GNU bug report logs - #36515
25.1; Tramp doesn't allow pasting passwords

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Package: emacs; Reported by: "Connor, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN>; Keywords: unreproducible moreinfo; Done: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
bug closed, send any further explanations to 36515 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and "Connor, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN> Request was from Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Added tag(s) unreproducible. Request was from Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 36515 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: "Connor\, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36515: 25.1; Tramp doesn't allow pasting passwords
References: <SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50@HIDDEN>
 <8736jikz4u.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:59:28 +0200
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Adam,

>> Tramp does not seem to allow pasting in the password (ctrl-y),
>> which plays hell with those of us who have so many passwords
>> that we generate them randomly and use a password manager.
>> The "work-around" is to paste the password somewere, and try
>> to type it in manually. This obviously works less and less
>> well as the passwords get longer.
>
> I cannot reproduce it locally. I have no Emacs 25.1, so I've tested with
> Emacs 24.5 and Emacs 25.2.
>
> Test:
>
> - emacs -Q /ssh:xxx@:
>   ;; In order to get a password prompt for non-existing user xxx
>
> - ;; Copy the the password string into the kill ring
>
> - C-y
>   ;; In the mini-buffer. You see as much dots as the length of the yanked password

No further information for weeks, so I close the bug. Feel free to
reopen, if you want to dig deeper with me into the issue.

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36515; Package emacs. Full text available.
Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 36515 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: "Connor\, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36515: 25.1; Tramp doesn't allow pasting passwords
References: <SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2019 10:49:37 +0200
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50@HIDDEN>
 (Adam J. Connor's message of "Fri, 5 Jul 2019 17:37:48 +0000")
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"Connor, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Adam,

> Tramp does not seem to allow pasting in the password (ctrl-y),
> which plays hell with those of us who have so many passwords
> that we generate them randomly and use a password manager.
> The "work-around" is to paste the password somewere, and try
> to type it in manually. This obviously works less and less
> well as the passwords get longer.

I cannot reproduce it locally. I have no Emacs 25.1, so I've tested with
Emacs 24.5 and Emacs 25.2.

Test:

- emacs -Q /ssh:xxx@:
  ;; In order to get a password prompt for non-existing user xxx

- ;; Copy the the password string into the kill ring

- C-y
  ;; In the mini-buffer. You see as much dots as the length of the yanked =
password

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36515; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: "Connor, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: 25.1; Tramp doesn't allow pasting passwords
Thread-Topic: 25.1; Tramp doesn't allow pasting passwords
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--_000_SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50SN6PR06MB4781namp_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tramp does not seem to allow pasting in the password (ctrl-y),
which plays hell with those of us who have so many passwords
that we generate them randomly and use a password manager.
The "work-around" is to paste the password somewere, and try
to type it in manually. This obviously works less and less
well as the passwords get longer.



In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.11)
 of 2017-09-15, modified by Debian built on trouble
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11902000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (stretch)

Configured using:
 'configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr
 --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib
 --localstatedir=3D/var/lib --infodir=3D/usr/share/info
 --mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes
 --enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25=
.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-li=
sp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp
 --with-sound=3Dalsa --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr
 --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib
 --localstatedir=3D/var/lib --infodir=3D/usr/share/info
 --mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes
 --enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/25=
.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-li=
sp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp
 --with-sound=3Dalsa --with-x=3Dyes --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3
 --with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=3D-g -O2
 -fdebug-prefix-map=3D/build/emacs25-wN2qS3/emacs25-25.1+1=3D. -fstack-prot=
ector-strong
 -Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security -Wall' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-Wdate-time
 -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2' LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS
NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8

Major mode: YAML

Minor modes in effect:
  my-keys-minor-mode: t
  tabbar-mwheel-mode: t
  tabbar-mode: t
  global-nlinum-mode: t
  nlinum-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  global-undo-tree-mode: t
  undo-tree-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  desktop-save-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Tramp: Found remote shell prompt on =91erpint-dmz-q01=92
Tramp: Opening connection for erpint-dmz-q01 using ssh...done
Tramp: Inserting =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/app009/project_co=
nfig.yaml=92...
Tramp: Encoding remote file =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/app009=
/project_config.yaml=92 with =91base64 <%s=92...done
Tramp: Decoding local file =91/tmp/tramp.47178ldp.yaml=92 with =91base64-de=
code-region=92...done
Tramp: Inserting =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/app009/project_co=
nfig.yaml=92...done
Note: file is write protected

Tramp: Checking =91vc-registered=92 for /ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/ap=
ps/app009/project_config.yaml...done
Note: file is write protected

Load-path shadows:
~/.emacs.d/lib/tabbar-master/revive hides /home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/revive
/home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/dash hides /home/adamc/.emacs.d/elpa/dash-2.13.0/d=
ash
/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp/debian-startup hides /usr/share/emacs/site-=
lisp/debian-startup
/home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/indent hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/indent
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/textmodes/r=
st

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail vc-git yaml-mode tramp-cache
conf-mode compile-utils venv-utils virtualenvwrapper-utils flymake-utils
tabbar revbufs fill-column-indicator nlinum linum virtualenvwrapper dash
vc-svn psvn derived log-edit message rfc822 mml mml-sec epg mm-decode
mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util add-log diff-mode
pp elp ediff-merg ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult ediff-help ediff-init
ediff-util dired rdp-utils web-mode disp-table process-utils flymake
python tramp-sh json map compile cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus
cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs sgml-mode undo-tree
tramp tramp-compat auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core gnus-util mm-util
help-fns mail-prsvr password-cache tramp-loaddefs trampver ucs-normalize
shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring format-spec advice pype-utils
env-utils ido edmacro kmacro ibuffer recentf tree-widget wid-edit
desktop frameset ajc-packages file-utils proj-utils s
exec-path-from-shell misterioso-theme util winbuf macro-utils
use-package cl-macs cl bind-key easy-mmode finder-inf info package
epg-config seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode
easymenu cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib time-date mule-util tooltip
eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win
term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page
menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock
syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms
cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help
simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces
cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format
env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote
dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 435968 43469)
 (symbols 48 36830 0)
 (miscs 40 682 299)
 (strings 32 82084 10327)
 (string-bytes 1 2455578)
 (vectors 16 52903)
 (vector-slots 8 970990 12666)
 (floats 8 806 433)
 (intervals 56 1162 1000)
 (buffers 976 23))



--_000_SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50SN6PR06MB4781namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margi=
n-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"></p>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Tramp does not seem to allow pasting =
in the password (ctrl-y),</span><br>
</div>
<div>which plays hell with those of us who have so many passwords</div>
<div>that we generate them randomly and use a password manager.</div>
<div>The &quot;work-around&quot; is to paste the password somewere, and try=
</div>
<div>to type it in manually. This obviously works less and less</div>
<div>well as the passwords get longer.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK&#43; Version 3.22.11)</d=
iv>
<div>&nbsp;of 2017-09-15, modified by Debian built on trouble</div>
<div>Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.1190=
2000</div>
<div>System Description:<span style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span>Debian GNU/=
Linux 9.9 (stretch)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Configured using:</div>
<div>&nbsp;'configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr</div>
<div>&nbsp;--sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib</div>
<div>&nbsp;--localstatedir=3D/var/lib --infodir=3D/usr/share/info</div>
<div>&nbsp;--mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes</div>
<div>&nbsp;--enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/shar=
e/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25=
.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp</div>
<div>&nbsp;--with-sound=3Dalsa --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr</di=
v>
<div>&nbsp;--sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib</div>
<div>&nbsp;--localstatedir=3D/var/lib --infodir=3D/usr/share/info</div>
<div>&nbsp;--mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes</div>
<div>&nbsp;--enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs25:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/shar=
e/emacs/25.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/25=
.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp</div>
<div>&nbsp;--with-sound=3Dalsa --with-x=3Dyes --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3</div>
<div>&nbsp;--with-toolkit-scroll-bars 'CFLAGS=3D-g -O2</div>
<div>&nbsp;-fdebug-prefix-map=3D/build/emacs25-wN2qS3/emacs25-25.1&#43;1=3D=
. -fstack-protector-strong</div>
<div>&nbsp;-Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security -Wall' 'CPPFLAGS=3D-Wdate-tim=
e</div>
<div>&nbsp;-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2' LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro'</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Configured features:</div>
<div>XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK SOUND GPM DBUS GCONF GSETTINGS<=
/div>
<div>NOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE M17N_FLT LIBOTF XFT ZLIB=
</div>
<div>TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Important settings:</div>
<div>&nbsp; value of $LANG: en_US.utf8</div>
<div>&nbsp; locale-coding-system: utf-8</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Major mode: YAML</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Minor modes in effect:</div>
<div>&nbsp; my-keys-minor-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; tabbar-mwheel-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; tabbar-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; global-nlinum-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; nlinum-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; diff-auto-refine-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; global-undo-tree-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; undo-tree-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; shell-dirtrack-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; recentf-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; desktop-save-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; override-global-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; tooltip-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; global-eldoc-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; electric-indent-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; mouse-wheel-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; menu-bar-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; file-name-shadow-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; global-font-lock-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; font-lock-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; blink-cursor-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; auto-composition-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; auto-encryption-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; auto-compression-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; buffer-read-only: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; line-number-mode: t</div>
<div>&nbsp; transient-mark-mode: t</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Recent messages:</div>
<div>Tramp: Found remote shell prompt on =91erpint-dmz-q01=92</div>
<div>Tramp: Opening connection for erpint-dmz-q01 using ssh...done</div>
<div>Tramp: Inserting =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/app009/proje=
ct_config.yaml=92...</div>
<div>Tramp: Encoding remote file =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/a=
pp009/project_config.yaml=92 with =91base64 &lt;%s=92...done</div>
<div>Tramp: Decoding local file =91/tmp/tramp.47178ldp.yaml=92 with =91base=
64-decode-region=92...done</div>
<div>Tramp: Inserting =91/ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commons/apps/app009/proje=
ct_config.yaml=92...done</div>
<div>Note: file is write protected</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tramp: Checking =91vc-registered=92 for /ssh:erpint-dmz-q01:/mnt/commo=
ns/apps/app009/project_config.yaml...done</div>
<div>Note: file is write protected</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Load-path shadows:</div>
<div>~/.emacs.d/lib/tabbar-master/revive hides /home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/rev=
ive</div>
<div>/home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/dash hides /home/adamc/.emacs.d/elpa/dash-2.1=
3.0/dash</div>
<div>/usr/share/emacs/25.1/site-lisp/debian-startup hides /usr/share/emacs/=
site-lisp/debian-startup</div>
<div>/home/adamc/.emacs.d/lib/indent hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/inden=
t</div>
<div>/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/textmo=
des/rst</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Features:</div>
<div>(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail vc-git yaml-mode tramp-cache<=
/div>
<div>conf-mode compile-utils venv-utils virtualenvwrapper-utils flymake-uti=
ls</div>
<div>tabbar revbufs fill-column-indicator nlinum linum virtualenvwrapper da=
sh</div>
<div>vc-svn psvn derived log-edit message rfc822 mml mml-sec epg mm-decode<=
/div>
<div>mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums</div=
>
<div>mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util add-log diff-mode=
</div>
<div>pp elp ediff-merg ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult ediff-help ediff-in=
it</div>
<div>ediff-util dired rdp-utils web-mode disp-table process-utils flymake</=
div>
<div>python tramp-sh json map compile cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus</d=
iv>
<div>cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs sgml-mode undo-tr=
ee</div>
<div>tramp tramp-compat auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core gnus-util mm-ut=
il</div>
<div>help-fns mail-prsvr password-cache tramp-loaddefs trampver ucs-normali=
ze</div>
<div>shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring format-spec advice pype-utils</=
div>
<div>env-utils ido edmacro kmacro ibuffer recentf tree-widget wid-edit</div=
>
<div>desktop frameset ajc-packages file-utils proj-utils s</div>
<div>exec-path-from-shell misterioso-theme util winbuf macro-utils</div>
<div>use-package cl-macs cl bind-key easy-mmode finder-inf info package</di=
v>
<div>epg-config seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode</d=
iv>
<div>easymenu cconv cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib time-date mule-util tooltip</d=
iv>
<div>eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-w=
in</div>
<div>term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe</di=
v>
<div>tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page=
</div>
<div>menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock<=
/div>
<div>syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang</d=
iv>
<div>misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-m=
s</div>
<div>cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian</d=
iv>
<div>cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help</di=
v>
<div>simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces</d=
iv>
<div>cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format=
</div>
<div>env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote</=
div>
<div>dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setti=
ng</div>
<div>move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Memory information:</div>
<div>((conses 16 435968 43469)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(symbols 48 36830 0)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(miscs 40 682 299)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(strings 32 82084 10327)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(string-bytes 1 2455578)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(vectors 16 52903)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(vector-slots 8 970990 12666)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(floats 8 806 433)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(intervals 56 1162 1000)</div>
<div>&nbsp;(buffers 976 23))</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_SN6PR06MB4781F44B7300795827E1F0AAA2F50SN6PR06MB4781namp_--




Acknowledgement sent to "Connor, Adam J" <adam.connor@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36515; Package emacs. Full text available.
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Last modified: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 14:15:02 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.