GNU bug report logs - #4717
23.1.50; C-M-h in bibtex mode

Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.

Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Leo <sdl.web@HIDDEN>; dated Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:35:04 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Nov 2014 23:54:42 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 11 18:54:42 2014
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57893 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1XoLGj-0001Pw-3h
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:54:41 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58432)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLGE-0001Oq-HW
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:54:12 -0500
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLG7-0007oY-5l
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:54:10 -0500
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled
 version=3.3.2
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:33935)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLG7-0007oT-31
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:54:03 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60068)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLG1-0006kk-7H
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:54:03 -0500
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLFv-0007lV-8u
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:53:57 -0500
Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:52146)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLFv-0007lJ-24
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:53:51 -0500
Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1XoLFs-0004y2-PC
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:53:48 +0100
Received: from p57acc3f6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.172.195.246])
 by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
 id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:53:48 +0100
Received: from dieter by p57acc3f6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1
 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:53:48 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
From: dieter@HIDDEN (H. Dieter Wilhelm)
Subject: Re: bug#4717: 23.1.50; C-M-h in bibtex mode
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:53:32 +0100
Organization: The Church of Emacs
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <87tx2547lv.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <8763agjs00.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.19389.592808.77535@HIDDEN>
 <87ws2sbg0k.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.57157.842686.926110@HIDDEN>
 <87k33bvt5g.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <jwv61etslxk.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Complaints-To: usenet@HIDDEN
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p57acc3f6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QNSnAP9H5vgtcafgsBY/FI5652Y=
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not
 recognized.
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address
 (bad octet value).
X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11
X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----)

Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

...

> Ideally BibTeX's C-M-h should not be rebound, and instead
> beginning-of-defun-function and end-of-defun-function should be set in
> such as way that mark-defun marks the same text as bibtex-mark-entry.

I did not yet test it good enough but your idea worked out of the box,
beginning/end-of-defun and mark-defun seem to recognise bibtex entries
already properly without further ado! :-)

>> I would like to volunteer and also argue that point 2) i. e. putting
>> point *behind* a marked element(s) and advancing the marking from point
>> is advantageous for large elements (pages, defuns, paragraphs), when the
>> marked elements might span outside of the current window and the marking
>> commands are repeated.  In this case the buffer is scrolled
>> automatically with the new boundary and possible additional marking
>> targets become visible.
>
> Of course, C-SPC M-C-e M-C-e M-C-e would work about as well in that
> case ;-)

And one better - in my opinion - C-M-S-e C-M-S-e ...  (But the two
methods are only working like C-M-h when point is already at the
beginning of a defun.)

Anyway, I understand now that it might be better to have two ways of
advancing a region: From point with navigation commands *and* from mark
with marking commands like C-M-e or M-}...

     Dieter
-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Darmstadt, Germany

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#4717; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at 4717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2014 15:38:05 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 05 10:38:05 2014
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50133 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1Xm2eq-0001KV-0g
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:38:04 -0500
Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:6870)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
 (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1Xm2ej-0001K7-KV
 for 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:37:58 -0500
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq0IAOatTlRFpY87/2dsb2JhbABWBoMOg2LSUQQCAoEcFwEBfIQDAQEDAVYjBQsLNBIUGA2IbwnLcgEBAQEGAQEBAR6QRUMHhEsFi2SEBaI3gW+EFh+CegEBAQ
X-IPAS-Result: Aq0IAOatTlRFpY87/2dsb2JhbABWBoMOg2LSUQQCAoEcFwEBfIQDAQEDAVYjBQsLNBIUGA2IbwnLcgEBAQEGAQEBAR6QRUMHhEsFi2SEBaI3gW+EFh+CegEBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,797,1406606400"; d="scan'208";a="96020723"
Received: from 69-165-143-59.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home)
 ([69.165.143.59])
 by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA;
 05 Nov 2014 10:37:56 -0500
Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848)
 id 9F29C7AB7; Wed,  5 Nov 2014 10:37:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: dieter@HIDDEN (H. Dieter Wilhelm)
Subject: Re: bug#4717: 23.1.50; C-M-h in bibtex mode
Message-ID: <jwv61etslxk.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
References: <8763agjs00.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.19389.592808.77535@HIDDEN>
 <87ws2sbg0k.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.57157.842686.926110@HIDDEN>
 <87k33bvt5g.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 10:37:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: <87k33bvt5g.fsf@HIDDEN> (H. Dieter Wilhelm's message of
 "Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:15:39 +0100")
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4717
Cc: 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong <cyd@HIDDEN>,
 Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>, sdl.web@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/)

> Summary of this thread from 2009 about the unusual behaviour of
> C-M-h (bibtex-mark-entry) in BibTeX mode
> 1) In BibTeX mode C-M-h does (still) not switch on a transient region

Indeed.

Ideally BibTeX's C-M-h should not be rebound, and instead
beginning-of-defun-function and end-of-defun-function should be set in
such as way that mark-defun marks the same text as bibtex-mark-entry.

> 4) The optional argument ALLOW-EXTEND is not explained in the doc string

It is, tho indirectly:

   Interactively, if this command is repeated
   or (in Transient Mark mode) if the mark is active,
   it marks the next defun after the ones already marked.

> I would like to volunteer and also argue that point 2) i. e. putting
> point *behind* a marked element(s) and advancing the marking from point
> is advantageous for large elements (pages, defuns, paragraphs), when the
> marked elements might span outside of the current window and the marking
> commands are repeated.  In this case the buffer is scrolled
> automatically with the new boundary and possible additional marking
> targets become visible.

Of course, C-SPC M-C-e M-C-e M-C-e would work about as well in that
case ;-)


        Stefan

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#4717; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at 4717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2014 16:15:47 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 04 11:15:47 2014
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48974 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1Xlglm-0001aG-EY
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 11:15:46 -0500
Received: from mail-la0-f53.google.com ([209.85.215.53]:55971)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80)
 (envelope-from <dieter.wilhelm@HIDDEN>) id 1Xlglj-0001a2-V7
 for 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 11:15:44 -0500
Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id mc6so1134090lab.40
 for <4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 08:15:42 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
 h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:organization:references:user-agent
 :cancel-lock:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type;
 bh=F67+gvfPqeHcSskglBgff9fWpv4jvUnCA/rEaHiZynU=;
 b=rdyII6U/DonZR17aeCysNIWCfTv4q6myUx4sIP7865ZgTihyA70mB3u2NpWVR7BbMf
 /WJJ/Pvjcc5j57Hf3QXe1kaBTpTW/rWMcEiCv9xxEoIyAjk7nccSPuT+Pwxh5rIqP/I0
 OPZDf1QWOh8lkicvkyOMYFRaerg5y7d/y0NOk1Th8SODpRIiUn78M+ThREWER51PrcTv
 ATee7L4hmAlQRkITokN7p0t5VAJKOmT00CMxUrGXCGFkSPc220A0EJLNJtmwCwIj8Bi6
 4PiUZRdDo6JL7Thk+P1uxF1uBZi+voZYBPMvKvLbNpVp7XH1emgbsDwJ0NM750zi+d37
 GJeA==
X-Received: by 10.112.168.39 with SMTP id zt7mr12047611lbb.72.1415117742804;
 Tue, 04 Nov 2014 08:15:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from vsl28t2g.ww011 (p4FD4EC7A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.212.236.122])
 by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z1sm309278lad.40.2014.11.04.08.15.41
 for <multiple recipients>
 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Tue, 04 Nov 2014 08:15:41 -0800 (PST)
From: dieter@HIDDEN (H. Dieter Wilhelm)
To: "Roland Winkler" <winkler@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#4717: 23.1.50; C-M-h in bibtex mode
Organization: The Church of Emacs
References: <8763agjs00.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.19389.592808.77535@HIDDEN>
 <87ws2sbg0k.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <19163.57157.842686.926110@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:r5swzsXbMyn+JwSgZE8gHE/5kM4=
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:15:39 +0100
Message-ID: <87k33bvt5g.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 4717
Cc: 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Chong Yidong <cyd@HIDDEN>,
 sdl.web@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)

"Roland Winkler" <Roland.Winkler@HIDDEN> writes:

> On Sun Oct 18 2009 Chong Yidong wrote:
>> > mark-defun does not put point where beginning-of-defun puts it. But
>> > if there is an empty line preceding the beginning-of-defun location,
>> > mark-defun will put point there. Why? The docstring of mark-defun
>> > does not explain this behavior.
>> 
>> I don't know the answer.  This behavior dates to 1993, though, so I
>> don't think it's feasible to change it for Lisp mode.

Summary of this thread from 2009 about the unusual behaviour of
C-M-h (bibtex-mark-entry) in BibTeX mode

1) In BibTeX mode C-M-h does (still) not switch on a transient region
2) Point is left at the end of an entry contrary to the behaviour in
   other modes
3) The range of the marked region is different to a range when applying
   C-M-a C-SPC C-M-e
4) The optional argument ALLOW-EXTEND is not explained in the doc string


and C-M-h (mark-defun) in Lisp mode

5) Does mark an empty line before a defun (when there is an empty line)
   whereas C-M-a places point before an empty line.
6) The optional argument is not explained in the doc string

> Agreed, changing it will probably break something. Could it be that
> the empty line was included so that in a sequence of defuns (each
> normally separated by one empty line) mark-defun could by used, for
> example in combination with kill-region and yank to move around
> defuns in a simple way?

My feeling is that it is such a minor point that nobody really cared to
correct/align this.

Moreover
6) C-M-h is lacking an optional argument to mark ARG defuns compared
   with all the other marking commands

> No matter whether something like that or anything else was the
> actual reason for implementing this behavior, the docstring should
> always document the actual behavior

I would like to volunteer and also argue that point 2) i. e. putting
point *behind* a marked element(s) and advancing the marking from point
is advantageous for large elements (pages, defuns, paragraphs), when the
marked elements might span outside of the current window and the marking
commands are repeated.  In this case the buffer is scrolled
automatically with the new boundary and possible additional marking
targets become visible.

  Dieter
-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Darmstadt, Germany

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#4717; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 4717@HIDDEN:

Received: (at 4717) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 19 Oct 2009 03:38:51 +0000
From rwinkler@HIDDEN Sun Oct 18 20:38:51 2009
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02
	(2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available.
	hammytokens:Tokens not available.
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=none autolearn=ham
	version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02
Received: from tfkpsv.physik.uni-erlangen.de (tfkpsv.physik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.164.197])
	by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9J3cn4r018332
	for <4717@HIDDEN>; Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:38:51 -0700
Received: from regnitz.physics.niu.edu (adsl-68-77-29-3.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net [68.77.29.3])
	by tfkpsv.physik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3CE84B34;
	Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:38:48 +0200 (CEST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <19163.57157.842686.926110@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:38:45 -0500
From: "Roland Winkler" <Roland.Winkler@HIDDEN>
To: Chong Yidong <cyd@HIDDEN>
Cc: 4717 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: 23.1.50; C-M-h in bibtex mode
In-Reply-To: <87ws2sbg0k.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <8763agjs00.fsf@HIDDEN>
	<19163.19389.592808.77535@HIDDEN>
	<87ws2sbg0k.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Mailer: VM 8.2 trial under 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu)

On Sun Oct 18 2009 Chong Yidong wrote:
> > mark-defun does not put point where beginning-of-defun puts it. But
> > if there is an empty line preceding the beginning-of-defun location,
> > mark-defun will put point there. Why? The docstring of mark-defun
> > does not explain this behavior.
> 
> I don't know the answer.  This behavior dates to 1993, though, so I
> don't think it's feasible to change it for Lisp mode.

Agreed, changing it will probably break something. Could it be that
the empty line was included so that in a sequence of defuns (each
normally separated by one empty line) mark-defun could by used, for
example in combination with kill-region and yank to move around
defuns in a simple way?

No matter whether something like that or anything else was the
actual reason for implementing this behavior, the docstring should
always document the actual behavior

Roland

Acknowledgement sent to "Roland Winkler" <Roland.Winkler@HIDDEN>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>. Full text available.