GNU bug report logs - #38730
27.0.50; tutorial start does not take into account the customization notice

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary <at> traduction-libre.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.0.50; tutorial start does not take into account the  customization
 notice
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:37:57 +0900

When starting the Tutorial in an emacs session that has modified
keybindings, an information notice is displayed in red/bold characters at the top of the screen.

That notice pushes the first step of the tutorial to below the visible space of the frame. The user thus cannot see the first step and has to manually scroll down to see it, which defeats the purpose of that first step where the user learns to use C-v to move one screenful down...

In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 7, x86_64-apple-darwin19.0.0, NS appkit-1894.10 Version 10.15.1 (Build 19B88))
of 2019-12-05 built on mabinogion.local
Repository revision: 9027084793831031926c12d3bdfa132ec6ac4e60


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune

Message #8 received at 38730 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary <at> traduction-libre.org>
Cc: 38730 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38730: 27.0.50;
 tutorial start does not take into account the  customization notice
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:41:40 +0200

> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary <at> traduction-libre.org>
> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:37:57 +0900
> 
> When starting the Tutorial in an emacs session that has modified
> keybindings, an information notice is displayed in red/bold characters at the top of the screen.
> 
> That notice pushes the first step of the tutorial to below the visible space of the frame. The user thus cannot see the first step and has to manually scroll down to see it, which defeats the purpose of that first step where the user learns to use C-v to move one screenful down...

I'm not sure what use case is described here.  If keybindings have
been modified, we probably aren't talking about a complete newcomer to
Emacs, so at least simple cursor motion should already be a skill
he/she already acquired, right?  He/she might already know to scroll
with PgDn or the mouse wheel, right?

OTOH, in a customized session, we can reasonably expect to see a
window that is larger than the default shown by "emacs -Q", and maybe
then the beginning of the tutorial will still be visible?

And if none of the above helps, then what kind of solution would you
propose for such a situation?

Message #13 received at 38730-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary <at> traduction-libre.org>,
 38730-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#38730: 27.0.50; tutorial start does not take into account the
 customization notice
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:57:40 -0700

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary <at> traduction-libre.org>
>> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:37:57 +0900
>>
>> When starting the Tutorial in an emacs session that has modified
>> keybindings, an information notice is displayed in red/bold characters at the top of the screen.
>>
>> That notice pushes the first step of the tutorial to below the visible space
>> of the frame. The user thus cannot see the first step and has to manually
>> scroll down to see it, which defeats the purpose of that first step where the
>> user learns to use C-v to move one screenful down...
>
> I'm not sure what use case is described here.  If keybindings have
> been modified, we probably aren't talking about a complete newcomer to
> Emacs, so at least simple cursor motion should already be a skill
> he/she already acquired, right?  He/she might already know to scroll
> with PgDn or the mouse wheel, right?
>
> OTOH, in a customized session, we can reasonably expect to see a
> window that is larger than the default shown by "emacs -Q", and maybe
> then the beginning of the tutorial will still be visible?
>
> And if none of the above helps, then what kind of solution would you
> propose for such a situation?

I agree with Eli, and there has been no no further replies here within
35 weeks.  I'm therefore going to assume the above reply resolved the
problem and close this bug now.

If this conclusion is incorrect, please reply to this email (use "Reply
to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the bug report.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

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