GNU bug report logs - #36380
service urandom-seed takes too long on boot

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Package: guix; Severity: important; Reported by: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>; dated Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:13:02 UTC; Maintainer for guix is bug-guix@HIDDEN.

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Just ran across this article about Debian dealing with similar issues.

https://daniel-lange.com/archives/152-hello-buster.html

One of the suggested work-arounds is to rely on virtio_rng on
virtual machines, but it seems Guix already uses that on my machine,
so perhaps it doesn=E2=80=99t help:

rob@garp ~$ cat /sys/devices/virtual/misc/hw_random/rng_available=20
virtio_rng.0=20
rob@garp ~$ cat /sys/devices/virtual/misc/hw_random/rng_current=20
virtio_rng.0





Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
References: <F88CEF04-9BFA-4886-8A2D-AD84AE278D07@HIDDEN>
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Hi Leo,

Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis:

> On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 01:24:01PM -0400, Leo Famulari wrote:
>> So, I suggest we add a 1 second timeout to this read.
>>=20
>> I can work on that next week.
>
> I did try working on this, after reading the code in (guix scripts
> offload (call-with-timeout)).

The =E2=80=98start=E2=80=99 method of the =E2=80=98urandom-seed=E2=80=99 Sh=
epherd service runs in PID=C2=A01,
so we certainly don=E2=80=99t want to fiddle with SIGALRM in that context, =
which
is what =E2=80=98call-with-timeout=E2=80=99 does.

Instead, I think we should use =E2=80=98select=E2=80=99 with a timeout:

  (call-with-input-file "/dev/hwrng"
    (lambda (port)
      (match (select (list port) '() '() 3)
        =E2=80=A6)))

I think we can then use =E2=80=98get-bytevector-n!=E2=80=99, assuming it do=
esn=E2=80=99t block
if less than COUNT bytes are available (I=E2=80=99m not sure this is the ca=
se.)

HTH!

Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 13:44:55 -0400
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 01:24:01PM -0400, Leo Famulari wrote:
> So, I suggest we add a 1 second timeout to this read.
>=20
> I can work on that next week.

I did try working on this, after reading the code in (guix scripts
offload (call-with-timeout)).

But, I couldn't make it work at all =E2=80=94 it always fails, with all the
services depending on urandom-seed-service failing, breaking the boot.

I don't know how to debug or work interactively in this part of the
system.

Can anybody help?

--liOOAslEiF7prFVr
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bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:24:01 -0400
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
Message-ID: <20190628172401.GA17073@HIDDEN>
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On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:47:35AM +0200, Robert Vollmert wrote:
> > On 27. Jun 2019, at 21:03, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> wrote:
> > Perhaps, but if the reason for the slowness on their first boot was a
> > suboptimal /dev/hwrng source, I would expect it to be equally slow for
> > each boot, since we unconditionally read 64 bytes each time.
>=20
> It=E2=80=99s 512 bytes, not that that should fundamentally change anythin=
g.

Oh right, my bad. It's been a while...

Anyways, this should either work immediately or fail. Aside from
getrandom(2), which we aren't using here, nothing related to this stuff
should ever block, and if it does then it's a bug we need to work
around.

So, I suggest we add a 1 second timeout to this read.

I can work on that next week.

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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
From: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
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> On 27. Jun 2019, at 21:03, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Perhaps, but if the reason for the slowness on their first boot was a
> suboptimal /dev/hwrng source, I would expect it to be equally slow for
> each boot, since we unconditionally read 64 bytes each time.

It=E2=80=99s 512 bytes, not that that should fundamentally change =
anything.





Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 36380 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis:

> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 05:20:21PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote:
>> We had a =E2=80=9Cbug report=E2=80=9D at
>> <https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=3D20190624#guixsd>, which may =
be
>> due to the same issue:
>>=20
>>   The first time I loaded Guix the boot process took an unusually long
>>   time.  At one point the system appeared to lock up for about five
>>   minutes before continuing.  In the end, from boot menu to graphical
>>   login screen, the start-up time totalled about ten minutes.
>
> Perhaps, but if the reason for the slowness on their first boot was a
> suboptimal /dev/hwrng source, I would expect it to be equally slow for
> each boot, since we unconditionally read 64 bytes each time.

Perhaps VirtualBox behaves this way?  For instance, the VM was rebooted
but VirtualBox itself was still running, and thus it had a good random
seed to start from on the second boot (does that make sense?).  I guess
we should try.

> They are using an old machine with a spinning disk, so who knows...

Still, what else could be taking this long?

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:19:15 -0400
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 06:02:03PM +0200, Robert Vollmert wrote:
> It=E2=80=99s with arpnetworks.com, their default =E2=80=9Csmall" VPS. I d=
on=E2=80=99t
> really know more; here=E2=80=99s some dmesg output that might be relevant,
> happy to provide more info.

Okay, I've asked them about it on IRC:

http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_log/arpnetworks?date=3D2019-06-2=
7,Thu

Let's wait and see what they think about the issue.

--J/dobhs11T7y2rNN
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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
Message-ID: <20190627190314.GA7403@HIDDEN>
References: <F88CEF04-9BFA-4886-8A2D-AD84AE278D07@HIDDEN>
 <20190626154721.GA2999@HIDDEN> <87zhm3xdfu.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 05:20:21PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote:
> We had a =E2=80=9Cbug report=E2=80=9D at
> <https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=3D20190624#guixsd>, which may be
> due to the same issue:
>=20
>   The first time I loaded Guix the boot process took an unusually long
>   time.  At one point the system appeared to lock up for about five
>   minutes before continuing.  In the end, from boot menu to graphical
>   login screen, the start-up time totalled about ten minutes.

Perhaps, but if the reason for the slowness on their first boot was a
suboptimal /dev/hwrng source, I would expect it to be equally slow for
each boot, since we unconditionally read 64 bytes each time.

However, their next sentence says, "Curiously, after the first boot,
Guix started up considerably faster, generally taking less than a minute
to arrive at the login screen."

They are using an old machine with a spinning disk, so who knows...

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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.
Severity set to 'important' from 'normal' Request was from Ludovic Courtès <ludo@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 36380 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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Hi Leo,

Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis:

> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:12:28PM +0200, Robert Vollmert wrote:
>> On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
>> time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
>> and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.
>
> Yikes, that's way too long. Can you say what VPS it is?

We had a =E2=80=9Cbug report=E2=80=9D at
<https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=3D20190624#guixsd>, which may be
due to the same issue:

  The first time I loaded Guix the boot process took an unusually long
  time.  At one point the system appeared to lock up for about five
  minutes before continuing.  In the end, from boot menu to graphical
  login screen, the start-up time totalled about ten minutes.

The author says they were running Guix in VirtualBox.  I=E2=80=99m glad Rob=
ert=E2=80=99s
bug report has more info than that one.  :-)

What should we do?

Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 36380 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
From: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
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> On 26. Jun 2019, at 17:47, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> wrote:
>=20
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:12:28PM +0200, Robert Vollmert wrote:
>> On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
>> time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
>> and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.
>=20
> Yikes, that's way too long. Can you say what VPS it is?

It=E2=80=99s with arpnetworks.com, their default =E2=80=9Csmall" VPS. I =
don=E2=80=99t
really know more; here=E2=80=99s some dmesg output that might be =
relevant,
happy to provide more info.

[    0.000000] DMI: QEMU Standard PC (i440FX + PIIX, 1996), BIOS =
Ubuntu-1.8.2-1ubuntu1.1 04/01/2014
[    0.000000] Hypervisor detected: KVM
[    0.000000] kvm-clock: Using msrs 4b564d01 and 4b564d00
[    0.000000] kvm-clock: cpu 0, msr 2a782001, primary cpu clock
[    0.000000] kvm-clock: using sched offset of 1160634602574609 cycles
[    0.000002] clocksource: kvm-clock: mask: 0xffffffffffffffff =
max_cycles: 0x1cd42e4dffb, max_idle_ns: 881590591483 ns
[    0.000004] tsc: Detected 3066.774 MHz processor





Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:47:21 -0400
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:12:28PM +0200, Robert Vollmert wrote:
> On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
> time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
> and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.

Yikes, that's way too long. Can you say what VPS it is?

> I would suggest skipping the seeding from /dev/hwrng by default
> if /var/lib/random-seed is available. I=E2=80=99m assuming here that my
> problem is not too rare =E2=80=94 if it is, an option to disable the
> seeding from /dev/hwrng seems like a good idea.

Originally I added the HWRNG read specifically the for VM / VPS use case
[0], where the first boot environment is relatively deterministic. I
agree it's superfluous if the random-seed file is handled properly but
it's nice to unconditionally have this other entropy source that avoids
the pitfalls of file-based entropy seeding.

Ideally the hypervisor would seed the guest's HWRNG interface with the
host's /dev/urandom, which would avoid significant delays. It seems they
are using some other more limited resource instead.

Does anyone else have an opinion or experience with this issue? It would
be great to know how widespread it is.

[0]
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/commit/?id=3D9a56cf2b5b4970843c2=
15091ea9823a67e077310
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-12/msg00096.html

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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 36380 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@HIDDEN>
To: bug-guix@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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Hi Robert,

Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> writes:

> On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
> time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
> and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.
>
> I would suggest skipping the seeding from /dev/hwrng by default
> if /var/lib/random-seed is available. I=E2=80=99m assuming here that my
> problem is not too rare =E2=80=94 if it is, an option to disable the
> seeding from /dev/hwrng seems like a good idea.

I'm not sure I'm qualified on best practices with regard to urandom, but
anecdotally, my servers are booting pretty fast, within a minute,
consistently.  This is even when booting a qemu virtual image rather
than a VPS.

Perhaps something else is going on here?

Alex




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Alex Sassmannshausen <alex.sassmannshausen@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#36380: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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Hi Robert,

Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN> writes:

> On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
> time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
> and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.
>
> I would suggest skipping the seeding from /dev/hwrng by default
> if /var/lib/random-seed is available. I=E2=80=99m assuming here that my
> problem is not too rare =E2=80=94 if it is, an option to disable the
> seeding from /dev/hwrng seems like a good idea.

I'm not sure I'm qualified on best practices with regard to urandom, but
anecdotally, my servers are booting pretty fast, within a minute,
consistently.  This is even when booting a qemu virtual image rather
than a VPS.

Perhaps something else is going on here?

Alex




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>
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Subject: service urandom-seed takes too long on boot
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 20:12:28 +0200
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On my VPS, booting takes forever (long enough that for a long
time I thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,
and it took over 7 minutes, see attached screenshot.

I would suggest skipping the seeding from /dev/hwrng by default
if /var/lib/random-seed is available. I=E2=80=99m assuming here that my
problem is not too rare =E2=80=94 if it is, an option to disable the
seeding from /dev/hwrng seems like a good idea.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">On my VPS, =
booting takes forever (long enough that for a long<div class=3D"">time I =
thought the install had failed). I just rebooted again,</div><div =
class=3D"">and it took over 7 minutes, see attached =
screenshot.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
would suggest skipping the seeding from /dev/hwrng by default</div><div =
class=3D"">if /var/lib/random-seed is available. I=E2=80=99m assuming =
here that my</div><div class=3D"">problem is not too rare =E2=80=94 if =
it is, an option to disable the</div><div class=3D"">seeding from =
/dev/hwrng seems like a good idea.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><img apple-inline=3D"yes" =
id=3D"B09A63CC-8079-4F8E-815C-FCE15C71CD45" width=3D"644" height=3D"77" =
src=3D"cid:AE8A3912-4B41-4A78-B508-7DE47EC53E1B@HIDDEN" =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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--Apple-Mail=_296CF315-3D78-4713-BD0E-4BAF49D6E29A--

--Apple-Mail=_6A8C6D4F-1EAA-4348-9D2A-9910C75A151E--




Acknowledgement sent to Robert Vollmert <rob@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#36380; Package guix. Full text available.
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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.