GNU bug report logs - #39359
[patch] TUTORIAL: Be accurate about "buffer" vs "file"; capitalize Dired. Four other trivial TUTORIAL patches

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>; Keywords: patch; dated Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:43:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Severity set to 'minor' from 'normal' Request was from Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 39359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <ca71c06ca89ec9dec8eefbbacac698ad@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#39359: [patch] TUTORIAL: Be accurate about "buffer" vs
 "file"; capitalize Dired. Four other trivial TUTORIAL patches
To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83sgjwkm8q.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <83sgjwkm8q.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <79a6fd311edba2ddfbd36da083be2bd5@HIDDEN>
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January 31, 2020 6:29 AM, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:=0A=0A> (T=
his is yet another reason why introducing buffers before they are=0A> des=
cribed in the tutorial might be a step in the wrong direction.)=0A=0AI un=
derstand.  I only disambiguated buffer vs file after the BUFFERS=0Asectio=
n.=0A=0A> Bottom line: I think in this case accuracy is less important th=
an=0A> providing an introduction to Emacs usage that is as free from=0A> =
complexities as practically possible.=0A=0AI understand.  However, if the=
 user learns too much inaccuracy, she can=0Abe confused later when she tr=
ies to consult docstrings or the Info=0Amanual, because (IIRC) these use =
technical terminology.=0A=0ABesides, the current tutorial is slightly inc=
onsistent in the EXTENDING=0ATHE COMMAND SET section, because it says "Sa=
ve file" for C-x C-s, but=0A"Save some buffers" for	C-x s.=0A=0ASo I've m=
ade a second attempt.  I don't want to waste your time with my=0AOCD, so =
if after analyzing the second attempt you decide to just apply=0Athe part=
s you agree with (even if just the capitalization fix at the=0Aend: "dire=
d" -> "Dired") and proceed to discuss the other trivial patches=0A(and I =
can open separate bug reports for them if you wish), I'm OK with=0Athat.=
=0A=0A--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---=
=0Adiff --git a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0Aindex a=
7017336a7..536351c582 100644=0A--- a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A+++ b/etc/t=
utorials/TUTORIAL=0A@@ -662,13 +662,15 @@ There are many C-x commands.  H=
ere is a list of the ones you have learned:=0A =0A 	C-x C-f		Find file=0A=
 	C-x C-s		Save file=0A-	C-x s		Save some buffers=0A+	C-x s		Save some fi=
les=0A 	C-x C-b		List buffers=0A 	C-x b		Switch buffer=0A 	C-x C-c		Quit =
Emacs=0A 	C-x 1		Delete all but one window=0A 	C-x u		Undo=0A =0A+(Techni=
cally, C-x C-s is "save-buffer" and C-x s is save-some-buffers.)=0A+=0A N=
amed eXtended commands are commands which are used even less=0A frequentl=
y, or commands which are used only in certain modes.  An=0A example is th=
e command replace-string, which replaces one string with=0A@@ -696,13 +69=
8,13 @@ want to change only some of the occurrences.)=0A * AUTO SAVE=0A -=
----------=0A =0A-When you have made changes in a file, but you have not =
saved them yet,=0A-they could be lost if your computer crashes.  To prote=
ct you from=0A-this, Emacs periodically writes an "auto save" file for ea=
ch file that=0A-you are editing.  The auto save file name has a # at the =
beginning and=0A-the end; for example, if your file is named "hello.c", i=
ts auto save=0A-file's name is "#hello.c#".  When you save the file in th=
e normal way,=0A-Emacs deletes its auto save file.=0A+When you have made =
changes in a file (technically, to its buffer), but=0A+you have not saved=
 them yet, they could be lost if your computer=0A+crashes.  To protect yo=
u from this, Emacs periodically writes an "auto=0A+save" file for each fi=
le that you are editing.  The auto save file=0A+name has a # at the begin=
ning and the end; for example, if your file=0A+is named "hello.c", its au=
to save file's name is "#hello.c#".  When=0A+you save the file in the nor=
mal way, Emacs deletes its auto save file.=0A =0A If the computer crashes=
, you can recover your auto-saved editing by=0A finding the file normally=
 (the file you were editing, not the auto=0A@@ -730,13 +732,15 @@ The mod=
e line says something like this:=0A This line gives useful information ab=
out the status of Emacs and=0A the text you are editing.=0A =0A-You alrea=
dy know what the filename means--it is the file you have=0A-found.  NN% i=
ndicates your current position in the buffer text; it=0A-means that NN pe=
rcent of the buffer is above the top of the screen.=0A-If the top of the =
buffer is on the screen, it will say "Top" instead=0A-of " 0%".  If the b=
ottom of the buffer is on the screen, it will say=0A-"Bot".  If you are l=
ooking at a buffer so small that all of it fits on=0A-the screen, the mod=
e line says "All".=0A+You already know what "TUTORIAL" means--it is the c=
urrent file's name=0A+(technically it is the buffer's name, but, when you=
 are editing a file,=0A+by default that is the file's name).  NN% indicat=
es your current=0A+position in the buffer text; it means that NN percent =
of the buffer is=0A+above the top of the screen.  If the top of the buffe=
r is on the=0A+screen, it will say "Top" instead of " 0%".  If the bottom=
 of the=0A+buffer is on the screen, it will say "Bot".  If you are lookin=
g at a=0A+buffer so small that all of it fits on the screen, the mode lin=
e says=0A+"All".=0A =0A The L and digits indicate position in another way=
: they give the=0A current line number of point.=0A@@ -763,8 +767,8 @@ ma=
jor mode is the name of an extended command, which is how you can=0A swit=
ch to that mode.  For example, M-x fundamental-mode is a command to=0A sw=
itch to Fundamental mode.=0A =0A-If you are going to be editing human-lan=
guage text, such as this file, you=0A-should probably use Text Mode.=0A+I=
f you are going to be editing human-language text, such as this=0A+tutori=
al, you should probably use Text Mode.=0A =0A >> Type M-x text-mode <Retu=
rn>.=0A =0A@@ -1084,7 +1088,7 @@ corresponding command names (such as C-x=
 C-f beside find-file).=0A You can learn more about Emacs by reading its =
manual, either as a=0A printed book, or inside Emacs (use the Help menu o=
r type C-h r).=0A Two features that you may like especially are completio=
n, which saves=0A-typing, and dired, which simplifies file handling.=0A+t=
yping, and Dired, which simplifies file handling.=0A =0A Completion is a =
way to avoid unnecessary typing.  For instance, if you=0A want to switch =
to the *Messages* buffer, you can type C-x b *M<Tab>=0A--8<--------------=
-cut here---------------end--------------->8---=0A=0ARegards=0A- I am Bra=
zilian.  I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback=0A- Please a=
dopt free formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z=0A- Free/l=
ibre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org/=
=0A- [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software=
?]]




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#39359; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 39359 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <79a6fd311edba2ddfbd36da083be2bd5@HIDDEN>
 (jorge+list@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#39359: [patch] TUTORIAL: Be accurate about "buffer" vs "file"; 
 capitalize Dired.  Four other trivial TUTORIAL patches
References: <79a6fd311edba2ddfbd36da083be2bd5@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:41:48 +0000
> From: "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>
> 
> Hello.  This trivial patch is my first patch submitted to a free
> software project (not counting wiki edits), so please do not hesitate to
> correct any mistakes (including the potential mistake of being too
> nitpicky).  Now the commit message, followed by the patch:
> 
> TUTORIAL: Be accurate about "buffer" vs "file"; capitalize Dired
> 
> - Disambiguate "buffer" vs "file" after the section that explains
>   buffers.

Thanks.

Personally, my gut feeling is that we shouldn't introduce this
complexity in the tutorial.  Users coming from other editors are used
to saying "save the file" (and the evidence is the File->Save menu
item present in many applications, including Emacs).  So "save file"
is natural, whereas "save buffer into the file it visits" is less so,
and for newbies any complication at this stage is an obstacle.  It is
no accident that buffers are described in the tutorial only after
files.  (This is yet another reason why introducing buffers before
they are described in the tutorial might be a step in the wrong
direction.)

Bottom line: I think in this case accuracy is less important than
providing an introduction to Emacs usage that is as free from
complexities as practically possible.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#39359; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <79a6fd311edba2ddfbd36da083be2bd5@HIDDEN>
Subject: [patch] TUTORIAL: Be accurate about "buffer" vs "file";
 capitalize Dired.  Four other trivial TUTORIAL patches
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
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Hello.  This trivial patch is my first patch submitted to a free=0Asoftwa=
re project (not counting wiki edits), so please do not hesitate to=0Acorr=
ect any mistakes (including the potential mistake of being too=0Anitpicky=
).  Now the commit message, followed by the patch:=0A=0ATUTORIAL: Be accu=
rate about "buffer" vs "file"; capitalize Dired=0A=0A- Disambiguate "buff=
er" vs "file" after the section that explains=0A  buffers.=0A- Capitalize=
 "Dired".=0A=0A--8<---------------cut here---------------start-----------=
-->8---=0Adiff --git a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A=
index a7017336a7..4f24264f4d 100644=0A--- a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A+++ =
b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A@@ -662,5 +662,5 @@ There are many C-x command=
s.  Here is a list of the ones you have learned:=0A =0A 	C-x C-f		Find fi=
le=0A-	C-x C-s		Save file=0A+	C-x C-s		Save buffer=0A 	C-x s		Save some b=
uffers=0A 	C-x C-b		List buffers=0A@@ -697,11 +697,11 @@ want to change o=
nly some of the occurrences.)=0A -----------=0A =0A-When you have made ch=
anges in a file, but you have not saved them yet,=0A-they could be lost i=
f your computer crashes.  To protect you from=0A-this, Emacs periodically=
 writes an "auto save" file for each file that=0A-you are editing.  The a=
uto save file name has a # at the beginning and=0A-the end; for example, =
if your file is named "hello.c", its auto save=0A-file's name is "#hello.=
c#".  When you save the file in the normal way,=0A-Emacs deletes its auto=
 save file.=0A+When you have made changes in a file-visiting buffer, but =
you have not=0A+saved them yet, they could be lost if your computer crash=
es.  To=0A+protect you from this, Emacs periodically writes an "auto save=
" file=0A+for each such buffer that you are editing.  The auto save file =
name has=0A+a # at the beginning and the end; for example, if your file i=
s named=0A+"hello.c", its auto save file's name is "#hello.c#".  When you=
 save=0A+the buffer in the normal way, Emacs deletes its auto save file.=
=0A =0A If the computer crashes, you can recover your auto-saved editing =
by=0A@@ -731,6 +731,6 @@ This line gives useful information about the sta=
tus of Emacs and=0A the text you are editing.=0A =0A-You already know wha=
t the filename means--it is the file you have=0A-found.  NN% indicates yo=
ur current position in the buffer text; it=0A+You already know what "TUTO=
RIAL" means--it is the current buffer's=0A+name.  NN% indicates your curr=
ent position in the buffer text; it=0A means that NN percent of the buffe=
r is above the top of the screen.=0A If the top of the buffer is on the s=
creen, it will say "Top" instead=0A@@ -764,6 +764,6 @@ switch to that mod=
e.  For example, M-x fundamental-mode is a command to=0A switch to Fundam=
ental mode.=0A =0A-If you are going to be editing human-language text, su=
ch as this file, you=0A-should probably use Text Mode.=0A+If you are goin=
g to be editing human-language text, such as this=0A+buffer, you should p=
robably use Text Mode.=0A =0A >> Type M-x text-mode <Return>.=0A@@ -1085,=
5 +1085,5 @@ You can learn more about Emacs by reading its manual, either=
 as a=0A printed book, or inside Emacs (use the Help menu or type C-h r).=
=0A Two features that you may like especially are completion, which saves=
=0A-typing, and dired, which simplifies file handling.=0A+typing, and Dir=
ed, which simplifies file handling.=0A =0A Completion is a way to avoid u=
nnecessary typing.  For instance, if you=0A--8<---------------cut here---=
------------end--------------->8---=0A=0A=0ABelow are four other tiny pat=
ches to the TUTORIAL.  The largest adds=0Atwo lines.  If you wish, I can =
open a separate bug report for each.=0A=0ATUTORIAL: Put the least relevan=
t (nowadays) reason last=0A--8<---------------cut here---------------star=
t------------->8---=0Adiff --git a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL b/etc/tutorials=
/TUTORIAL=0Aindex eb3acde9c0..ee2ed65378 100644=0A--- a/etc/tutorials/TUT=
ORIAL=0A+++ b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A@@ -186,12 +186,13 @@ to type M-< =
also; without the shift key, you would be typing M-comma.=0A =0A You can =
also move the cursor with the arrow keys, if your terminal has=0A arrow k=
eys.  We recommend learning C-b, C-f, C-n and C-p for three=0A-reasons.  =
First, they work on all kinds of terminals.  Second, once=0A-you gain pra=
ctice at using Emacs, you will find that typing these Control=0A-characte=
rs is faster than typing the arrow keys (because you do not=0A-have to mo=
ve your hands away from touch-typing position).  Third, once=0A-you form =
the habit of using these Control character commands, you can=0A-easily le=
arn to use other advanced cursor motion commands as well.=0A+reasons.  Fi=
rst, once you gain practice at using Emacs, you will find=0A+that typing =
these Control characters is faster than typing the arrow=0A+keys (because=
 you do not have to move your hands away from=0A+touch-typing position). =
 Second, once you form the habit of using=0A+these Control character comm=
ands, you can easily learn to use other=0A+advanced cursor motion command=
s as well.  Third, they work on all=0A+kinds of terminals.=0A =0A Most Em=
acs commands accept a numeric argument; for most commands, this=0A serves=
 as a repeat-count.  The way you give a command a repeat count=0A--8<----=
-----------cut here---------------end--------------->8---=0A=0A=0ATUTORIA=
L: One can save to a file /after/ entering the text, via C-x C-w=0A--8<--=
-------------cut here---------------start------------->8---=0Adiff --git =
a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0Aindex ee2ed65378..29b=
76792ea 100644=0A--- a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A+++ b/etc/tutorials/TUTOR=
IAL=0A@@ -490,8 +490,8 @@ whether you can yank it with C-y; it makes no d=
ifference for undo.=0A =0A In order to make the text you edit permanent, =
you must put it in a=0A file.  Otherwise, it will go away when you exit E=
macs.  In order to=0A-put your text in a file, you must "find" the file b=
efore you enter the=0A-text.  (This is also called "visiting" the file.)=
=0A+put your text in a file, you normally "find" the file before you ente=
r=0A+the text.  (This is also called "visiting" the file.)=0A =0A Finding=
 a file means that you see the contents of the file within=0A Emacs.  In =
many ways, it is as if you were editing the file itself.=0A--8<----------=
-----cut here---------------end--------------->8---=0A=0A=0ATUTORIAL: Men=
tion (in passing) Emacs server for quick edits=0A--8<---------------cut h=
ere---------------start------------->8---=0Adiff --git a/etc/tutorials/TU=
TORIAL b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0Aindex 29b76792ea..dcfd2a3315 100644=0A-=
-- a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A+++ b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A@@ -656,7 +6=
56,7 @@ can resume Emacs with the "fg" command or with "%emacs".=0A =0A T=
he time to use C-x C-c is when you are about to log out.  It's also=0A th=
e right thing to use to exit an Emacs invoked for a quick edit, such=0A-a=
s by a mail handling utility.=0A+as by a mail handling utility (unless yo=
u use the Emacs server feature).=0A =0A There are many C-x commands.  Her=
e is a list of the ones you have learned:=0A--8<---------------cut here--=
-------------end--------------->8---=0A=0A=0ATUTORIAL: Query-replace is m=
ore user-friendly than replace-string=0A=0AIf we mention just replace-str=
ing, we might leave the impression that=0Ait is the usual way to do find-=
and-replace in Emacs, and thus scare=0Athe user.=0A--8<---------------cut=
 here---------------start------------->8---=0Adiff --git a/etc/tutorials/=
TUTORIAL b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0Aindex dcfd2a3315..a7017336a7 100644=
=0A--- a/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A+++ b/etc/tutorials/TUTORIAL=0A@@ -690,=
6 +690,8 @@ argument with <Return>.=0A    "changed" with "altered" wherev=
er it occurred, after the=0A    initial position of the cursor.=0A =0A+(T=
he command query-replace, by default bound to M-%, is useful if you=0A+wa=
nt to change only some of the occurrences.)=0A =0A * AUTO SAVE=0A -------=
----=0A--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---=
=0A=0AAnd I noticed the TUTORIAL exceeds the 72-character line limit in a=
 few=0Aplaces.  Can I refill it?=0A=0ARegards=0A--=0A- I am Brazilian.  I=
 hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback=0A- Please adopt free =
formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z=0A- Free/libre softw=
are for Android: https://f-droid.org/=0A- [[https://www.gnu.org/philosoph=
y/free-sw.html][What is free software?]]




Acknowledgement sent to "Jorge" <jorge+list@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#39359; Package emacs. Full text available.
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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.