GNU logs - #40950, boring messages

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:34:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B.158810960821124 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
From: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:28:53 +0200
Message-Id: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=51.68.137.137; envelope-from=sirmacik@HIDDEN;
 helo=mail.freearts.agency
Precedence: list
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

---
Hi!
With big rekado help I'm sending you a patch with at least partially
fixes the issue of crontab -e reporting missing /var/cron/tabs
directory.

 gnu/services/mcron.scm | 12 +++++++++++-
 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/gnu/services/mcron.scm b/gnu/services/mcron.scm
index d9627c6bd0..ca9a54a041 100644
--- a/gnu/services/mcron.scm
+++ b/gnu/services/mcron.scm
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
 ;;; GNU Guix --- Functional package management for GNU
 ;;; Copyright © 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 Ludovic Courtès <ludo@HIDDEN>
+;;; Copyright © 2020 Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
 ;;;
 ;;; This file is part of GNU Guix.
 ;;;
@@ -128,6 +129,12 @@ files."
               (actions
                (list (shepherd-schedule-action mcron files)))))))))

+(define (mcron-service-activation config)
+  (with-imported-modules '((guix build utils))
+    #~(begin
+        (use-modules (guix build utils))
+        (mkdir-p "/var/cron/tabs"))))
+
 (define mcron-service-type
   (service-type (name 'mcron)
                 (description
@@ -137,7 +144,10 @@ files."
                                           mcron-shepherd-services)
                        (service-extension profile-service-type
                                           (compose list
-                                                   mcron-configuration-mcron))))
+                                                   mcron-configuration-mcron))
+                       (service-extension activation-service-type
+                                          mcron-service-activation)))
+
                 (compose concatenate)
                 (extend (lambda (config jobs)
                           (mcron-configuration
--
2.26.2

Message sent:

Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#40950: Acknowledgement ([PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs
 on activation)
Message-ID: <handler.40950.B.158810960821124.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 40950
X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-Gnu-PR-Keywords: patch
Reply-To: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 21:34:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 guix-patches@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
40950: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D40950
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 22:07:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.15883707641175 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Cc: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 00:05:50 +0200
In-Reply-To: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN> (Marcin Karpezo's
 message of "Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:28:53 +0200")
Message-ID: <877dxvb9a9.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Precedence: list
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

Hi Marcin,

Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:

> With big rekado help I'm sending you a patch with at least partially
> fixes the issue of crontab -e reporting missing /var/cron/tabs
> directory.

Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken, creating /var/cron/tabs will silence =E2=80=9C=
crontab -e=E2=80=9D,
but those entries will still be ignored because mcron=E2=80=99s crond is not
running (IIRC the cron functionality of mcron is separate and requires
you to run crond, which we don=E2=80=99t do.)

One option would be to write a different service altogether running that
daemon and creates /var/cron/tabs like you did.

Another option would be to remote the =E2=80=98crontab=E2=80=99 program fro=
m our =E2=80=98mcron=E2=80=99
package to at least avoid disappointments.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 10:05:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.158841386214691 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Cc: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 10:03:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <fdc3df69-e352-48bd-8222-6db93f746a41@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <877dxvb9a9.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
 <877dxvb9a9.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Precedence: list
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

2 maj 2020 00:06:16 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN>:

> Hi Marcin,
>
> Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>
> > With big rekado help I'm sending you a patch with at least partially
> > fixes the issue of crontab -e reporting missing /var/cron/tabs
> > directory.
> >
>
> Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken, creating /var/cron/tabs will silence =E2=80=
=9Ccrontab -e=E2=80=9D,
> but those entries will still be ignored because mcron=E2=80=99s crond is =
not
> running (IIRC the cron functionality of mcron is separate and requires
> you to run crond, which we don=E2=80=99t do.)
>
> One option would be to write a different service altogether running that
> daemon and creates /var/cron/tabs like you did.
>
> Another option would be to remote the =E2=80=98crontab=E2=80=99 program f=
rom our =E2=80=98mcron=E2=80=99
> package to at least avoid disappointments.
>
> Thoughts?

Why won't start supporting and running mcron's crond daemon? That way guix =
will finally have normal fully functional cron which will ease administrati=
on not only on personal machines but also on server side. It's nice to have=
 everything defined in one config file but it isn't as handy for multiuser =
setup.

I think instead of avoiding disappointment it would be better to positively=
 surprise the users. I know that guix thrives in what sets it apart from ot=
her distros, but it's better to keep things standard whenever its possible =
and follow the rule of least surprise. Especially if it won't be damaging f=
or the goals of the project.

Cheers
Marcin

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 13:46:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.158842710119841 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40950
X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch
To: Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Cc: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 40950-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B40950.158842710119841
          (code B ref 40950); Sat, 02 May 2020 13:46:01 +0000
Received: (at 40950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2020 13:45:01 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1jUsRi-00059K-Iz
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 09:45:01 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48518)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1jUsRg-000594-LC
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 09:44:45 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57509)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>)
 id 1jUsRa-0005lI-5N; Sat, 02 May 2020 09:44:38 -0400
Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=47424 helo=ribbon)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256)
 (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>)
 id 1jUsRZ-0008Og-31; Sat, 02 May 2020 09:44:37 -0400
From: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
 <877dxvb9a9.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <fdc3df69-e352-48bd-8222-6db93f746a41@localhost>
X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/
X-Revolutionary-Date: 14 =?UTF-8?Q?Flor=C3=A9al?= an 228 de la =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?=
X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5
X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc
X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4  0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5
X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 15:44:35 +0200
In-Reply-To: <fdc3df69-e352-48bd-8222-6db93f746a41@localhost> (Marcin
 Karpezo's message of "Sat, 2 May 2020 10:03:51 +0000 (UTC)")
Message-ID: <87mu6q78os.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Hi Marcin,

Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:

> 2 maj 2020 00:06:16 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN>:
>
>> Hi Marcin,
>> Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:
>>
>>
>> > With big rekado help I'm sending you a patch with at least
>> > partially fixes the issue of crontab -e reporting missing
>> > /var/cron/tabs directory.
>> >
>> Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken, creating /var/cron/tabs will silence =E2=80=
=9Ccrontab
>> -e=E2=80=9D, but those entries will still be ignored because mcron=E2=80=
=99s crond
>> is not running (IIRC the cron functionality of mcron is separate and
>> requires you to run crond, which we don=E2=80=99t do.)
>> One option would be to write a different service altogether running
>> that daemon and creates /var/cron/tabs like you did.
>> Another option would be to remote the =E2=80=98crontab=E2=80=99 program =
from our
>> =E2=80=98mcron=E2=80=99 package to at least avoid disappointments.
>> Thoughts?
>
> Why won't start supporting and running mcron's crond daemon? That way
> guix will finally have normal fully functional cron which will ease
> administration not only on personal machines but also on server
> side. It's nice to have everything defined in one config file but it
> isn't as handy for multiuser setup.

Yeah I agree.  (I personally run a user shepherd, itself starting a user
mcron, but I admit that=E2=80=99s a config not everyone may be willing to
replicate.)

> I think instead of avoiding disappointment it would be better to
> positively surprise the users. I know that guix thrives in what sets
> it apart from other distros, but it's better to keep things standard
> whenever its possible and follow the rule of least
> surprise. Especially if it won't be damaging for the goals of the
> project.

Agreed!

That brings us to my first proposal above: writing a crond service that
runs mcron=E2=80=99s crond.  Would you like to give it a try?

(There=E2=80=99s also scron available.  I think someone had proposed a serv=
ice
for it, but I can=E2=80=99t find it.)

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: sirmacik <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:10:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.159043014819845 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40950
X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch
To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Cc: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 40950-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B40950.159043014819845
          (code B ref 40950); Mon, 25 May 2020 18:10:01 +0000
Received: (at 40950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2020 18:09:08 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42502 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1jdHX9-0005A1-TB
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:09:08 -0400
Received: from mail.freearts.agency ([51.68.137.137]:53416)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <sirmacik@HIDDEN>) id 1jdHX8-00059t-GM
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:09:07 -0400
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon)
 with ESMTPSA id 67F604127B; Mon, 25 May 2020 20:08:57 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wioo.waw.pl; s=dkim;
 t=1590430137;
 h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id:
 to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type:
 content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:
 in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references;
 bh=T7gz5n/NjNSx0FT7Lv90y4Z6KznKlvRfIxkyAdDi2JM=;
 b=XuWIaVsdZ0ug3eDWOLrdHydck9IGu0a2UTv8zemc4hL6BrK5rE7dW7Z8YKCWUqsgzJ5oAY
 7XNevSF/AY+Q3xjvJkDYoKCKzS4zBCYipG013E3ylWivlrGBnhbCeYvtl4A8kGRMkqtGn1
 ADQUanYu526V5fH0I+AbS/rI3tdkpBB085TyFEeEXhnK02U5G1eqGNpqu43FYoe4ku7V4e
 Y9qhqX+cZn5yiskG982mb5WuYfJRHkUpAx93rfxlu9pOU08S+XZ/ySKJQ4MvgDnnSIk6rm
 5DP7zre5dVL90sIXCM0qlqFeHVvdlpMQTwSevIZuxgVY0I55UEcUp2E7DKRgAw==
From: sirmacik <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
 <877dxvb9a9.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <fdc3df69-e352-48bd-8222-6db93f746a41@localhost>
 <87mu6q78os.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-PGP-Key: https://sirmacik.net/dl/sirmacik_wioo.asc
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 20:08:50 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87mu6q78os.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic
 \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\=
 \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Sat, 02 May 2020 15:44:35 +0200")
Message-ID: <87367nriod.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hi Marcin,
>
> Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> 2 maj 2020 00:06:16 Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN>:
>>
>>> Hi Marcin,
>>> Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN> skribis:
>>>
>>>
>>> > With big rekado help I'm sending you a patch with at least
>>> > partially fixes the issue of crontab -e reporting missing
>>> > /var/cron/tabs directory.
>>> >
>>> Unless I=E2=80=99m mistaken, creating /var/cron/tabs will silence =E2=
=80=9Ccrontab
>>> -e=E2=80=9D, but those entries will still be ignored because mcron=E2=
=80=99s crond
>>> is not running (IIRC the cron functionality of mcron is separate and
>>> requires you to run crond, which we don=E2=80=99t do.)
>>> One option would be to write a different service altogether running
>>> that daemon and creates /var/cron/tabs like you did.
>>> Another option would be to remote the =E2=80=98crontab=E2=80=99 program=
 from our
>>> =E2=80=98mcron=E2=80=99 package to at least avoid disappointments.
>>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Why won't start supporting and running mcron's crond daemon? That way
>> guix will finally have normal fully functional cron which will ease
>> administration not only on personal machines but also on server
>> side. It's nice to have everything defined in one config file but it
>> isn't as handy for multiuser setup.
>
> Yeah I agree.  (I personally run a user shepherd, itself starting a user
> mcron, but I admit that=E2=80=99s a config not everyone may be willing to
> replicate.)
>
>> I think instead of avoiding disappointment it would be better to
>> positively surprise the users. I know that guix thrives in what sets
>> it apart from other distros, but it's better to keep things standard
>> whenever its possible and follow the rule of least
>> surprise. Especially if it won't be damaging for the goals of the
>> project.
>
> Agreed!
>
> That brings us to my first proposal above: writing a crond service that
> runs mcron=E2=80=99s crond.  Would you like to give it a try?
>
> (There=E2=80=99s also scron available.  I think someone had proposed a se=
rvice
> for it, but I can=E2=80=99t find it.)

Dear Ludo=E2=80=99,

I haven't forgot about this issue. Writing simple service isn't a
problem, but I've found out that despite running cron daemon, crontab
doesn't notice it. I've reported that behaviour on mcron mailing
list[1].

Second issue that I haven't figured out yet is creating crontab file for
each user of the system upon cron service activation. It needs
/var/cron/tabs to be owned by root: and crontab for each user to be
owned by him, ideally by (for example) user1:user1.=20

[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-mcron/2020-05/msg00012.html

--
Cheers,
sirmacik
PGP: 0xE0DC81D523891771

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: [bug#40950] Mcron originator: My opinion
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Resent-From: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:44:03 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.159239779510700 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40950
X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch
To: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 40950-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B40950.159239779510700
          (code B ref 40950); Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:44:03 +0000
Received: (at 40950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2020 12:43:15 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50708 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1jlXPP-0002mU-3R
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:43:15 -0400
Received: from rdmp.org ([52.19.174.175]:33388)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>) id 1jlXPK-0002m0-NI
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:43:11 -0400
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by rdmp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92)
 (envelope-from <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>) id 1jlXPE-0002M8-Eo
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:43:04 +0000
Message-ID: <e36bcec5b148119d067f0eddda77acf28b4b2e57.camel@HIDDEN>
From: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:43:03 +0100
Organization: DM Bespoke Computer Solutions Ltd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5-1.1 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+)
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org",
 has NOT identified this incoming email as spam.  The original
 message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 Content preview:  Hello, for information I don't agree with having a central
 crond process running on the system. I put it in mcron only for compatibility
 with legacy crons, but think that it is *much* better for each servic [...]
 Content analysis details:   (1.9 points, 10.0 required)
 pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL           SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail)
 0.9 SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL      SPF: HELO does not match SPF record (softfail)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/)

Hello,

   for information I don't agree with having a central crond process
running on the system.  I put it in mcron only for compatibility with
legacy crons, but think that it is *much* better for each service which
needs one, and each user, to run their own private daemon and manage their
own configuration.  The reasons include:

  * reliability: one faulty client or scheme configuration clause is less
likely to make the system unavailable to others;
  * security: UNIX users can only mess with their own configurations, and
there is no need for any SUID programs;
  * safety: I think the mcron personality gets much more use in practice,
hence is tested by many more people;
  * efficiency: using the legacy crontab directories means that the daemon
has to wake up and scan all these files once per minute, even if the
actions are only performed once per day or even once per month;
  * convenience: I think it is actually simpler all round to have separate
configurations for each utility that needs cron service, rather than
splicing and editing existing central system-wide files.

   Basically, all these things are the reasons I developed mcron in the
first place.

   As an aside, I would love to be able to pull out all of the legacy
compatibility stuff from the mcron code, as it would massively simplify my
life!  (Don't worry, it probably won't happen).

Kind regards,
Dale Mellor

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: [bug#40950] Mcron originator: My opinion
Resent-From: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:51:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.159239821711365 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40950
X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch
To: 40950 <40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Received: via spool by 40950-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B40950.159239821711365
          (code B ref 40950); Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:51:02 +0000
Received: (at 40950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2020 12:50:17 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1jlXWC-0002xF-Sp
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:50:17 -0400
Received: from rdmp.org ([52.19.174.175]:33392)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>) id 1jlXW9-0002x0-E2
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:50:15 -0400
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by rdmp.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92)
 (envelope-from <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>) id 1jlXW3-0002MT-3b
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:50:07 +0000
Message-ID: <46db3aac93281ca584a42de4662cc9edf0c7968d.camel@HIDDEN>
From: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:50:06 +0100
In-Reply-To: <e36bcec5b148119d067f0eddda77acf28b4b2e57.camel@HIDDEN>
References: <e36bcec5b148119d067f0eddda77acf28b4b2e57.camel@HIDDEN>
Organization: DM Bespoke Computer Solutions Ltd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5-1.1 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++)
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org",
 has NOT identified this incoming email as spam.  The original
 message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 Content preview:  As a postscript to the last message,
 note that the last bullet
 point is especially pertinent in the context of Guix, where each package
 is installed, with its particular configuration files, under its [...] 
 Content analysis details:   (3.9 points, 10.0 required)
 pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL           SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail)
 0.9 SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL      SPF: HELO does not match SPF record (softfail)
 2.0 PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_SHORT Short body with To: name matches
 everything in local email
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++)
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org",
 has NOT identified this incoming email as spam.  The original
 message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  As a postscript to the last message, note that the last bullet
    point is especially pertinent in the context of Guix, where each package
   is installed, with its particular configuration files, under its [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (2.9 points, 10.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL           SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail)
  0.9 SPF_HELO_SOFTFAIL      SPF: HELO does not match SPF record (softfail)
 -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI     Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list
                             manager
  2.0 PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_SHORT Short body with To: name matches
                             everything in local email

As a postscript to the last message, note that the last bullet point is
especially pertinent in the context of Guix, where each package is
installed, with its particular configuration files, under its own root in
the system store.

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: [bug#40950] [PATCH] mcron, create /var/cron/tabs on activation
Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: guix-patches@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 16:13:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.40950.B40950.162852553823504 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40950
X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch
To: Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN>
Cc: 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Marcin Karpezo <sirmacik@HIDDEN>
Received: via spool by 40950-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B40950.162852553823504
          (code B ref 40950); Mon, 09 Aug 2021 16:13:01 +0000
Received: (at 40950) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2021 16:12:18 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1mD7sw-000672-C8
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 12:12:18 -0400
Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172]:33607)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>) id 1mD7su-00066o-H3
 for 40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 12:12:17 -0400
Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id b1so12955760qtx.0
 for <40950 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 09 Aug 2021 09:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id
 :user-agent:mime-version;
 bh=t2BbO+nomhs4dBjRG/OYSjrCVJ8i4uIOl+cxeQkx0G4=;
 b=htTJcCUmSmrKbYb6rTC7c+ekM+8ArnYLlGTPP6jgce03udIlt1LTzrIj6gylJ3QI9u
 iiBIwKISvO5lIpaDvDjCNe7Qy7b0cLHvMylWrF4Gbav7hyV/quAQW9w4SfWgcnvz4u/N
 0j9bOqiSVCNOGu02FL14I57XD4AFqG1oVLvnOiMfDh+pITzL7vACYGQaZtuOu9yRZ9S0
 VBui+LZBQesPZxwCbtaRHPtd1KQ7/lIr0WM0ZBEz5CsJrPecEjhJICUl+FH2HvXcjVsI
 O3eJsrarRW/X5SHqgzdn2JsfVTzaS1ASDMz85MWiKw6tULz/3+ZFBmGF8oLimHCyZT4b
 DBlg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to
 :message-id:user-agent:mime-version;
 bh=t2BbO+nomhs4dBjRG/OYSjrCVJ8i4uIOl+cxeQkx0G4=;
 b=rK5rPGEWC1+TzTDJuDDsmlyTqYMRyt9XsenSDw+tEF4gEfzTnxnEW/Njfq/LOiMOdt
 fnFsIetWx40IPefD3YLhtcFa2fQ7ifSZu7NNoAFi6Nxn0N0AxCJLGX4SwjlaGaP9RdBO
 Mh9y+/xPeGU/SyLc93QvPwug/Gq3OUy+LxE3squLmGEAUDx7KZzZADurmakZSTjHfVKL
 IJjGOfrYJsv9jjkH0aWMu1yZqdGm2AiL5EdQ3IcVcpOYysklS0yX7HRBTUpYaTQIY0Fs
 CztHOFHV3udYMYeldyzRdDJiRftkhlMEljHYpVapQr4X5u1SQdHecGbPuzJJdZPRbwOj
 lwAQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5330zCHqqCnPHB97z/6wfqWyxOCyXJCdYd9kK+pPjjCLuVDrQLMk
 D1rDZjxsZ16O9phCdxOjSag=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzcWjQAQC31JsCDZRNxCQRLxPB0KgI7byETXO8d42WHHQaxte+yA94+9T0CT8Ne6NrBXMX/Gw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1995:: with SMTP id
 u21mr21158460qtc.77.1628525531078; 
 Mon, 09 Aug 2021 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hurd (dsl-155-134.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.155.134])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j2sm6895900qtn.46.2021.08.09.09.12.10
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Mon, 09 Aug 2021 09:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
References: <20200428212852.19552-1-sirmacik@HIDDEN>
 <e36bcec5b148119d067f0eddda77acf28b4b2e57.camel@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 12:12:09 -0400
In-Reply-To: <e36bcec5b148119d067f0eddda77acf28b4b2e57.camel@HIDDEN> (Dale
 Mellor's message of "Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:43:03 +0100")
Message-ID: <87bl661tt2.fsf_-_@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Hello,

Dale Mellor <guix-devel-0brg6b@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello,
>
>    for information I don't agree with having a central crond process
> running on the system.  I put it in mcron only for compatibility with
> legacy crons, but think that it is *much* better for each service which
> needs one, and each user, to run their own private daemon and manage their
> own configuration.  The reasons include:
>
>   * reliability: one faulty client or scheme configuration clause is less
> likely to make the system unavailable to others;
>   * security: UNIX users can only mess with their own configurations, and
> there is no need for any SUID programs;
>   * safety: I think the mcron personality gets much more use in practice,
> hence is tested by many more people;
>   * efficiency: using the legacy crontab directories means that the daemon
> has to wake up and scan all these files once per minute, even if the
> actions are only performed once per day or even once per month;
>   * convenience: I think it is actually simpler all round to have separate
> configurations for each utility that needs cron service, rather than
> splicing and editing existing central system-wide files.
>
>    Basically, all these things are the reasons I developed mcron in the
> first place.
>
>    As an aside, I would love to be able to pull out all of the legacy
> compatibility stuff from the mcron code, as it would massively simplify my
> life!  (Don't worry, it probably won't happen).

Thanks for tipping in!

In light of this, it seems it'd be a better option to add crond support
at the level of Guix Home, which would allow easily configuring mcrond
as a user service rather than at the system level.

Thanks,

Maxim

Last modified: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 16:15:01 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.