GNU bug report logs - #46385
User awareness of Anti-Features

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Package: guix; Reported by: soheil@HIDDEN; dated Mon, 8 Feb 2021 15:40:01 UTC; Maintainer for guix is bug-guix@HIDDEN.

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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Maxime Devos <maximedevos@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features
References: <f9b336f64b53e808ebb86880f5014569@HIDDEN>
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Hi,

Maxime Devos <maximedevos@HIDDEN> skribis:

> I'll have to think some more on whether this is something Guix needs, but=
 I
> do have a partial concrete implementation proposal:
>
> Packages can have a =E2=80=98properties=E2=80=99 field, e.g. from gnu/pac=
kages/bioconductors.scm:
>
> (define-public r-reactome-db
>   (package
>     (name "r-reactome-db")
>     (version "1.70.0")
>     [...]
>     (properties `((upstream-name . "reactome.db")))))
>
> Maybe add a =E2=80=98anti-features=E2=80=99 entry field for some packages?
> E.g.,
>
> (define-public some-twitter-app
>   (package
>    (name "tweet")
>    [...]
>    (properties `((anti-features x y z)))))
>
> x, y and z can be symbols, e.g. based upon from https://f-droid.org/en/do=
cs/Anti-Features/
>
> * ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?)
> * tracking (should be patched out if possible)
> * non-free-network-services
> * non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but maybe=
 in a channel)
>
> The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2=
=80=99 would need to
> be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2=80=
=99 code
> should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features.

I=E2=80=99m sympathetic with the idea of raising awareness of those
anti-features.  However, I don=E2=80=99t see a clear way we could =E2=80=9C=
define=E2=80=9D each
possible anti-feature; some are definitely ill-defined (for instance, a
service is neither =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D nor =E2=80=9Cnon-free=E2=80=9D in=
 the same sense as software
can be free or non-free.)  It=E2=80=99s also not entirely clear to me how t=
he UI
could make good use of it.

That said, there are anti-features that we have always patched out in
the past, such as tracking/=E2=80=9Cphoning home=E2=80=9D and auto-upgrades=
.  Perhaps we
could formalize that in our packaging guidelines?

Ludo=E2=80=99.
Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#46385; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 46385 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:09 -0500
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix <bug-guix@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features
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On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 01:28:40PM +0000, soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
> Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages.
> It is best to have anti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-feature during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...

I use F-Droid, but I dislike their "anti-feature" messaging. It's not
clear to me that it's an example we should follow.
Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#46385; Package guix. Full text available.

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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 11:53:09 -0500
From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN>
To: soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix <bug-guix@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features
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On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 01:28:40PM +0000, soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
> Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages.
> It is best to have anti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-feature during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...

I use F-Droid, but I dislike their "anti-feature" messaging. It's not
clear to me that it's an example we should follow.
Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#46385; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 46385 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Message-ID: <c3fcd7974b4493d931d6a1f3e2175d86426c536e.camel@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46385: User awareness of Anti-Features
From: Maxime Devos <maximedevos@HIDDEN>
To: soheil@HIDDEN, 46385 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:38:36 +0100
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Hi,

On Mon, 2021-02-08 at 13:28 +0000, soheil--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix w=
rote:
> Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages.
> It is best to have anti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user=
 know
>  which program has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be awar=
e of
> anti-feature during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed..=
.
>=20
> An example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a
> proprietary server, and users who know less about computer softwares,
> are not aware of the anti-feature.

I'll have to think some more on whether this is something Guix needs, but I
do have a partial concrete implementation proposal:

Packages can have a =E2=80=98properties=E2=80=99 field, e.g. from gnu/packa=
ges/bioconductors.scm:

(define-public r-reactome-db
  (package
    (name "r-reactome-db")
    (version "1.70.0")
    [...]
    (properties `((upstream-name . "reactome.db")))))

Maybe add a =E2=80=98anti-features=E2=80=99 entry field for some packages?
E.g.,

(define-public some-twitter-app
  (package
   (name "tweet")
   [...]
   (properties `((anti-features x y z)))))

x, y and z can be symbols, e.g. based upon from https://f-droid.org/en/docs=
/Anti-Features/

* ads (I don't think any application in Guix has these?)
* tracking (should be patched out if possible)
* non-free-network-services
* non-free-dependencies (probably not allowed in upstream Guix, but maybe i=
n a channel)

The code behind =E2=80=98guix show=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98guix search=E2=80=
=99 would need to
be adjusted to display anti-features, and the =E2=80=98guix install=E2=80=
=99 code
should warn if someone installs a package with anti-features.

Greetings,
Maxime

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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#46385; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Users should be aware of anti-feature of packages.=0AIt is best to have a=
nti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program =
has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-featu=
re during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...=0A=0AAn =
example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a propri=
etary server, and users who know less about computer softwares, are not a=
ware of the anti-feature.

----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"t=
ext/html; charset=3Dutf-8" /></head><body><div data-html-editor-font-wrap=
per=3D"true" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">U=
sers should be aware of anti-feature of packages.<br>It is best to have a=
nti-feature tag in anti-feature packages so that user know which program =
has anti-features; Like F-Droid. Also, user should be aware of anti-featu=
re during installation. And wherever this awareness is needed...<br><br>A=
n example is Telegram, Telegram is a program that user connects to a prop=
rietary server, and users who know less about computer softwares, are not=
 aware of the anti-feature.<br><br><signature></signature></div></body></=
html>

----=_RainLoop_175_216542502.1612790920--
Acknowledgement sent to soheil@HIDDEN:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#46385; Package guix. Full text available.
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