GNU bug report logs - #39940
The variable operating-system-release

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Message #3 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:19:31 -0500

Package: emacs
Version: 28.0.50
Severity: wishlist

I found the variable 'operating-system-release' for the first time today.

1) This isn't what I would call the operating system release.
Eg my current operating system is CentOS, release 8.1.
operating-system-release is "4.18.0-147.5.1.el8_1.x86_64",
which is the kernel version. (Surprising to find these two things
mixed up in a GNU project. :) )

2) I don't see why it is useful to have a Lisp variable for this
(it had one use in the Emacs C code before c996fe1ec6).
I suggest obsoleting it.

Message #6 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:42:34 +0200

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2020 20:19:31 -0500
> 
> I found the variable 'operating-system-release' for the first time today.
> 
> 1) This isn't what I would call the operating system release.
> Eg my current operating system is CentOS, release 8.1.
> operating-system-release is "4.18.0-147.5.1.el8_1.x86_64",
> which is the kernel version. (Surprising to find these two things
> mixed up in a GNU project. :) )
> 
> 2) I don't see why it is useful to have a Lisp variable for this
> (it had one use in the Emacs C code before c996fe1ec6).
> I suggest obsoleting it.

(My Git repository doesn't know about commit c996fe1ec6.  AFAICT, this
variable was added in 3bb9abc.)

Some relevant information:

This variable was added due to the issues discussed in this old
thread:

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html

See also

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00835.html

(I guess I never got any responses, and so the documentation never
happened ;-)

Message #9 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 07:26:10 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Some relevant information:
>
> This variable was added due to the issues discussed in this old
> thread:
>
>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html

I did not read the complete thread, but I guess the upshot is that we're
not going to obsolete this variable.

I have altered the doc string to say what it actually is, though.

> See also
>
>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00835.html
>
> (I guess I never got any responses, and so the documentation never
> happened ;-)

This bit in particular:

> Finally, and most importantly, if we add the call to uname, why not
> store all of the info it returns in some Lisp data structure, not just
> the OS release?

That is a good question, and would be a better design than just this
single variable.  But I guess that nobody has requested the rest of the
data?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #16 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 04:30:39 -0500

Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

>>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-01/msg00629.html
>
> I did not read the complete thread, but I guess the upshot is that we're
> not going to obsolete this variable.

A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.

Message #19 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 07:10:56 +0100

Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:

> A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
> The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
> Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.

True.  I see that Eli added support for it on Windows too now, so I
guess he disagrees.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #22 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 10:38:47 +0200

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 07:10:56 +0100
> 
> Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > A total of two short mails in the thread mention this variable.
> > The variable was used only in mac-win.el, which was removed in 2008.
> > Seems like a great candidate for obsolescence to me.
> 
> True.  I see that Eli added support for it on Windows too now, so I
> guess he disagrees.  :-)

I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
can fix that.  It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
Windows.  But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
won't object.

Message #25 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 08:24:12 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
> platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
> can fix that.  It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
> Windows.  But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
> deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
> won't object.

I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
marked it as obsolete.  If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
whether anybody pipes up.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #28 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:06:22 +0000

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't like a situation where some
>> platforms have that variable at the nil value, when a 5-line change
>> can fix that.  It was a surprise for me to discover the nil value on
>> Windows.  But those 5 lines aren't sacred to me, so if we decide to
>> deprecate the variable and eventually remove the supporting code, I
>> won't object.
>
> I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
> usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
> marked it as obsolete.  If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
> reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
> whether anybody pipes up.

Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

Message #31 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:07:48 +0200

> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  rgm <at> gnu.org,  39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:06:22 +0000
> 
> > I have no strong opinion on the matter, but since there are no in-tree
> > usages (any more), and the variable seems rather awkward, I've now
> > marked it as obsolete.  If somebody out-of-tree actually uses it, then
> > reverting the obsoletion would also be fine by me, but I guess we'll see
> > whether anybody pipes up.
> 
> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?

We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.

Message #34 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 03:21:45 +0000

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  rgm <at> gnu.org,  39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:06:22 +0000
>> 
>> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
>
> We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
> AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.

At least on GNU/Linux, report-emacs-bug does not currently report the
kernel version.  I was wondering whether that would be useful
information to include.  Does report-emacs-bug already include the
information provided by operating-system-release on other platforms?

Thanks,

-- 
Basil

Message #37 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 05:37:01 +0200

> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
> Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org,  rgm <at> gnu.org,  39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 03:21:45 +0000
> 
> >> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?
> >
> > We already have a similar facility for report-emacs-bug, don't we?
> > AFAIR, it doesn't rely on this variable.
> 
> At least on GNU/Linux, report-emacs-bug does not currently report the
> kernel version.  I was wondering whether that would be useful
> information to include.  Does report-emacs-bug already include the
> information provided by operating-system-release on other platforms?

It depends on what you mean by "kernel version".  What we have there
can be seen in report-emacs-bug--os-description.

Message #40 received at 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 39940 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39940: The variable operating-system-release
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 09:25:30 +0100

"Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie> writes:

> Would its value be of any use in report-emacs-bug?

Not excessively -- I can't recall a single Emacs bug report where
knowing what the kernel version is would be helpful.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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