X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 00:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B.160375700810161 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: report 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.160375700810161 (code B ref -1); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 00:04:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2020 00:03:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42038 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXCSV-0002dp-NF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:03:27 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36668) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <roland.illig@HIDDEN>) id 1kXCSU-0002di-MY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:03:20 +0100 From: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 01:03:19 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:83.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/83.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BIM/f2VBOp9AORDqfhBLQ/lKtOQp4lCERivDBFyoqIHBU+WAMVh wwCAqmj5H/HOhJu1p5MO4mc2ivrNIpaomGilPbyGmlEIye7lpdhFgwTxkadp+pgCZS4j0aF lmmktt9hGYr3gTw4UDuGqi4RN9v0N/cTNI8rdjCdXEvt88c+hmdIvbJucH0lCAe0A7WoPMc b5NW4E/Y22AtOHQ1TYaXg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1Cem5a9UAjQ=:zlhPWqOXbhGWSOeTDKac76 am/oqiDWNBk0rFAdRFLEbAyzvots9HcOrOGJRNlbW0etoaoK84zpeZRTrS27YN/bfkATxphu6 5p7vXNdbAzlUMrTUAbaFq/sVoB+6yh28fUgNiKRjmGsoCs0tmSgq8HvsfPuuPxOb8wIdIGhm2 RrAZ/mRlLEK8dzPoOl3c2wKUnbM1BMLO9jFGXDF0iz++uKvULiJufsE62dyqe6VPGQznTROsC 8S2QxcW3sldfsrQxhRz47+25+vnyEFa8seXx9toPvktFryrKnlAuWq+zI0Lj9cl7/5UJt+Wdc oig9W2g5Qv+CG00aQin6FLhisTCqZj1r8l8l60bTpbKQ7OANHAAvZb8iFEo54K7kYKZ+tnt/y RWj+rzMvqumo9naOAiqoHiVE0BikxHdh0f942fwrDfi1GmiSpO++dFOFl6qSTxcdFNKIkXVI7 645HdlIC87tC3t9ZBSehEs2N6O2GBmi7LuDKODAMAWL4/YHwmQ3uCzbbxeqHLcY6UJfBAg0ne Y/NHtbGqWaJtGJE5hTMvNILtaj52kVpvpdXkjEG0voRKlz11PqaGuWwFNa0W7kOkgzckfLxdi FUMdlGalWEZ67Jq1PiJ1U6uvQfA3F6bKDU+cKgseo1IzJh84RkG19QiVQIpw4Um31SOr37DUu b9enlYolKjr5NzODG0oKOqtLq/tUF2pM5RA6rEkSxnvZSe8a+UthDxAml00TcnOuUqbRKXQiF 6bwVjtpOJRSFxa5zildI+r6nhB39Er60QE+0hFHBdHcr7Gd11K8Jmqw07mqw4DdJZIRkNFRju zdyCKIE9stjrNcESTQ+2BlL17ISM44XYFw4tTL0tR2Wp8VMO+8IYbiosbHRW66IH4jpx3HXy+ 3dWKy0cHmc15z8wrRfkg== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=roland.illig@HIDDEN; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/26 20:03:21 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hi, As the German translator of coreutils, I fixed the indentation of the =2D-help output today, for coreutils 8.31.90. While doing that, I noticed that the option "-z, --zero-terminated" is used by several programs that have different "native" indentation widths. Therefore their --help output looks inconsistent. The affected programs are: join shuf sort uniq. Could you perhaps give each of these programs its own message, properly indented to match the other options? I also noticed that the --help and --version strings are only translated once, which is good as it saved me some boring work. But they are indented at a different width than the other options. Some of the programs add an empty line before the --help and --version lines, which looks ok. Several others do not add a line, which looks wrong. This should be consistent among all coreutils. In src/cat.c:115, the German translation for the first example takes 2 lines instead of 1. The second line should be aligned nicely with the first line, but there's no way to know beforehand how long the %s from the first line will be, since the program name may be prefixed with "g" or "gnu-" or pretty much any other string. What is the correct way of solving this problem? Roland
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#44248: Acknowledgement (Indentation of --help and --version) Message-ID: <handler.44248.B.160375700810161.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 44248 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 00:04:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-coreutils@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 44248: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D44248 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.160376516131065 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.160376516131065 (code B ref 44248); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2020 02:19:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXEa0-00084y-NO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 22:19:20 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:55580) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1kXEZy-00084j-3l for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One way to attack the problem is (1) use only one-liners for option help, and (2) not worry about indentation so much (either in English or in German) as the excess indenting doesn't help readability enough to justify the translation hassle. To do that, I propose changes like the attached for comm. This will cause 'comm --help' output to look like the following, which is good enough and which will still work with help2man: Usage: comm [OPTION]... FILE1 FILE2 Compare sorted files FILE1 and FILE2 line by line. When FILE1 or FILE2 (not both) is -, read standard input. With no options, produce three-column output. Column one contains lines unique to FILE1, column two contains lines unique to FILE2, and column three contains lines common to both files. -1 suppress column 1 (lines unique to FILE1) -2 suppress column 2 (lines unique to FILE2) -3 suppress column 3 (lines that appear in both files) --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted --output-delimiter=STR separate columns with STR --total output a summary -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline --help display this help and exit --version output version information and exit Note, comparisons honor the rules specified by 'LC_COLLATE'. Examples: comm -12 file1 file2 Print only lines present in both file1 and file2. comm -3 file1 file2 Print lines in file1 not in file2, and vice versa. GNU coreutils online help: <https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/> Full documentation <https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/comm> or available locally via: info '(coreutils) comm invocation' --------------9596523A568EA01A5FEC2CE9 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="coreutils-comm-help.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="coreutils-comm-help.diff" diff --git a/src/comm.c b/src/comm.c index 2bf8094bf..2893746cb 100644 --- a/src/comm.c +++ b/src/comm.c @@ -128,24 +128,23 @@ and column three contains lines common to both files.\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ \n\ - -1 suppress column 1 (lines unique to FILE1)\n\ - -2 suppress column 2 (lines unique to FILE2)\n\ - -3 suppress column 3 (lines that appear in both files)\n\ + -1 suppress column 1 (lines unique to FILE1)\n\ + -2 suppress column 2 (lines unique to FILE2)\n\ + -3 suppress column 3 (lines that appear in both files)\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ \n\ - --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted, even\n\ - if all input lines are pairable\n\ - --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted\n\ + --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted\n\ + --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ --output-delimiter=STR separate columns with STR\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ - --total output a summary\n\ + --total output a summary\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ - -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline\n\ + -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline\n\ "), stdout); fputs (HELP_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); fputs (VERSION_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); --------------9596523A568EA01A5FEC2CE9--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.160380804014230 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN>, 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.160380804014230 (code B ref 44248); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2020 14:14:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXPjc-0003hR-3X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:14:00 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:36583) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1kXPja-0003hD-K9 for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:13:59 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id x7so2104034wrl.3 for <44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4hdb70rHFkV+kwi3LVbyAttsgrniM7VDCKodyURDL28=; b=jjmnPlcwT7ZwlT3U3SQrfZ7K49VCah/7dlJIjQio2w7x2PYb7v74hpe0WKewD1AHUk /HPLyDq7D1JUBScGRvnZsijENJpYjlhkdcIPtVGwsUR56XndG4gobRICEfPIGaFL54Uv MeqvjQ5KZGlvg1o/2qTq5fHCdMXebaIWJzeBnRg4su6pogKqWiTHvwrGWBJeMn+erkDP A0zr/QdNVkEgr38Dum1VYBItSjSwljlbWAwWeUhAP8wt5dgQA7ys1cJxGpHcY8u3Ra+L YdWMpOjxNFG166teTp3G04vuKOi5zb4yDxq3sva4QncphgYTHU0Pi8OtkkyYE/+bMu3q 8r5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4hdb70rHFkV+kwi3LVbyAttsgrniM7VDCKodyURDL28=; b=reI8mWa0iYpYIm1YNeHrolDRtT4xpJUzD5UG/F1GftJmtBfdhVXORcEH8nbb1QRWar T+gbCm8EF8+kU+uVOwgASBEL+P2Cjiv2WfzM8T0u+EH7AKUpcWn/eme6bD8E2livK/+g yVG4gVd1P4/K3WLIgRuNXXBjEoocR28XSiwXM6DnCnp0d0RLb4ZF4LtQ0BRqh/NymK6V LdoLPC2v53DNvXrugMBBowl4vjeLC+9cujdocU9zkaO1KKlAax6Svt+irSBPC4oHwJbk 9YapNBgvcnFnc7ycfRo4ODYw1WvyLHefE53dK52iPUfyh3/jhbTY1dy6m+pSW0BlVj8G cRgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5301RLFRkhLS9MkE9F1YcHxkMEaCOH/4hyhyiHSfr8xNEOAQifK8 vuZmJVe7wDF6HiQchp+ogLoFXMTGm6pNMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzWD3N52xmfTFSlFTfBSLb5vf2axO3/zn4YgCrVnxWWiSBeOilp7QWexEOmR+LVVIKdJcjSjQ== X-Received: by 2002:adf:fe09:: with SMTP id n9mr3244592wrr.144.1603808032617; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (86-42-14-227-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [86.42.14.227]) by smtp.googlemail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id x21sm2026795wmi.3.2020.10.27.07.13.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <daeb750c-7a70-7d13-8d89-6212f384e16d@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:13:50 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:82.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/82.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F6771F9089610AE4D8A968A9" Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F6771F9089610AE4D8A968A9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 27/10/2020 00:03, Roland Illig wrote: > Hi, > Some of the programs add an empty line before the --help and --version lines, which > looks ok. Several others do not add a line, which looks wrong. This > should be consistent among all coreutils. I agree we should make things as consistent as possible. Though most utils do _not_ have a blank line before --help,--version. The following utils do have a blank line: $ ./build-aux/gen-lists-of-programs.sh --list-progs | while read p; do src/$p --help | grep -B1 -- --help | grep -q '^$' && echo $p; done | fmt arch coreutils hostname hostid uptime users [ b2sum base64 base32 chcon chgrp chown cksum dd expr factor false link logname md5sum nohup printf realpath runcon sha1sum sha224sum sha256sum sha384sum sha512sum sleep true tsort unlink whoami yes Of those above, those that also have other options are: base64 chcon chgrp chown md5sum realpath runcon Now chcon, chgrp, chown, md5sum discuss the options before --help,--version as a group and so a blank line is best there. Therefore to improve consistency we should remove the blank line from: base64, realpath, and runcon, which is done in the attached. cheers, Pádraig --------------F6771F9089610AE4D8A968A9 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="help-blank.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="help-blank.patch" From 70935f301c3142ac1811dcf54348a24f937aa77c Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: =?UTF-8?q?P=C3=A1draig=20Brady?= <P@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:10:14 +0000 Subject: [PATCH] doc: make blank lines before --help consistent * src/basenc.c (main): Remove extraneous blank line, to be consistent with other utils with options. * src/realpath.c: Likewise. * src/runcon.c: Likewise. Addresses https://bugs.gnu.org/44248 --- src/basenc.c | 1 - src/realpath.c | 1 - src/runcon.c | 1 - 3 files changed, 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/src/basenc.c b/src/basenc.c index 13c37f904..ee24a3f15 100644 --- a/src/basenc.c +++ b/src/basenc.c @@ -142,7 +142,6 @@ Base%d encode or decode FILE, or standard input, to standard output.\n\ -i, --ignore-garbage when decoding, ignore non-alphabet characters\n\ -w, --wrap=COLS wrap encoded lines after COLS character (default 76).\n\ Use 0 to disable line wrapping\n\ -\n\ "), stdout); #if BASE_TYPE == 42 fputs (_("\ diff --git a/src/realpath.c b/src/realpath.c index 6ed5f05c3..4391c697f 100644 --- a/src/realpath.c +++ b/src/realpath.c @@ -85,7 +85,6 @@ all but the last component must exist\n\ --relative-base=DIR print absolute paths unless paths below DIR\n\ -s, --strip, --no-symlinks don't expand symlinks\n\ -z, --zero end each output line with NUL, not newline\n\ -\n\ "), stdout); fputs (HELP_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); fputs (VERSION_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); diff --git a/src/runcon.c b/src/runcon.c index b2f4d4a0b..05cbb4f87 100644 --- a/src/runcon.c +++ b/src/runcon.c @@ -93,7 +93,6 @@ With neither CONTEXT nor COMMAND, print the current security context.\n\ -u, --user=USER user identity\n\ -r, --role=ROLE role\n\ -l, --range=RANGE levelrange\n\ -\n\ "), stdout); fputs (HELP_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); fputs (VERSION_OPTION_DESCRIPTION, stdout); -- 2.26.2 --------------F6771F9089610AE4D8A968A9--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.160380811314414 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.160380811314414 (code B ref 44248); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2020 14:15:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45363 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXPkm-0003kQ-Nm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:15:12 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com ([209.85.221.48]:35389) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1kXPkk-0003kA-Q8 for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:15:11 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id n15so2121448wrq.2 for <44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Jil7IekPrdlDkWoUKpRp+xx/GpYz+pKIRbwSVZPk2es=; b=kpE2gxcBaT72JDt1WigfQwpz/ZvdsljmJUIm9ZZ2uCwp6Bd06Mb6qiRc1gTi1GeqF6 RxLtf+w79xgyfaj0/f0IhuXmgIjlIPdj7Z/sykUKHj5v1a0VBRG6gwWDi27jO9+nGNbB gOuyhB0ZW1lC6Rp8ZqxQ1iyoE+wVeBaI/qhdHkizDAgODKJ0kvVPjpATExmlz3EVSiWY wt7TQUm3KldP2YEV4kCZSAhkvYMjQmN44cYY0Wwn6+DsvGey2isIlRBkkoFFyb9Q5NGF 1xtuGVNP5MwUWQ1RRrDwgH/Y7gxv060RYpvzZoObqrUgtEOyl3rRVzb3qDjSbihqpgq6 Zjeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Jil7IekPrdlDkWoUKpRp+xx/GpYz+pKIRbwSVZPk2es=; b=AZhPgKl25PegS9wEfK3TiPXMzkGj2q29Ka9LS/u0nS4YkYRt86c4LdBIM2tKcygsea YNmCA573UrKyHSeUwGXyKp9ozEXFIK5mlXgxU9Ozl5hlvSIJ4l3uBgTOA3z4AMTlvSt2 foldRNh0NVbHcQT2UmsDTZsLMfmIETiXS4w6AcoH2LQW0MHw9SeyD53oARtmgsLXssEa RZ61lHPPhiqnH/TaqsKGsfVYKA0dcknqay5/jQawN7qRNjPLBBcka3EC5Ezm38wkkyG3 jNTKDa+ZsEviIregilvOl86bnot90g3ZkwCo0TeSOrxPDzVKirx9SdOwwxaLU/DsAUv6 aZOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53354EU70gV3S74/tmVCJqDBYtjYFWMuABKd/aRB3WZxdVAh3cU/ u74v0ouyUyiTUe1cgnMS7tHePcHedFu7IA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxKnBCNQ2WSAuzF64gFYmgTmO6cNJINjovhs75pp5tnh3z3AiSKGFi4sZ9XxvwnSJGIKisZ6Q== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f246:: with SMTP id b6mr3129567wrp.111.1603808105009; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (86-42-14-227-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [86.42.14.227]) by smtp.googlemail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id u202sm2280680wmu.23.2020.10.27.07.15.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Oct 2020 07:15:04 -0700 (PDT) References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 14:15:03 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:82.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/82.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) On 27/10/2020 02:19, Paul Eggert wrote: > One way to attack the problem is (1) use only one-liners for option help, and > (2) not worry about indentation so much (either in English or in German) as the > excess indenting doesn't help readability enough to justify the translation > hassle. To do that, I propose changes like the attached for comm. This will > cause 'comm --help' output to look like the following, which is good enough and > which will still work with help2man: > > Usage: comm [OPTION]... FILE1 FILE2 > Compare sorted files FILE1 and FILE2 line by line. > > When FILE1 or FILE2 (not both) is -, read standard input. > > With no options, produce three-column output. Column one contains > lines unique to FILE1, column two contains lines unique to FILE2, > and column three contains lines common to both files. > > -1 suppress column 1 (lines unique to FILE1) > -2 suppress column 2 (lines unique to FILE2) > -3 suppress column 3 (lines that appear in both files) > > --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted > --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted > --output-delimiter=STR separate columns with STR > --total output a summary > -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline > --help display this help and exit > --version output version information and exit > > Note, comparisons honor the rules specified by 'LC_COLLATE'. > > Examples: > comm -12 file1 file2 Print only lines present in both file1 and file2. > comm -3 file1 file2 Print lines in file1 not in file2, and vice versa. I feel using only one liners for all utils would lose too much information. I feel less strongly about removing indentation, though do feel we would lose reability. Consider `ls --help` for example. comm --help is already quite unreadable and so less affected by such changes. Also a mass change like this could invalidate existing translations, and cause too much churn. We did discuss a long time ago that a mass change to warrant the churn would be to split each option to a separate string, i.e. a separate translation. Also that we could take advantage of the mbsalign module to more dynamically align the option description. cheers, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.16039185432746 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.16039185432746 (code B ref 44248); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 20:56:01 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 20:55:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50895 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXsTv-0000iD-JX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 16:55:43 -0400 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.130]:53589) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mail@HIDDEN>) id 1kXsTu-0000i1-L7 for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 16:55:43 -0400 Received: from [10.0.2.16] ([90.187.64.173]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [213.165.67.97]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N4i3j-1kQHfv0Z1T-011m71; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:55:24 +0100 References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:55:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mzMFynStelJqZZJeTTQ355hNCg1tZzXA1Qr8YesXdEh4hdIODJx vzfkliPgea+GZ7d6RL9TIYFynNzisH3Iikpp84BsfXSBeRt3hVEUoBorMXcC30/l0ecuklV qEts8bZLnpOax/m9u5+1JS8K97+L+k8UpHAXBS1yJn7z0KgBGKvaAIdQq2JtprgvL58nCd6 KVCjEcJTekR5jY8mSqpPQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:vXm1D7jBjuY=:Kg2zDy33/YFObzM+io6bZA ihqQDsbJFM8hwHrUvCGuMA59Pj7L7GkCbt4n/fhqqa9kbufhENYQ9teZgZqCTpawOAOgkcwiQ wqjx48bNN7QHfk/TdL7CeO225tYdgtFWh+rHWqfeMV5qHQ5swGlLofej21HzSrOEroYSIj07W mw20XzM/pI7Eu0GY8H2idK1V1Ea9KNL44n3kgJsN4mRrRtpIC05xBA/j3Ud/Aq9ZVl48lGL12 AC7RupK8AyvGBxBXb8q8H21HQTXEaU41+/ofNYaE8nbD7xR9z0CbB5IqpBljGh+KApAWUwUMU iMwBfV6pGhKaxTZSZ2cODteNzOqCLGSsS8dKLOwibL84z2OTac/L8tOvxOfV5CEG2Pmxe20EB Eh5FBngmabm0zD4aEUF7aqpzSHwYB81FzphOz1w3/LY2wCbpyl+u+8kKLX8YsKyHWgbWWIZMb KybRyaFWCg== X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 10/27/20 3:15 PM, Pádraig Brady wrote: > On 27/10/2020 02:19, Paul Eggert wrote: >> One way to attack the problem is (1) use only one-liners for option help, and >> (2) not worry about indentation so much (either in English or in German) as the >> excess indenting doesn't help readability enough to justify the translation >> hassle. To do that, I propose changes like the attached for comm. This will >> cause 'comm --help' output to look like the following, which is good enough and >> which will still work with help2man: >> --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted >> --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted >> --output-delimiter=STR separate columns with STR >> --total output a summary >> -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline >> --help display this help and exit >> --version output version information and exit > I feel using only one liners for all utils would lose too much information. I think this "unaligned" output is hard to read, and we'd get a lot of either negative feedback or fixup patches. > Also a mass change like this could invalidate existing translations, > and cause too much churn. > > We did discuss a long time ago that a mass change > to warrant the churn would be to split each > option to a separate string, i.e. a separate translation. > Also that we could take advantage of the mbsalign module > to more dynamically align the option description. We have so many utils that it may be worth writing some utility functions to automatically do the alignment. Usually, that part of the usage output has 3 columns: a) the short option (if any), b) the long option (if any), c) the description (maybe multiline). E.g. for ls.c:usage: usage_param("-a", "--all", _("do not ignore entries starting with .")); ... usage_param(NULL, "--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir", _("follow each command line symbolic link\n" "that points to a directory")); usage_param_help(); usage_param_version(); and a final: usage_param_finish(); The usage_param calls would aggregate the text - suitable for translators -, and the final usage_param_finish() would then calculate the width of column a) and b), and the description text of column c) could be output directly ... possibly warning if any of the chunks until '\n' would grow excessively large. Could something like that be a possible way out of the mass change for the translators? Have a nice day, Berny
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.16039205445989 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.16039205445989 (code B ref 44248); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2020 21:29:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50937 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kXt0C-0001YX-1u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:29:04 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:38982) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1kXt09-0001Y3-N2 for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:29:02 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id d3so623991wma.4 for <44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:29:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=liUQ/gaioCfHKSaE6z69upvmjqk3Mz1mAzdbwuoZoT8=; b=RIQmGuJdCRLtTt0psKMJglJBuvqmB8oB9/kbLi8pdlXUyKIL/GHOrQtDX4vGLo6dIb /8zK4s33jpCNIQpfzEvLPmU60OfOrMF2sA8hr87UzzSkzWnocvc7XpLIbD+LpJTGDBUq eWYzqBTRBHs4ThQWahBEhA6+1A+OtBS/lpS3/p3JO85Bo4SYQx5VTcgn4cRb29TNFWIH R0QDF/AKOuT/IZC4ZE7dalMgxKriSEpiS5Osv0KWGOZHFiwuLpwoeACekKSLN8XroMCz ZzTjA0S4XpJTszJ3u/eAzV8TsTcUeNYIEU2fuh/j41KgvIF3OlnGybAb0cOFYRnZovB5 JTbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=liUQ/gaioCfHKSaE6z69upvmjqk3Mz1mAzdbwuoZoT8=; b=ReWivA661GbFpbTylmPH/CkkWVz57HfP8AC3m2OPW4rKKCpjWFdyvcU2dqcV1fWpuk I2qcF5Gre6sC/b+vzwW3C6ZD7SSl8KEffsjJMD6gvuP2JRrgKUPq/YeC+SdjBQfW7Txc VxaoEECyStzbIogI4sFd4Tfdzq2xL+SUkBvH7mOZlfksu4iTwGd/xAvDSZei3sbzG2I8 NOLkYg4YTAnQaJlMhSjCgdJ/JLvasWdx2DJFEUyM6rO7cRbzvJ92nQVapFlLcW1gGHT0 0yUyZ+jb4oKJKLSaRX5y3tBEYKYEvvIFUwDrI+4j5DIkSAVFgaBJGnEF1Z7V7UPn+1Gn 5Phw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532iOXi2jBqfe8Az5crWyCpK7E8SZsgfUgLBVWaBrt8rgi6EXVyg NOjJo/3QDkMqR8mg7RigrmAomVPe26n/mA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwFWfdLBKLv4/WlXdedvm2fTeESJYbhDriSuZDrGfDbx5cy1tDLAyv9j8cX0speNpfQcny7uA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:48d4:: with SMTP id v203mr845568wma.122.1603920535436; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (86-42-14-227-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [86.42.14.227]) by smtp.googlemail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id g144sm942641wmg.30.2020.10.28.14.28.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Oct 2020 14:28:54 -0700 (PDT) References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <25ea15ec-7ce2-10fa-400b-44ca09b6d21c@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 21:28:53 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:82.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/82.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On 28/10/2020 20:55, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > On 10/27/20 3:15 PM, Pádraig Brady wrote: >> On 27/10/2020 02:19, Paul Eggert wrote: >>> One way to attack the problem is (1) use only one-liners for option help, and >>> (2) not worry about indentation so much (either in English or in German) as the >>> excess indenting doesn't help readability enough to justify the translation >>> hassle. To do that, I propose changes like the attached for comm. This will >>> cause 'comm --help' output to look like the following, which is good enough and >>> which will still work with help2man: > >>> --check-order check that the input is correctly sorted >>> --nocheck-order do not check that the input is correctly sorted >>> --output-delimiter=STR separate columns with STR >>> --total output a summary >>> -z, --zero-terminated line delimiter is NUL, not newline >>> --help display this help and exit >>> --version output version information and exit > >> I feel using only one liners for all utils would lose too much information. > > I think this "unaligned" output is hard to read, and we'd get a lot > of either negative feedback or fixup patches. > >> Also a mass change like this could invalidate existing translations, >> and cause too much churn. >> >> We did discuss a long time ago that a mass change >> to warrant the churn would be to split each >> option to a separate string, i.e. a separate translation. >> Also that we could take advantage of the mbsalign module >> to more dynamically align the option description. > > We have so many utils that it may be worth writing some utility functions > to automatically do the alignment. Usually, that part of the usage output > has 3 columns: > a) the short option (if any), > b) the long option (if any), > c) the description (maybe multiline). > > E.g. for ls.c:usage: > usage_param("-a", "--all", _("do not ignore entries starting with .")); > ... > usage_param(NULL, "--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir", > _("follow each command line symbolic link\n" > "that points to a directory")); > usage_param_help(); > usage_param_version(); > and a final: > usage_param_finish(); > > The usage_param calls would aggregate the text - suitable for translators -, and > the final usage_param_finish() would then calculate the width of column a) and b), > and the description text of column c) could be output directly ... possibly warning > if any of the chunks until '\n' would grow excessively large. > > Could something like that be a possible way out of the mass change for the translators? Right that's what I was thinking with the alignment of the description. Having separate strings to translate, that don't have to deal with spacing or alignment etc. are generally easier to handle for translators (though there will be churn in the transition to this model). I'll have a go at this for the next release I think, as the next release will probably be a major version bump anyway, due to fundamental default changes to how cp (--reflink=auto) is handled for example. cheers, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 21:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.16040067617297 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.16040067617297 (code B ref 44248); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 21:27:01 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2020 21:26:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55125 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kYFQn-0001tV-8F for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:26:01 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:50863) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <roland.illig@HIDDEN>) id 1kYFQl-0001tD-GY for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:26:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1604006743; bh=2KReKmy+R8/Or9v1VCPnh1u9eLX1hhXcFcyokKrnd84=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=XY5cXnTqE2pO3nqlqJGD7e+ph9g3DBcbdUeBvXZzShbrWiwtc9wenWAYr7Swf0zmk 5JQvGovYB/MSJQP96uzAXuHpfKwK6YuHKbC2+P4S41yXVYc5bM+IUBCo07RNLntQZn DDMRkkAaZSMa7O0WKFUIucFt98PVGMxWhDqzWoCk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.63] ([84.46.13.132]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1My32L-1kAWVM13ip-00zTEe; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 22:25:43 +0100 References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> From: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <5db09264-c343-ae29-0a6e-79aafd947edf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 22:25:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:83.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/83.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:LoMlx/MOHq0gg66uOpcMkC1I5VIlRMiiJdcXTRuwIUDUp3hT3wH fWfUiD82HuSE8FO/JI80aWyAh1XtW8bJyN9MW+mUTpnf8wonQ7xxssHyvXKUtz0PHPVdqVv 9hLCpChXnDh1ju89KZ/1Ffjzrg0WWsgT6LXsz01tOQ6bQjCCuv8Zdnvtpzdz7MyDqIWhK0L RmEsedGtS6D33yS+KPTbw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:AnLXuACsT38=:GAoiMKZgOLBqQRVDcBivQq 6VL32mDfTi4NMvdbUWX1QkTt1pm/nC4toA+pwBR9iwqvKPU94jTOxNOGKmFonwxCi0lUG4GM0 GlPjpUD5gneX4tLFFHF+5EPd+0xNy7tCeGxWGIHpMJ+b0B4aLzt+hoOTEqbMkZKzCkCjY9ZXw C79rFAZDCIIvxkH0C/bb7Y/dRR67Dqn0LTXsKDKzOMuijgaYmedylqcGoJMIHP09gTwMCbVDe FTQvQm7JZqrhhZRvbkXUE7LroPqisUR4K1PPtGBOfveTORaJl84EdhVhZgJVck0nP1/sfYeuo 3PkcHu8lm+GGsWnIQxub4E0DX2yTWUq1R2vsIUEIBkY0cEMxc+lmoQRBUcwTgdWIPkmdMsjnc cF//PzFKEMUKUriOz54gRe/72zHUT7RAFYbFjrjmJ+V65q3n8WK0+9BcR5CydKUYOwmjlGgbi G8W91JywcxXJ4wtiU7zLRjbGRmLDAOHsAq3NZSK3E531RWoKNT/Dfv2R/fALXmj9tvrCRFOyG Qzt4m+OGda8j0KKTJX/omeKP2E3896ZfjaC42ONdlLEwVke6eb0zGGvVhB2SHEN4wjOfREtyF Y6pbjisYWVzEdT+kqq3HGUx3gjSQnxdBLecXkXKH8Cyaeg6sB6V6lGe3uc2JJpfqzETsLy0Yg wX/XXcYq4qYw4BGf5iRcelkkAbnVWCokW0ZOlqpGks1JEKGOxtrM3R9aF/mYHMBX7ScvTC3Zm Iij4SxBCrDc1tYW2dt0dOOm63dwdWTP0Wa5c5LEuLrN76SeGvufvaGyC6/ei4GmhdI+5P/2p+ G0csnPSU/wZR14kvLUb1P9xHHqErPLOeVTH736sg+UMSnc9vA5vYQ3QFpmzSkUQbAHfCuk3iI n/VLe99tJm7AyAJd1kNg== X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) On 28.10.2020 21:55, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > We have so many utils that it may be worth writing some utility function= s > to automatically do the alignment.=C2=A0 Usually, that part of the usage= output > has 3 columns: > a) the short option (if any), > b) the long option (if any), > c) the description (maybe multiline). I completely agree. This would be nice to have, both for users and for translators. > E.g. for ls.c:usage: > =C2=A0=C2=A0 usage_param("-a", "--all", _("do not ignore entries starti= ng with .")); > =C2=A0=C2=A0 ... > =C2=A0=C2=A0 usage_param(NULL, "--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-d= ir", > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _("follow each command= line symbolic link\n" > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "that poin= ts to a directory")); > =C2=A0 usage_param_help(); > =C2=A0 usage_param_version(); > and a final: > =C2=A0 usage_param_finish(); This code adds a bit of redundancy. The relation between -a and --all is already expressed when setting up the getopt_long. It is repeated here= . Ideally there would be a single definition from which both the getopt_long options and the --help string are derived. Some prior art can be found at https://golang.org/pkg/flag/. I don't like the hard line break in the option description. The line breaks should be computed based on the terminal size or a fixed line width. It's not possible to predict the screen column in which in the option description will start, since that depends on the names of the other options. Therefore, the option descriptions should be wrapped as necessary. See fold(1). Roland
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#44248: Indentation of --help and --version Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 21:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.44248.B44248.160400822217967 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 44248 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Roland Illig <roland.illig@HIDDEN>, Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 44248-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B44248.160400822217967 (code B ref 44248); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 21:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 44248) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2020 21:50:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55208 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kYFoL-0004fi-OZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:50:22 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f48.google.com ([209.85.128.48]:53914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1kYFoK-0004fT-Gn for 44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 17:50:20 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f48.google.com with SMTP id p22so1182147wmg.3 for <44248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i/J7nnXpfFpZPrtbhHrMt+FKb4GUxUZejVFemOaA/QA=; b=qHPORvGsB6sJx1vIEUlSz1dyBq0xOBGGRtk1d8oT+hO0QfI3AOZ/TRyAekr1Hrf6ec O5Bmzet+0ySF/pjn1LcNy/gdphMrK2wQ1MWqYZ0/9cjnI4n4XhwYMq0jRhGbfIdQnZjF GWQxg++o/QVdqnGLRHu/34eldILfKrHTykylyTPcmNv4ViWGekg1nXY4/sFOB0CuIT1W M8MzOeYxoshSxCQbM0yOHZSbURfroGCQisgaSIh+jhv+5yPhz0uWv7f3C47ywXSnRdaC Gtfd+Y5JJmlYAp2KQdengC8PrkqomKWskyJ59YwmGCS3Fe8rFMk4iJMB5npqh4BIDWz9 QTQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=i/J7nnXpfFpZPrtbhHrMt+FKb4GUxUZejVFemOaA/QA=; b=Q2fs1nV69By+tk+kPajjQFdlTjXv1dIVyuuZt0wnXgrOIOAUnQqVgOna8y9GmwCR2J DIpzbp9ZdsXae6SNWn1saJIHNo/IPCY26IrdEyJ2KZy61KUo55knth3iEQNnfDe1jC+y DP7x6kEGIFbFuDAvYgONsJUwA/cW3IrWyYNYRzc+glc8VQ4NeeTBOh6r+L6/BEqr43h3 9yRLXJY8CJjWaK0danoqQzKKKr1vcnR3dEi1GQh6lE14FWGBYGCfRyB1MNVN/Ea0KnJ8 2+Nlho36NZN1BAZzPFrDXbwekyI7Y0dSSI3mL9ESYgV9FuUflYeoxyE14f85SY2erg7q L5Bg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532P1B1RNPEbzCRtQ+z0zMhUC1BAYJ7bVAGTkNabY5E2xIT96MFq bviuIBscjH0sNZNERvYHXyizQiDoEHGRvA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzw/wu4q1CXO5kOn5qpGq12nIyL7qyKGOrGwmOBC/B9H9AQcEYn2xv6BwbEaVBI2IYnb8Y0Cw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:28b:: with SMTP id 11mr1387256wmk.144.1604008214403; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 14:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (86-42-14-227-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [86.42.14.227]) by smtp.googlemail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id a185sm1869573wmf.24.2020.10.29.14.50.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 14:50:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <9c1efb90-20a7-694b-fc21-0802c92e88c3@HIDDEN> <26c7da20-dcee-4971-8221-9c5b1dd15a8a@HIDDEN> <965b31eb-54b6-0f29-0419-1ef6e5d09707@HIDDEN> <bae303db-2d4d-c7a8-839d-54178fc320bf@HIDDEN> <5db09264-c343-ae29-0a6e-79aafd947edf@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <504b31fd-9a60-42c0-6476-e15042de0b1e@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 21:50:12 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:82.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/82.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5db09264-c343-ae29-0a6e-79aafd947edf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 29/10/2020 21:25, Roland Illig wrote: > On 28.10.2020 21:55, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >> We have so many utils that it may be worth writing some utility functions >> to automatically do the alignment. Usually, that part of the usage output >> has 3 columns: >> a) the short option (if any), >> b) the long option (if any), >> c) the description (maybe multiline). > > I completely agree. This would be nice to have, both for users and for > translators. > >> E.g. for ls.c:usage: >> usage_param("-a", "--all", _("do not ignore entries starting with .")); >> ... >> usage_param(NULL, "--dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir", >> _("follow each command line symbolic link\n" >> "that points to a directory")); >> usage_param_help(); >> usage_param_version(); >> and a final: >> usage_param_finish(); > > This code adds a bit of redundancy. The relation between -a and --all > is already expressed when setting up the getopt_long. It is repeated here. > > Ideally there would be a single definition from which both the > getopt_long options and the --help string are derived. Some prior art > can be found at https://golang.org/pkg/flag/. Maybe, though I don't want to over engineer anything here. We're not going to be adding new options that often. > I don't like the hard line break in the option description. The line > breaks should be computed based on the terminal size or a fixed line > width. It's not possible to predict the screen column in which in the > option description will start, since that depends on the names of the > other options. Therefore, the option descriptions should be wrapped as > necessary. See fold(1). Yes agreed. Spacing or alignment should not need consideration for translators. That includes line feeds. We probably should provide some context to translators also like: /* TRANSLATORS: --dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir option */ cheers, Pádraig
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