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Subject: [bug#46215] [PATCH] Add yadm
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---
 gnu/packages/package-management.scm | 32 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 32 insertions(+)

diff --git a/gnu/packages/package-management.scm b/gnu/packages/package-management.scm
index 98af2187fa..845098aa10 100644
--- a/gnu/packages/package-management.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/package-management.scm
@@ -1479,3 +1479,35 @@ It is mainly meant for programmers who develop portable programs or libraries in
 but could potentially work for end-users of those programs.  It also has a translator
 from R7RS, which allows most R7RS code to run on R6RS implementations.")
     (license license:gpl3+)))
+
+(define-public yadm
+  (package
+    (name "yadm")
+    (version "3.0.2")
+    (source (origin
+              (method git-fetch)
+              (uri (git-reference
+                    (url "https://github.com/TheLocehiliosan/yadm")
+                    (commit version)))
+              (file-name (git-file-name name version))
+              (sha256 (base32 "18lqy8hm1y1hkzmjpiwn1i29yk2hg7mrvyi0x5imvfxz3j4jj2qa"))))
+    (build-system gnu-build-system)
+    (arguments
+     '(#:tests? #f
+       #:make-flags (list (string-append "PREFIX=" (assoc-ref %outputs "out")))
+       #:phases
+       (modify-phases %standard-phases
+         (delete 'bootstrap)
+         (delete 'configure)
+         (delete 'build))))
+    (synopsis "Yet Another Dotfile Manager")
+    (home-page "https://yadm.io")
+    (description "When you live in a command line, configurations are a deeply
+personal thing. They are often crafted over years of experience, battles lost,
+lessons learned, advice followed, and ingenuity rewarded. When you are away
+from your own configurations, you are an orphaned refugee in unfamiliar and
+hostile surroundings. You feel clumsy and out of sorts. You are filled with a
+sense of longing to be back in a place you know. A place you built. A place
+where all the short-cuts have been worn bare by your own travels. A place you
+proudly call… $HOME.")
+    (license license:gpl3)))
-- 
2.30.0

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Ellis Kenyo <me@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#46215: Acknowledgement ([PATCH] Add yadm)
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Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 16:48:02 +0000

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46215: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D46215
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Subject: [bug#46215] [PATCH] Add yadm
Resent-From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>
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From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 18:38:02 +0100
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Hello Ellis,

Am Sonntag, den 31.01.2021, 16:47 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyo:
> ---
>  gnu/packages/package-management.scm | 32
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 32 insertions(+)
Your commit is missing a ChangeLog in its message.

> [...]
> +    (build-system gnu-build-system)
> +    (arguments
> +     '(#:tests? #f
Document why (i.e. "no check target").

> +       #:make-flags (list (string-append "PREFIX=" (assoc-ref
> %outputs "out")))
> +       #:phases
> +       (modify-phases %standard-phases
> +         (delete 'bootstrap)
> +         (delete 'configure)
> +         (delete 'build))))
yadm has a few things you need to patch.  For one, its shebang is
/bin/sh despite requiring bash.  Also it contains a large number of
_PROGRAM variables, which would be need to be replaced by their actual
store path (use the which procedure for that).

> +    (description "When you live in a command line, configurations
> are a deeply
> +personal thing. They are often crafted over years of experience,
> battles lost,
> +lessons learned, advice followed, and ingenuity rewarded. When you
> are away
> +from your own configurations, you are an orphaned refugee in
> unfamiliar and
> +hostile surroundings. You feel clumsy and out of sorts. You are
> filled with a
> +sense of longing to be back in a place you know. A place you built.
> A place
> +where all the short-cuts have been worn bare by your own travels. A
> place you
> +proudly call… $HOME.")
Nice advertisement, but not really a description.  yadm.1 has a better
one, but keep to the formatting in Guix (particularly double spaces
after sentence end).

> +    (license license:gpl3)))
Should be gpl3+.

Regards,
Leo

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Subject: [bug#46215] [PATCH] Add yadm
Resent-From: Ellis =?UTF-8?Q?Keny=C5=91?= <me@HIDDEN>
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 <84ab5054792abeb5e9b85d21229cd7182204d817.camel@HIDDEN>
From: Ellis =?UTF-8?Q?Keny=C5=91?= <me@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 20:16:32 +0000
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Hi Leo,

Thanks for the feedback.

> Your commit is missing a ChangeLog in its message.
This will be added with the next patch.

> Document why (i.e. "no check target").
I have also added similar comments for the other removed stages.

> yadm has a few things you need to patch.  For one, its shebang=20
> is
> /bin/sh despite requiring bash.  Also it contains a large number=20
> of
> _PROGRAM variables, which would be need to be replaced by their=20
> actual
> store path (use the which procedure for that).

Patch them to be the $(which <exe>) expression or evaluate that?
If the latter, I'm not sure how that would handle installing deps
retroactively.

> Nice advertisement, but not really a description.  yadm.1 has a=20
> better
> one, but keep to the formatting in Guix (particularly double=20
> spaces
> after sentence end).
I was looking for an accurate description on the site, I have=20
replaced
with that and the linter passes.

> Should be gpl3+.
This will also be added to the next patch.

Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello Ellis,
>
> Am Sonntag, den 31.01.2021, 16:47 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyo:
>> ---
>>  gnu/packages/package-management.scm | 32
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>  1 file changed, 32 insertions(+)
> Your commit is missing a ChangeLog in its message.
>
>> [...]
>> +    (build-system gnu-build-system)
>> +    (arguments
>> +     '(#:tests? #f
> Document why (i.e. "no check target").
>
>> +       #:make-flags (list (string-append "PREFIX=3D" (assoc-ref
>> %outputs "out")))
>> +       #:phases
>> +       (modify-phases %standard-phases
>> +         (delete 'bootstrap)
>> +         (delete 'configure)
>> +         (delete 'build))))
> yadm has a few things you need to patch.  For one, its shebang=20
> is
> /bin/sh despite requiring bash.  Also it contains a large number=20
> of
> _PROGRAM variables, which would be need to be replaced by their=20
> actual
> store path (use the which procedure for that).
>
>> +    (description "When you live in a command line,=20
>> configurations
>> are a deeply
>> +personal thing. They are often crafted over years of=20
>> experience,
>> battles lost,
>> +lessons learned, advice followed, and ingenuity rewarded. When=20
>> you
>> are away
>> +from your own configurations, you are an orphaned refugee in
>> unfamiliar and
>> +hostile surroundings. You feel clumsy and out of sorts. You=20
>> are
>> filled with a
>> +sense of longing to be back in a place you know. A place you=20
>> built.
>> A place
>> +where all the short-cuts have been worn bare by your own=20
>> travels. A
>> place you
>> +proudly call=E2=80=A6 $HOME.")
> Nice advertisement, but not really a description.  yadm.1 has a=20
> better
> one, but keep to the formatting in Guix (particularly double=20
> spaces
> after sentence end).
>
>> +    (license license:gpl3)))
> Should be gpl3+.
>
> Regards,
> Leo


--=20
---
elken

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Hi Ellen,

Am Sonntag, den 31.01.2021, 20:16 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyő:
> Hi Leo,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> > Your commit is missing a ChangeLog in its message.
> This will be added with the next patch.
> 
> > Document why (i.e. "no check target").
> I have also added similar comments for the other removed stages.
That's not as important, gnu-build-system is often used as base for
packages and build system, that don't actually have configure.  For
disabled tests, however, it is not clear without comment whether they
fail or whether they simply don't exist.

> > yadm has a few things you need to patch.  For one, its shebang 
> > is
> > /bin/sh despite requiring bash.  Also it contains a large number 
> > of
> > _PROGRAM variables, which would be need to be replaced by their 
> > actual
> > store path (use the which procedure for that).
> 
> Patch them to be the $(which <exe>) expression or evaluate that?
> If the latter, I'm not sure how that would handle installing deps
> retroactively.
You'd add the packages, that define those programs as inputs, then
you do something along the lines of

  (substitute* "yadm" 
    (("(.*)_PROGRAM=\"(.*)\"" all var prog)
     (format #f "~a_PROGRAM=~s" var (which prog))))

inside some phase after unpack.
Please apologize if the snippet above doesn't actually work for your
case, I haven't tried it.

By the way, git format-patch seems to swallow the Umlaut (or however
it's called in your language) in your surname.  If you want it to be
that way, then fair enough, just know that there's no policy
prohibiting UTF-8 in committer names.

Regards,
Leo

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Hi Leo,

I understand what to do, I just wasn't sure how dependencies insta=
lled later would be handled=2E Some are optional and if they don't exist ya=
dm just carries on, but some are required=2E

Would the optional ones still=
 be handled? 

On 31 Jan 2021, 20:36, at 20:36, Leo Prikler <leo=2Eprikler@=
student=2Etugraz=2Eat> wrote:
>Hi Ellen,
>
>Am Sonntag, den 31=2E01=2E2021,=
 20:16 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:
>> Hi Leo,
>> 
>> Thanks for the fee=
dback=2E
>> 
>> > Your commit is missing a ChangeLog in its message=2E
>> T=
his will be added with the next patch=2E
>> 
>> > Document why (i=2Ee=2E "n=
o check target")=2E
>> I have also added similar comments for the other rem=
oved stages=2E
>That's not as important, gnu-build-system is often used as =
base for
>packages and build system, that don't actually have configure=2E =
 For
>disabled tests, however, it is not clear without comment whether they=

>fail or whether they simply don't exist=2E
>
>> > yadm has a few things y=
ou need to patch=2E  For one, its shebang 
>> > is
>> > /bin/sh despite req=
uiring bash=2E  Also it contains a large number 
>> > of
>> > _PROGRAM vari=
ables, which would be need to be replaced by their 
>> > actual
>> > store =
path (use the which procedure for that)=2E
>> 
>> Patch them to be the $(wh=
ich <exe>) expression or evaluate that?
>> If the latter, I'm not sure how =
that would handle installing deps
>> retroactively=2E
>You'd add the packag=
es, that define those programs as inputs, then
>you do something along the =
lines of
>
>  (substitute* "yadm" 
>    (("(=2E*)_PROGRAM=3D\"(=2E*)\"" all=
 var prog)
>     (format #f "~a_PROGRAM=3D~s" var (which prog))))
>
>inside=
 some phase after unpack=2E
>Please apologize if the snippet above doesn't =
actually work for your
>case, I haven't tried it=2E
>
>By the way, git form=
at-patch seems to swallow the Umlaut (or however
>it's called in your langu=
age) in your surname=2E  If you want it to be
>that way, then fair enough, =
just know that there's no policy
>prohibiting UTF-8 in committer names=2E
>=

>Regards,
>Leo

------3J4PSSI0ZWU07F1HEYBN3YFS0DRI30
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Leo,<br><=
br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I understand what to do, I just wasn't sure how=
 dependencies installed later would be handled=2E Some are optional and if =
they don't exist yadm just carries on, but some are required=2E<br><br></di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto">Would the optional ones still be handled? </div>
<div =
class=3D"gmail_quote" >On 31 Jan 2021, at 20:36, Leo Prikler &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat" target=3D"_blank">leo=2Eprikle=
r@student=2Etugraz=2Eat</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204=
); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Hi Ellen,<br><br>Am Sonntag, de=
n 31=2E01=2E2021, 20:16 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px so=
lid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi Leo,<br> <br> Thanks for the feedback=
=2E<br> <br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex =
0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> Your commit i=
s missing a ChangeLog in its message=2E<br></blockquote> This will be added=
 with the next patch=2E<br> <br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: =
1ex;"> Document why (i=2Ee=2E "no check target")=2E<br></blockquote> I have=
 also added similar comments for the other removed stages=2E<br></blockquot=
e>That's not as important, gnu-build-system is often used as base for<br>pa=
ckages and build system, that don't actually have configure=2E  For<br>disa=
bled tests, however, it is not clear without comment whether they<br>fail o=
r whether they simply don't exist=2E<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; pa=
dding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0p=
t 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> yadm ha=
s a few things you need to patch=2E  For one, its shebang <br> is<br> /bin/=
sh despite requiring bash=2E  Also it contains a large number <br> of<br> _=
PROGRAM variables, which would be need to be replaced by their <br> actual<=
br> store path (use the which procedure for that)=2E<br></blockquote> <br> =
Patch them to be the $(which &lt;exe&gt;) expression or evaluate that?<br> =
If the latter, I'm not sure how that would handle installing deps<br> retro=
actively=2E<br></blockquote>You'd add the packages, that define those progr=
ams as inputs, then<br>you do something along the lines of<br><br>  (substi=
tute* "yadm" <br>    (("(=2E*)_PROGRAM=3D\"(=2E*)\"" all var prog)<br>     =
(format #f "~a_PROGRAM=3D~s" var (which prog))))<br><br>inside some phase a=
fter unpack=2E<br>Please apologize if the snippet above doesn't actually wo=
rk for your<br>case, I haven't tried it=2E<br><br>By the way, git format-pa=
tch seems to swallow the Umlaut (or however<br>it's called in your language=
) in your surname=2E  If you want it to be<br>that way, then fair enough, j=
ust know that there's no policy<br>prohibiting UTF-8 in committer names=2E<=
br><br>Regards,<br>Leo<br></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
------3J4PSSI0ZWU07F1HEYBN3YFS0DRI30--

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Am Montag, den 01.02.2021, 03:44 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyő:
> Hi Leo,
> 
> I understand what to do, I just wasn't sure how dependencies
> installed later would be handled. Some are optional and if they don't
> exist yadm just carries on, but some are required.
> 
> Would the optional ones still be handled?
Guix' policy is to include as many optional dependencies as possible,
up to a reasonable limit in closure size.  In this case, that's
hopefully all of them.

Regards,
Leo

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I understand that, the question was how are they handled if they're install=
ed after yadm? Would yadm be rebuilt with the new inputs? 

On 1 Feb 2021, =
08:14, at 08:14, Leo Prikler <leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat> wrote:
>=
Am Montag, den 01=2E02=2E2021, 03:44 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:
>> Hi =
Leo,
>> 
>> I understand what to do, I just wasn't sure how dependencies
>>=
 installed later would be handled=2E Some are optional and if they don't
>>=
 exist yadm just carries on, but some are required=2E
>> 
>> Would the opti=
onal ones still be handled?
>Guix' policy is to include as many optional de=
pendencies as possible,
>up to a reasonable limit in closure size=2E  In th=
is case, that's
>hopefully all of them=2E
>
>Regards,
>Leo

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">I understand=
 that, the question was how are they handled if they're installed after yad=
m? Would yadm be rebuilt with the new inputs? </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" >On 1 Feb 2021, at 08:14, Leo Prikler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:leo=2Eprik=
ler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat" target=3D"_blank">leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=
=2Eat</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt =
0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1=
ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Am Montag, den 01=2E02=2E2021, 03:44 +0000 schrie=
b Ellis Keny=C5=91:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi=
 Leo,<br> <br> I understand what to do, I just wasn't sure how dependencies=
<br> installed later would be handled=2E Some are optional and if they don'=
t<br> exist yadm just carries on, but some are required=2E<br> <br> Would t=
he optional ones still be handled?<br></blockquote>Guix' policy is to inclu=
de as many optional dependencies as possible,<br>up to a reasonable limit i=
n closure size=2E  In this case, that's<br>hopefully all of them=2E<br><br>=
Regards,<br>Leo<br></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
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Am Montag, den 01.02.2021, 10:06 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyő:
> I understand that, the question was how are they handled if they're
> installed after yadm? Would yadm be rebuilt with the new inputs?
I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of functional
package management here.  yadm should – like any other package – depend
on its inputs and just its inputs.  Whether or not you have another
package installed should not be relevant for the functioning of yadm
and likewise not cause a rebuild.  What should cause a rebuild is any
of its inputs changing between two generations of `guix pull'.

Regards,
Leo

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I don't think you're understanding my question.

A number of the dependencies are optional, for example some of the=20
jinja template commands.

When this builds, if those packages aren't installed before you=20
install yadm, the path gets set to `#f`.

If you then later install them (one of them for example is a=20
python module so likely wouldn't be installed through guix), the=20
path in yadm is still `#f` so it would never find them.

Do I have to also package everything it has a soft dependency on?

Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> writes:

> Am Montag, den 01.02.2021, 10:06 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:
>> I understand that, the question was how are they handled if=20
>> they're
>> installed after yadm? Would yadm be rebuilt with the new=20
>> inputs?
> I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of=20
> functional
> package management here.  yadm should =E2=80=93 like any other package =
=E2=80=93=20
> depend
> on its inputs and just its inputs.  Whether or not you have=20
> another
> package installed should not be relevant for the functioning of=20
> yadm
> and likewise not cause a rebuild.  What should cause a rebuild=20
> is any
> of its inputs changing between two generations of `guix pull'.
>
> Regards,
> Leo


--=20
Regards,
elken

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Hi Ellis,

Am Samstag, den 06.02.2021, 10:05 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyő:
> I don't think you're understanding my question.
> 
> A number of the dependencies are optional, for example some of the 
> jinja template commands.
And Guix' policy is – as I've already pointed out – to provide such
optional dependencies as inputs up to a reasonable limit in closure
size.

> When this builds, if those packages aren't installed before you 
> install yadm, the path gets set to `#f`.
That's not how building works.  If jinja is *present in the build
environment*, it is available for substitution.  This has nothing to do
with packages the user may or may not have installed at that point.
If not, then yeah, you end up with #f.  It makes no sense to set up
substitutions for commands, that aren't present in the build
environment.

> If you then later install them (one of them for example is a 
> python module so likely wouldn't be installed through guix), the 
> path in yadm is still `#f` so it would never find them.
You can and should install python packages through Guix.  We here at
Guix Solutions™ do not approve of the need for programming language
specific package managers, especially not multiple ones within the same
project.

> Do I have to also package everything it has a soft dependency on?
As long as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, yes.
If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, the software
works perfectly fine without it and few people will be negatively
impacted by a minor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it as-is,
provided that the missing dependency is itself free software.  If there
is an optional dependency on non-free software, mentions of that
software should be removed.

Regards,
Leo

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 charset=UTF-8

> As long as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, yes=2E=

If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, the software
works p=
erfectly fine without it and few people will be negatively
impacted by a mi=
nor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it as-is

This is the only poi=
nt I'm making=2E Things like templates and encryption aren't used by everyo=
ne so could definitely be optional, so I was asking if there was a simple w=
ay to handle optional inputs=2E As it doesn't seem like there is I'll just =
add everything required=2E 

On 6 Feb 2021, 10:48, at 10:48, Leo Prikler <l=
eo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat> wrote:
>Hi Ellis,
>
>Am Samstag, den 06=
=2E02=2E2021, 10:05 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:
>> I don't think you're=
 understanding my question=2E
>> 
>> A number of the dependencies are optio=
nal, for example some of the 
>> jinja template commands=2E
>And Guix' poli=
cy is =E2=80=93 as I've already pointed out =E2=80=93 to provide such
>opti=
onal dependencies as inputs up to a reasonable limit in closure
>size=2E
>
=
>> When this builds, if those packages aren't installed before you 
>> inst=
all yadm, the path gets set to `#f`=2E
>That's not how building works=2E  I=
f jinja is *present in the build
>environment*, it is available for substit=
ution=2E  This has nothing to do
>with packages the user may or may not hav=
e installed at that point=2E
>If not, then yeah, you end up with #f=2E  It =
makes no sense to set up
>substitutions for commands, that aren't present i=
n the build
>environment=2E
>
>> If you then later install them (one of the=
m for example is a 
>> python module so likely wouldn't be installed throug=
h guix), the 
>> path in yadm is still `#f` so it would never find them=2E
=
>You can and should install python packages through Guix=2E  We here at
>Gu=
ix Solutions=E2=84=A2 do not approve of the need for programming language
>=
specific package managers, especially not multiple ones within the same
>pr=
oject=2E
>
>> Do I have to also package everything it has a soft dependency=
 on?
>As long as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, ye=
s=2E
>If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, the software
>w=
orks perfectly fine without it and few people will be negatively
>impacted =
by a minor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it as-is,
>provided tha=
t the missing dependency is itself free software=2E  If there
>is an option=
al dependency on non-free software, mentions of that
>software should be re=
moved=2E
>
>Regards,
>Leo

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; As long=
 as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, yes=2E<br></div=
>
<div dir=3D"auto">If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, t=
he software<br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">works perfectly fine without it and=
 few people will be negatively<br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">impacted by a mi=
nor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it as-is<br><br></div>
<div di=
r=3D"auto">This is the only point I'm making=2E Things like templates and e=
ncryption aren't used by everyone so could definitely be optional, so I was=
 asking if there was a simple way to handle optional inputs=2E As it doesn'=
t seem like there is I'll just add everything required=2E </div>
<div class=
=3D"gmail_quote" >On 6 Feb 2021, at 10:48, Leo Prikler &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat" target=3D"_blank">leo=2Eprikler@stud=
ent=2Etugraz=2Eat</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); pad=
ding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Hi Ellis,<br><br>Am Samstag, den 06=
=2E02=2E2021, 10:05 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid =
#729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> I don't think you're understanding my questio=
n=2E<br> <br> A number of the dependencies are optional, for example some o=
f the <br> jinja template commands=2E<br></blockquote>And Guix' policy is =
=E2=80=93 as I've already pointed out =E2=80=93 to provide such<br>optional=
 dependencies as inputs up to a reasonable limit in closure<br>size=2E<br><=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; =
border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> When this builds, if t=
hose packages aren't installed before you <br> install yadm, the path gets =
set to `#f`=2E<br></blockquote>That's not how building works=2E  If jinja i=
s *present in the build<br>environment*, it is available for substitution=
=2E  This has nothing to do<br>with packages the user may or may not have i=
nstalled at that point=2E<br>If not, then yeah, you end up with #f=2E  It m=
akes no sense to set up<br>substitutions for commands, that aren't present =
in the build<br>environment=2E<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-=
left: 1ex;"> If you then later install them (one of them for example is a <=
br> python module so likely wouldn't be installed through guix), the <br> p=
ath in yadm is still `#f` so it would never find them=2E<br></blockquote>Yo=
u can and should install python packages through Guix=2E  We here at<br>Gui=
x Solutions=E2=84=A2 do not approve of the need for programming language<br=
>specific package managers, especially not multiple ones within the same<br=
>project=2E<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0=
pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Do I h=
ave to also package everything it has a soft dependency on?<br></blockquote=
>As long as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, yes=2E<=
br>If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, the software<br>wo=
rks perfectly fine without it and few people will be negatively<br>impacted=
 by a minor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it as-is,<br>provided =
that the missing dependency is itself free software=2E  If there<br>is an o=
ptional dependency on non-free software, mentions of that<br>software shoul=
d be removed=2E<br><br>Regards,<br>Leo<br></pre></blockquote></div></body><=
/html>
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Am Samstag, den 06.02.2021, 10:58 +0000 schrieb Ellis Kenyő:
> > As long as it can reasonably be expected, that users will want it, 
> > yes.
> > If the soft dependency is indeed completely optional, the software
> > works perfectly fine without it and few people will be negatively
> > impacted by a minor feature missing, then it's fine to leave it
> > as-is
> 
> This is the only point I'm making. Things like templates and
> encryption aren't used by everyone so could definitely be optional,
> so I was asking if there was a simple way to handle optional inputs.
> As it doesn't seem like there is I'll just add everything required.
I'd like to say "use your best judgement", but you seem to be a little
too fixated on having a minimal package description (and putting
minimal effort into it).  For instance, when the package advertises
encryption, while it is technically optional, shipping it without gpg
would be a grave oversight!  (On the other hand, you need not
necessarily have openssl, since encryption requires any of gpg or
openssl, not both.)  Same for templates, at least awk is required and
either j2cli or envtpl would be nice to have.

Regards,
Leo

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------JL93IFDTIF4PIJ6U9MKCCIEIDYLI4H
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8

I'm not at all fixated on a minimal package and I resent the idea of puttin=
g minimal effort in=2E

I was purely asking a simple question, there's no n=
eed to resort to rudeness=2E 

On 6 Feb 2021, 11:22, at 11:22, Leo Prikler =
<leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat> wrote:
>Am Samstag, den 06=2E02=2E202=
1, 10:58 +0000 schrieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:
>> > As long as it can reasonably =
be expected, that users will want it, 
>> > yes=2E
>> > If the soft depende=
ncy is indeed completely optional, the software
>> > works perfectly fine w=
ithout it and few people will be negatively
>> > impacted by a minor featur=
e missing, then it's fine to leave it
>> > as-is
>> 
>> This is the only po=
int I'm making=2E Things like templates and
>> encryption aren't used by ev=
eryone so could definitely be optional,
>> so I was asking if there was a s=
imple way to handle optional inputs=2E
>> As it doesn't seem like there is =
I'll just add everything required=2E
>I'd like to say "use your best judgem=
ent", but you seem to be a little
>too fixated on having a minimal package =
description (and putting
>minimal effort into it)=2E  For instance, when th=
e package advertises
>encryption, while it is technically optional, shippin=
g it without gpg
>would be a grave oversight!  (On the other hand, you need=
 not
>necessarily have openssl, since encryption requires any of gpg or
>op=
enssl, not both=2E)  Same for templates, at least awk is required and
>eith=
er j2cli or envtpl would be nice to have=2E
>
>Regards,
>Leo

------JL93IFDTIF4PIJ6U9MKCCIEIDYLI4H
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">I'm not at a=
ll fixated on a minimal package and I resent the idea of putting minimal ef=
fort in=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I was purely asking a simple que=
stion, there's no need to resort to rudeness=2E </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_=
quote" >On 6 Feb 2021, at 11:22, Leo Prikler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:leo=2Epr=
ikler@student=2Etugraz=2Eat" target=3D"_blank">leo=2Eprikler@student=2Etugr=
az=2Eat</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0p=
t 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left:=
 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Am Samstag, den 06=2E02=2E2021, 10:58 +0000 sch=
rieb Ellis Keny=C5=91:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; bor=
der-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"> As long as it can reasona=
bly be expected, that users will want it, <br> yes=2E<br> If the soft depen=
dency is indeed completely optional, the software<br> works perfectly fine =
without it and few people will be negatively<br> impacted by a minor featur=
e missing, then it's fine to leave it<br> as-is<br></blockquote> <br> This =
is the only point I'm making=2E Things like templates and<br> encryption ar=
en't used by everyone so could definitely be optional,<br> so I was asking =
if there was a simple way to handle optional inputs=2E<br> As it doesn't se=
em like there is I'll just add everything required=2E<br></blockquote>I'd l=
ike to say "use your best judgement", but you seem to be a little<br>too fi=
xated on having a minimal package description (and putting<br>minimal effor=
t into it)=2E  For instance, when the package advertises<br>encryption, whi=
le it is technically optional, shipping it without gpg<br>would be a grave =
oversight!  (On the other hand, you need not<br>necessarily have openssl, s=
ince encryption requires any of gpg or<br>openssl, not both=2E)  Same for t=
emplates, at least awk is required and<br>either j2cli or envtpl would be n=
ice to have=2E<br><br>Regards,<br>Leo<br></pre></blockquote></div></body></=
html>
------JL93IFDTIF4PIJ6U9MKCCIEIDYLI4H--

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Ellis,

Ellis Keny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
> I was asking if there was a simple way to handle optional=20
> inputs.

While this is an oxymoron for the reasons pointed out by Leo,=20
there is _nothing_ wrong with simply leaving some variables at=20
their default e.g.

  GPG_PROGRAM=3D"gpg"

and letting yadm look them up at run time in its $PATH.

Does that not work?

For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a=20
solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating library)=20
searches for these.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Ellis,

Ellis Keny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
> I was asking if there was a simple way to handle optional=20
> inputs.

While this is an oxymoron for the reasons pointed out by Leo,=20
there is _nothing_ wrong with simply leaving some variables at=20
their default e.g.

  GPG_PROGRAM=3D"gpg"

and letting yadm look them up at run time in its $PATH.

Does that not work?

For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a=20
solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating library)=20
searches for these.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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------7ML3IOUIQNY4CECWC3VK218LQFFT2T
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Hi Tobias,

Yes I am aware that it's more complicated than the initial ques=
tion, I'm fine with adding all the dependencies as inputs=2E

I was simply =
asking the correct way to handle optional inputs=2E

> Does that not work?
=

Yes it would absolutely work, I have tested as such in depth on multiple g=
uix systems=2E

> For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a=
 
solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating library) 
searches for=
 these=2E

Yes I still have further testing with regards to templates as I =
don't personally use them=2E

Thanks you for your input Tobias 

On 6 Feb 2=
021, 11:37, at 11:37, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias=2Egr> wrote:
>Ellis,=

>
>Ellis Keny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
>> I =
was asking if there was a simple way to handle optional 
>> inputs=2E
>
>Wh=
ile this is an oxymoron for the reasons pointed out by Leo, 
>there is _not=
hing_ wrong with simply leaving some variables at 
>their default e=2Eg=2E
=
>
>  GPG_PROGRAM=3D"gpg"
>
>and letting yadm look them up at run time in it=
s $PATH=2E
>
>Does that not work?
>
>For things like templates {native-,}se=
arch-paths can be a 
>solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating li=
brary) 
>searches for these=2E
>
>Kind regards,
>
>T G-R

------7ML3IOUIQNY4CECWC3VK218LQFFT2T
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Tobias,<b=
r><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes I am aware that it's more complicated th=
an the initial question, I'm fine with adding all the dependencies as input=
s=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I was simply asking the correct way to=
 handle optional inputs=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Does that n=
ot work?<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes it would absolutely work, I ha=
ve tested as such in depth on multiple guix systems=2E<br><br></div>
<div d=
ir=3D"auto">&gt; For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a =
<br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">solution, depending on how yadm (or its templa=
ting library) <br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">searches for these=2E<br><br></d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes I still have further testing with regards to temp=
lates as I don't personally use them=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Tha=
nks you for your input Tobias </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote" >On 6 Feb 2=
021, at 11:37, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@tobias=2Egr" =
target=3D"_blank">me@tobias=2Egr</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,=
 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Ellis,<br><br>Ellis Ke=
ny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px =
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> I was asking if there was a simple way =
to handle optional <br> inputs=2E<br></blockquote><br>While this is an oxym=
oron for the reasons pointed out by Leo, <br>there is _nothing_ wrong with =
simply leaving some variables at <br>their default e=2Eg=2E<br><br>  GPG_PR=
OGRAM=3D"gpg"<br><br>and letting yadm look them up at run time in its $PATH=
=2E<br><br>Does that not work?<br><br>For things like templates {native-,}s=
earch-paths can be a <br>solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating=
 library) <br>searches for these=2E<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>T G-R<br></=
pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
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Subject: [bug#46215] [PATCH] Add yadm
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------7ML3IOUIQNY4CECWC3VK218LQFFT2T
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Hi Tobias,

Yes I am aware that it's more complicated than the initial ques=
tion, I'm fine with adding all the dependencies as inputs=2E

I was simply =
asking the correct way to handle optional inputs=2E

> Does that not work?
=

Yes it would absolutely work, I have tested as such in depth on multiple g=
uix systems=2E

> For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a=
 
solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating library) 
searches for=
 these=2E

Yes I still have further testing with regards to templates as I =
don't personally use them=2E

Thanks you for your input Tobias 

On 6 Feb 2=
021, 11:37, at 11:37, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias=2Egr> wrote:
>Ellis,=

>
>Ellis Keny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
>> I =
was asking if there was a simple way to handle optional 
>> inputs=2E
>
>Wh=
ile this is an oxymoron for the reasons pointed out by Leo, 
>there is _not=
hing_ wrong with simply leaving some variables at 
>their default e=2Eg=2E
=
>
>  GPG_PROGRAM=3D"gpg"
>
>and letting yadm look them up at run time in it=
s $PATH=2E
>
>Does that not work?
>
>For things like templates {native-,}se=
arch-paths can be a 
>solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating li=
brary) 
>searches for these=2E
>
>Kind regards,
>
>T G-R

------7ML3IOUIQNY4CECWC3VK218LQFFT2T
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"zoom: 0%;"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Tobias,<b=
r><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes I am aware that it's more complicated th=
an the initial question, I'm fine with adding all the dependencies as input=
s=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I was simply asking the correct way to=
 handle optional inputs=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Does that n=
ot work?<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes it would absolutely work, I ha=
ve tested as such in depth on multiple guix systems=2E<br><br></div>
<div d=
ir=3D"auto">&gt; For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a =
<br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">solution, depending on how yadm (or its templa=
ting library) <br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">searches for these=2E<br><br></d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"auto">Yes I still have further testing with regards to temp=
lates as I don't personally use them=2E<br><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Tha=
nks you for your input Tobias </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote" >On 6 Feb 2=
021, at 11:37, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@tobias=2Egr" =
target=3D"_blank">me@tobias=2Egr</a>&gt; wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,=
 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class=3D"blue">Ellis,<br><br>Ellis Ke=
ny=C5=91 via Guix-patches via =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px =
solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> I was asking if there was a simple way =
to handle optional <br> inputs=2E<br></blockquote><br>While this is an oxym=
oron for the reasons pointed out by Leo, <br>there is _nothing_ wrong with =
simply leaving some variables at <br>their default e=2Eg=2E<br><br>  GPG_PR=
OGRAM=3D"gpg"<br><br>and letting yadm look them up at run time in its $PATH=
=2E<br><br>Does that not work?<br><br>For things like templates {native-,}s=
earch-paths can be a <br>solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating=
 library) <br>searches for these=2E<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>T G-R<br></=
pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
------7ML3IOUIQNY4CECWC3VK218LQFFT2T--

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--=-=-=
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Leo, Ellis,

Leo Prikler =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
> I'd like to say "use your best judgement", but you seem to be a=20
> little
> too fixated on having a minimal package description (and putting
> minimal effort into it).

That's uncalled for.  It's certainly not the impression I get.

> For instance, when the package advertises encryption, while it=20
> is
> technically optional, shipping it without gpg would be a grave=20
> oversight!

Well, that depends.  My own rule of thumb for =E2=80=98foo supports=20
encryption!=E2=80=99 is:

  $ gpg
  bash: gpg: command not found
  $ foo --encrypt
  error: whoopsie: BUG in do_foo()+0x4f44!
  <16 lines of barftrace>
  error: warning: error: No such file or directory. (-ERROR)
  $

=3D> Make gpg an input, and quick.

  $ gpg
  bash: gpg: command not found
  $ foo --encrypt
  error: gpg not found, please install it.
  $

=3D> This is totally fine, users who want it know what to do next.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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--=-=-=
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Leo, Ellis,

Leo Prikler =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
> I'd like to say "use your best judgement", but you seem to be a=20
> little
> too fixated on having a minimal package description (and putting
> minimal effort into it).

That's uncalled for.  It's certainly not the impression I get.

> For instance, when the package advertises encryption, while it=20
> is
> technically optional, shipping it without gpg would be a grave=20
> oversight!

Well, that depends.  My own rule of thumb for =E2=80=98foo supports=20
encryption!=E2=80=99 is:

  $ gpg
  bash: gpg: command not found
  $ foo --encrypt
  error: whoopsie: BUG in do_foo()+0x4f44!
  <16 lines of barftrace>
  error: warning: error: No such file or directory. (-ERROR)
  $

=3D> Make gpg an input, and quick.

  $ gpg
  bash: gpg: command not found
  $ foo --encrypt
  error: gpg not found, please install it.
  $

=3D> This is totally fine, users who want it know what to do next.

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Am Samstag, den 06.02.2021, 12:30 +0100 schrieb Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
> For things like templates {native-,}search-paths can be a 
> solution, depending on how yadm (or its templating library) 
> searches for these.
In this context, templates are files, in which specific substitutions
are made by a template engine, e.g. a hardcoded awk script.  It has
little to do with environment variables.

Regards,
Leo

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Leo Prikler =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
> In this context, templates are files, in which specific=20
> substitutions
> are made by a template engine, e.g. a hardcoded awk script.  It=20
> has
> little to do with environment variables.

Schade.  Thanks!

Kind regards,

T G-R

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Tobias,

Am Samstag, den 06.02.2021, 12:46 +0100 schrieb Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
> Leo, Ellis,
> 
> Leo Prikler 写道：
> > I'd like to say "use your best judgement", but you seem to be a 
> > little
> > too fixated on having a minimal package description (and putting
> > minimal effort into it).
> 
> That's uncalled for.  It's certainly not the impression I get.
Apologies.  To me it read like Ellis wanted to avoid making certain
substitutions for no apparent reason.  I understand, that there may at
times be valid concerns w.r.t. having something as input, but rather
than talk about specific concerns, we just went in circles over what
"optional" means.

> > For instance, when the package advertises encryption, while it 
> > is
> > technically optional, shipping it without gpg would be a grave 
> > oversight!
> 
> Well, that depends.  My own rule of thumb for ‘foo supports 
> encryption!’ is:
> 
>   $ gpg
>   bash: gpg: command not found
>   $ foo --encrypt
>   error: whoopsie: BUG in do_foo()+0x4f44!
>   <16 lines of barftrace>
>   error: warning: error: No such file or directory. (-ERROR)
>   $
> 
> => Make gpg an input, and quick.
> 
>   $ gpg
>   bash: gpg: command not found
>   $ foo --encrypt
>   error: gpg not found, please install it.
>   $
> 
> => This is totally fine, users who want it know what to do next.
Fair enough, but I'd still like to raise a point w.r.t. frequency.  If
most use cases were to somehow involve encryption, I still think it's
better to have it in by default rather than not.  Unlike Debian, we
don't really have (and probably don't want) a "recommended packages"
field in packages.

Regards,
Leo

Last modified: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:45:02 UTC

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