq.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2019-05-11 14:59, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > Hello Tobias, > > Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> writes: ... >>> often users have to delete something in some .cache by guessing, >>> "just" >>> to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all >>> distros) >> >> I have never had to do this, ever. I have no memories having to do this either during the last 15 years. ... > [1] having data in .cache that crashes applications and services is bad > design IMHO, let alone having configuration in .cache +1 -- Cheers Swedebugia
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 09:32:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 12 05:32:50 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPkqf-00014Z-VA for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 05:32:50 -0400 Received: from dd26836.kasserver.com ([85.13.145.193]:33482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <dannym@HIDDEN>) id 1hPkqe-00014R-DU for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 05:32:48 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [185.17.13.127]) by dd26836.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D8713360AAC; Sun, 12 May 2019 11:32:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 11:32:42 +0200 From: Danny Milosavljevic <dannym@HIDDEN> To: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) Message-ID: <20190512113242.583f9229@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.3 (GTK+ 2.24.32; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/_Yh/JoqGgNK3UYGNi2xXgyF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 Cc: 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --Sig_/_Yh/JoqGgNK3UYGNi2xXgyF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > What should we do about this? For gdm I think it would make sense to > add an activation service extension that clears the gdm user=E2=80=99s ho= me > directory. And more generally, maybe we should offer a generic cache > cleaner service. I don't like that workaround much. I mean for the time being I guess it's OK, but let's file bug reports upstream so they are aware of the problem. Better would be if the cache directory contained a "cache-protocol-version" file or something and make the client program heed it and make it clear the cache if it's the wrong version, without any Guix special case (the problem is not not Guix-specific anyway). It's not exactly difficult. Most of the time the bug reports just don't get filed--and cache invalidation is always an afterthought when=20 implementing a cache (sadly). If they say no we can still keep the workaround. --Sig_/_Yh/JoqGgNK3UYGNi2xXgyF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEds7GsXJ0tGXALbPZ5xo1VCwwuqUFAlzX6DoACgkQ5xo1VCww uqXB6ggAjLdkLT4kE6S9kmGZxGwycdzccd2j9OVoZU8JfqA/0iPHDEQeGKzR+Mt2 B9H8Yif5FAX8NAMdVXAlrVarE13K6FPMgzhxhTivPEilWlgfEoMHUbDlpcQCDAzJ ZSuENiOX7oDOhCvj78dooSv5HqwdorssLlrHivWX1Cko+USKiTCDa323lxtBMF5m MQ1EJQUBlqUd5/93jZBY5Iu59wQF87af0lgltBxZg0J+LkQKGgqth5dzYoqqyWrH wm6HUwT5/utMZEunB8kUkF57YJB341V60aftRL8pL40pgYGFQpFlxhsaFD9Mcelb s0tObzJwmjccFFuFIa+ipncN46bIOQ== =nBAn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/_Yh/JoqGgNK3UYGNi2xXgyF--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 13:00:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 09:00:22 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40049 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPRbx-00068g-WD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 09:00:22 -0400 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:36192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPRbu-00068N-BQ for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 09:00:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABBE3000F8; Sat, 11 May 2019 13:00:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EyLIH7xGVoVj; Sat, 11 May 2019 12:59:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 046B43000D2; Sat, 11 May 2019 12:59:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id E183D300A04; Sat, 11 May 2019 14:59:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 19844 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 11 May 2019 12:59:50 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN> To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN>, 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) In-Reply-To: <87zhntxlj4.fsf@nckx> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhntxlj4.fsf@nckx> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 14:59:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87tve1f8oq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tobias, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> writes: > Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: >> AFAIU unfortunately we have application/library state all over=20 >> .cache(s) >> that sometimes crashes software *and* trying to fix this=20 >> upstream it's >> _not_ an option [1] > > Oh. That's=E2=80=A6 disappointing to say the least, since these are both= =20 > upstream bugs that Guix can't fix :-( > > What exactly did you ask? What was their response? I did not ask upstream, sorry for the misunderstanding: I'm just sharing my *personal* experience, and I confess I never tried to report this class of bugs upstream, I just fixed the issue with "rm <somewhere>/.cache/<something>" AFAIO (as far as I'm observing) this is a common pattern, for some current Guix bug reports too (see previously provided links) to be clear: I'm not stating we should not report upstream and help them :-) >> often users have to delete something in some .cache by guessing,=20 >> "just" >> to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all=20 >> distros) > > I have never had to do this, ever. lucky? :-) or Very Stateless=E2=84=A2 userland configuration? I'm not saying I had to do this sort of cache cleaning every week, but I had to do that Too Often=E2=84=A2 to be accepteble to me, on multiple installations in 10 years [...] > We can randomly delete whole caches in the user's stead but it's=20 > never the =E2=80=98right=E2=80=99 solution. I agree, but please consider that we have to manage some upstream defects [1], sometimes :-S > Only the application can manage its caches properly. I still hope > this is possible in both cases here. OK, but meanwhile? IMHO it's not acceptable to have critical Guix services (e.g. GDM) blocked by similar issues ...and sometimes (often?) statefullness of .cache is not considered upstream, so I suspect this class of upstream bugs are _not_ going to end soon Thank you for your contribution! Gio' [1] having data in .cache that crashes applications and services is bad design IMHO, let alone having configuration in .cache =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlzWx0UACgkQ030Op87M ORLSfg//XKNN1zHZ9jCaGUP+BC5n8yilLHIWYAXD4iYSWsbz68VXT9uPOtSyzz5I +xjs7Js5dThAAQu2ivbL4LtN/4twcChx1Ri2JOLBogkKzMTBn37gCr5AIKVODXB0 SojObxe1TKIqg7XUdXgfz3qTSkgk53op2B2ZOWLCAbxRH51hXWdzwqVrrZRphcGa hfppOjCkae1+pgt4TZt2U1inzFzG/M6/ybXEIBrQYIeykWFtKvP4Dw5lEt1FYnvC YTAR91B/Di4W2KJoFEdbNOTftvS24G+lo1oPvOt22s/fO7P7ScFjmGzLj834DVc/ 2dO25sJ/8DoHmV7UF8PvqJ8p+QJiYpqw6zGefq/17kTwc0Xr5RTg5yqSLSzZQoGE uEG+A4pa+DLcBf64qDRj8fYm/zQH5tUqpWhzeSjxw4Fi63yzabB9pqGN/3HQe1Ib PQqDIJhH9fLpNurin0xu0LA5JN5wy9tbgOQJ03XLFG9Efe2dD/zMZBoxdqSgD3sA iYa6bD5TYXkkg+/Q2T/wj5w984fBZ8jWmGE2Jx3C+6U2yUIY9z8U6yAy6SNRylNq LxfGFxTCfp+jzO4YCDWMLn4ViDrh2XfyymsSiEx7GCcu3y2Iki/q/fEdone/vZCG NGlr32MxEHqinlEXyEK3NwJQ771to7oMqm7yoInTyuZ3KsQLJzA= =kxT/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 11:51:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 07:51:19 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPQX9-0004R3-BI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:51:19 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([80.241.217.52]:39270) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQX6-0004Qv-Vp for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:51:17 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 62b8554b; Sat, 11 May 2019 11:51:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@HIDDEN; bh=sNqDDRP01OaFS/OgCf+qFb xL/Ee4nWf8gPSpjDflZ34=; b=U43Fx/k6gfbnHuGnEUHqPdB890k0upDWRYhneQ fEX+qTBCc9ViH6r7OpB8Au36ZQrj0SW458d5jSwj6ima+eOBUZ6tpgevve2mmHLn vIuUXP3DqPFsGOTSJoUbv3Y0CtOZH2VwFaFGHWIDr9nA30K5I3nufL0uVEfOlEFj LLtKu6XrKkkmS7KNR11Px9ihb9jvKdCpO6K6EJioT4ZGBiv1T05V3fY1eAa0VSn3 dXbMThna5KaY9fj7Tujk6Lux1A8x4AxU6yZC1fZTC7sZxu5h1hY5KA2zxFWnic7Q 2o4wBCcun/GD2CWnVidtalC0qOrP8pjzl9mWMkScO2vWU7WQ== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id bd535c4d (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 11 May 2019 11:51:15 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> To: Julien Lepiller <julien@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> <052F5639-AD7F-4AF5-8225-CFC5FBA8E3F3@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <052F5639-AD7F-4AF5-8225-CFC5FBA8E3F3@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 13:51:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87y33dxl8s.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 Cc: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN>, 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Julien, Julien Lepiller wrote: > I wonder if we could mount a tmpfs on .cache? Would that be > enough? Seems a shame to waste RAM like that, when we could (ab)use FUSE: <https://github.com/xrgtn/nullfs>. ;-) T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNa3MwAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eRCGAQDihdDMllPuGVY4nz9gs+tl/pk0k1lwBLGC1dXVNGlxKQD+ND9ANhyPKpiQ W4sAtc+yuIKo4sWVaIMphrVi2mydKAo= =mEqf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 11:45:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 07:45:12 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39984 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPQRE-0004IU-9d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:12 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([80.241.217.52]:39044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRA-0004ID-Rd for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:10 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 152c24cd; Sat, 11 May 2019 11:45:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@HIDDEN; bh=TFFysA08+nWwX6vXJi9+A4 OGwaWYwsNk+9xYqeoLVug=; b=J2W/p8LYtC3dYzxKEXEBI+EsCZKtc5B3OYV7tV 9UZJGgG4g9080fg2iZV4NJjNLdzT0DJbPVThgUgoZjtk2rQdc3nf9w5lW9FmdyRC j8aVzSm2PBnaxZbNiGqY+lXFzIFixWwTyg/1BtfuH0U0/VRcwlLvNQPGmzj1zgvF kH8f1+iQWicePy6WjMo7GlBlr8MiPVWEKPXi0MNp1Q+O2WB3FJb5sU+0w30LkaO3 3MUTXdHybWOOPwihNhNFjBX7LNKHSb5BjBtMtfdJviS+eX7Tt5t/rez6hEp7rJa5 iXloVGCujoMe5IZa5YQax9mxmDQesriigly4BTvanBWxAr3w== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id ae251ed0 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 11 May 2019 11:45:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> To: bug-guix@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 13:45:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87zhntxlj4.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 Cc: 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ehlo Giovanni, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > AFAIU unfortunately we have application/library state all over=20 > .cache(s) > that sometimes crashes software *and* trying to fix this=20 > upstream it's > _not_ an option [1] Oh. That's=E2=80=A6 disappointing to say the least, since these are both=20 upstream bugs that Guix can't fix :-( What exactly did you ask? What was their response? > often users have to delete something in some .cache by guessing,=20 > "just" > to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all=20 > distros) I have never had to do this, ever. > maybe an activation service extension proposed by Ricardo (see=20 > above) > is the right solution: I'll try to make a summary of prevoius > discussions on this topic on guix-devel to help address this=20 > (class of) > issue(s)... sorry I cannot help coding it We can randomly delete whole caches in the user's stead but it's=20 never the =E2=80=98right=E2=80=99 solution. Only the application can manag= e its=20 caches properly. I still hope this is possible in both cases=20 here. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNa1vwAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eY9CAP9j7HD4E0GYs+y2XfY2uv1czexfcR59RMGz0poLNSKFCAEArzyw8t7wNbEr iBpoLXIAW9d94G3VdwbFsTZpcPu1lwE= =N4JP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 11:45:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 07:45:33 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPQRZ-0004J2-Jb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55767) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRW-0004In-4M for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:32 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50557) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRQ-0002VR-VR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41901) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRP-0006jX-SX for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:24 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRM-0002Om-14 for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:21 -0400 Received: from tobias.gr ([2001:470:7405::1]:56444) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1hPQRF-0002Bq-5y for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:45:14 -0400 Received: by tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 152c24cd; Sat, 11 May 2019 11:45:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=tobias.gr; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=2018; i=me@HIDDEN; bh=TFFysA08+nWwX6vXJi9+A4 OGwaWYwsNk+9xYqeoLVug=; b=J2W/p8LYtC3dYzxKEXEBI+EsCZKtc5B3OYV7tV 9UZJGgG4g9080fg2iZV4NJjNLdzT0DJbPVThgUgoZjtk2rQdc3nf9w5lW9FmdyRC j8aVzSm2PBnaxZbNiGqY+lXFzIFixWwTyg/1BtfuH0U0/VRcwlLvNQPGmzj1zgvF kH8f1+iQWicePy6WjMo7GlBlr8MiPVWEKPXi0MNp1Q+O2WB3FJb5sU+0w30LkaO3 3MUTXdHybWOOPwihNhNFjBX7LNKHSb5BjBtMtfdJviS+eX7Tt5t/rez6hEp7rJa5 iXloVGCujoMe5IZa5YQax9mxmDQesriigly4BTvanBWxAr3w== Received: by submission.tobias.gr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id ae251ed0 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 11 May 2019 11:45:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> To: bug-guix@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 13:45:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87zhntxlj4.fsf@nckx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:470:7405::1 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ehlo Giovanni, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > AFAIU unfortunately we have application/library state all over=20 > .cache(s) > that sometimes crashes software *and* trying to fix this=20 > upstream it's > _not_ an option [1] Oh. That's=E2=80=A6 disappointing to say the least, since these are both=20 upstream bugs that Guix can't fix :-( What exactly did you ask? What was their response? > often users have to delete something in some .cache by guessing,=20 > "just" > to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all=20 > distros) I have never had to do this, ever. > maybe an activation service extension proposed by Ricardo (see=20 > above) > is the right solution: I'll try to make a summary of prevoius > discussions on this topic on guix-devel to help address this=20 > (class of) > issue(s)... sorry I cannot help coding it We can randomly delete whole caches in the user's stead but it's=20 never the =E2=80=98right=E2=80=99 solution. Only the application can manag= e its=20 caches properly. I still hope this is possible in both cases=20 here. Kind regards, T G-R --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQT12iAyS4c9C3o4dnINsP+IT1VteQUCXNa1vwAKCRANsP+IT1Vt eY9CAP9j7HD4E0GYs+y2XfY2uv1czexfcR59RMGz0poLNSKFCAEArzyw8t7wNbEr iBpoLXIAW9d94G3VdwbFsTZpcPu1lwE= =N4JP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 07:51:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 03:51:00 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPMma-0004yU-F0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:51:00 -0400 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:33610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMmY-0004yG-9K for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:50:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D74A300EF1 for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:50:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdVnFtBoxsL0 for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:50:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6912300EE3 for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:50:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id 74C62300A04 for <35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 11 May 2019 09:50:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 14323 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 11 May 2019 07:50:27 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN> To: 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) In-Reply-To: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> Organization: Xelera.eu References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 09:50:27 +0200 Message-ID: <8736llh1ks.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN> writes: > AFAIU issues like the two I point below are becoming a common pattern > and are *critical* linked bug report: =2D bug#35669: Mesa is failing an assertion [...] =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlzWfsMACgkQ030Op87M ORLJYBAAoU69aLa9+sprjXwA8jwFn1QJ05Xjdj0SAfcKw74ylj+NBiORkuL8/hrC fmrC9nMQdXtYMpep8I1rvJpki/XkSq4GQEZZZVvmZS9LoG0OrxPRt7e1d5+UqkV8 Th6VNvV+nJGwLqVsGPSozNwDB4wb3tDI+4yGFBXdCT2+iJvfFOh0aPZb7GKyyJdL nimDKgyvLiT/mmV0CTFvygDE/nsXplc37Xkvk59tdnH9al612EM5dehE6oVTZ8bl I7x2bTiVZ8d/98T0CuR/f1M8F/O89ElE9ShjP0SYQRD9ShwZOCA9baxg8AtmDWkA GFrcX0fhtCWpMTh68iFO5ZzxLpTfZPkjGSksysvcll/ShgAsnsinc6vlqeqp7mKm KimHBAmEErRjj24adrH62Euz+VFLYeMZkVerBtlqyxGUANf0mG3u2wVMRp0H/g74 Hm7NrPMJ9n1Qa72HelrMdiBSlc+MzBrc0jADBjhftTNmQU9iet2dF1qHc96+rdUP 3fMkbetdz5Nhn02KYawu8nUcAiNelTAwV82csn4bNwuvYF7uOXczOJcir4lhYWGA IktLT1eeS3A9rSOIq/9Idy7oB9T8dbeWuaK4kOoVzbJ1dJZQlIWTeT8INt4iYTAG Y2wjT5bohr/di+VC7WLCljliFPno7VdRN2U4LmGt2WLoMncJxRo= =lQQa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 35683) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 07:44:05 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 03:44:05 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPMft-0004nk-A5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:44:05 -0400 Received: from lepiller.eu ([89.234.186.109]:60876) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <julien@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMfr-0004nR-8J for 35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:44:04 -0400 Received: from [100.106.60.163] (exit4-cph.censurfritinternet.dk [185.162.229.116]) by lepiller.eu (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 90c89e01 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sat, 11 May 2019 07:43:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 09:43:44 +0200 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: bug#35683: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) To: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN>,35683 <at> debbugs.gnu.org From: Julien Lepiller <julien@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <052F5639-AD7F-4AF5-8225-CFC5FBA8E3F3@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 35683 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Le 11 mai 2019 09:32:43 GMT+02:00, Giovanni Biscuolo <g@xelera=2Eeu> a =C3= =A9crit : >Hi Guix, > >AFAIU issues like the two I point below are becoming a common pattern >and are *critical* > >1=2E gnome session not starting due to state in $HOME/=2Ecache > http://lists=2Egnu=2Eorg/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-04/msg00177=2Eht= ml > Message-ID: <87ef68ibfy=2Efsf@elephly=2Enet> > >Ricardo Wurmus: >--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >What should we do about this? For gdm I think it would make sense to >add an activation service extension that clears the gdm user=E2=80=99s ho= me >directory=2E And more generally, maybe we should offer a generic cache >cleaner service=2E >--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > >2=2E X broken display transitioning from llvm6 to llvm7 in the mesa >package > http://lists=2Egnu=2Eorg/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-05/msg00223=2Eht= ml > Message-ID: <20190511022009=2Ennu6szga6desvfwd@cf0> > see also https://debbugs=2Egnu=2Eorg/cgi/bugreport=2Ecgi?bug=3D35575 > >ison: >--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >Note that deleting both shader caches was required, and also if the >caches get >rebuilt on a new generation and then I try to boot into an older >previously >working generation then that generation will display graphics artifacts >until >the caches are deleted again=2E > >So switching between mesa compiled with llvm 6 and 7 on AMD RX 580 >either >backward or forward requires manually deleting the shader caches=2E >--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > >AFAIU unfortunately we have application/library state all over >=2Ecache(s) >that sometimes crashes software *and* trying to fix this upstream it's >_not_ an option [1] > >often users have to delete something in some =2Ecache by guessing, "just" >to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all distros) > >maybe an activation service extension proposed by Ricardo (see above) >is the right solution: I'll try to make a summary of prevoius >discussions on this topic on guix-devel to help address this (class of) >issue(s)=2E=2E=2E sorry I cannot help coding it > >WDYT? > >Thanks! Gio' > > > >[1] I say this observing this class of issues since I started using >free >software: am I wrong? I wonder if we could mount a tmpfs on =2Ecache? Would that be enough?
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#35683; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2019 07:33:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 11 03:33:19 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39773 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1hPMVS-0004V8-QG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMVQ-0004Ut-Jf for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:17 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMVL-0006I9-AK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38948) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMVJ-0005zW-Vt for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:11 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMVI-0006Gb-TS for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:09 -0400 Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([46.4.214.66]:38258) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <g@HIDDEN>) id 1hPMVI-0006Er-J9 for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Sat, 11 May 2019 03:33:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (ip6-localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5E5300690 for <bug-guix@HIDDEN>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:33:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ns13.heimat.it Received: from ns13.heimat.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns13.heimat.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fWOTfxDqC6Z for <bug-guix@HIDDEN>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:32:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bourrache.mug.xelera.it (unknown [93.56.161.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by ns13.heimat.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23754300682 for <bug-guix@HIDDEN>; Sat, 11 May 2019 07:32:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from roquette.mug.biscuolo.net (roquette.mug.biscuolo.net [10.38.2.14]) by bourrache.mug.xelera.it (Postfix) with SMTP id 03F68300A04 for <bug-guix@HIDDEN>; Sat, 11 May 2019 09:32:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (nullmailer pid 13996 invoked by uid 1000); Sat, 11 May 2019 07:32:44 -0000 From: Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN> To: bug-guix@HIDDEN Subject: wishlist: addessing statefulness of .cache(s) Organization: Xelera.eu Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 09:32:43 +0200 Message-ID: <878svdh2ec.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 46.4.214.66 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guix, AFAIU issues like the two I point below are becoming a common pattern and are *critical* 1. gnome session not starting due to state in $HOME/.cache http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-04/msg00177.html Message-ID: <87ef68ibfy.fsf@HIDDEN> Ricardo Wurmus: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- What should we do about this? For gdm I think it would make sense to add an activation service extension that clears the gdm user=E2=80=99s home directory. And more generally, maybe we should offer a generic cache cleaner service. =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- 2. X broken display transitioning from llvm6 to llvm7 in the mesa package http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-05/msg00223.html Message-ID: <20190511022009.nnu6szga6desvfwd@cf0> see also https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D35575 ison: =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- Note that deleting both shader caches was required, and also if the caches = get rebuilt on a new generation and then I try to boot into an older previously working generation then that generation will display graphics artifacts unt= il the caches are deleted again. So switching between mesa compiled with llvm 6 and 7 on AMD RX 580 either backward or forward requires manually deleting the shader caches. =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- AFAIU unfortunately we have application/library state all over .cache(s) that sometimes crashes software *and* trying to fix this upstream it's _not_ an option [1] often users have to delete something in some .cache by guessing, "just" to solve some strange software crash (this is common to all distros) maybe an activation service extension proposed by Ricardo (see above) is the right solution: I'll try to make a summary of prevoius discussions on this topic on guix-devel to help address this (class of) issue(s)... sorry I cannot help coding it WDYT? Thanks! Gio' [1] I say this observing this class of issues since I started using free software: am I wrong? =2D-=20 Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEERcxjuFJYydVfNLI5030Op87MORIFAlzWepwACgkQ030Op87M ORJC9BAAzAUXxugtcoC+qRSWcJnEMR29uuxvKdYk4w+/XGkvj+VQrrxUMkYa1mTf Jt5U5EXm1P6Vu7KwVnajffC5Ml3Tjf+0zZadxjmK5bcZmAU2VF0W6NqyVG9MqJFR CJIusxuvwdxjBPlal3feFR8G1DrksF3O/iLkLj0vtCC+a2Or69qgSS5ZcMkDpMcq f8CfMLD7fNU2ewIz7Y1JhZiR492F2JIvgA7DHxoUzj8IcCE6BVDF0EaW/RC63kXg /9T+nyLChyZ1GXvfmNRr1ykPcIb9hFnEIleglnPXESkOr1JY47o+RqSapVRvW+5a YghTMXHlC3+G7XKpUzo0yvhG352z4W2LiAamoiAP1oPnG13oT6dC3JqtOQ8Gz3Hq ersy7L40NG0fZ9P9gh9eG/HxUcdJ2J/RH2elVnB3lHCZhLrs72pSD8/A5+8IvNlU F0NxglZ4SEUF+DeQHcj0A/OdD4zLFFPOFq8TFEke9G7Bke0p95g339JBGdrrDCfg KhnOPFToarptOSCnOP5u64TCwgBS7E5K6fypp5sfPGusw6Y6840mM9SkXEwmEMTK I4mFqzEBQztwYpcdQ2EgpWzKNSXj8GnnS3HdM6QiNiQqSsRpWLxxEiJgGmeMiCh6 4JBJHAG961O4NmUnUE2YLv42tETNHiOqygHNXETBghGzRYLQPmU= =CUo9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
Giovanni Biscuolo <g@HIDDEN>:bug-guix@HIDDEN.
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