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Subject: bug#45924: RFE: rmdir -r: recursively remove [empty] directories under the target.
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Every once in a while, I want to remove what I believe to be
an empty directory tree, safely.

I wondered, why not have rmdir have a recursive option
that would remove all directories under a given directory,
presuming they were empty.  That way I can try to remove
the tree, removing what it can, and only failing if it
ran into a file that prevented the removal.

I'd _at least_, have it do a depth-first removal and halt
with a ENOTEMPTY status if an rmdir failed to remove a
directory due to it not being empty.

So for dirs one,two,three + file dir 'two' next to three:

one-+two-+three
         |-file

rmdir -r one  would first remove
one/two/three,
then fail removing one/two because 'two wasn't empty'.

--- probably, I think adding a mode like "--failearly"
should also be available to have rmdir fail on the recursive
descent if it encountered non-dir while descending.

Yes, you could do it some other way, like by using 'find',
but since it is about removing directories, having the option
under rmdir would seem a natural place to put it.

Useful?

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To: L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#45924: Acknowledgement (RFE: rmdir -r: recursively remove
 [empty] directories under the target.)
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Subject: bug#45924: RFE: rmdir -r: recursively remove [empty] directories under the target.
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On 1/16/21 4:29 PM, L A Walsh wrote:
> Yes, you could do it some other way, like by using 'find'

That's what I'd do, yes. 'find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +'. I=20
doubt whether it's worth hacking on this at the C level (complicating=20
the documentation too) when there's such a simple and portable way to do=20
this unusual task already.

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Subject: bug#45924: RFE: rmdir -r: recursively remove [empty] directories under the target.
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Except that 'find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +'
is anything but simple and not something anyone outside of
a minority of *nix users would have a clue about how to 
create, whereas 'rmdir -r DIR' is both direct and simple and
more easily understandable by those who know how to remove
a directory and recursively remove files. Applying the -r
option of 'rm' and 'rd's focus on dirs seems a natural 
combination.

Gnu authors seem to pride themselves on their technical and
programming expertise (and not necessarily, w/o reason); but like
many high-level engineers, seem to lose touch with the concept of
'user-friendly' and often, it seems, tend toward the idea that the
users can and should adapt to the program(s) for the sake of
the programs (and engineers).  This is in contrast to the idea
of computers (and programs) being designed as tools to aid, assist,
simplify and empower those who use such tools.

On 2021/01/17 14:18, Paul Eggert wrote:
> On 1/16/21 4:29 PM, L A Walsh wrote:
>> Yes, you could do it some other way, like by using 'find'
> 
> That's what I'd do, yes. 'find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +'. I 
> doubt whether it's worth hacking on this at the C level (complicating 
> the documentation too) when there's such a simple and portable way to do 
> this unusual task already.

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Subject: bug#45924: RFE: rmdir -r: recursively remove [empty] directories under the target.
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On 1/17/21 11:18 PM, Paul Eggert wrote:
> find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +

find(1) can also find empty directories and delete them:

  $ find DIR -type d -empty -delete

FWIW: -delete implies -depth.

If one wants to see what empty directories have been found (and get deleted),
just put a -print in there:

  $ find DIR -type d -empty -print -delete

The above works with GNU find (as both -empty and -delete are GNU extensions).

Have a nice day,
Berny

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On 2021/01/18 08:08, Bernhard Voelker wrote:

> find(1) can also ... [various examples of find's usefulness elided]
> Have a nice day,
> Berny
=3D=3D=3D
	As I stated in the original message:

On 2021/01/16 16:29, L A Walsh wrote:
> Yes, you could do it some other way, like by using 'find',
> but since it is about removing directories, having the option
> under rmdir would seem a natural place to put it.

Thank you Bernhard, but numerous ways to do it with find don't=20
really have the simplicity, of using "remove dir" for its
"raison d'=C3=AAtre":

  rmdir -r DIR

  vs. find:

  find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +


One could also use find to implement recursive file removal instead of
using 'rm', but that's hardly simple or straightforward as "rm -r"
either.

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Am 18.01.21 um 11:53 schrieb L A Walsh:
> Except that 'find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +'
> is anything but simple and not something anyone outside of
> a minority of *nix users would have a clue about how to create, whereas 'rmdir -r DIR' is both direct and simple and
> more easily understandable by those who know how to remove
> a directory and recursively remove files. Applying the -r
> option of 'rm' and 'rd's focus on dirs seems a natural combination.

+1

Ulf

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On 18/01/2021 20:15, L A Walsh wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2021/01/18 08:08, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
> 
>> find(1) can also ... [various examples of find's usefulness elided]
>> Have a nice day,
>> Berny
> ===
> 	As I stated in the original message:
> 
> On 2021/01/16 16:29, L A Walsh wrote:
>> Yes, you could do it some other way, like by using 'find',
>> but since it is about removing directories, having the option
>> under rmdir would seem a natural place to put it.
> 
> Thank you Bernhard, but numerous ways to do it with find don't
> really have the simplicity, of using "remove dir" for its
> "raison d'être":
> 
>    rmdir -r DIR
> 
>    vs. find:
> 
>    find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +
> 
> 
> One could also use find to implement recursive file removal instead of
> using 'rm', but that's hardly simple or straightforward as "rm -r"
> either.

`rmdir -r` does have some merit.
However the key thing here is it's an unusual operation.
Also there is a way to achieve it with a single existing command.
Comparing with `rm -r` is not equivalent as that's a vastly more common operation.
Also that has overlaps with other functionality like prompting etc.

So I'd be 70:30 against adding `rmdir -r`

cheers,
Pádraig

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On 1/18/21 2:53 AM, L A Walsh wrote:
> Except that 'find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +'
> is anything but simple and not something anyone outside of
> a minority of *nix users would have a clue about how to create, whereas=
=20
> 'rmdir -r DIR' is both direct and simple and
> more easily understandable

It's not that simple. For example, it's not clear whether rmdir -r=20
should also remove directories containing only empty subdirectories,=20
which is what you asked for. Perhaps some people would want that,=20
perhaps they'd want to remove just empty leaf directories. Or perhaps=20
they'd want rmdir to remove empty subdirectories only if it has=20
permission to do so. Or maybe they'd want to also remove subdirectories=20
whose directory entries are all hidden (start with '.'). Or there are=20
lots of other possible things people could plausibly want.

This is what 'find' is for. If people needed to do something like "rmdir=20
-r" every day then it'd be plausible to add it even though there's a=20
simple substitute. But people don't, so let's stick with what we have.

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On 1/18/21 8:08 AM, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
> On 1/17/21 11:18 PM, Paul Eggert wrote:
>> find DIR -depth -type d -exec rmdir {} +
> 
> find(1) can also find empty directories and delete them:
> 
>    $ find DIR -type d -empty -delete

Thanks, I'd forgotten about that.

I added the attached to the manual, as the point seems worth documenting 
even if we don't change the code.

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From eebed78799a7996dd80b66c493a0fc199705dea3 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 21:08:39 -0800
Subject: [PATCH] doc: rmdir --recursive substitutes

* doc/coreutils.texi (rmdir invocation): Add note on how to remove
empty subdirectories recursively.
---
 doc/coreutils.texi | 14 +++++++++++++-
 1 file changed, 13 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/doc/coreutils.texi b/doc/coreutils.texi
index fe2fc52b7..94c9fbfa5 100644
--- a/doc/coreutils.texi
+++ b/doc/coreutils.texi
@@ -11006,7 +11006,19 @@ Give a diagnostic for each successful removal.
 
 @end table
 
-@xref{rm invocation}, for how to remove non-empty directories (recursively).
+@xref{rm invocation}, for how to remove non-empty directories recursively.
+
+To remove all empty directories under @var{dirname}, including
+directories that become empty because other directories are removed,
+you can use either of the following commands:
+
+@example
+# This uses GNU extensions.
+find @var{dirname} -type d -empty -delete
+
+# This runs on any POSIX platform.
+find @var{dirname} -depth -type d -exec rmdir @{@} +
+@end example
 
 @exitstatus
 
-- 
2.27.0


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tags 47085 notabug
close 47085
close 47014
severity 46346 wishlist
severity 46169 wishlist
severity 45924 wishlist
tags 45700 notabug
close 45700

Last modified: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 10:15:01 UTC

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