Received: (at 38252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2019 20:43:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 18 15:43:47 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46333 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iWnsA-0003bF-Lk for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 15:43:46 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:43230 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eric@HIDDEN>) id 1iWns8-0003b1-6Z for 38252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 15:43:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [205.175.106.77]) (Authenticated sender: eric@HIDDEN) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 845A6FA087; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:43:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#38252: 27.0.50; Gnus server definitions and generic function specializers References: <877e3yb0em.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1ru69cc0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87imnhan3t.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvd0dp95h5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:43:37 -0800 In-Reply-To: <jwvd0dp95h5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 17 Nov 2019 23:36:09 -0500") Message-ID: <87v9rgncee.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38252 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 38252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 11/17/19 23:36 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> But just so I don't feel like I wasted my afternoon: how *would* one >> write the generalizer I'm talking about? > > Ah, that part. > I guess It could look like (guaranteed 100% untested): > > (defvar gnus--legacy-server-tag (make-symbol "gnus-legacy-server")) > (cl-generic-define-generalizer gnus-legacy-server-generalizer > 90 (lambda (varname &rest _) > `(and (consp ,varname) > (symbolp (car ,varname)) > (assq (car ,varname) nnoo-definition-alist) > (stringp (cadr ,varname)) > gnus--legacy-server-tag)) > (lambda (tag &rest _) > (when (eq tag gnus--legacy-server-tag) (list tag)))) > > (cl-defmethod cl-generic-generalizers ((_ (eql gnus-legacy-server))) > "Dispatch on old-style Gnus server definitions." > (list gnus-legacy-server-generalizer)) That's perfect, thanks. I don't need tested code, I just needed to understand the logic of which bit is responsible for what. I wonder if it would be useful to have an example of this, either in the manual or cl-generic.el code comments? There's still a lot of work to do before struct servers and cons servers can coexist within Gnus, but it's nice to have this piece of the puzzle solved.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#38252; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#38252: 27.0.50; Gnus server definitions and generic
function specializers
Message-ID: <jwvd0dp95h5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <877e3yb0em.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwv1ru69cc0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<87imnhan3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 23:36:09 -0500
In-Reply-To: <87imnhan3t.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of
"Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:18:30 -0800")
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> But just so I don't feel like I wasted my afternoon: how *would* one
> write the generalizer I'm talking about?
Ah, that part.
I guess It could look like (guaranteed 100% untested):
(defvar gnus--legacy-server-tag (make-symbol "gnus-legacy-server"))
(cl-generic-define-generalizer gnus-legacy-server-generalizer
90 (lambda (varname &rest _)
`(and (consp ,varname)
(symbolp (car ,varname))
(assq (car ,varname) nnoo-definition-alist)
(stringp (cadr ,varname))
gnus--legacy-server-tag))
(lambda (tag &rest _)
(when (eq tag gnus--legacy-server-tag) (list tag))))
(cl-defmethod cl-generic-generalizers ((_ (eql gnus-legacy-server)))
"Dispatch on old-style Gnus server definitions."
(list gnus-legacy-server-generalizer))
-- Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#38252; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 38252) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2019 03:18:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 17 22:18:40 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1iWXYl-0004MK-Vx for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:18:40 -0500 Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:48192 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eric@HIDDEN>) id 1iWXYk-0004M8-7H for 38252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:18:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@HIDDEN) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3729FFA01D; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 03:18:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#38252: 27.0.50; Gnus server definitions and generic function specializers References: <877e3yb0em.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1ru69cc0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:18:30 -0800 In-Reply-To: <jwv1ru69cc0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 17 Nov 2019 21:03:00 -0500") Message-ID: <87imnhan3t.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 38252 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 38252 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 11/17/19 21:03 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> I'm ccing you directly because I suspect you're the only one who knows >> the answers to my questions :) > > I doubt it, there's a lot of people around here more familiar with > CLOS-style programming than I. > >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >> gnus-int.el: >> (cl-defgeneric gnus-request-list (server) >> "Docs and stuff.") >> >> (cl-defmethod gnus-request-list ((server gnus-server-legacy)) >> (funcall (gnus-get-function server 'request-list) >> (nth 1 server))) > > Why not just: > > (cl-defmethod gnus-request-list (server) > (funcall (gnus-get-function server 'request-list) > (nth 1 server))) > > which means "use it as a fallback". The downside is that it will be > used for non-legacy servers if there is no specific implementation for > that server, but presumably you can detect it and signal an appropriate > error somewhere inside gnus-get-function. > >> What I'm trying to do is fairly simple: if the argument is a list, and >> the head of the list is a symbol that can be assoc'd into >> `nnoo-definition-alist', and the second element is a string, then it's a >> gnus-legacy-server. > > Why not just use a `cons` specializer? > > IIUC all the non-legacy servers will use structs, so you don't need to > use a specializer that's so specific that it has to check "if the > argument is a list, and the head of the list is a symbol that can be > assoc'd into `nnoo-definition-alist', and the second element is > a string". Okay, perhaps I was overthinking this. I don't want to assume that the fallback is an old-style server (we might want to use the fallback for other purposes), but you're right that 'cons is pretty much sufficient. If anyone feeds a cons value into a Gnus server interface function that *isn't* a server definition, that falls into "serves you right" territory. But just so I don't feel like I wasted my afternoon: how *would* one write the generalizer I'm talking about? Thanks, Eric
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#38252: 27.0.50; Gnus server definitions and generic
function specializers
Message-ID: <jwv1ru69cc0.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <877e3yb0em.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 21:03:00 -0500
In-Reply-To: <877e3yb0em.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of
"Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:31:13 -0800")
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> I'm ccing you directly because I suspect you're the only one who knows
> the answers to my questions :)
I doubt it, there's a lot of people around here more familiar with
CLOS-style programming than I.
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> gnus-int.el:
> (cl-defgeneric gnus-request-list (server)
> "Docs and stuff.")
>
> (cl-defmethod gnus-request-list ((server gnus-server-legacy))
> (funcall (gnus-get-function server 'request-list)
> (nth 1 server)))
Why not just:
(cl-defmethod gnus-request-list (server)
(funcall (gnus-get-function server 'request-list)
(nth 1 server)))
which means "use it as a fallback". The downside is that it will be
used for non-legacy servers if there is no specific implementation for
that server, but presumably you can detect it and signal an appropriate
error somewhere inside gnus-get-function.
> What I'm trying to do is fairly simple: if the argument is a list, and
> the head of the list is a symbol that can be assoc'd into
> `nnoo-definition-alist', and the second element is a string, then it's a
> gnus-legacy-server.
Why not just use a `cons` specializer?
IIUC all the non-legacy servers will use structs, so you don't need to
use a specializer that's so specific that it has to check "if the
argument is a list, and the head of the list is a symbol that can be
assoc'd into `nnoo-definition-alist', and the second element is
a string".
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#38252; Package emacs.
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Subject: 27.0.50; Gnus server definitions and generic function specializers
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I'm working on changing Gnus servers into structs, and replacing the
nnoo.el architecture with generic functions, and while I think I've got
a workable roadmap I'm running into some practical confusions. Stefan
I'm ccing you directly because I suspect you're the only one who knows
the answers to my questions :)
The approach is this: Change the server interface functions in
gnus-int.el into generic functions. Provide a generalizer that
recognizes current Gnus servers, and dispatches to the current function
definitions (using `gnus-get-function' and all that). Gradually change
the in-tree backends to be defined with cl-defstruct, and use normal
dispatching-on-struct for those. Eventually the legacy generalizer would
be left in place just to deal with old-style out-of-tree backends.
As an example, here's what `gnus-request-list' currently looks like:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
gnus-int.el:
(defun gnus-request-list (gnus-command-method)
(funcall (gnus-get-function gnus-command-method 'request-list)
(nth 1 gnus-command-method)))
nnimap.el:
(deffoo nnimap-request-list (&optional server)
<get IMAP group list>)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Afterward it would look like this:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
gnus-int.el:
(cl-defgeneric gnus-request-list (server)
"Docs and stuff.")
(cl-defmethod gnus-request-list ((server gnus-server-legacy))
(funcall (gnus-get-function server 'request-list)
(nth 1 server)))
nnimap.el:
(cl-defmethod gnus-request-list ((server gnus-server-imap))
<get IMAP group list>)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
The nnimap version will dispatch on the `gnus-server-imap' defstruct,
that happens automatically. What I need is to be able to write a
generalizer/specializer that will recognize a legacy server (if calling
it "legacy" is annoying I can find something else) and dispatch on it.
The docstring of `cl-generic-define-generalizer' is gnomic, though I
found some better information in the docstring of
`cl-generic-generalizers', and looked at some of the existing
generalizer definitions.
Here's what I've worked up so far:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(cl-generic-define-generalizer gnus-legacy-server-generalizer
90 (lambda (name &rest _) `(???)
(lambda (tag &rest _) (when (eq (car-safe tag) 'gnus-legacy-server)
(list tag))))
(cl-defmethod cl-generic-generalizers :extra "gnus-legacy-server" (thing)
"Dispatch on old-style Gnus server definitions."
(when wut?
(list gnus-legacy-server-generalizer)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
What I'm trying to do is fairly simple: if the argument is a list, and
the head of the list is a symbol that can be assoc'd into
`nnoo-definition-alist', and the second element is a string, then it's a
gnus-legacy-server. I just don't know where that test is supposed to go,
or why.
I understand this will probably be inefficient and ugly, but I hope that
before too long it would be a rare case that the generalizer is checked
at all.
Thanks,
Eric
Eric Abrahamsen <eric@HIDDEN>:larsi@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.larsi@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#38252; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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