GNU bug report logs - #3736
23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>; dated Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:30:04 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:49:02 +0300
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
In-reply-to: <nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN>
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To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>, 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: lennart.borgman@HIDDEN
Reply-to: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> <nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN>

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:22:38 +0200
> Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@HIDDEN, 3736@HIDDEN
> 
> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > There are nearly a hundred places in Emacs lisp sources where
> > /dev/null is used instead of null-device. Please convert those to use
> > null-device so that it gets system-independent. (I wonder what to do
> > with those in Tramp.)
> 
> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
> "/dev/null" on remote machines.

On remote machines, Tramp indeed shouldn't use a value that is correct
for the local OS.



Acknowledgement sent to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>
Cc: Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
	<nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN> <4A4CB03E.2000602@HIDDEN>
	<87tz1v2nn6.fsf@HIDDEN> <4A4CC0B7.9040907@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:10:53 +0200
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	Jul 2009 22:14:15 +0800")
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Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN> writes:

> Probably the best solution is for tramp to implement a general
> server-local-variable mechanism, as there are probably other variables
> that need different values for different servers too.  The user could
> then configure a variable (such as tramp-server-local-variable-alist)
> to define any such variables that they need to, which would then be
> let bound as appropriate in tramp functions.

Nice idea. Tramp does it already in some cases (for example for
environment variables of the remote host), but your proposal is more
general.

Noted.

Best regards, Michael.



Acknowledgement sent to Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3736@HIDDEN:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>
Cc: 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
        Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
	<nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN> <4A4CB03E.2000602@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:06:31 +0200
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	Jul 2009 21:03:58 +0800")
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Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN> writes:

>> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
>> "/dev/null" on remote machines.
>
> What if the remote machine uses "NUL", "NLA0:" or "Dev:Nul" for its
> null device? I think tramp benefits from the use of null-device
> instead of hard-coded "/dev/null" as much as any other part of Emacs.

In case Tramp uses "/dev/null", the remote machine is expected to be
unixish. For other remote machine types, "/dev/null" is not used.

I would not carve this sentence in stone, but that's the situation
today.

Best regards, Michael.



Acknowledgement sent to Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:21:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
To: Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
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On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Sven Joachim<svenjoac@HIDDEN> wrote:
> On 2009-07-02 15:03 +0200, Jason Rumney wrote:
>
>> Michael Albinus wrote:
>>
>>> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
>>> "/dev/null" on remote machines.
>>>
>>
>> What if the remote machine uses "NUL", "NLA0:" or "Dev:Nul" for its
>> null device? I think tramp benefits from the use of null-device
>> instead of hard-coded "/dev/null" as much as any other part of Emacs.
>
> Not really, you know what null-device should be for the local machine,
> but not for remote computers.

Does not the remote computer identify itself so that it is possible to
at least make a better guess?



Acknowledgement sent to Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3736@HIDDEN:


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Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>	<nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN> <4A4CB03E.2000602@HIDDEN> <87tz1v2nn6.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Sven Joachim wrote:
> Not really, you know what null-device should be for the local machine,
> but not for remote computers.
>   

Probably the best solution is for tramp to implement a general 
server-local-variable mechanism, as there are probably other variables 
that need different values for different servers too.  The user could 
then configure a variable (such as tramp-server-local-variable-alist) to 
define any such variables that they need to, which would then be let 
bound as appropriate in tramp functions.





Acknowledgement sent to Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3736@HIDDEN:


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To: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>
Cc: 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
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	<nqhbxvjmup.fsf@HIDDEN> <4A4CB03E.2000602@HIDDEN>
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On 2009-07-02 15:03 +0200, Jason Rumney wrote:

> Michael Albinus wrote:
>
>> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
>> "/dev/null" on remote machines.
>>   
>
> What if the remote machine uses "NUL", "NLA0:" or "Dev:Nul" for its
> null device? I think tramp benefits from the use of null-device
> instead of hard-coded "/dev/null" as much as any other part of Emacs.

Not really, you know what null-device should be for the local machine,
but not for remote computers.

Sven



Acknowledgement sent to Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3736@HIDDEN:


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Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
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Michael Albinus wrote:

> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
> "/dev/null" on remote machines.
>   

What if the remote machine uses "NUL", "NLA0:" or "Dev:Nul" for its null 
device? I think tramp benefits from the use of null-device instead of 
hard-coded "/dev/null" as much as any other part of Emacs.




Acknowledgement sent to Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>:
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Michael Albinus wrote:

> On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
> "/dev/null" on remote machines.
>   

What if the remote machine uses "NUL", "NLA0:" or "Dev:Nul" for its null 
device? I think tramp benefits from the use of null-device instead of 
hard-coded "/dev/null" as much as any other part of Emacs.




Acknowledgement sent to Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3736@HIDDEN:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
Cc: 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:22:38 +0200
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (Lennart
	Borgman's message of "Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:22:36 +0200")
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Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN> writes:

> There are nearly a hundred places in Emacs lisp sources where
> /dev/null is used instead of null-device. Please convert those to use
> null-device so that it gets system-independent. (I wonder what to do
> with those in Tramp.)

On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
"/dev/null" on remote machines.

Best regards, Michael.



Acknowledgement sent to Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit@HIDDEN:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
Cc: 3736 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#3736: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
References: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:22:38 +0200
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1659.1246480655.2239.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (Lennart
	Borgman's message of "Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:22:36 +0200")
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Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN> writes:

> There are nearly a hundred places in Emacs lisp sources where
> /dev/null is used instead of null-device. Please convert those to use
> null-device so that it gets system-independent. (I wonder what to do
> with those in Tramp.)

On W32 systems, null-device is "NUL". Not useful for Tramp, it needs
"/dev/null" on remote machines.

Best regards, Michael.



Acknowledgement sent to Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Information forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit@HIDDEN:


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Subject: 23.1.50; Please use null-device instead of /dev/null
From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
To: emacs-pretest-bug@HIDDEN
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There are nearly a hundred places in Emacs lisp sources where
/dev/null is used instead of null-device. Please convert those to use
null-device so that it gets system-independent. (I wonder what to do
with those in Tramp.)


In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2009-06-30



Acknowledgement sent to Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3736; Package emacs. Full text available.
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