Received: (at 45098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Dec 2020 14:01:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 09 09:01:29 2020 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33109 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kn025-0002kG-47 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 09:01:29 -0500 Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:54001) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <bugs@HIDDEN>) id 1kn023-0002e2-8s for 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 09:01:28 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.31]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C000B.000000005FD0D8B0.000012B5; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 14:01:20 +0000 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:54:27 +0300 From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install package, it aborts the previous function invoked Message-ID: <X9Bmk8nzwcCiSoeg@HIDDEN> References: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN> <87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <X86UQIwporNwmy9p@HIDDEN> <jwv7dps5qkr.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <X8+T+sE5x5IgOabl@HIDDEN> <jwvv9db2754.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwvv9db2754.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-09 02:52]: > > Nagging user to install package does not tell to user that GNU ELPA > > exists even. > > The purpose is not to advertise the archive [...] Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.1 DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 Date: is 6 to 12 hours before Received: date -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45098 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-09 02:52]: > > Nagging user to install package does not tell to user that GNU ELPA > > exists even. > > The purpose is not to advertise the archive itself, but the features > provided by the packages it hosts. > > > - many users will not know what is this dialogue about. > > Yes, it's quite dry and deserves a fair bit of work to make it more > user-friendly. > > > - user will not know that package is supposed to come from Internet > > and those without Internet or in local network will be asked and > > then action cannot be performed. Do not assume that many people have > > Internet. GNU/Linux is installed on plethora of computers where > > students, professors, teachers use it without direct Internet. > > Make a check if Internet is available, then ask the user. > > Yes and no: Emacs shouldn't initiate a network connection without an > explicit request from the user, so we have to ask first. It means then probably this way: 1. First ask user if to engage recommending various packages from GNU ELPA. Program should also represent itself as being gnu-elpa package. Since I have installed it I did not yet activate it as by habit I may read package description later. But it activated itself and so how I would know which package is doing these functions? Without me remembering that I installed only that package I would now know what is doing it. User would not be able to turn it off oneself if there are many packages installed recently. 2. When confirmed, only then to start recommending packages and if not confirmed then to remember the choice and stop nagging.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
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> Nagging user to install package does not tell to user that GNU ELPA
> exists even.
The purpose is not to advertise the archive itself, but the features
provided by the packages it hosts.
> - many users will not know what is this dialogue about.
Yes, it's quite dry and deserves a fair bit of work to make it more
user-friendly.
> - user will not know that package is supposed to come from Internet
> and those without Internet or in local network will be asked and
> then action cannot be performed. Do not assume that many people have
> Internet. GNU/Linux is installed on plethora of computers where
> students, professors, teachers use it without direct Internet.
> Make a check if Internet is available, then ask the user.
Yes and no: Emacs shouldn't initiate a network connection without an
explicit request from the user, so we have to ask first.
But you're quite right that the question should be more explicit about
where the package will be fetched.
I'd welcome help with all this UI-side of the package.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
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Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08
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> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the > >>
corresponding
autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages [...]
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Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08 17:22]:
> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the > >> corresponding
autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages [...]
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* Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08 17:22]:
> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the
> >> corresponding autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages
> >> somewhere for future Emacs sessions (and also changing the question from
> >> "yes/no" to "yes/notnow/never").
> > I am just worried that if that package becomes enabled by default in
> > future Emacs that it will be nagging users who just wish to edit and
> > not access Internet. It should be rather option that user enables to
> > be asked just as it is common to enable packages.
>
> Hmm... indeed you're right. It *is* worth the trouble if we want to
> enable it by default.
>
> > Is asking users to enable or load or install various packages the sole
> > purpose of gnu-elpa package?
>
> Yes and no: it's not the "purpose" but it's the way it reaches its
> purpose. Its purpose is to integrate GNU ELPA more closely into Emacs,
> and generally promote GNU ELPA packages.
Nagging user to install package does not tell to user that GNU ELPA
exists even. Think of new user who installs Emacs to do some SQL
editing and is then asked to install sql-indent. I am using PostgreSQL
maybe 20 years, I do not remember, and I never used that package
neither I need it, and I did not know about it. So in that sense it
did work for me, it promoted package to me.
For new users it is good to think how to offer them GNU ELPA packages,
please put yourself in their mind or look from their view point.
- many users will not know what is this dialogue about.
- user will not know what is this package about, there is no title or
description. To really promote GNU ELPA it would be good to tell
about it. Add the third button "Find more about GNU ELPA" that maybe
leads to Emacs manual.
- user will not know that package is supposed to come from Internet
and those without Internet or in local network will be asked and
then action cannot be performed. Do not assume that many people have
Internet. GNU/Linux is installed on plethora of computers where
students, professors, teachers use it without direct Internet.
Make a check if Internet is available, then ask the user.
- gnu-elpa package could also make one question such as: "May I inform
you from time to time about Emacs?" -- then if user says YES there,
it could run automatically and from time to time inform user about
tips on how to use Emacs or tips how to use GNU ELPA. People could
contribute to those tips to be shown randomly or semantically in the
context of what user is doing. Emacs has doctor built-in but not an
artificial intelligence to guide the user. Why not that way.
- additionally I hope that dialogue works in console too, as I did not
check it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2020 17:55:54 +0300
From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
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Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08
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> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the > >>
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Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08 17:22]:
> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the > >> corresponding
autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages [...]
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* Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-08 17:22]:
> >> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the
> >> corresponding autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages
> >> somewhere for future Emacs sessions (and also changing the question from
> >> "yes/no" to "yes/notnow/never").
> > I am just worried that if that package becomes enabled by default in
> > future Emacs that it will be nagging users who just wish to edit and
> > not access Internet. It should be rather option that user enables to
> > be asked just as it is common to enable packages.
>
> Hmm... indeed you're right. It *is* worth the trouble if we want to
> enable it by default.
>
> > Is asking users to enable or load or install various packages the sole
> > purpose of gnu-elpa package?
>
> Yes and no: it's not the "purpose" but it's the way it reaches its
> purpose. Its purpose is to integrate GNU ELPA more closely into Emacs,
> and generally promote GNU ELPA packages.
Nagging user to install package does not tell to user that GNU ELPA
exists even. Think of new user who installs Emacs to do some SQL
editing and is then asked to install sql-indent. I am using PostgreSQL
maybe 20 years, I do not remember, and I never used that package
neither I need it, and I did not know about it. So in that sense it
did work for me, it promoted package to me.
For new users it is good to think how to offer them GNU ELPA packages,
please put yourself in their mind or look from their view point.
- many users will not know what is this dialogue about.
- user will not know what is this package about, there is no title or
description. To really promote GNU ELPA it would be good to tell
about it. Add the third button "Find more about GNU ELPA" that maybe
leads to Emacs manual.
- user will not know that package is supposed to come from Internet
and those without Internet or in local network will be asked and
then action cannot be performed. Do not assume that many people have
Internet. GNU/Linux is installed on plethora of computers where
students, professors, teachers use it without direct Internet.
Make a check if Internet is available, then ask the user.
- gnu-elpa package could also make one question such as: "May I inform
you from time to time about Emacs?" -- then if user says YES there,
it could run automatically and from time to time inform user about
tips on how to use Emacs or tips how to use GNU ELPA. People could
contribute to those tips to be shown randomly or semantically in the
context of what user is doing. Emacs has doctor built-in but not an
artificial intelligence to guide the user. Why not that way.
- additionally I hope that dialogue works in console too, as I did not
check it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 45098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2020 14:24:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 08 09:24:44 2020 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57041 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kmdv1-0000Ir-V9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:24:44 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:51086) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmduz-0000Id-DO for 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:24:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=O1Rdrw4eZ/4hqcSEELpfVrpjGfqb3r7j9tIh2TVeH/4=; b=NZy642YLnfJC4enIG2r0BVxovu S6m4RMnljytkeZOkqlotecI7JzZPNbVzfx0NfoZPriqt+sUiYrrRCb1SKIzvHO4mbdAIYIn4zPyh+ v0qtPaKWmf61t0xwtyV7CNEVGUyKDN8eWw1aN9ejIpIEEPOnEWu4KZ9ywbp7z3eiOhgY=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmduh-0002uY-JR; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:24:29 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install package, it aborts the previous function invoked References: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN> <87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h7owjsh2.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1rg05qfn.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXj4uGDfXssJiX/ //+CxMBKAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+QMCA4QLUTGVfQAAAGYSURBVCjPNdGxbtswEAbg n0RF1JoyxEHMqSiMItVTMEOGetLgBKimDmkR6SnoAPWsFLaBalILyhDvKfuTSTVI/HQ63h0Fde8A vEO+tuprzcdFhppVTLFehRsg6pBe1sV6BXQmpEh9ubZAdZvx7eKGsLuMD/UTYcKctlvvQ8PtJJ4m YCkvAzcQkaaHjXpAw7XczVjURDBRZCKgBd4yMkWUTp+w4/os0ltnThhiJ3wxZ3x33cSijfjymR28 jtI5+5zuGdVtl+DvE65V1wPSX2YU1Y6tjfkAVltCs44nipqfmcCKKeKJ8o8cRwas69jTWdwjqx05 C0pp3BPw6aDkL8rZ+hb4GLSMsKP1n4GH0UiA+MqzvfZRJRw6b52a2M6MVJNTHgh5Q1m/V02GK5m3 UE2E/BZnfOsL1eQcZ/rJGbV5hX75hf+APu9xdbdhjsxQ8Qeufm5aIvC/PmC5LxNGGFmgONoOac5O vqCIqwpydOacEAieoR3igmdxTXDkYTZYJMgW5pSRcoTDBO2Wc4ZX0wiv4htYqtbtqv0HBrquumZD GF8AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjAtMTItMDhUMTQ6MTY6NDUrMDA6MDApCMEwAAAAJXRF WHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIwLTEyLTA4VDE0OjE2OjQ1KzAwOjAwWFV5jAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Rian Treanor's _File Under UK Metaplasm_: "Mirror Instant" Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:24:22 +0100 In-Reply-To: <jwv1rg05qfn.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:22:18 -0500") Message-ID: <87y2i8idex.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > You're thinking `ignore`, I suspect, and yes that's what I referred to > with "a dummy version of the function which does nothing". Oh, OK. But isn't that worth the trouble? I'm assuming Emacs is going to get a ton of these functions that (possibly) hook into GNU ELPA. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45098 Cc: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>, 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > You're thinking `ignore`, I suspect, and yes that's what I referred to > with "a dummy version of the function which does nothing". Oh, OK. But isn't that worth the trouble? I'm assuming Emacs is going to get a ton of these functions that (possibly) hook into GNU ELPA. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
Message-ID: <jwv1rg05qfn.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN>
<87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<87h7owjsh2.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:22:18 -0500
In-Reply-To: <87h7owjsh2.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue,
08 Dec 2020 15:13:45 +0100")
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>> Problem (2) is largely unsolvable on `gnu-elpa`s side.
>> Basically, the code in `sql-indent-enable` in sql.el does:
>>
>> (when (fboundp 'sqlind-minor-mode)
>> (sqlind-minor-mode (if sql-use-indent-support +1 -1)))
>>
>> With `gnu-elpa` installed, `sqlind-minor-mode` is defined (as an
>> autoloaded function), so we call it which in turns loads `gnu-elpa.el`,
>> but from there we can't "uncall" the function. We could signal
>> a different error than "Abort", and then change the call so it just
>> ignores such errors, or we could have a special hack in `gnu-elpa` for
>> `sqlind-minor-mode` such that when the user decides not to
>> install the package we install a dummy version of the function which
>> does nothing (and then undefines the function), but I'm not sure it's
>> worth the trouble.
>
> Couldn't gnu-elpa just make sqlind-minor-mode into `indentity' (or
> something similar) in these cases?
You're thinking `ignore`, I suspect, and yes that's what I referred to
with "a dummy version of the function which does nothing".
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
Message-ID: <jwv7dps5qkr.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
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<87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:21:23 -0500
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>> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the
>> corresponding autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages
>> somewhere for future Emacs sessions (and also changing the question from
>> "yes/no" to "yes/notnow/never").
> I am just worried that if that package becomes enabled by default in
> future Emacs that it will be nagging users who just wish to edit and
> not access Internet. It should be rather option that user enables to
> be asked just as it is common to enable packages.
Hmm... indeed you're right. It *is* worth the trouble if we want to
enable it by default.
> Is asking users to enable or load or install various packages the sole
> purpose of gnu-elpa package?
Yes and no: it's not the "purpose" but it's the way it reaches its
purpose. Its purpose is to integrate GNU ELPA more closely into Emacs,
and generally promote GNU ELPA packages.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 45098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2020 14:14:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 08 09:14:01 2020 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kmdkf-0008RN-Cr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:14:01 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50832) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmdkc-0008RA-Tt for 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 09:13:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HzDdeQk6fI+lwiyQni585aChzHaMkAfGQ4gu0sEG40s=; b=sSoGuSlQY+f3yTg0aBPMaGc+d5 lufMoWcEOWFhnAKiySA5KvN/4CD2I5dUE4GFuYSgf8BOkIYb6E/m7yPdD0U21qdQTFlnWWvQBOTZ7 e9dFH5yVJ/31SZyUzZM9aZiUz5TNCUVOuYhsu54/ow2iLd/+Gwc1t4CjHzyagrJHfypo=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmdkQ-0002nr-8Z; Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:13:52 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install package, it aborts the previous function invoked References: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN> <87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Act 4's _Circuit City_: "No More Wires" Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2020 15:13:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <jwvr1o174oa.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 07 Dec 2020 15:33:07 -0500") Message-ID: <87h7owjsh2.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > Problem (2) is largely unsolvable on `gnu-elpa`s side. > Basically, the code in `sql-indent-enable` in sql.el does: > > (when (fboundp 'sqlind-minor-mode) > (sqlind-minor-mode (if sql-use-indent-sup [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45098 Cc: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>, 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > Problem (2) is largely unsolvable on `gnu-elpa`s side. > Basically, the code in `sql-indent-enable` in sql.el does: > > (when (fboundp 'sqlind-minor-mode) > (sqlind-minor-mode (if sql-use-indent-support +1 -1))) > > With `gnu-elpa` installed, `sqlind-minor-mode` is defined (as an > autoloaded function), so we call it which in turns loads `gnu-elpa.el`, > but from there we can't "uncall" the function. We could signal > a different error than "Abort", and then change the call so it just > ignores such errors, or we could have a special hack in `gnu-elpa` for > `sqlind-minor-mode` such that when the user decides not to > install the package we install a dummy version of the function which > does nothing (and then undefines the function), but I'm not sure it's > worth the trouble. Couldn't gnu-elpa just make sqlind-minor-mode into `indentity' (or something similar) in these cases? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
package, it aborts the previous function invoked
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Content preview: * Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-07
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> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the > corresponding
autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages > some [...]
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* Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> [2020-12-07 23:33]:
> Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the
> corresponding autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages
> somewhere for future Emacs sessions (and also changing the question from
> "yes/no" to "yes/notnow/never").
I am just worried that if that package becomes enabled by default in
future Emacs that it will be nagging users who just wish to edit and
not access Internet. It should be rather option that user enables to
be asked just as it is common to enable packages.
Is asking users to enable or load or install various packages the sole
purpose of gnu-elpa package?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install
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>> I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa package
>> installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying
>> no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-postgres
>> mode. To reach it I have to invoke M-x sql-postgres second time
>
> I can confirm this problem. I had a peek at gnu-elpa, but decoding the
> control flow was beyond what I could do in 30 seconds. Stefan?
I think there are 2 problems:
1 - when the user says "no" to installing `sql-indent`, `gnu-elpa`
doesn't try to remember this fact, so it will happily ask the user
again and again.
2 - when the user says "no" to installing `sql-indent`, `gnu-elpa`
doesn't "keep going" but instead it "aborts" (i.e. by signaling an
error).
Problem (1) should be reasonably easy to fix by removing the
corresponding autoload and storing the list of unwanted packages
somewhere for future Emacs sessions (and also changing the question from
"yes/no" to "yes/notnow/never").
Problem (2) is largely unsolvable on `gnu-elpa`s side.
Basically, the code in `sql-indent-enable` in sql.el does:
(when (fboundp 'sqlind-minor-mode)
(sqlind-minor-mode (if sql-use-indent-support +1 -1)))
With `gnu-elpa` installed, `sqlind-minor-mode` is defined (as an
autoloaded function), so we call it which in turns loads `gnu-elpa.el`,
but from there we can't "uncall" the function. We could signal
a different error than "Abort", and then change the call so it just
ignores such errors, or we could have a special hack in `gnu-elpa` for
`sqlind-minor-mode` such that when the user decides not to
install the package we install a dummy version of the function which
does nothing (and then undefines the function), but I'm not sure it's
worth the trouble.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 45098) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2020 15:55:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 07 10:55:51 2020 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1kmIrf-0006jM-E3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:55:51 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38600) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmIra-0006j2-B4 for 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:55:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=oMgkULoZP69MJgl/mz/K5c9wXxplohPAr9WQZxfzw2g=; b=BEta8ZxcAAvpOBoaVw5zWXhaSR MFfxxNMN+OmukeKpCm18kLliwfL6ICxR2nGvvcJRarQ5Y+nTdTXTPw0QWQdnjHq6uD7Za2xLixRyj eAWklavthUr9IPtFAx0mfrNtR97HugUcYETwHtti9K0hHMvYqRCKh9lYzVPDSgO6Z4NA=; Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1kmIrQ-0007Gl-IZ; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 16:55:39 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#45098: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install package, it aborts the previous function invoked References: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Alva Noto's _Xerrox Vol. 04_: "Xerrox =?utf-8?Q?=C3=8Ele=22?= Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 16:55:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: <courier.000000005FCE04DF.00000E4E@HIDDEN> (Jean Louis's message of "Mon, 07 Dec 2020 13:33:01 +0300") Message-ID: <87zh2pfw5k.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> writes: > I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa package > installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying > no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-po [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 45098 Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, 45098 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN> writes: > I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa package > installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying > no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-postgres > mode. To reach it I have to invoke M-x sql-postgres second time I can confirm this problem. I had a peek at gnu-elpa, but decoding the control flow was beyond what I could do in 30 seconds. Stefan? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 13:33:01 +0300
From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 28.0.50; gnu-elpa: if user says `no' to install package, it aborts the
previous function invoked
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Content preview: I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa
package installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying
no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-postgres [...]
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Content preview: I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa
package installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying
no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-postgres [...]
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I am using M-x sql-postgres and when invoked with gnu-elpa package
installed it asks me to install sql-indent, but I say no and on saying
no it aborts my action and I cannot even reach to sql-postgres
mode. To reach it I have to invoke M-x sql-postgres second time
In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.14.8, Xaw3d scroll bars)
of 2020-11-25 built on protected.rcdrun.com
Repository revision: 30c437752df0a3a9410f1249fa0f237110811af2
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11907000
System Description: Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre
Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/package/text/emacs --with-modules
--with-x-toolkit=lucid'
Configured features:
XAW3D XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB
NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF
ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS LUCID X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS JSON
PDUMPER LCMS2
Important settings:
value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8
value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=exwm-xim
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: ELisp/d
Minor modes in effect:
TeX-PDF-mode: t
jabber-activity-mode: t
hpath:find-file-urls-mode: t
timeclock-mode-line-display: t
show-paren-mode: t
savehist-mode: t
save-place-mode: t
immortal-scratch-mode: t
electric-pair-mode: t
display-time-mode: t
display-battery-mode: t
helm-ff-cache-mode: t
shell-dirtrack-mode: t
async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
persistent-scratch-autosave-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
eldoc-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
column-number-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
--
Thanks,
Jean Louis
⎔ λ 🄯 𝍄 𝌡 𝌚
Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#45098; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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