GNU logs - #36941, boring messages

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Subject: bug#36941: Please include option to link to maildir files
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I use:  Editor:      GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)

        Hyperbole:   7.0.3
        Sys Type:    x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
        OS Type:     gnu/linux
        Window Sys:  x
        News Reader: Gnus v5.13

I hope you know what are maildir messages. Each message is for itself
within a maildir folder. I know that Emacs can display such messages.

'link-to-mail'
     Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional MAIL-FILE.
     See the documentation for the variable 'hmail:init-function' for
     information on how to specify the mail reader to use.

MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost
same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could
be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could
be replied, forwarded, etc.

Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the
MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by
asking the user.

Jean

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#36941: Acknowledgement (Please include option to link to
 maildir files)
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Subject: bug#36941: Please include option to link to maildir files
Resent-From: Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN>
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From: Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:30:39 -0400
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See the hmail.el file which offers a straightforward abstract interface for
connecting mail reader and sender formats.  Make your own maildir:
functions that that are then mapped to the hmail abstract interface via the
rmail:init function in that same file and then Hyperbole should take care
of the rest including letting you link to your messages.

We can provide pointers if you work on this.  It is a medium-difficulty
project.

Bob

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 9:22 PM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:

> I use:  Editor:      GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X
> toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
>
>         Hyperbole:   7.0.3
>         Sys Type:    x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
>         OS Type:     gnu/linux
>         Window Sys:  x
>         News Reader: Gnus v5.13
>
> I hope you know what are maildir messages. Each message is for itself
> within a maildir folder. I know that Emacs can display such messages.
>
> 'link-to-mail'
>      Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional MAIL-FILE.
>      See the documentation for the variable 'hmail:init-function' for
>      information on how to specify the mail reader to use.
>
> MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost
> same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could
> be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could
> be replied, forwarded, etc.
>
> Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the
> MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by
> asking the user.
>
> Jean
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bug-hyperbole mailing list
> Bug-hyperbole@HIDDEN
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hyperbole
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e,monospace">See the hmail.el file which offers a straightforward abstract =
interface for connecting mail reader and sender formats.=C2=A0 Make your ow=
n maildir: functions that that are then mapped to the hmail abstract interf=
ace via the rmail:init function in that same file and then Hyperbole should=
 take care of the rest including letting you link to your messages.</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">=
We can provide pointers if you work on this.=C2=A0 It is a medium-difficult=
y project.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace=
,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mon=
ospace,monospace">Bob</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:monospace,monospace"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 9:22 PM Jean Louis =
&lt;bugs@HIDDEN&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">I use:=C2=A0 Editor:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GNU Emacs 27.0.50 =
(build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hyperbole:=C2=A0 =C2=A07.0.3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sys Type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OS Type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0gnu/linux<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Window Sys:=C2=A0 x<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 News Reader: Gnus v5.13<br>
<br>
I hope you know what are maildir messages. Each message is for itself<br>
within a maildir folder. I know that Emacs can display such messages.<br>
<br>
&#39;link-to-mail&#39;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional =
MAIL-FILE.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0See the documentation for the variable &#39;hmail:init-=
function&#39; for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0information on how to specify the mail reader to use.<b=
r>
<br>
MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost<br>
same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could<br>
be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could<br>
be replied, forwarded, etc.<br>
<br>
Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the<br>
MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by<br>
asking the user.<br>
<br>
Jean<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bug-hyperbole mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bug-hyperbole@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">Bug-hyperbole@gn=
u.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hyperbole" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hyper=
bole</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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* Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-06 06:31]:
  :PROPERTIES:
  :CREATED:  [2019-08-06 Di 10:29]
  :ID:       c8efee11-dd5b-4c68-83eb-00d3db9ad7ba
  :END:
> See the hmail.el file which offers a straightforward abstract interface for
> connecting mail reader and sender formats.  Make your own maildir:
> functions that that are then mapped to the hmail abstract interface via the
> rmail:init function in that same file and then Hyperbole should take care
> of the rest including letting you link to your messages.
> 
> We can provide pointers if you work on this.  It is a medium-difficulty
> project.

That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As
that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is added.

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On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:

>
> That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As
> that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is
> added.
>

Can you show a very simple example of what you want with a detailed
explanation?  I did not follow your prior org mode examples in detail.  I
don't understand that last sentence other than that Org lets you specify
the type of link as part of the link text whereas Hyperbole doesn't embed
the types in the buffer text itself.  Just produce a very simple use case
and explain it step by step and then I will be able to tell what if
anything is missing from Hyperbole now that you need to build what you want.

Bob

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis &lt;bugs@HIDDEN&gt=
; wrote:</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As<br>
that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is add=
ed. <br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:monospace,monospace">Can you show a very simple example of what =
you want with a detailed explanation?=C2=A0 I did not follow your prior org=
 mode examples in detail.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t understand that last sentence o=
ther than that Org lets you specify the type of link as part of the link te=
xt whereas Hyperbole doesn&#39;t embed the types in the buffer text itself.=
=C2=A0 Just produce a very simple use case and explain it step by step and =
then I will be able to tell what if anything is missing from Hyperbole now =
that you need to build what you want.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Bob</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div></div></div>

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* Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-07 04:33]:
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
> >
> > That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As
> > that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is
> > added.
> >
> 
> Can you show a very simple example of what you want with a detailed
> explanation?  I did not follow your prior org mode examples in detail.  I
> don't understand that last sentence other than that Org lets you specify
> the type of link as part of the link text whereas Hyperbole doesn't embed
> the types in the buffer text itself.  Just produce a very simple use case
> and explain it step by step and then I will be able to tell what if
> anything is missing from Hyperbole now that you need to build what you want.

Request is for simple customization option so that new links and
button types can easily be customized and created.

Do this:

1. M-x customize-group RET org-link RET

2. Find "Org Link Abbrev List"

3. That is what Hyperbole needs, customization of links. Or maybe it
   could simply re-use Org functionality.

For example I could add a new link with protocol "SMS" and Value Menu
Format: SMS:%s

Or maybe new protocl "gpatent" meaning Google Patent with value
"https://www.google.com/patents/US%s"

Then if I make this link in Org:

[[gpatent:481550][Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana]]

It will be shown as "Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana"
and if I click on this link, I can see the Google Patent online.

However, web search is not as important: More important is elisp
functions. Than I would not need to work with Hyperbole intervals.

But functions are not well implemented in Org. They allow only
function without parameter.

What we need is link that allows parameters, which can be customized
to run on such parameter.

Synonym is <[Media]>: "~/Media"

However, that implementation does not look well.

As Hyperbola us using special file outside of the text to define
links, I see no reason why such links, even parameters could not be
defined in that separate file.

Even simple words could be defined in that separate file to be links
for something. Isn't it?

I could define word GNU in the directory, to be the link in the file
about-gnu.txt to https://www.gnu.org

Then for example, I could define word "notes" to be link to the action
"notes" with parameter ID: 123.

Jean

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> On Aug 7, 2019, at 3:20 AM, Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:
>=20
> * Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-07 04:33]:
>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As that w=
ould easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is added.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Can you show a very simple example of what you want with a detailed expla=
nation?  I did not follow your prior org mode examples in detail.  I don't u=
nderstand that last sentence other than that Org lets you specify the type o=
f link as part of the link text whereas Hyperbole doesn't embed the types in=
 the buffer text itself.  Just produce a very simple use case
>> and explain it step by step and then I will be able to tell what if
>> anything is missing from Hyperbole now that you need to build what you wa=
nt.
>=20
> Request is for simple customization option so that new links and button ty=
pes can easily be customized and created.
>=20
> Do this:
>=20
> 1. M-x customize-group RET org-link RET
>=20
> 2. Find "Org Link Abbrev List"
>=20
> 3. That is what Hyperbole needs, customization of links. Or maybe it
>   could simply re-use Org functionality.

As of the 7.0.3a test release, any Org links should work via the Action Key b=
ut only in Org mode.  For this kind of behavior anywhere, you would define a=
n implicit button type that recognized a double quoted link type name follow=
ed by some number of parameters and then its action type would dispatch to f=
unctions from a list of type names, just as Org mode does now.  I will show y=
ou a sample implementation when I get a chance but my point is that no new f=
eatures are needed in Hyperbole to implement this, except that the type and p=
arameters will be displayed in the buffer unless you create the buttons as e=
xplicit ones.

>=20
> For example I could add a new link with protocol "SMS" and Value Menu
> Format: SMS:%s
>=20
> Or maybe new protocl "gpatent" meaning Google Patent with value
> "https://www.google.com/patents/US%s"
>=20
> Then if I make this link in Org:
>=20
> [[gpatent:481550][Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana]]
>=20
> It will be shown as "Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana"
> and if I click on this link, I can see the Google Patent online.
>=20
> However, web search is not as important: More important is elisp
> functions. Than I would not need to work with Hyperbole intervals.
>=20
> But functions are not well implemented in Org. They allow only
> function without parameter.
>=20
> What we need is link that allows parameters, which can be customized
> to run on such parameter.
>=20
> Synonym is <[Media]>: "~/Media"
>=20
> However, that implementation does not look well.

We are still open to other syntaxes but the label must itself be delimited.
>=20
> As Hyperbola is using special file outside of the text to define
> links, I see no reason why such links, even parameters could not be define=
d in that separate file.

They are with explicit buttons which each have an action type that can take a=
n arbitrary number of parameters and prompt for each one.

>=20
> Even simple words could be defined in that separate file to be links for s=
omething. Isn't it?

That would be implicit button types.

>=20
> I could define word GNU in the directory, to be the link in the file about=
-gnu.txt to https://www.gnu.org
>=20
> Then for example, I could define word "notes" to be link to the action
> "notes" with parameter ID: 123.

Basically, you want to be able to define implicit link types as you would in=
 a database table, as a list of typed fields and then instantiate these type=
s within buffers just as you now do.  The missing part is being able to crea=
te, edit and look up the types from a table rather than as a list of types t=
hat we have now that covers not just link types but all button types.

Bob

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--000000000000e77959059067e93f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 9:22 PM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:

> I use:  Editor:      GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X
> toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
>
>         Hyperbole:   7.0.3
>         Sys Type:    x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
>         OS Type:     gnu/linux
>         Window Sys:  x
>         News Reader: Gnus v5.13
>
> I hope you know what are maildir messages. Each message is for itself
> within a maildir folder. I know that Emacs can display such messages.
>
> 'link-to-mail'
>      Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional MAIL-FILE.
>      See the documentation for the variable 'hmail:init-function' for
>      information on how to specify the mail reader to use.
>
> MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost
> same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could
> be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could
> be replied, forwarded, etc.
>
> Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the
> MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by
> asking the user.
>

I am still unclear on precisely what you would want.

Do you want a Hyperbole action type that links to maildir messages where
you would specify the full path to the maildir message file and Hyperbole
would display the message in the mail reader that you assigned to
hmail:reader variable?  Then you could use that in explicit button and
implicit button type definitions.

Do you want an implicit button type that recognizes maildir message ids in
buffers?

Something else?

Bob

--000000000000e77959059067e93f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">On Mon, Aug 5, 2019 at 9:22 PM Jean Louis &lt;bugs@HIDDEN&gt=
; wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I use:=C2=A0 Editor:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 G=
NU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bar=
s)<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hyperbole:=C2=A0 =C2=A07.0.3<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sys Type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OS Type:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0gnu/linux<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Window Sys:=C2=A0 x<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 News Reader: Gnus v5.13<br>
<br>
I hope you know what are maildir messages. Each message is for itself<br>
within a maildir folder. I know that Emacs can display such messages.<br>
<br>
&#39;link-to-mail&#39;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional =
MAIL-FILE.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0See the documentation for the variable &#39;hmail:init-=
function&#39; for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0information on how to specify the mail reader to use.<b=
r>
<br>
MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost<br>
same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could<br>
be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could<br>
be replied, forwarded, etc.<br>
<br>
Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the<br>
MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by<br>
asking the user.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">I am still unclear on precisely=
 what you would want.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:monospace,monospace">Do you want a Hyperbole action type that links=
 to maildir messages where you would specify the full path to the maildir m=
essage file and Hyperbole would display the message in the mail reader that=
 you assigned to hmail:reader variable?=C2=A0 Then you could use that in ex=
plicit button and implicit button type definitions.</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Do you want an=
 implicit button type that recognizes maildir message ids in buffers?</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace=
">Something else?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mo=
nospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:monospace,monospace">Bob</div></div></div>

--000000000000e77959059067e93f--

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* Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-18 19:55]:
> > 'link-to-mail'
> >      Displays a mail message with MAIL-MSG-ID from optional MAIL-FILE.
> >      See the documentation for the variable 'hmail:init-function' for
> >      information on how to specify the mail reader to use.
> >
> > MAIL-MSG-ID is not necessary for maildir messages, as it is almost
> > same as link to file, the difference would be that some headers could
> > be hidden and message or mail mode would be turned on. Messages could
> > be replied, forwarded, etc.
> >
> > Maybe some action can be used for maildirs, just skipping the
> > MAIL-MSG-ID. But it somehow need to know if it is maildir link by
> > asking the user.
> >
> 
> I am still unclear on precisely what you would want.
> 
> Do you want a Hyperbole action type that links to maildir messages where
> you would specify the full path to the maildir message file and Hyperbole
> would display the message in the mail reader that you assigned to
> hmail:reader variable?  Then you could use that in explicit button and
> implicit button type definitions.
> 
> Do you want an implicit button type that recognizes maildir message ids in
> buffers?
> 
> Something else?

Thank you Bob.

You have created `link-to-mail`. But that probably means to link to
mail message in mbox file. I cannot be so sure, as I do not use mbox
format.

Maildir format is well known, it is already standard for many pieces
of software[1][2][3][4].

As part of the `link-to-mail` function I propose that you expand the
function that it supports to link to mail file which is part of
maildir format. That is explicit button extension to your function
which does not support maildirs.

Example maildir directory is shown here:

  /home/data1/protected/Maildir/rsw@HIDDEN:
  insgesamt 12K
  drwx------ 2 4,0K 12. Aug 13:04 cur
  drwx------ 2 4,0K 23. Nov 2017  new
  drwx------ 2 4,0K 12. Aug 13:04 tmp

Example messages in `cur` are shown here:

  /home/data1/protected/Maildir/rsw@HIDDEN/cur:
  insgesamt 16K
  -rw------- 1 6,0K 23. Nov 2017  1511412843.18643_5.protected:2,S
  -rw------- 1 4,6K 11. Aug 17:58 1565607852.20344_65.protected:2,S

Thus to link to certain message in Maildir format is equivalent to
linking it to the file such as it is:

/home/data1/protected/Maildir/rsw@HIDDEN/cur/1511412843.18643_5.protected:2,S

and turning on certain mode to read such message, maybe message-mode
in read-only mode, this I do not know.

I have 300,000 messages in Maildir format, and very few in mbox
format.

Jean

Footnotes:
[1]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir

[2]  https://wiki2.dovecot.org/MailboxFormat/Maildir

[3]  https://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html

[4]  http://www.courier-mta.org/maildir.html

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--000000000000bb9ca50590694238
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

I looked at some doc for maildir, so I understand the format though your
examples are very helpful.  The question is how a user would link to a
message and how you normally read such a message (what mode do you
invoke).  I would suspect you would want to link to the message when
displaying it in some window, when on the file name in a dired buffer and
potentially something like "link to most recent message from <user>".  All
of these require different bits of code.

Have you tried using Hyperbole's drag actions to create an explicit link to
a file?  Just type the label for the new button you want, select that
label, depress the Action Mouse Key somewhere in the label, drag to the
dired entry of the email message you want a link to and voila, you have an
explicit button linked to that file.  But to make it use some mode, you
would need a custom action type that invoked the mode.

Bob

--000000000000bb9ca50590694238
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace,monospace">I looked at some doc for maildir, so I unders=
tand the format though your examples are very helpful.=C2=A0 The question i=
s how a user would link to a message and how you normally read such a messa=
ge (what mode do you invoke).=C2=A0 I would suspect you would want to link =
to the message when displaying it in some window, when on the file name in =
a dired buffer and potentially something like &quot;link to most recent mes=
sage from &lt;user&gt;&quot;.=C2=A0 All of these require different bits of =
code.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,mono=
space"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e,monospace">Have you tried using Hyperbole&#39;s drag actions to create an=
 explicit link to a file?=C2=A0 Just type the label for the new button you =
want, select that label, depress the Action Mouse Key somewhere in the labe=
l, drag to the dired entry of the email message you want a link to and voil=
a, you have an explicit button linked to that file.=C2=A0 But to make it us=
e some mode, you would need a custom action type that invoked the mode.</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospa=
ce">Bob</div></div></div>

--000000000000bb9ca50590694238--

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* Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-18 21:31]:
> I looked at some doc for maildir, so I understand the format though your
> examples are very helpful.  The question is how a user would link to a
> message

If I am in the message, it has its filename, right? So I can just get
its file path. That is my idea on how to link to the message. It is
also very simple idea.

If I would change flag on the message to become new again, it would be
renamed by Maildir standard and be placed in Maildir/new directory,
and I would not mind loosing such link in that case.

> and how you normally read such a message (what mode do you invoke).

Right now within Emacs I am reading emails with `maildir` package.

It is invoking from message-mode derived mode maildir-message-mode.

I would suggest that it should be option which mode to invoke open
reading such message, with default to be message-mode, as such is
standard in Emacs.

Or you could make derived mode in Hyperbole for that, you could look
into maildir package and maybe make it nicer, as for example if I
invoke just message-mode on the message, I cannot reply, and there are
too many headers, some of them shall be hidden, as linking to message
is usually not for purpose of replying to the message, but to present
the message as a note to the salesman who must understand the
background of person and conversation in question.

> I would suspect you would want to link to the message when
> displaying it in some window, when on the file name in a dired
> buffer and potentially something like link to most recent message
> from <user>.  All of these require different bits of code.

No, not from dired. As from dired I can read it anyway.

My suggestion is related to function link-to-mail which shall be
expanded to link to certain message within maildir directory.

I would provide the path to the message, and link would appear as I
wish, for example <(Message from 10/10/2019)> could be link to the
message that points to ~/Maildir/user@HIDDEN/cur/message and is
invoking the mode by my choice, maybe maildir-message-mode or
message-mode 

> Have you tried using Hyperbole's drag actions to create an explicit link to
> a file?

That is about the same workflow.

I could use link-to-file and then I could make some tweaks in Emacs to
invoke certain maildir message reading mode when such message is
located in certain directory, right? Sure it would work this way.

My proposal is related to your function link-to-mail as if you have
never used Maildirs you may not be aware that it is widely used. So
when user finds link-to-mail, that is first to think how to link to
message but Maildir is not support. It is your decision on that. At
least it gives enough substantial reasons based on reality of
Maildirs, but not that it gives real demand.

There are not so many users of Maildirs that may require such
function, that may be so.

> Just type the label for the new button you want, select that label,
> depress the Action Mouse Key somewhere in the label, drag to the
> dired entry of the email message you want a link to and voila, you
> have an explicit button linked to that file.  But to make it use
> some mode, you would need a custom action type that invoked the
> mode.

Alright

Jean

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On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 3:53 PM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:

> * Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-18 21:31]:
> > I looked at some doc for maildir, so I understand the format though your
> > examples are very helpful.  The question is how a user would link to a
> > message
>
> My suggestion is related to function link-to-mail which shall be
> expanded to link to certain message within maildir directory.
>
> I would provide the path to the message, and link would appear as I
> wish, for example <(Message from 10/10/2019)> could be link to the
> message that points to ~/Maildir/user@HIDDEN/cur/message and is
> invoking the mode by my choice, maybe maildir-message-mode or
> message-mode
>

I understand what you want now and am thinking about adding it in.

Also, thinking through a solution for your desire to specify parameterized
buttons entirely within a buffer.

You have good ideas and are finding issues that we can improve and make
Hyperbole better.

Thanks,

Bob

--000000000000a3836a05906b83d1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 3:53 PM Jean Louis &lt;bugs@HIDDEN&g=
t; wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">* Robert Weiner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsw=
@gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">rsw@HIDDEN</a>&gt; [2019-08-18 21:31]:<br>
&gt; I looked at some doc for maildir, so I understand the format though yo=
ur<br>
&gt; examples are very helpful.=C2=A0 The question is how a user would link=
 to a<br>
&gt; message<br><br>
My suggestion is related to function link-to-mail which shall be<br>
expanded to link to certain message within maildir directory.<br>
<br>
I would provide the path to the message, and link would appear as I<br>
wish, for example &lt;(Message from 10/10/2019)&gt; could be link to the<br=
>
message that points to ~/Maildir/<a href=3D"http://user@HIDDEN/cur/mes=
sage" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">user@HIDDEN/cur/message</a>=
 and is<br>
invoking the mode by my choice, maybe maildir-message-mode or<br>
message-mode <br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">I understand what you want now and=
 am thinking about adding it in.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Also, thinking through a solution f=
or your desire to specify parameterized buttons entirely within a buffer.</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monos=
pace">You have good ideas and are finding issues that we can improve and ma=
ke Hyperbole better.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:monospace,monospace">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Bob</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"></div></div></div>

--000000000000a3836a05906b83d1--

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From: Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:11:47 -0400
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On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 3:21 AM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:

> * Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-07 04:33]:
> > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. As
> > > that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link type is
> > > added.
>
> Request is for simple customization option so that new links and
> button types can easily be customized and created.
>
> For example I could add a new link with protocol "SMS" and Value Menu
> Format: SMS:%s
>
> Or maybe new protocOl "gpatent" meaning Google Patent with value
> "https://www.google.com/patents/US%s"
>
> Then if I make this link in Org:
>
> [[gpatent:481550][Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana]]
>
> It will be shown as "Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana"
> and if I click on this link, I can see the Google Patent online.
>
> However, web search is not as important: More important is elisp
> functions. Than I would not need to work with Hyperbole intervals.
>
> But functions are not well implemented in Org. They allow only
> function without parameter.
>
> What we need is link that allows parameters, which can be customized
> to run on such parameter.
>
> Synonym is <[Media]>: "~/Media"
>
> However, that implementation does not look well.
>
> As Hyperbola us using special file outside of the text to define
> links, I see no reason why such links, even parameters could not be
> defined in that separate file.
>
> Even simple words could be defined in that separate file to be links
> for something. Isn't it?
>
> I could define word GNU in the directory, to be the link in the file
> about-gnu.txt to https://www.gnu.org
>
> Then for example, I could define word "notes" to be link to the action
> "notes" with parameter ID: 123.
>

Hi Jean:

FYI, the following behavior is implemented in my working copy of Hyperbole
but not yet released anywhere.  It will be in the next test release.  Using
what is described below together with globally labeled/named implicit
buttons, you can create in-buffer, parameterized Action Buttons that you
can invoke from anywhere by name or by pressing the Action Key on them.  I
hope this will meet the bulk of your needs and be easy to use.

------
From the DEMO file:

** Action Buttons

A new feature of Hyperbole is a universal syntax for creating implicit
buttons of any existing type, known as Action Buttons.  Such buttons are
delimited by angle brackets, < > and come in three forms:

  1. action type invocations - these begin with an action type name (from
the
     list displayed by {C-h h d t a RET}) and are followed by any needed
     arguments to form the action, e.g.

          <link-to-file-line "${hyperb:dir}/hact.el" 40>

  2. function calls - these are similar to action type invocations but begin
     with an Elisp function name rather than an action type name, e.g.

          <find-file-other-window "/tmp">

  3. variable displays - these consist of just an Elisp variable name and
     display a message with the variable name and value, e.g.

          <fill-column>

Since implicit buttons can be labeled with a name and placed in the global
button file for invocation by name, you can give short names to any such
buttons you want to invoke frequently.

An Action Button is recognized only if the first name within the angle
brackets is an existing action type or Elisp symbol.  Otherwise, other
implicit button types will be tested and may activate instead.

With Action Buttons you need not remember any special syntax for each type
of
implicit button.  You can freely embed them in any type of text and use the
Action and Assist keys on them as you do with any other type of implicit
button.

Bob

--0000000000004aa0a60590d5f737
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace,monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 3:21 AM Jean Louis &lt;bugs@HIDDEN&gt=
; wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">* Robert Weiner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rsw@=
gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">rsw@HIDDEN</a>&gt; [2019-08-07 04:33]:<br>
&gt; On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:29 AM Jean Louis &lt;bugs@HIDDEN&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; That is why I suggested making customization group for buttons. A=
s<br>
&gt; &gt; that would easy everything. One can add Elisp function and link t=
ype is<br>
&gt; &gt; added.<br>
<br>
Request is for simple customization option so that new links and<br>
button types can easily be customized and created.<br>
<br>
For example I could add a new link with protocol &quot;SMS&quot; and Value =
Menu<br>
Format: SMS:%s<br>
<br>
Or maybe new protoc<span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace,monospace">O</span>l &quot;gpatent&quot; meaning Google Patent with va=
lue<br>
&quot;<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/patents/US%s" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.google.com/patents/US%s</a>&quot;<br>
<br>
Then if I make this link in Org:<br>
<br>
[[gpatent:481550][Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana]]<br>
<br>
It will be shown as &quot;Ore washer and concentrator, by Arthur L. Dana&qu=
ot;<br>
and if I click on this link, I can see the Google Patent online.<br>
<br>
However, web search is not as important: More important is elisp<br>
functions. Than I would not need to work with Hyperbole intervals.<br>
<br>
But functions are not well implemented in Org. They allow only<br>
function without parameter.<br>
<br>
What we need is link that allows parameters, which can be customized<br>
to run on such parameter.<br>
<br>
Synonym is &lt;[Media]&gt;: &quot;~/Media&quot;<br>
<br>
However, that implementation does not look well.<br>
<br>
As Hyperbola us using special file outside of the text to define<br>
links, I see no reason why such links, even parameters could not be<br>
defined in that separate file.<br>
<br>
Even simple words could be defined in that separate file to be links<br>
for something. Isn&#39;t it?<br>
<br>
I could define word GNU in the directory, to be the link in the file<br>
about-gnu.txt to <a href=3D"https://www.gnu.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.gnu.org</a><br>
<br>
Then for example, I could define word &quot;notes&quot; to be link to the a=
ction<br>
&quot;notes&quot; with parameter ID: 123.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">H=
i Jean:</div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mo=
nospace,monospace">FYI, the following behavior is implemented in my working=
 copy of Hyperbole but not yet released anywhere.=C2=A0 It will be in the n=
ext test release.=C2=A0 Using what is described below together with globall=
y labeled/named implicit buttons, you can create in-buffer, parameterized A=
ction Buttons that you can invoke from anywhere by name or by pressing the =
Action Key on them.=C2=A0 I hope this will meet the bulk of your needs and =
be easy to use.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mono=
space,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:monospace,monospace">------</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace,monospace">From the DEMO file:</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">** Action Buttons=
<br><br>A new feature of Hyperbole is a universal syntax for creating impli=
cit<br>buttons of any existing type, known as Action Buttons.=C2=A0 Such bu=
ttons are<br>delimited by angle brackets, &lt; &gt; and come in three forms=
:<br><br>=C2=A0 1. action type invocations - these begin with an action typ=
e name (from the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0list displayed by {C-h h d t a RET}=
) and are followed by any needed<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0arguments to form t=
he action, e.g.<br><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;link-to-file-=
line &quot;${hyperb:dir}/hact.el&quot; 40&gt;<br><br>=C2=A0 2. function cal=
ls - these are similar to action type invocations but begin<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0with an Elisp function name rather than an action type name, e.g.=
<br><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;find-file-other-window &quot=
;/tmp&quot;&gt;<br><br>=C2=A0 3. variable displays - these consist of just =
an Elisp variable name and<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0display a message with th=
e variable name and value, e.g.<br><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &=
lt;fill-column&gt;<br><br>Since implicit buttons can be labeled with a name=
 and placed in the global<br>button file for invocation by name, you can gi=
ve short names to any such<br>buttons you want to invoke frequently.<br><br=
>An Action Button is recognized only if the first name within the angle<br>=
brackets is an existing action type or Elisp symbol.=C2=A0 Otherwise, other=
<br>implicit button types will be tested and may activate instead.<br><br>W=
ith Action Buttons you need not remember any special syntax for each type o=
f<br>implicit button.=C2=A0 You can freely embed them in any type of text a=
nd use the<br>Action and Assist keys on them as you do with any other type =
of implicit<br>button.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:monospace,monospace">Bob</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div></div></div>

--0000000000004aa0a60590d5f737--

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This is great Robert, thank you.

Myself I am thinking in terms of HyperScope as envisioned by Doug
Engelbart, so in the mean time I have started building a system.

My system is based on the database.

Do you think that I can bind .hypb file to certain key which is not a
file?

For example I have database table hlinks with hlinks_id and I would
like to bind .hypb maybe also as a string to the hlinks_text database
field.

Is there such function already in Hyperbole, to tell "where is the
.hypb" file? I could place it temporarily maybe in any directory and
then after usage delete it automatically.

Does that exist?

Jean

* Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-24 07:12]:
> FYI, the following behavior is implemented in my working copy of Hyperbole
> but not yet released anywhere.  It will be in the next test release.  Using
> what is described below together with globally labeled/named implicit
> buttons, you can create in-buffer, parameterized Action Buttons that you
> can invoke from anywhere by name or by pressing the Action Key on them.  I
> hope this will meet the bulk of your needs and be easy to use.
> 
> ------
> From the DEMO file:
> 
> ** Action Buttons
> 
> A new feature of Hyperbole is a universal syntax for creating implicit
> buttons of any existing type, known as Action Buttons.  Such buttons are
> delimited by angle brackets, < > and come in three forms:
> 
>   1. action type invocations - these begin with an action type name (from
> the
>      list displayed by {C-h h d t a RET}) and are followed by any needed
>      arguments to form the action, e.g.
> 
>           <link-to-file-line ${hyperb:dir}/hact.el 40>
> 
>   2. function calls - these are similar to action type invocations but begin
>      with an Elisp function name rather than an action type name, e.g.
> 
>           <find-file-other-window /tmp>
> 
>   3. variable displays - these consist of just an Elisp variable name and
>      display a message with the variable name and value, e.g.
> 
>           <fill-column>
> 
> Since implicit buttons can be labeled with a name and placed in the global
> button file for invocation by name, you can give short names to any such
> buttons you want to invoke frequently.
> 
> An Action Button is recognized only if the first name within the angle
> brackets is an existing action type or Elisp symbol.  Otherwise, other
> implicit button types will be tested and may activate instead.
> 
> With Action Buttons you need not remember any special syntax for each type
> of
> implicit button.  You can freely embed them in any type of text and use the
> Action and Assist keys on them as you do with any other type of implicit
> button.

Message sent to bug-hyperbole@HIDDEN:

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The .hypb file for a button is always in the same directory as the Button=E2=
=80=99s file, so just take its dirne and append .hypb.

-- Bob

> On Aug 25, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> wrote:
>=20
> This is great Robert, thank you.
>=20
> Myself I am thinking in terms of HyperScope as envisioned by Doug
> Engelbart, so in the mean time I have started building a system.
>=20
> My system is based on the database.
>=20
> Do you think that I can bind .hypb file to certain key which is not a
> file?
>=20
> For example I have database table hlinks with hlinks_id and I would
> like to bind .hypb maybe also as a string to the hlinks_text database
> field.
>=20
> Is there such function already in Hyperbole, to tell "where is the
> .hypb" file? I could place it temporarily maybe in any directory and
> then after usage delete it automatically.
>=20
> Does that exist?
>=20
> Jean
>=20
> * Robert Weiner <rsw@HIDDEN> [2019-08-24 07:12]:
>> FYI, the following behavior is implemented in my working copy of Hyperbol=
e
>> but not yet released anywhere.  It will be in the next test release.  Usi=
ng
>> what is described below together with globally labeled/named implicit
>> buttons, you can create in-buffer, parameterized Action Buttons that you
>> can invoke from anywhere by name or by pressing the Action Key on them.  I=

>> hope this will meet the bulk of your needs and be easy to use.
>>=20
>> ------
>> =46rom the DEMO file:
>>=20
>> ** Action Buttons
>>=20
>> A new feature of Hyperbole is a universal syntax for creating implicit
>> buttons of any existing type, known as Action Buttons.  Such buttons are
>> delimited by angle brackets, < > and come in three forms:
>>=20
>>  1. action type invocations - these begin with an action type name (from
>> the
>>     list displayed by {C-h h d t a RET}) and are followed by any needed
>>     arguments to form the action, e.g.
>>=20
>>          <link-to-file-line ${hyperb:dir}/hact.el 40>
>>=20
>>  2. function calls - these are similar to action type invocations but beg=
in
>>     with an Elisp function name rather than an action type name, e.g.
>>=20
>>          <find-file-other-window /tmp>
>>=20
>>  3. variable displays - these consist of just an Elisp variable name and
>>     display a message with the variable name and value, e.g.
>>=20
>>          <fill-column>
>>=20
>> Since implicit buttons can be labeled with a name and placed in the globa=
l
>> button file for invocation by name, you can give short names to any such
>> buttons you want to invoke frequently.
>>=20
>> An Action Button is recognized only if the first name within the angle
>> brackets is an existing action type or Elisp symbol.  Otherwise, other
>> implicit button types will be tested and may activate instead.
>>=20
>> With Action Buttons you need not remember any special syntax for each typ=
e
>> of
>> implicit button.  You can freely embed them in any type of text and use t=
he
>> Action and Assist keys on them as you do with any other type of implicit
>> button.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Bug-hyperbole mailing list
> Bug-hyperbole@HIDDEN
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-hyperbole

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* Robert Weiner <rswgnu@HIDDEN> [2019-08-26 01:23]:
> The .hypb file for a button is always in the same directory as the
> Button’s file, so just take its dirne and append .hypb.

Thanks I get it.
Jean

Last modified: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:00:02 UTC

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