GNU bug report logs - #39618
28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles than actually exist

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles than actually exist
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 21:25:29 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
(which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
but which groups could not be normally entered.

Here is a description of what I observed:

1. When pressing <Return>, the cursor simply moves on to the next group
   line. The number of unread articles remains unchanged and non-zero.
2. When pressing <c> for `gnus-group-catchup-current', the unread
   article number becomes zero and upon <Return>, all read articles are
   displayed in the group. Upon exit from the group, upon "g"
   gnus-refresh the "ghost" unread article reappears.

Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
etc.

This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.

Attached are samples of 4 problematic groups in the newsrc.eld-problem file.
For example the "Bitcoin" group, the problem shows as.,
    - Total num articles: 42
    - unexist: 43
    - active: (active 1 . 43)

Similar with others.
The "Rent" group exhibits 4 "ghost" articles, the other groups 1.

It would be interesting to know:
  1. how such a thing can happen ?
  2. how can the situation be recovered without throwing all info out ?

Hopefully, this may contribute to making .newsrc and gnus more robust.

[newsrc.eld-problem.el (application/emacs-lisp, attachment)]

[newsrc.eld-restart.el (application/emacs-lisp, attachment)]

[Message part 4 (text/plain, inline)]

In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.12, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2020-02-05 built on dellcorei5dias
Repository revision: 271728c52295f3b01a2c8cc6c43dba2793ac7800
Repository branch: unify-select-methods
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid

Recent messages:
Mark set [4 times]
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Wrote /home/deusmax/newsrc.eld-restart.el
Saving file /home/deusmax/newsrc.eld-restart.el...
Wrote /home/deusmax/newsrc.eld-restart.el
Saving file /home/deusmax/newsrc.eld-problem.el...
Wrote /home/deusmax/newsrc.eld-problem.el

Configured using:
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Configured features:
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-sqlite hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-sqlite
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-exp hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-exp
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-perl hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-perl
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ox-latex hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ox-latex
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-duration hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-duration
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-comint hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-comint
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ox-man hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ox-man
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ox-md hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ox-md
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-src hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-src
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-coq hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-coq
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-mscgen hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-mscgen
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-ref hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-ref
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-awk hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-awk
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ol-mhe hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ol-mhe
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-attach hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-attach
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-entities hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-entities
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-js hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-js
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-core hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-core
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-habit hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-habit
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-shell hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-shell
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-macs hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-macs
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ol-info hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ol-info
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ol-eww hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ol-eww
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-mobile hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-mobile
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-agenda hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-agenda
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-stan hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-stan
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-J hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-J
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-eshell hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-eshell
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-id hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-id
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ol hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ol
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-colview hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-colview
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-haskell hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-haskell
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ol-gnus hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ol-gnus
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-datetree hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-datetree
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-makefile hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-makefile
/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/org-list hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/org-list
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-dot hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-dot
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/home/deusmax/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20200213/ob-gnuplot hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/org/ob-gnuplot

Features:
(shadow emacsbug dired-aux image-file dired-hide-dotfiles calccomp
calc-alg calc-menu calc-aent pass geiser-mode geiser-xref geiser-compile
geiser-debug geiser-gambit geiser-chibi geiser-mit geiser-chez
geiser-chicken geiser-racket geiser-guile geiser-repl geiser-image
geiser-company geiser-doc geiser-menu geiser-autodoc geiser-edit
geiser-completion geiser-eval geiser-connection geiser-syntax scheme
geiser-log geiser-popup view pdf-links ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs
pdf-tools pdf-isearch let-alist tablist tablist-filter
semantic/wisent/comp semantic/wisent semantic/wisent/wisent
semantic/util-modes semantic/util semantic semantic/tag semantic/lex
semantic/fw mode-local cedet pdf-misc pdf-view pdf-cache pdf-info
pdf-util treemacs-compatibility treemacs-mode treemacs-bookmarks thunk
treemacs-interface treemacs-extensions treemacs-persistence
treemacs-mouse-interface treemacs-tag-follow-mode
treemacs-filewatch-mode treemacs-tags treemacs-visuals
treemacs-fringe-indicator pulse treemacs-faces filenotify
treemacs-follow-mode treemacs-rendering treemacs-async treemacs-icons
treemacs-themes treemacs-workspaces treemacs-scope treemacs-dom
treemacs-core-utils treemacs-macros treemacs-customization ace-window
avy pfuture inline ht helm-pass password-store auth-source-pass
with-editor server cal-move org-eldoc flow-fill helpful trace info-look
f dash-functional elisp-refs s loop helm-bbdb helm-ring mailalias
bbdb-message outshine outshine-org-cmds outorg flyspell ispell org-toc
org-mouse org-crypt switch-window switch-window-mvborder
switch-window-asciiart quail ffap tabify emms-librefm-stream
emms-playlist-limit emms-volume emms-volume-mixerctl emms-volume-pulse
emms-volume-amixer emms-i18n emms-history emms-score emms-stream-info
emms-metaplaylist-mode emms-bookmarks emms-cue emms-mode-line-icon
emms-browser emms-player-xine emms-player-mpd emms-lyrics emms-streams
emms-show-all emms-tag-editor emms-info-metaflac emms-mark
emms-info-opusinfo emms-info-ogginfo emms-info-mp3info tq emms-mode-line
emms-url emms-librefm-scrobbler emms-playlist-sort emms-playlist-mode
emms-source-playlist emms-last-played emms-source-file locate emms-cache
emms-playing-time emms-player-simple emms-info later-do emms emms-compat
sgml-mode js2-mode etags fileloop xref project js imenu dabbrev tempo
term ehelp org-capture ol-bibtex org-attach org-id nnir doc-view
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Message #8 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:53:13 -0800

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
> (which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
> but which groups could not be normally entered.
>
> Here is a description of what I observed:
>
> 1. When pressing <Return>, the cursor simply moves on to the next group
>    line. The number of unread articles remains unchanged and non-zero.
> 2. When pressing <c> for `gnus-group-catchup-current', the unread
>    article number becomes zero and upon <Return>, all read articles are
>    displayed in the group. Upon exit from the group, upon "g"
>    gnus-refresh the "ghost" unread article reappears.
>
> Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
> the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
> as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
> etc.
>
> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.

This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.

In the meantime, is "M-g" on the problematic group(s) enough to
permanently fix the problem? Not a great solution, though better than
doctoring your .newsrc.eld file...

Message #11 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 21:56:51 +0200

On Sun, Feb 16 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
>> (which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
>> but which groups could not be normally entered.
>>
>> Here is a description of what I observed:
>>
>> 1. When pressing <Return>, the cursor simply moves on to the next group
>>    line. The number of unread articles remains unchanged and non-zero.
>> 2. When pressing <c> for `gnus-group-catchup-current', the unread
>>    article number becomes zero and upon <Return>, all read articles are
>>    displayed in the group. Upon exit from the group, upon "g"
>>    gnus-refresh the "ghost" unread article reappears.
>>
>> Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
>> the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
>> as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
>> etc.
>>
>> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.
>
> This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
> can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
> late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
> Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
> aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.
>
You think this is a nnimap or a general Gnus issue ?

Understanding how the newsrc file is written, should be next for me.

Is there any type of tracing, or profiling to turn on, until this
happens again ? Maybe set the gnus and back-end log levels to 10 ?

The primary thing a mail, em..sorry.. news-reader, should be is stable.
Not to have any corruption issues.


> In the meantime, is "M-g" on the problematic group(s) enough to
> permanently fix the problem? Not a great solution, though better than
> doctoring your .newsrc.eld file...

No difference. On testing your suggestion, the "M-g" was ignored as
was/is the regular "g".

Message #14 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:36:55 -0800

On 02/18/20 21:56 PM, Deus Max wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 16 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>
>>> Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
>>> (which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
>>> but which groups could not be normally entered.
>>>
>>> Here is a description of what I observed:
>>>
>>> 1. When pressing <Return>, the cursor simply moves on to the next group
>>>    line. The number of unread articles remains unchanged and non-zero.
>>> 2. When pressing <c> for `gnus-group-catchup-current', the unread
>>>    article number becomes zero and upon <Return>, all read articles are
>>>    displayed in the group. Upon exit from the group, upon "g"
>>>    gnus-refresh the "ghost" unread article reappears.
>>>
>>> Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
>>> the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
>>> as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.
>>
>> This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
>> can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
>> late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
>> Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
>> aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.
>>
> You think this is a nnimap or a general Gnus issue ?

I don't know. I suspect that it's a general Gnus issue, but it is more
evident with nnimap, since that's pretty much the only (?) server where
local marks must be kept in sync with a remote server. In principle,
there's no reason why Gnus would need to keep local marks for imap
groups.

> Understanding how the newsrc file is written, should be next for me.

It's just, with their lists of marks. The lists are in "gnus range"
format (see gnus-range.el), which is just a compressed list of integers:
'(1 2 3 4 6 12 21 22 23) => '((1. 4) 6 12 (21. 23))

They are treated as sets, with lots of the usual set manipulation
functions in gnus-range.el. Part of the problem is the direct
manipulation of ranges that happens elsewhere in the codebase, typically
impenetrable thickets of "(setcdr (nthcdr 3 range) (cadar range)" etc
etc, often with little or no comments.

On my (long) list of things to do with Gnus is to write several more
macros for range manipulation, so that all the messy stuff happens
inside gnus-range.el, and the rest of the codebase is fairly readable.
My hope is that, in the course of that process, bugs will show
themselves up.

> Is there any type of tracing, or profiling to turn on, until this
> happens again ? Maybe set the gnus and back-end log levels to 10 ?

Nothing that would show you anything about range manipulation, I don't
think.

> The primary thing a mail, em..sorry.. news-reader, should be is stable.
> Not to have any corruption issues.

No argument here...

>> In the meantime, is "M-g" on the problematic group(s) enough to
>> permanently fix the problem? Not a great solution, though better than
>> doctoring your .newsrc.eld file...
>
> No difference. On testing your suggestion, the "M-g" was ignored as
> was/is the regular "g".

Sorry, I don't know where else to look. My only solution is the hard
one: clean up range manipulation until we can see what's going on.

Message #17 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 22:06:59 +0200

On Tue, Feb 18 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> On 02/18/20 21:56 PM, Deus Max wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 16 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>
>>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
>>>> (which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
>>>> but which groups could not be normally entered.
>>>>
snip
>>>> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.
>>>
>>> This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
>>> can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
>>> late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
>>> Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
>>> aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.
>>>
>> You think this is a nnimap or a general Gnus issue ?
>
> I don't know. I suspect that it's a general Gnus issue, but it is more
> evident with nnimap, since that's pretty much the only (?) server where
> local marks must be kept in sync with a remote server. In principle,
> there's no reason why Gnus would need to keep local marks for imap
> groups.
>
Hey ! Maybe you have a point here.
Simplifying nnimap not to keep track of local marks, may not only reduce
complexity but also take care of this problem.
If it's not needed, it's a waste. What do you think ?

Of course, some info needs to be kept to avoid the heavy load that
occurs when one starts with an empty .newsrc.
For one, we have the group names...


>> Understanding how the newsrc file is written, should be next for me.
>
> It's just, with their lists of marks. The lists are in "gnus range"
> format (see gnus-range.el), which is just a compressed list of integers:
> '(1 2 3 4 6 12 21 22 23) => '((1. 4) 6 12 (21. 23))
>
> They are treated as sets, with lots of the usual set manipulation
> functions in gnus-range.el. Part of the problem is the direct
> manipulation of ranges that happens elsewhere in the codebase, typically
> impenetrable thickets of "(setcdr (nthcdr 3 range) (cadar range)" etc
> etc, often with little or no comments.
>
> On my (long) list of things to do with Gnus is to write several more
> macros for range manipulation, so that all the messy stuff happens
> inside gnus-range.el, and the rest of the codebase is fairly readable.
> My hope is that, in the course of that process, bugs will show
> themselves up.
>
Really interesting, thanks.
Sounds like a complete re-write of Gnus (streamlined of course!) is
hiding behind what you just said :-)


>> The primary thing a mail, em..sorry.. news-reader, should be is stable.
>> Not to have any corruption issues.
>
> No argument here...
>
>>> In the meantime, is "M-g" on the problematic group(s) enough to
>>> permanently fix the problem? Not a great solution, though better than
>>> doctoring your .newsrc.eld file...
>>
>> No difference. On testing your suggestion, the "M-g" was ignored as
>> was/is the regular "g".
>
> Sorry, I don't know where else to look. My only solution is the hard
> one: clean up range manipulation until we can see what's going on.

Thanks
I didn't find any other similar bug reports on debbugs. Is that just my
terrible search abilities ?

Message #20 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 14:08:57 -0800

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> On Tue, Feb 18 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> On 02/18/20 21:56 PM, Deus Max wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 16 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Recently my gnus started displaying (in the *Group* buffer) some groups
>>>>> (which had previously no unread articles) with an unread "ghost" article
>>>>> but which groups could not be normally entered.
>>>>>
> snip
>>>>> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.
>>>>
>>>> This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
>>>> can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
>>>> late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
>>>> Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
>>>> aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.
>>>>
>>> You think this is a nnimap or a general Gnus issue ?
>>
>> I don't know. I suspect that it's a general Gnus issue, but it is more
>> evident with nnimap, since that's pretty much the only (?) server where
>> local marks must be kept in sync with a remote server. In principle,
>> there's no reason why Gnus would need to keep local marks for imap
>> groups.
>>
> Hey ! Maybe you have a point here.
> Simplifying nnimap not to keep track of local marks, may not only reduce
> complexity but also take care of this problem.
> If it's not needed, it's a waste. What do you think ?
>
> Of course, some info needs to be kept to avoid the heavy load that
> occurs when one starts with an empty .newsrc.
> For one, we have the group names...

I think this is one of those things that sounds like it would be a great
idea, but would turn into an enormous mess if we tried to implement it.
Not that it's not worth doing, mind you!

>>> Understanding how the newsrc file is written, should be next for me.
>>
>> It's just, with their lists of marks. The lists are in "gnus range"
>> format (see gnus-range.el), which is just a compressed list of integers:
>> '(1 2 3 4 6 12 21 22 23) => '((1. 4) 6 12 (21. 23))
>>
>> They are treated as sets, with lots of the usual set manipulation
>> functions in gnus-range.el. Part of the problem is the direct
>> manipulation of ranges that happens elsewhere in the codebase, typically
>> impenetrable thickets of "(setcdr (nthcdr 3 range) (cadar range)" etc
>> etc, often with little or no comments.
>>
>> On my (long) list of things to do with Gnus is to write several more
>> macros for range manipulation, so that all the messy stuff happens
>> inside gnus-range.el, and the rest of the codebase is fairly readable.
>> My hope is that, in the course of that process, bugs will show
>> themselves up.
>>
> Really interesting, thanks.
> Sounds like a complete re-write of Gnus (streamlined of course!) is
> hiding behind what you just said :-)

Ha, I hope not! In fact, I think not keeping track of imap group marks
would be far more work. In this case, all we'd be doing is creating more
macros that could be used to gradually hide the implementation of
ranges. That could be done incrementally, as we had time.

>
>>> The primary thing a mail, em..sorry.. news-reader, should be is stable.
>>> Not to have any corruption issues.
>>
>> No argument here...
>>
>>>> In the meantime, is "M-g" on the problematic group(s) enough to
>>>> permanently fix the problem? Not a great solution, though better than
>>>> doctoring your .newsrc.eld file...
>>>
>>> No difference. On testing your suggestion, the "M-g" was ignored as
>>> was/is the regular "g".
>>
>> Sorry, I don't know where else to look. My only solution is the hard
>> one: clean up range manipulation until we can see what's going on.
>
> Thanks
> I didn't find any other similar bug reports on debbugs. Is that just my
> terrible search abilities ?

Dunno, probably not. I think there have been several conversations about
it on gnus.general, but maybe no bugs reports? Anyway, I think it's
worth leaving this one open.

Yours,
Eric

Message #23 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:56:21 +0100

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
> the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
> as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
> etc.
>
> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.

Do you use the Gnus Agent for these groups?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #26 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>, 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:57:59 +0100

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> Simplifying nnimap not to keep track of local marks, may not only reduce
> complexity but also take care of this problem.
> If it's not needed, it's a waste. What do you think ?

It's needed -- the data transferred from the IMAP server to the client
is impractically large if one were to do a complete resync each time.
The client keeps tracks of read/marked/etc messages, too, and just sends
a QRESYNC command to the server, which means "tell me everything that's
changed since last time".  This is vastly more efficient.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #29 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:56:10 -0800

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Simplifying nnimap not to keep track of local marks, may not only reduce
>> complexity but also take care of this problem.
>> If it's not needed, it's a waste. What do you think ?
>
> It's needed -- the data transferred from the IMAP server to the client
> is impractically large if one were to do a complete resync each time.
> The client keeps tracks of read/marked/etc messages, too, and just sends
> a QRESYNC command to the server, which means "tell me everything that's
> changed since last time".  This is vastly more efficient.

Yaar, that was a pretty out-there suggestion. And, as you've pointed out,
actually a bad idea.

Message #32 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:42:39 +0200

On Thu, Feb 20 2020, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Luckily, this being nnimap the situation can be recovered by removing
>> the .newsrc files and restarting gnus from scratch. This is not optimal,
>> as all other relevant configurations will be lost, such as group levels,
>> etc.
>>
>> This issue has happened before, it is not the first time.
>
> Do you use the Gnus Agent for these groups?

No. I don't use the Gnus Agent.
I'm always plugged-in when using gnus nnimap.

Message #35 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:48:25 +0100

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> No. I don't use the Gnus Agent.
> I'm always plugged-in when using gnus nnimap.

Anything in ~/News/cache for the groups?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #38 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 23:35:20 +0200

On Thu, Feb 20 2020, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> No. I don't use the Gnus Agent.
>> I'm always plugged-in when using gnus nnimap.
>
> Anything in ~/News/cache for the groups?

Currently no files in the ~/New/cache/active tree, but there might have
been.
I have erased the .newsrc.eld and started over.

Message #41 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 16:07:50 +0200

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> Currently no files in the ~/New/cache/active tree, but there might have
> been.
> I have erased the .newsrc.eld and started over.

Are you still seeing these problems?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #46 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>, 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:29:58 +0300

On Sun, Jul 19 2020, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>> Currently no files in the ~/New/cache/active tree, but there might have
>> been.
>> I have erased the .newsrc.eld and started over.
>
> Are you still seeing these problems?

Since clearing my .newsrc and starting over (I could not correct the
article counts otherwise), I have not experienced the problem again.

As Eric wrote in a previous message, that it seems to happen from
time-to-time.

On Tue, Feb 18 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> On 02/18/20 21:56 PM, Deus Max wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 16 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>>
>>> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> This definitely happens to many of us from time to time. Unfortunately I
>>> can't really reproduce the problem, as by the time it appears it's too
>>> late to figure out where it came from, though I assume it has to do with
>>> Gnus calculating unread messages from a high-low range, and not being
>>> aware of "filled in" read messages within that range.
>>>
>> You think this is a nnimap or a general Gnus issue ?
>
> I don't know. I suspect that it's a general Gnus issue, but it is more
> evident with nnimap, since that's pretty much the only (?) server where
> local marks must be kept in sync with a remote server. In principle,
> there's no reason why Gnus would need to keep local marks for imap
> groups.
>

So, this is a known issue that comes-up occasionally.

Clearing the .newsrc is not the best solution, as it also clear other
useful info, such as group levels.

Perhaps, there could be a function -for the nnimap backend- to
reset the article counts for a specific group or server?

Message #49 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 08:44:28 -0700

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:


[...]

> Clearing the.newsrc is not the best solution, as it also clear other
> useful info, such as group levels.
>
> Perhaps, there could be a function -for the nnimap backend- to
> reset the article counts for a specific group or server?

If it's just happening in a few problem groups, I think you could edit
the group info ("G E") and just delete the marks for that group in
particular. That would still require a little care, but be less drastic
than clearing.newsrc.eld altogether, and ought to achieve the same
effect.

Message #52 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 19:41:52 +0300

On Mon, Jul 27 2020, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
>> Clearing the.newsrc is not the best solution, as it also clear other
>> useful info, such as group levels.
>>
>> Perhaps, there could be a function -for the nnimap backend- to
>> reset the article counts for a specific group or server?
>
> If it's just happening in a few problem groups, I think you could edit
> the group info ("G E") and just delete the marks for that group in
> particular. That would still require a little care, but be less drastic
> than clearing.newsrc.eld altogether, and ought to achieve the same
> effect.

Thanks Eric,

That is great advice. I have encountered the issue about 3 times,
though now it has been a while without a problem. Each time I ended up
starting over. The last time, even tried to edit the .newsrc manually.

If/when it happens again, will use your advice and see how it goes. I
have a feeling it should be good.

Thank you.

Message #55 received at 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com>
Cc: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>, 39618 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39618: 28.0.50; gnus nnimap reports more group articles
 than actually exist
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 23:57:02 +0200

Deus Max <deusmax <at> gmx.com> writes:

> That is great advice. I have encountered the issue about 3 times,
> though now it has been a while without a problem. Each time I ended up
> starting over. The last time, even tried to edit the .newsrc manually.
>
> If/when it happens again, will use your advice and see how it goes. I
> have a feeling it should be good.

OK; I'll close this bug report now.  If this problem reappears, please
open a new bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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