Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jun 2022 13:07:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 17 09:07:28 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44290 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o2BhA-0002KJ-Fv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:07:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1o2Bh8-0002K4-8x for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:07:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=f0EH/M7ZuUMINf8+J/01YHtRNYMHEqsHi+fr5OLZoj4=; b=YQrLq7C1RFtr1edcLF8gLJXdk/ vdSwqDhWEqEQsqNx2CnQ4z6x17v7h/xMchzJ6UZyHtzYytjbAX8ticgRA3AwnQyhRWkiaCWtH1DDS l/FlS9TDxjgE0OtiwT6hoeQZlClAvMU3yK7uC35AE7F3p3nNa+dUij0rFJcfsjnvRoq4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1o2Bgy-0003Be-2O; Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:07:19 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Sevdaliza's _Shabrang_: "No Way" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:07:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> (Glenn Morris's message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:27:29 -0500") Message-ID: <87h74j8mm4.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> writes: > Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively harmful. > Emacs having a package to help you reply to spam is at best pointless, > but most likely actively harmful. > > This is one [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> writes: > Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively harmful. > Emacs having a package to help you reply to spam is at best pointless, > but most likely actively harmful. > > This is one of the many things that makes Emacs look antiquated. > I find the refusal to even obsolete such things demotivating for working > on Emacs. So IMO the cost for keeping such things around is non-zero. I think, on reflection, that this is a good argument. And I agree with everybody's that said that you should never use uce.el, so I've now moved it to obsolete. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2021 23:56:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 17 19:56:53 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mcG1N-0002gF-2P for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 19:56:53 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180]:41824) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mcG1L-0002g1-6u for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 19:56:52 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f180.google.com with SMTP id e10so5125562plh.8 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jpXXgFmhenIDLyNDRNleE3n6RBaiiAO42Qff8XYDapE=; b=oKcK28mAXMLgvsULL5qVJ8mi5V5kAzFSUmtl95feV0+pPn6nQaIHjJ6za1IpZ/fD57 CysyW7w33ofbPfM+EcgTSB3wKdi26PXiZV9LmKh3MrxlgzHEDdBmNfwlBzzw4oNuTZtc Puuny6G62zutTvZz3rVx/mjl7xUEgOzZbeC03/BC2CAM4aAca68MoA7q8VSBbezRN9dm 7KC45MGXYPQP7zwIPLD99FTNMCUJCtgnPC9XzQKwX9u+OEqDsttkcp0tw0cxuxeJK9LD 4AkimGWz/CuQMip/mPx52iNwWByoY09WlQCXg0MBbfy93zFlTZ2MI/lisRAoza/mTbTf eU3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531i1hQkIpp8EwHZ80asvFv9LbvKPJPOE+vHZVRSietBi5i8lMgN jAIZgRQ2NRJxROwBkjvMSio/JssZizer5f0Z52Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyG/i2annwLL6FnWLev0RidRhMFw+34xtj3v3Iuxd1rZGbQoCKumBXbWebr2khJuVVpkr1sxjCUWAb1n2jU704= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:245:: with SMTP id t5mr27663649pje.133.1634515005265; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:56:44 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83lf2tgml7.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> <837deek1jw.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnK1Uec4DV6ReSNg3eVKaejxBkZ3Mak214sb9Jt7V8A0A@HIDDEN> <83lf2tgml7.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 16:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkmk8TUuLEtpSDN-wAR3qAGCFGNyDOEUPfnnU8mEOeXAv+w@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> Thanks, I believe all your comments are fixed in the attached. > > Yes, thanks. Thanks, pushed to master as commit 735086e440.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Oct 2021 12:50:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 16 08:50:55 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41123 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbj9L-0008Qn-Dq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:50:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbj9J-0008Qa-MF for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:50:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48132) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbj9D-0004Ya-JK; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:50:47 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2991 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbj9C-0005Hx-Q7; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:50:47 -0400 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 15:50:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83lf2tgml7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmnK1Uec4DV6ReSNg3eVKaejxBkZ3Mak214sb9Jt7V8A0A@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:48:55 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> <837deek1jw.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnK1Uec4DV6ReSNg3eVKaejxBkZ3Mak214sb9Jt7V8A0A@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:48:55 -0400 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN > > Thanks, I believe all your comments are fixed in the attached. Yes, thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Oct 2021 12:49:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 16 08:49:03 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41119 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbj7W-0008Nx-Uv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:49:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f42.google.com ([209.85.216.42]:40819) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mbj7V-0008NU-UL for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:49:02 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f42.google.com with SMTP id pf6-20020a17090b1d8600b0019fa884ab85so11263031pjb.5 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 05:49:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JyHXgUUS+brXprU4W/CXYjOzBF445t8iV28btH1CVAM=; b=k3nDK8LH3sLx0w7KCgji3Lzgzgs4AiWr1QxP4WXduiDFQVMIiP8VSgnweGPhEzAwbc RoqPlGKDPKpkD6Evpxo5Nhqp0mU1b+XgZc+Hr315xXCcUdAk83W2wUESERiuztuBL7qo g3KWqWLvn86giYIRCboOyFz+ELj+j8S2FlbXSfsFZ/uj1R/5TstU0BYJo3HfSfkodVMZ ADs1hLuxw776dAPupqg6Zpu0O5L9LRHEg0fP1weWb9Cts9i0K8mrdLcb06mprvzhcPqg WmUD/lsS0waKaWamkc12KaKalh+pcWk5IZyqbffgiH7FLVd0OfcgGPpXu7GyQjT0aN+2 D/0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531OMXLRjN306Zesh6jZD15U6QgYh5zvTG4pGn8Ynws/Xs6rqNgO 3fjCWzrccVEz+yuvIe6Wt0isTenLg5pvRgbLayI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyScdyS+grASf6TCBxnJhhZZl80RaYUK7vYuwHZbKHo6aQIREJZcxuo4yXlAU5Ef8KPwTeyKj/KocWoyLVuRf0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c1cb:b0:13f:8e99:2158 with SMTP id c11-20020a170902c1cb00b0013f8e992158mr9815533plc.32.1634388536032; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:48:55 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <837deek1jw.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> <837deek1jw.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:48:55 -0400 Message-ID: <CADwFkmnK1Uec4DV6ReSNg3eVKaejxBkZ3Mak214sb9Jt7V8A0A@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000001d98cc05ce77bc73" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000001d98cc05ce77bc73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > This should pop only once per Emacs session, not each time the command > is invoked. Thanks, I believe all your comments are fixed in the attached. --0000000000001d98cc05ce77bc73 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 34aafae0ab922866_0.1 RnJvbSBiYzg1ZmMzMGJhOTRiMTE2NmZjNTI2YzdiYWUyYjM3M2RjZWNhYTQ5IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5AbWFyeGlzdC5zZT4KRGF0 ZTogU2F0LCAxNiBPY3QgMjAyMSAxNDozOTowNCArMDIwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIFJlY29t bWVuZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHVzaW5nIHVjZS5lbAoKKiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsICh1Y2UtcmVwbHkt dG8tdWNlKTogUmVjb21tZW5kIGFnYWluc3QgaXRzIHVzZSBvbgp0aGUgZmlyc3QgaW52b2NhdGlv bi4gIChCdWcjNDY0NzIpCi0tLQogbGlzcC9tYWlsL3VjZS5lbCB8IDMyICsrKysrKysrKysrKysr KysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKystCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdlZCwgMzEgaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKSwgMSBk ZWxldGlvbigtKQoKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3AvbWFpbC91Y2UuZWwgYi9saXNwL21haWwvdWNl LmVsCmluZGV4IGIwNzAwNGRlMzguLjQzNDdmZjE0MDIgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBhL2xpc3AvbWFpbC91 Y2UuZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9tYWlsL3VjZS5lbApAQCAtMzAsNiArMzAsOSBAQAogOzsgdWNlLXJl cGx5LXRvLXVjZS4gIFBsZWFzZSBsZXQgbWUga25vdyBhYm91dCB5b3VyIGNoYW5nZXMgc28gSSBj YW4KIDs7IGluY29ycG9yYXRlIHRoZW0uICBJJ2QgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBpdC4KIAorOzsgTk9URTog V2UgZG9uJ3QgcmVjb21tZW5kIHVzaW5nIHRoaXMgZmVhdHVyZTsgc2VlIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIGlu Cis7OyAndWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZScgZm9yIHRoZSByZWFzb25zLgorCiA7OyBUaGUgY29tbWFu ZCB1Y2UtcmVwbHktdG8tdWNlLCBpZiBjYWxsZWQgd2hlbiB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBtZXNzYWdlCiA7 OyBidWZmZXIgaXMgYSBVQ0UsIHdpbGwgc2V0dXAgYSByZXBseSAqbWFpbCogYnVmZmVyIGFzIGZv bGxvd3MuICBJdAogOzsgc2NhbnMgdGhlIGZ1bGwgaGVhZGVycyBvZiB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSBmb3I6 IDEpIHRoZSBub3JtYWwgcmV0dXJuCkBAIC0yMTMsNiArMjE2LDggQEAgcm1haWwtYnVmZmVyCiAo ZGVjbGFyZS1mdW5jdGlvbiBybWFpbC1tYXliZS1zZXQtbWVzc2FnZS1jb3VudGVycyAicm1haWwi ICgpKQogKGRlY2xhcmUtZnVuY3Rpb24gcm1haWwtdG9nZ2xlLWhlYWRlciAicm1haWwiICgmb3B0 aW9uYWwgYXJnKSkKIAorKGRlZnZhciB1Y2UtLXVzYWdlLXdhcm5pbmctZGlzcGxheWVkIG5pbCkK KwogOzs7IyMjYXV0b2xvYWQKIChkZWZ1biB1Y2UtcmVwbHktdG8tdWNlICgmb3B0aW9uYWwgX2ln bm9yZWQpCiAgICJDb21wb3NlIGEgcmVwbHkgdG8gdW5zb2xpY2l0ZWQgY29tbWVyY2lhbCBlbWFp bCAoVUNFKS4KQEAgLTM1OCw3ICszNjMsMzIgQEAgdWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZQogICAgICAgOzsg UnVuIGhvb2tzIGJlZm9yZSB3ZSBsZWF2ZSBidWZmZXIgZm9yIGVkaXRpbmcuICBSZWFzb25hYmxl IHVzYWdlCiAgICAgICA7OyBtaWdodCBiZSB0byBzZXQgdXAgc3BlY2lhbCBrZXkgYmluZGluZ3Ms IHJlcGxhY2Ugc3RhbmRhcmQKICAgICAgIDs7IGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBpbiBtYWlsLW1vZGUsIGV0Yy4K LSAgICAgIChydW4taG9va3MgJ21haWwtc2V0dXAtaG9vayAndWNlLXNldHVwLWhvb2spKSkpCisg ICAgICAocnVuLWhvb2tzICdtYWlsLXNldHVwLWhvb2sgJ3VjZS1zZXR1cC1ob29rKSkpCisgICh1 bmxlc3MgdWNlLS11c2FnZS13YXJuaW5nLWRpc3BsYXllZAorICAgIChzZXRxIHVjZS0tdXNhZ2Ut d2FybmluZy1kaXNwbGF5ZWQgdCkKKyAgICAocG9wLXRvLWJ1ZmZlciAoZ2V0LWJ1ZmZlci1jcmVh dGUgInVjZS1yZXBseS10by11Y2Ugd2FybmluZyIpKQorICAgIChpbnNlcnQgIlwKKy0tICEhISBO T1RFICEhISAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KKwor UmVwbHlpbmcgdG8gc3BhbSBpcyBhdCBiZXN0IHBvaW50bGVzcywgYnV0IG1vc3QgbGlrZWx5IGFj dGl2ZWx5CitoYXJtZnVsLgorCistIFlvdSB3aWxsIGNvbmZpcm0gdGhhdCB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGFk ZHJlc3MgaXMgdmFsaWQsIHRodXMgZW5zdXJpbmcKKyAgeW91IGdldCBtb3JlIHNwYW0uCisKKy0g WW91IHdpbGwgbGVhayBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhbmQgb3BlbiB5b3Vyc2VsZiB1cCBmb3IgZnVydGhl cgorICBhdHRhY2suICBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgdGhleSBjb3VsZCB1c2UgeW91ciBcImdlb2xvY2F0 aW9uXCIgdG8gZmluZAorICB5b3VyIGhvbWUgYWRkcmVzcyBhbmQgcGhvbmUgbnVtYmVyLgorCist IFRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBsaWtlbHkgZmFrZS4KKworLSBZb3UgaGVscCB0aGVtIHJl ZmluZSB0aGVpciBtZXRob2RzIG9mIHNwYW1taW5nLgorCitUaGVyZWZvcmUsIHdlIHN0cm9uZ2x5 IHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGF0IHlvdSBkbyBub3QgdXNlIHRoaXMgcGFja2FnZS4KK1VzZSBhIHNwYW0g ZmlsdGVyIGluc3RlYWQsIG9yIGp1c3QgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBzcGFtLgorCistLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCisiKSkpCiAK IChkZWZ1biB1Y2UtaW5zZXJ0LXJhbnRpbmcgKCZvcHRpb25hbCBfaWdub3JlZCkKICAgIkluc2Vy dCB0ZXh0IG9mIHRoZSB1c3VhbCByZXBseSB0byBVQ0UgaW50byBjdXJyZW50IGJ1ZmZlci4iCi0t IAoyLjMwLjIKCg== --0000000000001d98cc05ce77bc73--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Oct 2021 12:33:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 16 08:33:00 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbis0-0007wy-Pq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:33:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175]:37743) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mbiry-0007wj-Sy for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:32:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id n11so8135342plf.4 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 05:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kNoag40nFlya+JA1E/mS2LIg9rUJ258xVQ+ClEA+STs=; b=E9RsF20Ke6LvH18kTfv+8Ey1dbISclkYYA5lRDAbAlQW5RSFixYx70wqZ/oPIp2uHn 9QvwWbn9nrhksi0kCQxhd9/Wh6KezD8Sq9cfTUjhLtWV0CskuU5f/mmws8b1h8k8tpQk kqRFq42WFMuZ1V8mWDOf+lACKSIjrQ+pCUSSpUXsHh0WSbUksNexbSxCbflRuyvsWnlW 3Ky0TxQnJDXd/5BqB+a0L36lbXl4CEaSWMnBXNVUjccmkBpP4Br4Bb62wKfD4euL8gVf Mi7xso3Vr1rS0O+SGpWwyA8qjjJ40Pg2lqw4W+GAotq+WTkcZ/wCPKbkR9UczRFbf5sz +wcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532aG2t0SamxePhzmMnhRqxmwBOEL5aq012igfZRFgxfIERe08nc v1xGJmIaaduJCGfxGX6Tqrzb2shVEPdXfr1EFA9SrRS1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+6n01tDFq3rQ3iHsb+lYrrJ3SPaySJKespFNwkz+qC8C+yEeA3w7mKoCwqpIO/gzQ7dSskYPk0VEnBlt9yqg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:245:: with SMTP id t5mr18620008pje.133.1634387573041; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 05:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:32:52 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 08:32:52 -0400 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=JHgbX7JyHNCaB921qcBL0+8EFfGrH7J+4P8dL_DHQyQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > This is okay for the release branch, thanks. Thanks, pushed to emacs-28 (commit 1dfe9d6285). I will send the updated patch for master shortly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2021 10:47:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 15 06:47:09 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbKk1-0007j6-KP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 06:47:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbKjy-0007id-EI for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 06:47:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41922) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbKjt-0007Bw-0l; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 06:47:01 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4587 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbKjs-0002BS-Hw; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 06:47:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 13:46:59 +0300 Message-Id: <837deek1jw.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 15 Oct 2021 03:50:17 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 03:50:17 -0500 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN > > > I'd like to see the patch for master, please. > > Please see the attached. > > * lisp/mail/uce.el: Recommend against its use. (Bug#46472) This should mention the function in which you make the change. > Do not merge to master. ??? > --- a/lisp/mail/uce.el > +++ b/lisp/mail/uce.el > @@ -358,7 +358,30 @@ uce-reply-to-uce > ;; Run hooks before we leave buffer for editing. Reasonable usage > ;; might be to set up special key bindings, replace standard > ;; functions in mail-mode, etc. > - (run-hooks 'mail-setup-hook 'uce-setup-hook)))) > + (run-hooks 'mail-setup-hook 'uce-setup-hook))) > + (pop-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "uce-reply-to-uce warning")) > + (insert "\ > +-- !!! NOTE !!! --------------------------------------------- This should pop only once per Emacs session, not each time the command is invoked. I also think we should have in the Commentary section something like this: ;; We don't recommend using this feature; see the message in ;; 'uce-reply-to-uce' for the reasons. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2021 08:50:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 15 04:50:27 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38057 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbIv5-0002KQ-71 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 04:50:27 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f176.google.com ([209.85.214.176]:34698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mbIv2-0002KC-4J for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 04:50:25 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id g5so5990439plg.1 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 01:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3oausyzpJguBArJ/RS+qOnnIq7426JX3ITEAqWMjxz4=; b=t5oRntch4SIFI/6zoJgDN7Av+nTAPttHv70JsJbNFwB9RoHxs2Q9Vsd5BgsaVlF1o6 8s6HO1H5i/Nf7w1K6SyBQzgJHGIwtTjwxPQuTdEVdP+wq3ChUOTm9SrHPjvSVbTgcC2M /300Js0Zj3aia1KodxqcSEk9TaBwx9gIFWwMnkvPA5+B4Vvgn9wv0tqofq+hyxS3WS6N IsTADEGDX+n/m8uIpTOYBDiIpr5lEuNIURJNUmrYBAoU4R9luavSIIQ9jh0bCVNkYsKa StnJlOseOUnVkbL7N1yzGjzEK1DYTS0PBemo/HnI/tnChiAsQ1ora/jLGqHML/9M/jUY +qNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5329nfg6/m60vzU5iUkqeTiWlDd+krU1o0OK4tb3hgww21KC03hC zu8n4kajS3YV56gOIjdbIsH+xUCYBsNsiZj0vTs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyBiKZKuQssfIEJvuuPcMpR4LhNptXUjYGCS9lWrYceO6f5qY+uavbw11wk0NP1ItTb1xIwEOG4OI8pjRXNxjQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:245:: with SMTP id t5mr10735078pje.133.1634287818166; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 01:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 03:50:17 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 03:50:17 -0500 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=kNYXHNZwah7_BC7=nMiJmWdDTCVmq-2TQ7U+vD5QnHg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000dce90005ce6048e9" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000dce90005ce6048e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > I'd like to see the patch for master, please. Please see the attached. --000000000000dce90005ce6048e9 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="master-0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="master-0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 1c480c4da9236766_0.1 RnJvbSBlMmMwNDY0Nzc3OThiMTVmMzA3NDg3NTI3MTZiMDM5ODZiMzU2MDgwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5AbWFyeGlzdC5zZT4KRGF0 ZTogVHVlLCAxMiBPY3QgMjAyMSAwNjozMDoyMCArMDIwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIFJlY29t bWVuZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHVzaW5nIHVjZS5lbAoKKiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsOiBSZWNvbW1lbmQg YWdhaW5zdCBpdHMgdXNlLiAgKEJ1ZyM0NjQ3MikKRG8gbm90IG1lcmdlIHRvIG1hc3Rlci4KLS0t CiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsIHwgMjUgKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrLQogMSBmaWxl IGNoYW5nZWQsIDI0IGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyksIDEgZGVsZXRpb24oLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9s aXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsIGIvbGlzcC9tYWlsL3VjZS5lbAppbmRleCBiMDcwMDRkZTM4Li4wYTBj ODI3YWNkIDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9saXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3AvbWFpbC91Y2Uu ZWwKQEAgLTM1OCw3ICszNTgsMzAgQEAgdWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZQogICAgICAgOzsgUnVuIGhv b2tzIGJlZm9yZSB3ZSBsZWF2ZSBidWZmZXIgZm9yIGVkaXRpbmcuICBSZWFzb25hYmxlIHVzYWdl CiAgICAgICA7OyBtaWdodCBiZSB0byBzZXQgdXAgc3BlY2lhbCBrZXkgYmluZGluZ3MsIHJlcGxh Y2Ugc3RhbmRhcmQKICAgICAgIDs7IGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBpbiBtYWlsLW1vZGUsIGV0Yy4KLSAgICAg IChydW4taG9va3MgJ21haWwtc2V0dXAtaG9vayAndWNlLXNldHVwLWhvb2spKSkpCisgICAgICAo cnVuLWhvb2tzICdtYWlsLXNldHVwLWhvb2sgJ3VjZS1zZXR1cC1ob29rKSkpCisgIChwb3AtdG8t YnVmZmVyIChnZXQtYnVmZmVyLWNyZWF0ZSAidWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZSB3YXJuaW5nIikpCisg IChpbnNlcnQgIlwKKy0tICEhISBOT1RFICEhISAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KKworUmVwbHlpbmcgdG8gc3BhbSBpcyBhdCBiZXN0IHBvaW50bGVz cywgYnV0IG1vc3QgbGlrZWx5IGFjdGl2ZWx5CitoYXJtZnVsLgorCistIFlvdSB3aWxsIGNvbmZp cm0gdGhhdCB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MgaXMgdmFsaWQsIHRodXMgZW5zdXJpbmcKKyAgeW91 IGdldCBtb3JlIHNwYW0uCisKKy0gWW91IHdpbGwgbGVhayBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhbmQgb3BlbiB5 b3Vyc2VsZiB1cCBmb3IgZnVydGhlcgorICBhdHRhY2suICBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgdGhleSBjb3Vs ZCB1c2UgeW91ciBcImdlb2xvY2F0aW9uXCIgdG8gZmluZAorICB5b3VyIGhvbWUgYWRkcmVzcyBh bmQgcGhvbmUgbnVtYmVyLgorCistIFRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBsaWtlbHkgZmFrZS4K KworLSBZb3UgaGVscCB0aGVtIHJlZmluZSB0aGVpciBtZXRob2RzIG9mIHNwYW1taW5nLgorCitU aGVyZWZvcmUsIHdlIHN0cm9uZ2x5IHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGF0IHlvdSBkbyBub3QgdXNlIHRoaXMg cGFja2FnZS4KK1VzZSBhIHNwYW0gZmlsdGVyIGluc3RlYWQsIG9yIGp1c3QgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBz cGFtLgorCistLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCisiKSkKIAogKGRlZnVuIHVjZS1pbnNlcnQtcmFudGluZyAoJm9wdGlvbmFs IF9pZ25vcmVkKQogICAiSW5zZXJ0IHRleHQgb2YgdGhlIHVzdWFsIHJlcGx5IHRvIFVDRSBpbnRv IGN1cnJlbnQgYnVmZmVyLiIKLS0gCjIuMzAuMgoK --000000000000dce90005ce6048e9--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2021 06:14:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 15 02:14:17 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mbGTx-0006eV-Bl for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 02:14:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54860) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbGTw-0006eH-01 for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 02:14:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbGTp-0003ll-Ej; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 02:14:09 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3458 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mbGSh-0006Mv-4U; Fri, 15 Oct 2021 02:13:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:12:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfx2ke8m.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:49 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:49 -0700 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > Document: yes. But your change modified the code as well, and more > > importantly changed how the feature works. > > This is what I suggest for emacs-28, note the "Do not merge to master" > in the commit message. This is okay for the release branch, thanks. > On master, I suggest the same patch as before, but with the updated > text that you can read here. I'd like to see the patch for master, please.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2021 20:45:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 14 16:45:58 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37206 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mb7by-0003Nf-By for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 16:45:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f44.google.com ([209.85.216.44]:47093) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mb7bw-0003NT-Kl for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 16:45:57 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f44.google.com with SMTP id pi19-20020a17090b1e5300b0019fdd3557d3so5645871pjb.5 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=837miJNW/2yJZJ8+sztpXvSVTmriC6EDxE/w5KkMOQg=; b=rNoGW9RiSn0wEAHEqG2AHP3YOqkTt9QTYCD18JZt0oOsq1VQkG4lAb10l+vJZVXFJj 8IWxN4V80PXxfONYGT7MivRIMcnHvgxb3ri665c76699cunIq3bi1x3z98Bwj0d4pRsU 89YnS1vh/dtESLcGpGNaP/VlD1dygvN2K1a+bUg8JcPT9GJG9MLRVgt0BmQHDlCDlSuA gmfwaucUaIN2pOx7h4r71ke8XRa3MK8a2qTMHmECWiujbxfi5ba7lRv3y3SHIJWtiVyA eKLSlbeqLz4qfDfz6a/uRQK3wuWbnd3JncB5YhaUEmToZoCgNFS3xjdKl7xpQNFn7mM2 GXxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xlFwtoXBFb5k+4zAXfIgMInkO3MUkxwXsYJOJ3ZXOtF7nbOor pV8fSkrnRy/Dyek0ezCVtaDS3zwQX+9G6W2ziow= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJytVHzD0j0+9KrQ73wOArUIq53R1bbJqkiMTaYbCtLA13nJJ8kQ2XVzrVmplSHv6F+tNeQRxbYdo4wAiaFjGO8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b691:b029:12d:2b6:d116 with SMTP id c17-20020a170902b691b029012d02b6d116mr6953829pls.71.1634244350810; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:49 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 13:45:49 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=J89tnDfOyTNgZ5Zws8L5zdkvRFrirHTVrSyzPMkMz5w@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000001b89705ce562af9" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000001b89705ce562af9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Document: yes. But your change modified the code as well, and more > importantly changed how the feature works. This is what I suggest for emacs-28, note the "Do not merge to master" in the commit message. On master, I suggest the same patch as before, but with the updated text that you can read here. --00000000000001b89705ce562af9 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 481020f972c9c352_0.1 RnJvbSBiYjU3NWYzOGI1NDYyNGQ5NzNlNzJhMDZhOTI3MmRiMmZiZTBjZjA2IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5AbWFyeGlzdC5zZT4KRGF0 ZTogVHVlLCAxMiBPY3QgMjAyMSAwNjozMDoyMCArMDIwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIFJlY29t bWVuZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHVzaW5nIHVjZS5lbAoKKiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsOiBSZWNvbW1lbmQg YWdhaW5zdCBpdHMgdXNlLiAgKEJ1ZyM0NjQ3MikKRG8gbm90IG1lcmdlIHRvIG1hc3Rlci4KLS0t CiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsIHwgMjEgKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hh bmdlZCwgMjEgaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKQoKZGlmZiAtLWdpdCBhL2xpc3AvbWFpbC91Y2UuZWwgYi9s aXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsCmluZGV4IGIwNzAwNGRlMzguLjBhNDg4ZTE3NmYgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBh L2xpc3AvbWFpbC91Y2UuZWwKKysrIGIvbGlzcC9tYWlsL3VjZS5lbApAQCAtMzAsNiArMzAsMjcg QEAKIDs7IHVjZS1yZXBseS10by11Y2UuICBQbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1lIGtub3cgYWJvdXQgeW91ciBj aGFuZ2VzIHNvIEkgY2FuCiA7OyBpbmNvcnBvcmF0ZSB0aGVtLiAgSSdkIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgaXQu CiAKKzs7IC0tICEhISBOT1RFICEhISAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KKzs7Cis7OyBSZXBseWluZyB0byBzcGFtIGlzIGF0IGJlc3QgcG9pbnRsZXNz LCBidXQgbW9zdCBsaWtlbHkgYWN0aXZlbHkKKzs7IGhhcm1mdWwuCis7OworOzsgLSBZb3Ugd2ls bCBjb25maXJtIHRoYXQgeW91ciBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzIGlzIHZhbGlkLCB0aHVzIGVuc3VyaW5n Cis7OyAgIHlvdSBnZXQgbW9yZSBzcGFtLgorOzsKKzs7IC0gWW91IHdpbGwgbGVhayBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBhbmQgb3BlbiB5b3Vyc2VsZiB1cCBmb3IgZnVydGhlcgorOzsgICBhdHRhY2suICBGb3Ig ZXhhbXBsZSwgdGhleSBjb3VsZCB1c2UgeW91ciBcImdlb2xvY2F0aW9uXCIgdG8gZmluZAorOzsg ICB5b3VyIGhvbWUgYWRkcmVzcyBhbmQgcGhvbmUgbnVtYmVyLgorOzsKKzs7IC0gVGhlIHNlbmRl ciBhZGRyZXNzIGlzIGxpa2VseSBmYWtlLgorOzsKKzs7IC0gWW91IGhlbHAgdGhlbSByZWZpbmUg dGhlaXIgbWV0aG9kcyBvZiBzcGFtbWluZy4KKzs7Cis7OyBUaGVyZWZvcmUsIHdlIHN0cm9uZ2x5 IHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGF0IHlvdSBkbyBub3QgdXNlIHRoaXMgcGFja2FnZS4KKzs7IFVzZSBhIHNw YW0gZmlsdGVyIGluc3RlYWQsIG9yIGp1c3QgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBzcGFtLgorOzsKKzs7IC0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0K KwogOzsgVGhlIGNvbW1hbmQgdWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZSwgaWYgY2FsbGVkIHdoZW4gdGhlIGN1 cnJlbnQgbWVzc2FnZQogOzsgYnVmZmVyIGlzIGEgVUNFLCB3aWxsIHNldHVwIGEgcmVwbHkgKm1h aWwqIGJ1ZmZlciBhcyBmb2xsb3dzLiAgSXQKIDs7IHNjYW5zIHRoZSBmdWxsIGhlYWRlcnMgb2Yg dGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UgZm9yOiAxKSB0aGUgbm9ybWFsIHJldHVybgotLSAKMi4zMC4yCgo= --00000000000001b89705ce562af9--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2021 18:50:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 12 14:50:49 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53538 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1maMrR-0005uu-0z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:50:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maMrP-0005ug-U1 for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:50:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52332) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maMrJ-0001xt-Es; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:50:41 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1725 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maMql-0001hZ-Fs; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:50:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 21:50:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83fst6oz6v.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:16 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:16 -0700 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> I'd suggest installing the change as attached on emacs-28. If that's > >> not possible, I'd like to install it on master, but add the same text to > >> the package "Commentary" section on emacs-28. > > > > On master, please. > > It is really unfortunate if we can't even document serious security and > privacy issues in Emacs 28 at this point. Document: yes. But your change modified the code as well, and more importantly changed how the feature works. > I do not see how such documentation could possibly affect the > release date. The release branch is closed for any behavior changes, except the ones that are strictly necessary to fix some bug (and even those last ones only if they are safe enough). > It is hammering home the point Please don't hammer. Say it once, clearly and concisely, and preferably without implying that the user who might want to use it has a death wish.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2021 17:29:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 12 13:29:32 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52294 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1maLae-0000Sx-BI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 13:29:32 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f173.google.com ([209.85.210.173]:37773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1maLac-0000Sb-Br for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 13:29:23 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f173.google.com with SMTP id q19so169859pfl.4 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KRX21KIRVUjzkpvVkygKWNQ8DTlXbFYZKpppg8m2ExI=; b=lqKJodhGOucDgjUEDmqVCMS7FShbQNZAUdMcKc8/KhJ/9LoTJidP3S3wjLip9Scf8Y CgmJjxh0T67ve0VGdjWRmK0aZQ1AgZmCxrVN6qTZ4dL0n4ipD33GSXOWWGui5y/Ol54z izzHnMGB66gOr8Je1m97wBb3Dke6rIR3xgUX8r55boh4R/poGbT+p5P1tzePG0/l9NqB HQwj4rgke9pKg6jQrxFHT28LIFgfiVqum9JvxIRfFfFMORcYfZLxhJ4zY3dr6s0Saw52 cvDnLDIrKiCI3HYYxZml7dO+wNddVv0nTe0Zu6kbHyVNvF7Wbk1ti8MFbewlWyYOUaVn lxZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533FMLldbPq3Ukoho4MLS7gOTCulLRuYY9fS6VRXMp1gi/mGpaSS LldBm0Bb9O0/n5a7/xy+8uk3MUI3J+fN4IqE75He1E6X X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJygknspJrnQY3hXSPNtewQ3jtZjV4Cv1eTcFiIZlQwlhAvanOEuB85vFOw8QHFvqI11IWxXZhjgQ1JZ4Gz7vuM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1586:b0:447:b30c:4a65 with SMTP id u6-20020a056a00158600b00447b30c4a65mr32726004pfk.0.1634059756749; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:16 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 10:29:16 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkwUzuMSf13Vow5E9BgK_3utdWZeeGRdV0NOvGDKaeWiA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> I'd suggest installing the change as attached on emacs-28. If that's >> not possible, I'd like to install it on master, but add the same text to >> the package "Commentary" section on emacs-28. > > On master, please. It is really unfortunate if we can't even document serious security and privacy issues in Emacs 28 at this point. I do not see how such documentation could possibly affect the release date. > And I don't see why have the same text twice. I removed the duplicates in the new patch. Did I send the wrong patch? Or maybe my suggestion was not clear: - Emacs 28: Documentation changes only. Do not merge to master. - Emacs 29: Warning only, no documentation changes. >> +- You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring >> + you get more spam. >> + >> +- You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and >> + setup), thus opening yourself up for further attack. They are >> + likely to find your IP and \"geolocation\"), which often makes >> + it trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone number. > > The first paragraph is a special case of the second one. Yes, it is also the one that immediately shows why this is counter-productive, so it is worth making into its own item. >> +- You confirm that the email did not land in your spam folder. >> + (This helps them refine their methods of spamming.) > > This is also the same as what you already said. It is subtly different: 1. Spammers can use the information that your address is valid. 2. They can also use the information that their email has been crafted in such a way that they can evade some spam filters. >> +- Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other >> + forms of criminal manipulation. Replying to spam can lead down >> + a path that you may not want to be on. > > This is the same as "open yourself to ..." paragraph. It is hammering home the point to a certain extent, sure. I think it is motivated and useful. There is no specific reason to keep this text very brief: it is much more important that it accurately conveys the dangers involved.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2021 16:44:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 12 12:44:40 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1maKtM-0004hE-JK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:44:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maKtE-0004gW-IU for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48188) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maKt8-0003Vd-7l; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:44:26 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1713 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maKt7-0005tN-9x; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:44:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 19:44:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmsap50e.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:02 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:02 -0700 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > No, please leave unnecessary changes out of emacs-28. > > Even documentation changes? These are not just documentation changes, these are changes of the semantics of the package. It's not like they are typos or inaccuracies in the documentation. And the new defcustom is definitely not a documentation change. > I'd suggest installing the change as attached on emacs-28. If that's > not possible, I'd like to install it on master, but add the same text to > the package "Commentary" section on emacs-28. On master, please. And I don't see why have the same text twice. > > So I think the same message could be usefully conveyed with much fewer > > words. > > I've tried shortening it in the attached. It is still too repetitive, IMO: > +- You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring > + you get more spam. > + > +- You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and > + setup), thus opening yourself up for further attack. They are > + likely to find your IP and \"geolocation\"), which often makes > + it trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone number. The first paragraph is a special case of the second one. > +- The sender address is likely fake. The abuse@domain is > + unlikely to be able to do anything. > + > +- You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering. > + > +- You confirm that the email did not land in your spam folder. > + (This helps them refine their methods of spamming.) This is also the same as what you already said. > +- Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other > + forms of criminal manipulation. Replying to spam can lead down > + a path that you may not want to be on. This is the same as "open yourself to ..." paragraph.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2021 16:12:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 12 12:12:11 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1maKNv-00039w-9v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:12:11 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f182.google.com ([209.85.215.182]:33550) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1maKNt-00039S-ET for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:12:09 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f182.google.com with SMTP id a73so14359846pge.0 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uSRU5grj5MKmOXFHkY4R/XKNIBaEi4Vrq6WJDwxajnY=; b=XIDhmzAG9Hzqmjv6ggkGhnZNwUa7GzInyUoUbDQ9lPr8ZUfbOpyPfEVmzELqqSYWIy hIWHzd+pUKg41a3S4akfWXYnsYVz85bNVtvigt/6TPvunCir3X2Ntq9aODtUmT2uEPYX PCgVFu8gkH8t5iDUiSDGP08fZUqSGuXql66WLi962inAHDI+fF27dqogNd/Vr1aCSRaZ PgWUSaMYO2wik0MAGCdKBT5qW6YLJWPoplRdlHrrCN9xjOy1BiBxGy9VxL96NgRCQBzJ 1IcbyC9wDxOVbJKw81Dn6+uMBCyvUuGUx+hKxmX+PKr4t03K32V9UJ9XYXWbR2C7MZST Pe6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mwCKiFuHSAOKFlwZgi7HfxSLYliCXtFlDHnmgysvifnuoro2d 35drBqGLCDK4otuYtPVbmssp20RHdJRoWz82XEI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5x2n5PvfIps0iMLnKYq0Fu2tZx3is0QXV/5kz60i5GtsfRsWaB4pVFeYc7WVjsep7+cxLhVHmlhpInO5O9qg= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:978b:0:b0:44c:abf1:a8b8 with SMTP id o11-20020aa7978b000000b0044cabf1a8b8mr32647724pfp.35.1634055123421; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:02 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:12:02 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkmnPJ90Gf00y0DjA1ywvhG=EDOk4cGXC_UvW55yujmwuEg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0000000000002ce65605ce2a1bb4" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --0000000000002ce65605ce2a1bb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > No, please leave unnecessary changes out of emacs-28. Even documentation changes? I'd suggest installing the change as attached on emacs-28. If that's not possible, I'd like to install it on master, but add the same text to the package "Commentary" section on emacs-28. > I would leave the original text intact, as dividing it into two splits > the description of the package, and the additional text is too long to > keep the beginning in mind. OK. > So I think the same message could be usefully conveyed with much fewer > words. I've tried shortening it in the attached. >> +(defcustom uce-i-want-to-use-this nil >> + "Non-nil means that you don't want the warning message about this package. >> +See `uce-reply-to-uce' for background." >> + :type 'boolean >> + :version "28.1") > > This is redundant, since users that don't want this should not load > the package. OK, I'm fine with a non-optional warning. > Why the same text again? [...] > And again? So these were the three entry points I see: `describe-package', `C-h f', and running the command. It is true that it should be enough to just show the warning when running the command. --0000000000002ce65605ce2a1bb4 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Recommend-against-using-uce.el.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: e486e9a656f7cfb6_0.1 RnJvbSA4ZGZlM2QxZThmMWQ5NTcxZTFmMTFkYTc1ZmY1OTU2ZjNiMWVmNGEwIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5AbWFyeGlzdC5zZT4KRGF0 ZTogVHVlLCAxMiBPY3QgMjAyMSAwNjozMDoyMCArMDIwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIFJlY29t bWVuZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHVzaW5nIHVjZS5lbAoKKiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsOiBSZWNvbW1lbmQg YWdhaW5zdCBpdHMgdXNlLiAgKEJ1ZyM0NjQ3MikKLS0tCiBsaXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsIHwgMzEg KysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrLQogMSBmaWxlIGNoYW5nZWQsIDMwIGluc2Vy dGlvbnMoKyksIDEgZGVsZXRpb24oLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9saXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsIGIv bGlzcC9tYWlsL3VjZS5lbAppbmRleCBiMDcwMDRkZTM4Li43ZDU5OTg2YWUyIDEwMDY0NAotLS0g YS9saXNwL21haWwvdWNlLmVsCisrKyBiL2xpc3AvbWFpbC91Y2UuZWwKQEAgLTM1OCw3ICszNTgs MzYgQEAgdWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZQogICAgICAgOzsgUnVuIGhvb2tzIGJlZm9yZSB3ZSBsZWF2 ZSBidWZmZXIgZm9yIGVkaXRpbmcuICBSZWFzb25hYmxlIHVzYWdlCiAgICAgICA7OyBtaWdodCBi ZSB0byBzZXQgdXAgc3BlY2lhbCBrZXkgYmluZGluZ3MsIHJlcGxhY2Ugc3RhbmRhcmQKICAgICAg IDs7IGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBpbiBtYWlsLW1vZGUsIGV0Yy4KLSAgICAgIChydW4taG9va3MgJ21haWwt c2V0dXAtaG9vayAndWNlLXNldHVwLWhvb2spKSkpCisgICAgICAocnVuLWhvb2tzICdtYWlsLXNl dHVwLWhvb2sgJ3VjZS1zZXR1cC1ob29rKSkpCisgIChwb3AtdG8tYnVmZmVyIChnZXQtYnVmZmVy LWNyZWF0ZSAidWNlLXJlcGx5LXRvLXVjZSB3YXJuaW5nIikpCisgIChpbnNlcnQgIi0tICEhISBO T1RFICEhISAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQorCitS ZXBseWluZyB0byBzcGFtIGlzIGF0IGJlc3QgcG9pbnRsZXNzLCBidXQgbW9zdCBsaWtlbHkgYWN0 aXZlbHkKK2hhcm1mdWwuCisKKy0gWW91IHdpbGwgY29uZmlybSB0aGF0IHlvdXIgZW1haWwgYWRk cmVzcyBpcyB2YWxpZCwgdGh1cyBlbnN1cmluZworICB5b3UgZ2V0IG1vcmUgc3BhbS4KKworLSBZ b3Ugd2lsbCBsZWFrIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIChlLmcuIG9uIHlvdXIgZW1haWwgc2VydmVyIGFuZAor ICBzZXR1cCksIHRodXMgb3BlbmluZyB5b3Vyc2VsZiB1cCBmb3IgZnVydGhlciBhdHRhY2suICBU aGV5IGFyZQorICBsaWtlbHkgdG8gZmluZCB5b3VyIElQIGFuZCBcImdlb2xvY2F0aW9uXCIpLCB3 aGljaCBvZnRlbiBtYWtlcworICBpdCB0cml2aWFsIHRvIGZpbmQgZS5nLiB5b3VyIGhvbWUgYWRk cmVzcyBhbmQgcGhvbmUgbnVtYmVyLgorCistIFRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBsaWtlbHkg ZmFrZS4gIFRoZSBhYnVzZUBkb21haW4gaXMKKyAgdW5saWtlbHkgdG8gYmUgYWJsZSB0byBkbyBh bnl0aGluZy4KKworLSBZb3Ugb3BlbiB5b3Vyc2VsZiB1cCB0byB2YXJpb3VzIGtpbmRzIG9mIHNv Y2lhbCBlbmdpbmVlcmluZy4KKworLSBZb3UgY29uZmlybSB0aGF0IHRoZSBlbWFpbCBkaWQgbm90 IGxhbmQgaW4geW91ciBzcGFtIGZvbGRlci4KKyAgKFRoaXMgaGVscHMgdGhlbSByZWZpbmUgdGhl aXIgbWV0aG9kcyBvZiBzcGFtbWluZy4pCisKKy0gU2NhbW1lcnMgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGtub3duIHRv IHRocmVhdGVuLCBpbnRpbWlkYXRlLCBhbmQgdXNlIG90aGVyCisgIGZvcm1zIG9mIGNyaW1pbmFs IG1hbmlwdWxhdGlvbi4gIFJlcGx5aW5nIHRvIHNwYW0gY2FuIGxlYWQgZG93bgorICBhIHBhdGgg dGhhdCB5b3UgbWF5IG5vdCB3YW50IHRvIGJlIG9uLgorCitUaGVyZWZvcmUsIHdlIHN0cm9uZ2x5 IHJlY29tbWVuZCB0aGF0IHlvdSBkbyBub3QgdXNlIHRoaXMgcGFja2FnZS4KK1VzZSBhIHNwYW0g ZmlsdGVyIGluc3RlYWQsIG9yIGp1c3QgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBzcGFtLgorIikpCiAKIChkZWZ1biB1 Y2UtaW5zZXJ0LXJhbnRpbmcgKCZvcHRpb25hbCBfaWdub3JlZCkKICAgIkluc2VydCB0ZXh0IG9m IHRoZSB1c3VhbCByZXBseSB0byBVQ0UgaW50byBjdXJyZW50IGJ1ZmZlci4iCi0tIAoyLjMwLjIK Cg== --0000000000002ce65605ce2a1bb4--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Oct 2021 13:52:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 12 09:52:29 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40150 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1maICj-0007jF-C0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:52:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maICe-0007is-TH for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:52:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maICY-00075l-AP; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:52:18 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2996 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1maICX-0004kh-SY; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:52:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 16:52:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83czoaqrjq.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:33:31 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmn84Lxr6d=x9nDuSd+j8U00XHHxjhyXwVStBG7vM+MBbw@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:33:31 -0700 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>, > Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > The method of "recommendation" you propose is too strong for my > > palate, sorry. In general, I believe that people should be left to > > their devices unless what they do causes harm to others. > > Second-guessing other people under the assumption that we know better > > is something I don't like doing, and don't like others doing to me. > > > > How about adding some warnings to uce.el instead, either in the > > commentary or when the main entry point is invoked for the first time > > in a session? > > Is this okay for emacs-28? No, please leave unnecessary changes out of emacs-28. > ;; The code in this file provides a semi-automatic means of replying > -;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get. Currently, it > -;; only works with Rmail and Gnus. If you would like to make it work > -;; with other mail readers, see the mail-client dependent section of > -;; uce-reply-to-uce. Please let me know about your changes so I can > -;; incorporate them. I'd appreciate it. > +;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get. I would leave the original text intact, as dividing it into two splits the description of the package, and the additional text is too long to keep the beginning in mind. > +;; -- !!! NOTE !!! -------------------------------------------- > +;; > +;; Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively > +;; harmful. > +;; > +;; - You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring > +;; you get more spam. Spammers use tricks like getting you to reply > +;; and/or clicking unsubscribe links, etc. to confirm that you > +;; should stay on their lists. > +;; > +;; - You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and setup), > +;; thus opening yourself up for further attack. More importantly, > +;; they are likely to find your IP, thus your physical location (see > +;; "geolocation"), and by combining that data with your name it > +;; should be trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone > +;; number. These two paragraphs basically says the same, so you could say the same more concisely and to the point by combining them. > +;; - You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering. > +;; This could be the first in a planned exchange where they will > +;; attempt to trick you to divulge sensitive information. > +;; > +;; - You confirm that the email landed in your inbox, and not the spam > +;; folder. This confirms to them that their current method of > +;; spamming is useful, and helps them continue. These two just reiterate what you already said. > +;; - Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other > +;; forms of criminal manipulation. Be aware that replying to spam > +;; can lead down a path that you may not want to be on. Likewise. So I think the same message could be usefully conveyed with much fewer words. > +(defcustom uce-i-want-to-use-this nil > + "Non-nil means that you don't want the warning message about this package. > +See `uce-reply-to-uce' for background." > + :type 'boolean > + :version "28.1") This is redundant, since users that don't want this should not load the package. > @@ -218,7 +266,44 @@ uce-reply-to-uce > "Compose a reply to unsolicited commercial email (UCE). > Sets up a reply buffer addressed to: the sender, his postmaster, > his abuse@ address, and the postmaster of the mail relay used. > -You might need to set `uce-mail-reader' before using this." > +You might need to set `uce-mail-reader' before using this. > + > +-- !!! NOTE !!! -------------------------------------------- > + > +Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively > +harmful. Why the same text again? > + (unless uce-i-want-to-use-this > + (pop-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "uce-reply-to-uce warning")) > + (insert "-- !!! NOTE !!! -------------------------------------------- And again?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 13 Feb
2021 16:00:01 +0200")
References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN>
<83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN>
<CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN>
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:33:31 -0700
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Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> The method of "recommendation" you propose is too strong for my
> palate, sorry. In general, I believe that people should be left to
> their devices unless what they do causes harm to others.
> Second-guessing other people under the assumption that we know better
> is something I don't like doing, and don't like others doing to me.
>
> How about adding some warnings to uce.el instead, either in the
> commentary or when the main entry point is invoked for the first time
> in a session?
Is this okay for emacs-28?
diff --git a/lisp/mail/uce.el b/lisp/mail/uce.el
index b07004de38..611181ca61 100644
--- a/lisp/mail/uce.el
+++ b/lisp/mail/uce.el
@@ -24,11 +24,53 @@
;;; Commentary:
;; The code in this file provides a semi-automatic means of replying
-;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get. Currently, it
-;; only works with Rmail and Gnus. If you would like to make it work
-;; with other mail readers, see the mail-client dependent section of
-;; uce-reply-to-uce. Please let me know about your changes so I can
-;; incorporate them. I'd appreciate it.
+;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get.
+
+;; -- !!! NOTE !!! --------------------------------------------
+;;
+;; Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively
+;; harmful.
+;;
+;; - You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring
+;; you get more spam. Spammers use tricks like getting you to reply
+;; and/or clicking unsubscribe links, etc. to confirm that you
+;; should stay on their lists.
+;;
+;; - You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and setup),
+;; thus opening yourself up for further attack. More importantly,
+;; they are likely to find your IP, thus your physical location (see
+;; "geolocation"), and by combining that data with your name it
+;; should be trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone
+;; number.
+;;
+;; - The sender address is likely fake. (For example, you might
+;; unwittingly participate in flooding someones mailbox. The
+;; abuse@domain and postmaster@domain is unlikely to be able to act
+;; on your reply.)
+;;
+;; - You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering.
+;; This could be the first in a planned exchange where they will
+;; attempt to trick you to divulge sensitive information.
+;;
+;; - You confirm that the email landed in your inbox, and not the spam
+;; folder. This confirms to them that their current method of
+;; spamming is useful, and helps them continue.
+;;
+;; - Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other
+;; forms of criminal manipulation. Be aware that replying to spam
+;; can lead down a path that you may not want to be on.
+;;
+;; Therefore, we strongly recommend that you do not use this package.
+;; Use a spam filter instead, or just delete the spam.
+;;
+;; If you still want to use it, read on.
+;;
+;; ------------------------------------------------------------
+
+;; Currently, it only works with Rmail and Gnus. If you would like to
+;; make it work with other mail readers, see the mail-client dependent
+;; section of uce-reply-to-uce. Please let me know about your changes so
+;; I can incorporate them. I'd appreciate it.
;; The command uce-reply-to-uce, if called when the current message
;; buffer is a UCE, will setup a reply *mail* buffer as follows. It
@@ -204,6 +246,12 @@ uce-subject-line
"Subject of the message that will be sent in response to a UCE."
:type 'string)
+(defcustom uce-i-want-to-use-this nil
+ "Non-nil means that you don't want the warning message about this package.
+See `uce-reply-to-uce' for background."
+ :type 'boolean
+ :version "28.1")
+
;; End of user options.
@@ -218,7 +266,44 @@ uce-reply-to-uce
"Compose a reply to unsolicited commercial email (UCE).
Sets up a reply buffer addressed to: the sender, his postmaster,
his abuse@ address, and the postmaster of the mail relay used.
-You might need to set `uce-mail-reader' before using this."
+You might need to set `uce-mail-reader' before using this.
+
+-- !!! NOTE !!! --------------------------------------------
+
+Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively
+harmful.
+
+- You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring
+ you get more spam. Spammers use tricks like getting you to reply
+ and/or clicking unsubscribe links, etc. to confirm that you
+ should stay on their lists.
+
+- You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and setup),
+ thus opening yourself up for further attack. More importantly,
+ they are likely to find your IP, thus your physical location (see
+ \"geolocation\"), and by combining that data with your name it
+ should be trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone
+ number.
+
+- The sender address is likely fake. (For example, you might
+ unwittingly participate in flooding someones mailbox. The
+ abuse@domain and postmaster@domain is unlikely to be able to act
+ on your reply.)
+
+- You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering.
+ This could be the first in a planned exchange where they will
+ attempt to trick you to divulge sensitive information.
+
+- You confirm that the email landed in your inbox, and not the spam
+ folder. This confirms to them that their current method of
+ spamming is useful, and helps them continue.
+
+- Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other
+ forms of criminal manipulation. Be aware that replying to spam
+ can lead down a path that you may not want to be on.
+
+Therefore, we strongly recommend that you do not use this package.
+Use a spam filter instead, or just delete the spam."
(interactive)
;; Start of mail-client dependent section.
(let ((message-buffer
@@ -358,7 +443,49 @@ uce-reply-to-uce
;; Run hooks before we leave buffer for editing. Reasonable usage
;; might be to set up special key bindings, replace standard
;; functions in mail-mode, etc.
- (run-hooks 'mail-setup-hook 'uce-setup-hook))))
+ (run-hooks 'mail-setup-hook 'uce-setup-hook)))
+ (unless uce-i-want-to-use-this
+ (pop-to-buffer (get-buffer-create "uce-reply-to-uce warning"))
+ (insert "-- !!! NOTE !!! --------------------------------------------
+
+Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively
+harmful.
+
+- You will confirm that your email address is valid, thus ensuring
+ you get more spam. Spammers use tricks like getting you to reply
+ and/or clicking unsubscribe links, etc. to confirm that you
+ should stay on their lists.
+
+- You will leak information (e.g. on your email server and setup),
+ thus opening yourself up for further attack. More importantly,
+ they are likely to find your IP, thus your physical location (see
+ \"geolocation\"), and by combining that data with your name it
+ should be trivial to find e.g. your home address and phone
+ number.
+
+- The sender address is likely fake. (For example, you might
+ unwittingly participate in flooding someones mailbox. The
+ abuse@domain and postmaster@domain is unlikely to be able to act
+ on your reply.)
+
+- You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering.
+ This could be the first in a planned exchange where they will
+ attempt to trick you to divulge sensitive information.
+
+- You confirm that the email landed in your inbox, and not the spam
+ folder. This confirms to them that their current method of
+ spamming is useful, and helps them continue.
+
+- Scammers have been known to threaten, intimidate, and use other
+ forms of criminal manipulation. Be aware that replying to spam
+ can lead down a path that you may not want to be on.
+
+Therefore, we strongly recommend that you do not use this package.
+Use a spam filter instead, or just delete the spam.
+
+Customize the variable `uce-i-want-to-use-this' if you do not
+want to see this message.
+")))
(defun uce-insert-ranting (&optional _ignored)
"Insert text of the usual reply to UCE into current buffer."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2021 17:26:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 06 12:26:02 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lIaga-0000wW-BZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:26:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lIagY-0000wJ-AD for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:50 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lIagS-0006vL-Np; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:44 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3307 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lIagN-0003kY-NK; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2021 19:25:26 +0200 Message-Id: <83zgzgurcp.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmmX6tS1TSfsTJzmcw0mNE8vpS7otrL0c4VaBjvKe-CJaA@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sg5azkr3.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmX6tS1TSfsTJzmcw0mNE8vpS7otrL0c4VaBjvKe-CJaA@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > I don't see how our views on what is and isn't appropriate response to > > spam should be mandatory for the few users who may disagree. > > Moving this to obsolete/ does not make it mandatory for anyone to do > anything. It is not within our power to do that; one of the freedoms > granted by the GPL is to run the program for any purpose. Moving it to obsolete/ will make using it an annoyance. If I were one of those who for some reason use this package, I'd resent that move. What I resent when done to myself I prefer we don't do to others. > AFAIK, nowhere in the GPL, the GNU Manifesto etc. does it say that it is > contrary to the spirit of free software to make useless features > obsolete. That this feature is obsolete is one opinion. Even if that opinion is predominant, it doesn't mean different opinions aren't possible, let alone legitimate. It is IMO condescending to force our views on others. > > Is there any other, more modern method we support to respond to spam? > > Yes, I listed some of them in my previous reply. And I already said most of the above in my previous replies. But we are still arguing, for some reason that evades me. Bottom line: I find obsolescence to be inappropriate for this kind of situations. If we want to warn users against responding to spam, we should find a different way of doing that. Like we do with lib-src/movemail, for example. (For some reason, ISTR I already said that as well.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2021 17:14:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 06 12:14:21 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38182 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lIaVR-0000eu-NJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:14:21 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:46867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lIaVQ-0000ei-69 for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:14:20 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id q6-20020a17090a4306b02900c42a012202so869831pjg.5 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 09:14:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X/GK9WjvqzOMjfyyM/iPgNu045M4nxmF0Pk3KWjREfM=; b=SSj0sCoEqtdnHRLjfqxL1Ibfk/N3aB82BxyLhf5kBIU00v1rq4+JT2hwtn3BR/wsq1 6rHCkGaSshqwXrli+q0DRjsTpFtokOA4xH++iXfqT4x6cHCrEvDys0x2I5W77jiHsrcm slZ3xF9KCCgSo2pEYEvOrjOxzdLYfZGvmON/F42Xcb1Ma5EPfKvpM41VCq4KcRG/ic73 gWvDzbrlOc+P71Dv1AO79+UtmtlP8/m9gOJF62p4jUcsRdYhowKAIwt6nguP9bqPZnmo Vu1ypXmZP6uYUlFkVkd3MPbChEgi7Rm6r5TJQZtHuWMv8lhEbF7sZNDFk0SKSbtuttv2 MgHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532N3lii7jdBu1eVotDyBg7q/GhX76jvpXI9eQBwyHynbhtyY5b5 wgjUk72kN335DW++2DUU0rEVE0y0Xs4N1j8YKs88uF0izNs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTTqsi1s49nFoT98DeKpftztNNhLeulYOCufe7IsPfXU71mVRbVVT1LslaBvGUrvsU6lwRquvwea/xJj5hPSo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:c249:: with SMTP id d9mr16514491pjx.104.1615050854097; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 09:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83sg5azkr3.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sg5azkr3.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmX6tS1TSfsTJzmcw0mNE8vpS7otrL0c4VaBjvKe-CJaA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > I don't see how our views on what is and isn't appropriate response to > spam should be mandatory for the few users who may disagree. Moving this to obsolete/ does not make it mandatory for anyone to do anything. It is not within our power to do that; one of the freedoms granted by the GPL is to run the program for any purpose. > This is free software, users are free to do whatever they want with > it. I can't see what this has to do with the principles of Free Software. AFAIK, nowhere in the GPL, the GNU Manifesto etc. does it say that it is contrary to the spirit of free software to make useless features obsolete. > Is there any other, more modern method we support to respond to spam? Yes, I listed some of them in my previous reply. Not that I understand why this is pertinent, as we have already established that doing that is useless and/or harmful.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2021 21:12:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 04 16:12:47 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60464 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lHvH5-00084x-G6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 16:12:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51982) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHvH1-00084h-RU for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 16:12:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42099) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHvGw-0004Km-9l; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 16:12:38 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2319 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHvGs-00061u-HR; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 16:12:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2021 23:12:16 +0200 Message-Id: <83sg5azkr3.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Glenn Morris on Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:27:29 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> <1br1ku3eji.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: stefan@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2021 14:27:29 -0500 > > Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively harmful. > Emacs having a package to help you reply to spam is at best pointless, > but most likely actively harmful. Yes, Stefan already said that up-thread. I don't see how our views on what is and isn't appropriate response to spam should be mandatory for the few users who may disagree. This is free software, users are free to do whatever they want with it. Which is also something I already said, so I don't see why do we need to reiterate the same arguments without saying anything new. > This is one of the many things that makes Emacs look antiquated. Why "antiquated"? Is there any other, more modern method we support to respond to spam? > I find the refusal to even obsolete such things demotivating for working > on Emacs. So IMO the cost for keeping such things around is non-zero. I sympathize with your feelings, but feelings aren't limited to one side in a disagreement, and you are not the only one who finds this and similar disputes demotivating. Which is why I think we should try to stay technical and not emotional.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
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From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete
References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN>
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Replying to spam is at best pointless, but most likely actively harmful.
Emacs having a package to help you reply to spam is at best pointless,
but most likely actively harmful.
This is one of the many things that makes Emacs look antiquated.
I find the refusal to even obsolete such things demotivating for working
on Emacs. So IMO the cost for keeping such things around is non-zero.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Mar 2021 03:39:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 03 22:39:31 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57384 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lHepn-00047b-KR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 22:39:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHepm-00047P-PA for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 22:39:31 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHepg-0005jq-Ma; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 22:39:24 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3783 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lHepg-00034k-2m; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 22:39:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2021 05:39:06 +0200 Message-Id: <83czwfk2p1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvh7lsorwg.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 03 Mar 2021 16:22:16 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvh7lsorwg.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: stefan@HIDDEN, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2021 16:22:16 -0500 > > > What are the reasons for moving uce.el to obsolete/ ? > > I don't think it's useful to anyone. > Moving it to `obsolete` might let us discover that I'm wrong on this > point, of course ;-) I'm against this method of "discovery", sorry. This package doesn't require any maintenance, so let's not invent any maintenance for it. We have more important things to do with our time (I hope).
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete
Message-ID: <jwvh7lsorwg.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2021 16:22:16 -0500
In-Reply-To: <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 13 Feb
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>> So how about moving it to obsolete/?
You have my vote.
> What are the reasons for moving uce.el to obsolete/ ?
I don't think it's useful to anyone.
Moving it to `obsolete` might let us discover that I'm wrong on this
point, of course ;-)
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2021 14:00:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 13 09:00:13 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33858 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAvT3-0003IM-0S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:00:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAvT0-0003Gn-R8 for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:00:11 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAvSv-0004OX-4G; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:00:05 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4579 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAvSt-00037C-6e; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:00:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:00:01 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtw8cbku.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:25:19 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:25:19 -0600 > Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > But I think we should be equally free to (strongly) recommend against > bad practices. The method of "recommendation" you propose is too strong for my palate, sorry. In general, I believe that people should be left to their devices unless what they do causes harm to others. Second-guessing other people under the assumption that we know better is something I don't like doing, and don't like others doing to me. How about adding some warnings to uce.el instead, either in the commentary or when the main entry point is invoked for the first time in a session?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2021 12:25:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 13 07:25:28 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33660 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAtzM-00053d-E6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 07:25:28 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-f42.google.com ([209.85.216.42]:34246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lAtzK-00053N-6z for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 07:25:27 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-f42.google.com with SMTP id my11so1341831pjb.1 for <46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 04:25:26 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3lz0aKaI7KukfbycogzUc+DzbRJvZeydc/mmuy+8XRc=; b=gromkUFvr/K0LYh5+HOpdsiALpwoWy9XH3Y1jEFCkYFRGx9uzYpNA99y2JVPR5HcHF z4/3b5kGZwpsER7zUEZUrBdxgZuqctaGJuo+cJy7LVYwDonOO1u8EqW/x42SKiPfNalj aeak/XtnYinvPPbW2jSF2i6enOkJqSXjkFLPQAiX/p50aWo3e/j2Cy9W+UJHQDkqj2M9 8fLB/zC1wEyRROqyVQn22eGe8e6/rnN0OIVrRb64tJbuqyrAEVcAw2PEeR+g7LqgeXf4 JiSnTqH5t3u4EImPhVnMfT7ZkkBahBF8Bc8eHxivKPNDjQLu27RCxr5e/oA99AsPwEUX pKjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533mwo+FRBWCxYm9IUq9tTEqdthsUPKvtc8JFhJZPJdzzxAwTdEa TGT0MV2c7zodupSj4Sf1R2t364dXo0vI7IxLPDI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy7XaB9VWyk7NODR6B/HoogDYtb9Ks5qWIL2qYJslgcxStu8GQWwg8osgEv6f3nTAR+GnmFyTyaJAcnmztW8qY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ee44:b029:e2:bb4a:9ffb with SMTP id 4-20020a170902ee44b02900e2bb4a9ffbmr6894606plo.39.1613219120254; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 04:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:25:19 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:25:19 -0600 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=XPCv_3UTkK=2L66hj1-q-qM-2NtdtkUO5C3jvhWcw8g@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > What you say above was always true: replying to spam bears an inherent > risk. This didn't change in any way, so how will we justify > obsoleting this package now? I think the methods for dealing with spam has developed quite a bit since 1996, so I'm not quite sure I follow this argument. The justification is that no one should waste time replying to spam; they should use a spam filter. If you are looking for strictly technical reasons for obsoleting it, of course they exist too: Anyone that wants to reply to an email using pre-written drafts can do so using skeleton, tempo, abbrev, etc. Those are better tools that cover this use-case. > I don't think our personal opinions on which is or isn't useful > practices are reasons good enough to make it harder for others to use > those practices if they so wish. Whether or not replying to spam is good or bad is not really a matter of personal opinion; it is objectively bad. You can find any number of security and privacy experts that could explain why: - You will confirm your email address is valid, ensuring you get more spam. - Sender address is probably fake. (For example, you might unwittingly participate in flooding someones mailbox. The abuse@domain and postmaster@domain is also unlikely to be able to act on your reply.) - You open yourself up to various kinds of social engineering. - You might leak information (e.g. on your email server and setup). Encouraging this bad practice by shipping uce.el puts unknowing users at risk, and promotes a bad method of dealing with spam. We should instead discourage this bad practice by moving it to obsolete/. > It isn't our prerogative to tell others what to do or not to do in > these circumstances. Anyone would of course still free to continue doing whatever they want (for example by making a copy of the obsolete libary for their own use). But I think we should be equally free to (strongly) recommend against bad practices.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Feb 2021 07:59:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 13 02:59:02 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33504 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAppW-0002OS-Es for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:59:02 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAppU-0002Nx-0s for 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:59:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45086) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAppO-0007hW-9T; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:58:54 -0500 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1975 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1lAppN-0008K7-8J; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 02:58:53 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 09:58:51 +0200 Message-Id: <83im6we6v8.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:58:53 -0600) Subject: Re: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete References: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 46472 Cc: 46472 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:58:53 -0600 > > ;; The code in this file provides a semi-automatic means of replying > ;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get. > > It sends an email to the sender, as well as the abuse and postmaster > emails for the senders domain containing a fairly polite request to be > taken off any lists. I think these days, it is pointless to reply to > spam, and no one is (or should be) doing it. It only verifies to the > spammers that your email is valid, which is useful information to them > and will do nothing but ensure you stay on their list. > > This seems like a relic from a more gentle and perhaps naive time of the > internet. Nowadays, people should not waste their time on doing that, > but instead use a spam filter. > > IOW, I think this library is useless these days. > > So how about moving it to obsolete/? What are the reasons for moving uce.el to obsolete/ ? What you say above was always true: replying to spam bears an inherent risk. This didn't change in any way, so how will we justify obsoleting this package now? I don't think our personal opinions on which is or isn't useful practices are reasons good enough to make it harder for others to use those practices if they so wish. It isn't our prerogative to tell others what to do or not to do in these circumstances. So my vote is against obsoleting this package, if the above reasoning is the only grounds for that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Feb 2021 21:59:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 12 16:59:00 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33161 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lAgSq-0000Pb-3h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:59:00 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:56604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lAgSo-0000PT-0y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:58:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49566) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lAgSn-0000th-O0 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:58:57 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f174.google.com ([209.85.214.174]:40598) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1lAgSm-0005J7-4s for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:58:57 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f174.google.com with SMTP id z7so537985plk.7 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=0n4Wwg8dP0fEgY6g0eEw1aJjrtRi9ZiKjoqbINg0vJ8=; b=qqfp8FOjq3SXhd4hq8pZDEYOckHVQSx8xlvkE96FCwybnZElUGNqdmYK1JXcuMLLS9 vMExuzlDd3ILbhQr0OzqTKnytrHjrLgdBx+8DVLkhmtMo+7xTu64mDbz19cO6iImf7tP vx+GXSo2EtgcnkbLCJnMvLxwGNNIdPZm2wynYYvWtTrsC9hR3oTye6HQzL0ggvesKzZR 8SdGYNwSVVvLHh+npadxXefUkOOPBaibxErUiRwsgAcnIjHoXqdN0GUJ4WDdXIqOpZzK GrH3478wl09pE+o6OCgli77iurWHdjcS2GyWNNS1s4ohTDRMQCfwejWpPWZV8SDbMDMN KXPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533KZkQhMY2gK7D+gmP8Pb3S1uL06P5VeyEh/JJ1INPuRTML0ESB jkEaCCOByOcdl9l6JXGOWHmuZY/UoggLv+2Odb2VoEdQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxNG5PhOdY2/l4z29OXegaQyGzR4rKsq4his0WGTgVZ98J5X9Ndqx2nVwlYOa2QQzOhMCraDR8DMvGqoya1Ju4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fe09:: with SMTP id ck9mr4545626pjb.175.1613167134494; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:58:53 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:58:53 -0600 Message-ID: <CADwFkmnimeRjU+cdPRT57BrakjADnBBS0MCO471txQmExtHyZQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.214.174; envelope-from=stefankangas@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pl1-f174.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist While digging around, I have happened upon lisp/mail/uce.el. Here is how it describes itself: ;; The code in this file provides a semi-automatic means of replying ;; to unsolicited commercial email (UCE) you might get. It sends an email to the sender, as well as the abuse and postmaster emails for the senders domain containing a fairly polite request to be taken off any lists. I think these days, it is pointless to reply to spam, and no one is (or should be) doing it. It only verifies to the spammers that your email is valid, which is useful information to them and will do nothing but ensure you stay on their list. This seems like a relic from a more gentle and perhaps naive time of the internet. Nowadays, people should not waste their time on doing that, but instead use a spam filter. IOW, I think this library is useless these days. So how about moving it to obsolete/?
Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#46472; Package emacs.
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