GNU bug report logs - #3956
Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN>; Keywords: notabug confirmed; Done: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
bug closed, send any further explanations to 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Added tag(s) notabug. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#3956: Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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tags 3956 + notabug
close 3956
thanks

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
>> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
>> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
>> > >
>> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
>> >
>> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
>>
>> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
>> on the scrollbar.
>
> Yes, that's what I meant.
>
>> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
>> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
>> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
>> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
>> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.
>>
>> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
>> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.
>
> The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it
> cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer
> differ a lot in their length.

Then I conclude that this works as designed on macOS, and I'm closing
this bug.

(That said, this is an unusual feature, IMHO.)




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 (message from Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala on Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43
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Subject: Re: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
> Cc: 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
> > >
> > > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
> >
> > That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.
> 
> By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
> on the scrollbar.

Yes, that's what I meant.

> My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
> Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
> corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
> is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
> scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.
> 
> Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
> does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.

The thumb reflects the size in characters, not in screen lines, so it
cannot be constant as you scroll, especially if lines in the buffer
differ a lot in their length.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 23:35:43 +0300
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On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 9:06 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
> >
> > Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.
>
> That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.

By height changing I mean the tallness of the thumb, not its position
on the scrollbar. My display resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I start
Emacs with emacs -Q, click the maximize window button in the top right
corner, and go to the tutorial by pressing C-h t. The scrollbar thumb
is now 24 pixels tall. Now if I press C-v to scroll down, the
scrollbar thumb grows to be 42 pixels tall.

Is it actually meant to work this way? GTK+ Emacs on my Debian machine
does not change the size of the scrollbar thumb as I scroll.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#3956: Happens on Windows too
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> From: Ville-Markus Yli-Suutala <villemarkus.ylisuutala@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:40:48 +0300
> 
> Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.

That's how the scroll-bar thumb was designed to work in Emacs.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Happens on Windows too
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Height of the scrollbar thumb changes while scrolling on Windows too.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.
Added tag(s) confirmed. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
bug Marked as found in versions 27.0.50. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Changed bug title to 'Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS' from '23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness' Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 3956 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
To: "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness
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retitle 3956 Scroll bar thumb changes size when scrolling on macOS
found 3956 27.0.50
thanks

"Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN> writes:

> When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll
> bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very
> distracting.

I can verify this still happens on macOS using current master.

> Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion which is
> jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually
> overshoots so badly that it's completely useless.

I think this has since been fixed.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
bug reassigned from package 'emacs' to 'emacs,ns'. Request was from Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at submit@HIDDEN:


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Subject: 23.1.50; Scrolling ugliness
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When scrolling up and down by using the keyboard, or dragging the scroll
bar thumb, the thumb will noticeably change size. This is ugly and very
distracting. Worse, trying to use the scroll wheel results in motion
which is jagged, unpredictable and ridiculously sensitive, and usually
overshoots so badly that it's completely useless.

In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.2 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0, NS apple-appkit-949.43)
 of 2009-07-28
Windowing system distributor `Apple', version 10.3.949
configured using `configure  '--with-ns''


-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...




Acknowledgement sent to "Otto Maddox" <ottomaddox@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-submit-list@HIDDEN, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>:
bug#3956; Package emacs. Full text available.
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