GNU bug report logs - #48002
Gnu design flaw fixes hindered by Gnu (sexism?) biases

Message received at 48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at 48002) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2022 09:05:19 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 21 04:05:19 2022
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1nM4dD-0000tP-LM
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 04:05:19 -0500
Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:46588)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1nM4dC-0000tA-3A
 for 48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 04:05:19 -0500
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9EF160103
 for <48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032)
 with ESMTP id Rd9WkDhUEv2z for <48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>;
 Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27AE7160106
 for <48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu
Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026)
 with ESMTP id sg8TsV0JmAZ0 for <48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>;
 Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com
 [172.91.119.151])
 by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06B57160103
 for <48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <b7f1e9b6-cc59-7368-a08d-e570f57640d6@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 01:05:10 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/91.5.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: 48002 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Subject: unmerging separate bug reports about cp etc.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48002
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

A while back I merged GNU Coreutils bug reports 47059, 47883, and 48002. 
I now see that that was a mistake as they're about three different 
issues. So, I'm unmerging the bug reports and will look at each separately.

The main topic of bug#48002 is not a bug in Coreutils; it's about the 
bug-reporting process, and this would better be addressed in another 
forum. One possible forum would be gnu-misc-discuss@HIDDEN

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Apr 2021 20:04:58 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Apr 24 16:04:58 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1laOWQ-0006Tn-E0
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 16:04:58 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59928)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1laOWN-0006Td-Cw
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 16:04:57 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34492)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>)
 id 1laOWN-0002AF-1x; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 16:04:55 -0400
Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:46636
 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>)
 id 1laOWK-0008Uo-Jz; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 16:04:54 -0400
Received: from [192.168.3.12] (Athenae [192.168.3.12])
 by Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id
 13OK4LWC057924; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:04:23 -0700
Message-ID: <608479A6.2000701@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:03:50 -0700
From: L A Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Subject: Gnu design flaw fixes hindered by Gnu (sexism?) biases
References: <0910fdcb-ec97-45e2-9128-4bbb369d74d9@HIDDEN>
 <31aa9fcc-4be5-7a13-4682-3c320b46091d@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <31aa9fcc-4be5-7a13-4682-3c320b46091d@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=173.164.175.65; envelope-from=coreutils@HIDDEN;
 helo=Ishtar.sc.tlinx.org
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_bar: -
X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
Cc: Coreutils <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>, Peter van Dijk <peter@HIDDEN>
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)

On 2021/04/21 19:11, Paul Eggert wrote:
> On 4/18/21 10:46 AM, Peter van Dijk wrote:
>> While the manual (but not the manpage) mentions the data loss, I 
>> think it would be great if sort did not have this problem at all, and 
>> I think the OpenGroup text also says it should not have this problem.
>>  I looked around, and a lot of software does get this right (by opening a randomly-named temp file to write to, and only moving it into place when it is written successfuly) - GNU sed -i, OpenBSD sort, and surely there are more. As a bonus, doing this would also make the `-o someinputfile -m` case safe.
>>
>
> I don't know of any 'sort' implementation that does not have the 
> problem at all. ...
Nevertheless, it is the same problem as reported _1.5_months_
ago where no one had time to look at the same design flaw
in gnu-coreutils implementation of 'cp' (bug#47059).

That bug, still untriaged, had the same suggested solution:

   "When creating a link to a local file, I
    first create the link to a temporary name to ensure
    I have appropriate access (or that its not
    cross-linked in this case)."

At that time the bug was only reported against 'cp', but it
seems that not testing for final location writeability is
a gnu-bug stemming from mono-culture development where
outside ideas and bug reports tend to be ignored.

The previous, similar bug in 'cp' I reported was ignored for
1.5-2 YEARS, before a large enough corporation lost enough
data for GNU to pay attention.  Though in this case, did
the report against 'sort' get noticed because the reporter
wasn't female?  Perhaps others within GNU have inculcated
the biases of RMS and my feelings of tolerance were naive
(wouldn't be the first time).


That bug was left untriaged
that was left untriaged with bug#47059.  And it is the same
solution -- opening a randomly-named temp file to write to
and only performing final actions when writeability of
the destination is confirmed.
>
> Also, I don't see where the Open Group spec says what you're saying. 
> On the contrary, the spec merely says that '-o output' should cause 
> output to be sent to the output file. If there are multiple hard links 
> to the output file, this suggests 'sort' should update the output 
> file's contents without breaking any hard links. Admittedly the Open 
> Group spec is a bit vague in this area, but I certainly don't see 
> anything implying that GNU 'sort' does not conform to POSIX in this area.
>
> FreeBSD 'sort' has a problem, in that 'sort -o A B' preserves all hard 
> links to A's file, but 'sort -o A A' does not because it breaks the 
> link from A. That's confusing.
>
> Traditional Unix 'sort -o A' behaves the way GNU 'sort' does; it 
> preserves all hard links to A's file. So there is a compatibility 
> argument for doing things the way GNU 'sort' does them, even if that 
> might lead to more data loss in rare cases.
>
>
>