GNU bug report logs - #37812
Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features

Previous Next

To add a comment to this bug, you must first unarchive it, by sending
a message to control AT debbugs.gnu.org, with unarchive 37812 in the body.
You can then email your comments to 37812 AT debbugs.gnu.org in the normal way.

Toggle the display of automated, internal messages from the tracker.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:50:46 -0500

The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
"We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
insertion and deletion of text.  It can control subprocesses, indent
programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."

This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
has no other important qualities.

* How old exactly, I'm not sure. It appears in the 18.59 manual from
1992 (ftp://ftp.gnu.org/old-gnu/emacs/), so I assume it goes back even
further than that. The passage underwent a minor facelift in 2006
(commit 350287ef), but besides that it has gone substantially
unchanged.

Message #8 received at 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 10:14:33 +0300

> From: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:50:46 -0500
> 
> The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
> "We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
> insertion and deletion of text.  It can control subprocesses, indent
> programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."
> 
> This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
> update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
> once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
> remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
> added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
> listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
> as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
> has no other important qualities.

EWW and Org are very high-level Lisp applications, they aren't
examples of basic features of Emacs as an editor.  So I'm not sure
they are appropriate in that introductory section.

Richard, do you have any proposals for how to modify this description?
We still want to say that Emacs is an advanced editor, I'm sure.

We could also leave that text as it is: the fact that there are other
advanced editors nowadays with similar features doesn't mean that
Emacs isn't advanced, and there are certainly simple editors in use
that don't have the features we list as "advanced".

Thanks.

Message #11 received at 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>,
 Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:47:32 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> The introduction to the Emacs manual says, right near the beginning:
>> "We call Emacs 'advanced' because it can do much more than simple
>> insertion and deletion of text.  It can control subprocesses, indent
>> programs automatically, show multiple files at once, and more."
>>
>> This text has been around for a long time*. Maybe it's time for an
>> update? Indenting programs automatically and showing multiple files at
>> once aren't very compelling features these days. My go-to example of a
>> remarkable Emacs-y feature is EWW, so maybe "browse the Web" could be
>> added? Or something to do with Org mode? I don't know exactly, but
>> listing "shows multiple files" as a feature is like describing someone
>> as "punctual" in a reference letter -- it could signal that the person
>> has no other important qualities.
>
> EWW and Org are very high-level Lisp applications, they aren't
> examples of basic features of Emacs as an editor.  So I'm not sure
> they are appropriate in that introductory section.

We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
local files. I'm biased, of course :-)

Best regards, Michael.

Message #14 received at 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rms <at> gnu.org, nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 12:30:44 +0300

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Cc: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>,  Richard Stallman
>  <rms <at> gnu.org>,  37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:47:32 +0200
> 
> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
> local files.

That would be indeed a good addition, IMO.  Thanks.

Message #17 received at 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rms <at> gnu.org, nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 15:27:09 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
>> local files.
>
> That would be indeed a good addition, IMO.  Thanks.

Done.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #20 received at 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 37812 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman <rms <at> gnu.org>,
 Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com>
Subject: RE: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 16:14:10 +0000 (UTC)

> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
> local files. I'm biased, of course :-)

+1

Message #25 received at 37812-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 37812-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, rms <at> gnu.org,
 nicholasdrozd <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#37812: Update Emacs manual intro with more compelling features
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2025 02:25:17 +0000

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> We could say that Emacs is able to edit remote files like they were
>>> local files.
>>
>> That would be indeed a good addition, IMO.  Thanks.
>
> Done.
>
> Best regards, Michael.

Thanks, as it doesn't seem like we'll get any further with this for now,
I'm closing this bug report.

Previous Next

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.