GNU bug report logs - #36837
26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local fill-column

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Package: emacs; Reported by: tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>; dated Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:40:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
In-Reply-To: <857e7v4bb2.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 <87k1bvfwda.fsf@HIDDEN> <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87ftmjfvpw.fsf@HIDDEN> <857e7v4bb2.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:45:36 +0200
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Cc: tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>, 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 15:28:01 -0400
Noam Postavsky wrote:

> It sounds like you are confusing defcustom settings with file-local
> variable settings.  Those are two very different things.  At any rate,
> there is no "library being loaded" here.
>
> See also (info "(emacs) File Variables")

I'm not sure what you mean.

For me there are two issues here: the particular case described in this
bug report, and the (related) general issue of ordering modes and
file-local variable settings inside `run-mode-hooks'.

You seem to be responding to the latter part of what I wrote. Whether a
library will need to be loaded or not depends on whether the feature
required by a particular hook or variable value (e.g. in case of "eval"
file-local variables) is already provided or not.

In this particular case, if you follow OP's recipe (emacs -Q),
`whitespace-mode' is autoloaded, so the whitespace library will be
loaded only at the point the hook is run.

Really, isn't this how we all customize all kinds of variables? In your
init file you have (setq some-var some-value) (or the equivalent
customize forms if you're into that) even before the relevant feature is
provided (by loading the library), and the defvar form in the pertinent
library will of course not clobber the user-specified value. Unless I'm
missing something, it works the same way if you `hack-local-variables'
before loading the whitespace.el library in this particular case.

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

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 =?utf-8?B?w6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= on Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:10:34 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 <87k1bvfwda.fsf@HIDDEN> <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87ftmjfvpw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83a7crfvbm.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN>
> Cc: schwab@HIDDEN, tastytea@HIDDEN, 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:10:34 +0200
> 
> >> I.e., instead of restating the obvious (mode hooks are more general
> >> and should be overridden by file-local variables; no disagreement
> >> there), could you provide some concrete counter-arguments to my
> >> arguments?
> >
> > We just did, both of us.
> 
> OK. I don't see it that way or just don't get it, I'm sorry.

Once again: file-local variables is a way for a file to override
_every_ other possible setting.  That includes any user customizations
and everything else, because all of the other means to give variables
non-default values are not specific to one file, they always affect
more than one.

If that doesn't address your arguments, please consider elaborating
those arguments.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2;
 whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local
 fill-column
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 <87k1bvfwda.fsf@HIDDEN> <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87ftmjfvpw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 15:28:01 -0400
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=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec <stepnem@HIDDEN> writes:

> On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:04:35 +0200
> Andreas Schwab wrote:
>
>> On Aug 02 2019, =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wro=
te:
>>
>>> Yes, unfortunately, file-local variables are only setup (via
>>> `hack-local-variables') _after_ the mode hooks are run
>>
>> I'd guess the reason is that file local variables should override mode
>> stettings.
>
> Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?
> Typically those settings are in defvars/defcustoms and thus if set
> before loading the library the user value is respected.

It sounds like you are confusing defcustom settings with file-local
variable settings.  Those are two very different things.  At any rate,
there is no "library being loaded" here.

See also (info "(emacs) File Variables")




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
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On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:51:51 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Maybe I'm being thick, but have you (and Andreas) actually read what
>> I wrote?
>
> Do you realize how rude this kind of question sounds?

If I did I definitely wouldn't have posed it that way and I'm sorry if
that upset you. I simply stated what I (still) mean: it seems to me that
your and Andreas's response did not address what I wrote, and I can only
think of two possible explanations: either you actually really did and
somehow I don't realize it (i.e., I'm stupid, thick or however one might
call it, or simply misunderstanding), or you must be misunderstanding
what I wrote.

>> I.e., instead of restating the obvious (mode hooks are more general
>> and should be overridden by file-local variables; no disagreement
>> there), could you provide some concrete counter-arguments to my
>> arguments?
>
> We just did, both of us.

OK. I don't see it that way or just don't get it, I'm sorry. No need to
assume ill will or offense, I have no idea why I should want to waste
our time that (or any other) way.

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
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> From: Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN>
> Cc: schwab@HIDDEN, tastytea@HIDDEN, 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:30:41 +0200
> 
> Maybe I'm being thick, but have you (and Andreas) actually read what
> I wrote?

Do you realize how rude this kind of question sounds?

> I.e., instead of restating the obvious (mode hooks are more general
> and should be overridden by file-local variables; no disagreement
> there), could you provide some concrete counter-arguments to my
> arguments?

We just did, both of us.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2;
 whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local
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References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
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On Aug 02 2019, Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Right. As illustrated by this bug report. :-D

No.  It has nothing to do with file-local variables.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
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On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 18:20:13 +0300
Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?
>
> No.  The logic here is that a mode hook is more general than
> file-local variables (because a mode hook affects _all_ files that are
> visited with that mode).

Precisely. Maybe I'm being thick, but have you (and Andreas) actually
read what I wrote? I.e., instead of restating the obvious (mode hooks
are more general and should be overridden by file-local variables; no
disagreement there), could you provide some concrete counter-arguments
to my arguments?

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
In-Reply-To: <87zhkrtx8k.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 <87k1bvfwda.fsf@HIDDEN> <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:15:07 +0200
Andreas Schwab wrote:

>> Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?
>
> No.  File local variables should have the last say.

Right. As illustrated by this bug report. :-D

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




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Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2;
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References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
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> From: Štěpán Němec
>  <stepnem@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:11:39 +0200
> Cc: tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>, 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:04:35 +0200
> Andreas Schwab wrote:
> 
> > I'd guess the reason is that file local variables should override mode
> > settings.
> 
> Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?

No.  The logic here is that a mode hook is more general than
file-local variables (because a mode hook affects _all_ files that are
visited with that mode).




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2;
 whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local
 fill-column
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 <87k1bvfwda.fsf@HIDDEN> <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87ftmjfvpw.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:15:07 +0200
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On Aug 02 2019, Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:04:35 +0200
> Andreas Schwab wrote:
>
>> On Aug 02 2019, Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, unfortunately, file-local variables are only setup (via
>>> `hack-local-variables') _after_ the mode hooks are run (cf.
>>> `run-mode-hooks'), so `whitespace-color-on' still sees the original
>>> `fill-column' the first time.
>>>
>>> Intuitively this order seems backwards to me, but I assume there must be
>>> a (good?) reason? I'd like to hear it, in any case.
>>
>> I'd guess the reason is that file local variables should override mode
>> stettings.
>
> Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?

No.  File local variables should have the last say.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."




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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
In-Reply-To: <874l2zvcak.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:04:35 +0200
Andreas Schwab wrote:

> On Aug 02 2019, =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wrot=
e:
>
>> Yes, unfortunately, file-local variables are only setup (via
>> `hack-local-variables') _after_ the mode hooks are run (cf.
>> `run-mode-hooks'), so `whitespace-color-on' still sees the original
>> `fill-column' the first time.
>>
>> Intuitively this order seems backwards to me, but I assume there must be
>> a (good?) reason? I'd like to hear it, in any case.
>
> I'd guess the reason is that file local variables should override mode
> stettings.

Sure, but isn't that precisely an argument for the reverse order?
Typically those settings are in defvars/defcustoms and thus if set
before loading the library the user value is respected. And on the other
hand those variables are often used for setup (during loading) which is
not automatically redone when modifying the value after the library is
loaded (such as is the very case of this report), unless using some of
the customize machinery, typically interactively.

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




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Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2;
 whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local
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References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:04:35 +0200
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 =?utf-8?B?ZWMiJ3M=?= message of "Fri, 02 Aug 2019 16:57:37 +0200")
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On Aug 02 2019, Štěpán Němec <stepnem@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Yes, unfortunately, file-local variables are only setup (via
> `hack-local-variables') _after_ the mode hooks are run (cf.
> `run-mode-hooks'), so `whitespace-color-on' still sees the original
> `fill-column' the first time.
>
> Intuitively this order seems backwards to me, but I assume there must be
> a (good?) reason? I'd like to hear it, in any case.

I'd guess the reason is that file local variables should override mode
stettings.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 36837 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= <stepnem@HIDDEN>
To: tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#36837: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not
 set to local fill-column
In-Reply-To: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
 (tastytea@HIDDEN's message of "Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:17:56 +0200")
References: <20190729111756.0665feb6@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 16:57:37 +0200
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On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:17:56 +0200
tastytea@HIDDEN wrote:

> whitespace-mode will highlight long lines starting at 70 characters
> instead of what fill-column is set to, if whitespace-line-column is set
> to nil.
>
> To reproduce:
>
> 1. Create the file test.cfg with this as the first line:
>
> # -*- fill-column: 200 -*-
>
> 2. Run emacs -Q
>
> 3. Execute the following commands:
>
> (setq whitespace-line-column nil)
> (add-hook 'conf-mode-hook
>           (lambda () (whitespace-mode)))
>
> 4. Open test.cfg and type more than 70 characters
>
> After disabling whitespace-mode and enabling it again,
> whitespace-line-column is set correctly to 200.

Yes, unfortunately, file-local variables are only setup (via
`hack-local-variables') _after_ the mode hooks are run (cf.
`run-mode-hooks'), so `whitespace-color-on' still sees the original
`fill-column' the first time.

Intuitively this order seems backwards to me, but I assume there must be
a (good?) reason? I'd like to hear it, in any case.

You can work around this by hacking^W having `hack-local-variables' also
run in your hook function:

 (add-hook 'conf-mode-hook=20
           (lambda () (hack-local-variables) (whitespace-mode))

BTW, it's usually better (e.g. for debugging purposes,
removal/modification etc.) not to put lambdas into hooks. If you only
need a particular mode, i.e. a single function/command, the lambda is
redundant anyway:

  (add-hook 'some-hook #'some-mode)

If you need more I suggest defining a named function.

HTH,

--=20
=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:17:56 +0200
From: tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 26.2; whitespace-mode: whitespace-line-column is not set to local
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whitespace-mode will highlight long lines starting at 70 characters
instead of what fill-column is set to, if whitespace-line-column is set
to nil.

To reproduce:

1. Create the file test.cfg with this as the first line:

# -*- fill-column: 200 -*-

2. Run emacs -Q

3. Execute the following commands:

(setq whitespace-line-column nil)
(add-hook 'conf-mode-hook
          (lambda () (whitespace-mode)))

4. Open test.cfg and type more than 70 characters

After disabling whitespace-mode and enabling it again,
whitespace-line-column is set correctly to 200.

In GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.8)
 of 2019-07-02 built on ventiloplattform
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version
11.0.12004000 System Description:	Gentoo Base System release 2.6

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
test.cfg has auto save data; consider M-x recover-this-file
Making completion list...

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=3D/usr --build=3Dx86_64-pc-linux-gnu
 --host=3Dx86_64-pc-linux-gnu --mandir=3D/usr/share/man
 --infodir=3D/usr/share/info --datadir=3D/usr/share --sysconfdir=3D/etc
 --localstatedir=3D/var/lib --disable-silent-rules
 --docdir=3D/usr/share/doc/emacs-26.2
 --htmldir=3D/usr/share/doc/emacs-26.2/html --libdir=3D/usr/lib64
 --program-suffix=3D-emacs-26 --includedir=3D/usr/include/emacs-26
 --infodir=3D/usr/share/info/emacs-26 --localstatedir=3D/var
 --enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp
 --without-compress-install --without-hesiod --without-pop
 --with-file-notification=3Dinotify --enable-acl --with-dbus
 --with-modules --without-gameuser --with-gpm --without-kerberos
 --without-kerberos5 --with-lcms2 --with-xml2 --without-mailutils
 --without-selinux --with-gnutls --without-libsystemd --with-threads
 --without-wide-int --with-zlib --with-sound=3Dno --with-x --without-ns
 --without-gconf --without-gsettings --with-toolkit-scroll-bars
 --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xpm
 --with-imagemagick --with-xft --without-cairo --without-libotf
 --without-m17n-flt --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-xwidgets
 'CFLAGS=3D-march=3Dnative -O2 -pipe' CPPFLAGS=3D 'LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-O1
 -Wl,--as-needed''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG GPM DBUS GLIB NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2
FREETYPE XFT ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS
XWIDGETS LCMS2

Important settings:
  value of $LC_CTYPE: de_DE.utf8
  value of $LC_TIME: en_DK.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Conf[Space]

Minor modes in effect:
  whitespace-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cconv dired dired-loaddefs format-spec rfc822 mml
easymenu mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util
rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils disp-table whitespace conf-mode edmacro
kmacro cl-loaddefs cl-lib elec-pair time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc
electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win
x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932
hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic
chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook
help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting
font-render-setting xwidget-internal move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x
multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 100238 7390)
 (symbols 48 20661 1)
 (miscs 40 61 129)
 (strings 32 29484 1113)
 (string-bytes 1 794338)
 (vectors 16 15267)
 (vector-slots 8 515682 9350)
 (floats 8 51 66)
 (intervals 56 351 0)
 (buffers 992 14))

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Acknowledgement sent to tastytea <tastytea@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#36837; Package emacs. Full text available.
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