GNU bug report logs - #48793
Make guix room available over matrix

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org
Subject: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:42:47 +0000

Hi There,

I saw that guix shifted from freenode to libera (due to freenode 
incident), Well it turns that libera just another freenode when it comes 
to Anti-Tor/Anti-Privacy:

https://github.com/Libera-Chat/libera-chat.github.io/issues/63

Since Guix as well jumped under libera umbrella it has the same issue 
which no one can talk to guix irc room unless hes using clearnet IP or 
VPN ip then shift to Tor (long run to just talk about couple of issues 
with good privacy)

As better alternative to whole IRC thing is to use Matrix and you can 
bridge the two rooms (matrix <-> IRC) with that no headache of 
registration and blocked connections...etc

ThX!

Message #8 received at 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
To: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>,48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 16:22:57 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi BoOod,

You can use the bridge at #guix:libera.chat I think.

Le 2 juin 2021 14:42:47 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>Hi There,
>
>I saw that guix shifted from freenode to libera (due to freenode 
>incident), Well it turns that libera just another freenode when it
>comes 
>to Anti-Tor/Anti-Privacy:
>
>https://github.com/Libera-Chat/libera-chat.github.io/issues/63
>
>Since Guix as well jumped under libera umbrella it has the same issue 
>which no one can talk to guix irc room unless hes using clearnet IP or 
>VPN ip then shift to Tor (long run to just talk about couple of issues 
>with good privacy)
>
>As better alternative to whole IRC thing is to use Matrix and you can 
>bridge the two rooms (matrix <-> IRC) with that no headache of 
>registration and blocked connections...etc
>
>ThX!

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #11 received at 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
To: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 22:32:56 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi bo0od,

The #guix channel is already bridged over Matrix.  Is there a bug 
in the bridge?  It's better to report that directly to Libera.

Otherwise, this sounds like it belongs in the existing thread on 
guix-devel@ where everyone can suggest and discuss their favourite 
protocol, not on the Guix bug tracker.

Kind regards,

T G-R

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #17 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 21:39:26 +0000

> The #guix channel is already bridged over Matrix.  Is there a bug in the
> bridge?  It's better to report that directly to Libera.

Im not sure im following, Does guix has its own room over matrix or not? 
if yes what is it if not thats why i opened this ticket.

> Otherwise, this sounds like it belongs in the existing thread on
> guix-devel@ where everyone can suggest and discuss their favourite
> protocol, not on the Guix bug tracker.

ah i see, didnt know that i should close this and report there or 
continue here ?

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
> Hi bo0od,
> 
> The #guix channel is already bridged over Matrix.  Is there a bug in the 
> bridge?  It's better to report that directly to Libera.
> 
> Otherwise, this sounds like it belongs in the existing thread on 
> guix-devel@ where everyone can suggest and discuss their favourite 
> protocol, not on the Guix bug tracker.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> T G-R

Message #23 received at 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 21:46:19 +0000

I dont believe this will make libera.chat accept Tor connection for 
registration or accessing their IRC rooms.

guix should have matrix room within matrix (so as within IRC) not IRC 
room accessed by matrix client.



Julien Lepiller:
> Hi BoOod,
> 
> You can use the bridge at #guix:libera.chat I think.
> 
> Le 2 juin 2021 14:42:47 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>> Hi There,
>>
>> I saw that guix shifted from freenode to libera (due to freenode
>> incident), Well it turns that libera just another freenode when it
>> comes
>> to Anti-Tor/Anti-Privacy:
>>
>> https://github.com/Libera-Chat/libera-chat.github.io/issues/63
>>
>> Since Guix as well jumped under libera umbrella it has the same issue
>> which no one can talk to guix irc room unless hes using clearnet IP or
>> VPN ip then shift to Tor (long run to just talk about couple of issues
>> with good privacy)
>>
>> As better alternative to whole IRC thing is to use Matrix and you can
>> bridge the two rooms (matrix <-> IRC) with that no headache of
>> registration and blocked connections...etc
>>
>> ThX!
> 

Message #26 received at 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
To: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>,48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2021 17:50:05 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I don't understand. There's #guix:matrix.org too, but it's not bridged to IRC.

Le 2 juin 2021 17:46:19 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>I dont believe this will make libera.chat accept Tor connection for 
>registration or accessing their IRC rooms.
>
>guix should have matrix room within matrix (so as within IRC) not IRC 
>room accessed by matrix client.
>
>
>
>Julien Lepiller:
>> Hi BoOod,
>> 
>> You can use the bridge at #guix:libera.chat I think.
>> 
>> Le 2 juin 2021 14:42:47 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>>> Hi There,
>>>
>>> I saw that guix shifted from freenode to libera (due to freenode
>>> incident), Well it turns that libera just another freenode when it
>>> comes
>>> to Anti-Tor/Anti-Privacy:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Libera-Chat/libera-chat.github.io/issues/63
>>>
>>> Since Guix as well jumped under libera umbrella it has the same
>issue
>>> which no one can talk to guix irc room unless hes using clearnet IP
>or
>>> VPN ip then shift to Tor (long run to just talk about couple of
>issues
>>> with good privacy)
>>>
>>> As better alternative to whole IRC thing is to use Matrix and you
>can
>>> bridge the two rooms (matrix <-> IRC) with that no headache of
>>> registration and blocked connections...etc
>>>
>>> ThX!
>> 

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #29 received at 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 21:57:28 +0000

Its official? i never saw it in the docs thought its not official one.

bridge life could have been easier if guix irc migrated to OFTC, For 
libera still not yet done but work in progress:

https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/1324

Julien Lepiller:
> I don't understand. There's #guix:matrix.org too, but it's not bridged to IRC.
> 
> Le 2 juin 2021 17:46:19 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>> I dont believe this will make libera.chat accept Tor connection for
>> registration or accessing their IRC rooms.
>>
>> guix should have matrix room within matrix (so as within IRC) not IRC
>> room accessed by matrix client.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julien Lepiller:
>>> Hi BoOod,
>>>
>>> You can use the bridge at #guix:libera.chat I think.
>>>
>>> Le 2 juin 2021 14:42:47 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>>>> Hi There,
>>>>
>>>> I saw that guix shifted from freenode to libera (due to freenode
>>>> incident), Well it turns that libera just another freenode when it
>>>> comes
>>>> to Anti-Tor/Anti-Privacy:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/Libera-Chat/libera-chat.github.io/issues/63
>>>>
>>>> Since Guix as well jumped under libera umbrella it has the same
>> issue
>>>> which no one can talk to guix irc room unless hes using clearnet IP
>> or
>>>> VPN ip then shift to Tor (long run to just talk about couple of
>> issues
>>>> with good privacy)
>>>>
>>>> As better alternative to whole IRC thing is to use Matrix and you
>> can
>>>> bridge the two rooms (matrix <-> IRC) with that no headache of
>>>> registration and blocked connections...etc
>>>>
>>>> ThX!
>>>
> 

Message #32 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
To: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 00:20:05 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

bo0od 写道：
> Im not sure im following, Does guix has its own room over matrix 
> or
> not? if yes what is it

There's #guix:libera.chat that Julien already pointed out.  It's a 
bridge to the official #guix channel at Libera.  Messages are sent 
back & forth between Libera and matrix.org.  I don't know if 
matrix.org supports Tor.

There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix 
channel/room, but it is not managed by the project and fewer core 
contributors lurk there.

> if not thats why i opened this ticket.

It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix 
Mastodon either.

Kind regards,

T G-R

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #38 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bone Baboon <bone.baboon <at> disroot.org>
To: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>,
 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 11:34:53 -0400

bo0od writes:

> if guix irc migrated to OFTC

OFTC has a problematic registration process.

In the registration process they encourage the use of Google captcha.
Further there is no mention during the registration process of any
alternative account registration options.

The use of Google captcha is problematic because of freedom, privacy,
ethical and philosophical reasons.  There is a freedom problem because
JavaScript has to be enabled and Google captcha is not free software.
There is a privacy issue demonstrated by the Tor browser documentation's
security settings section which says that JavaScript is disabled when
the safest setting is
used. <https://tb-manual.torproject.org/security-settings/>  Then there
is an ethical issue of people doing free labor for Google.  Then there
is a philosophical issue if that free labor is used to train artificial
intelligence (Google is working on artificial intelligence
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google>) as this raises the issue of
artificial intelligence safety.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem>

Message #44 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Bone Baboon <bone.baboon <at> disroot.org>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>,
 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 19:52:57 +0000

> In the registration process they encourage the use of Google captcha.

Thats true, but comparing google captcha which only need to allow JS 
while using Tor VS you cant even access or register unless you use real 
IP address = No question google captcha has less privacy impact in this 
scenario.

OFTC was an example, Hackint and other IRC provider provide as well Tor 
access without even these boundaries.

So whether changing the IRC server or having matrix room bridged to IRC 
both solve the problem.

Bone Baboon:
> bo0od writes:
> 
>> if guix irc migrated to OFTC
> 
> OFTC has a problematic registration process.
> 
> In the registration process they encourage the use of Google captcha.
> Further there is no mention during the registration process of any
> alternative account registration options.
> 
> The use of Google captcha is problematic because of freedom, privacy,
> ethical and philosophical reasons.  There is a freedom problem because
> JavaScript has to be enabled and Google captcha is not free software.
> There is a privacy issue demonstrated by the Tor browser documentation's
> security settings section which says that JavaScript is disabled when
> the safest setting is
> used. <https://tb-manual.torproject.org/security-settings/>  Then there
> is an ethical issue of people doing free labor for Google.  Then there
> is a philosophical issue if that free labor is used to train artificial
> intelligence (Google is working on artificial intelligence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google>) as this raises the issue of
> artificial intelligence safety.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_control_problem>
> 

Message #47 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
Cc: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2021 19:39:34 +0000

It does support Tor but currently matrix not yet fully support libera.

> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room,
> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk
> there.

Yeah thats the bad part of it which need to get bridged to the official 
room in libera.

> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix Mastodon
> either.

Bug in a way that guix doesnt provide or support privacy entrance to 
their chat, Guix lack it due to their choice of libera IRC server. Thats 
why i opened this ticket in the hope to have better future for direct 
chatting and try to see how we can fix this situation.

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
> bo0od 写道：
>> Im not sure im following, Does guix has its own room over matrix or
>> not? if yes what is it
> 
> There's #guix:libera.chat that Julien already pointed out.  It's a 
> bridge to the official #guix channel at Libera.  Messages are sent back 
> & forth between Libera and matrix.org.  I don't know if matrix.org 
> supports Tor.
> 
> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room, 
> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk 
> there.
> 
>> if not thats why i opened this ticket.
> 
> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix Mastodon 
> either.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> T G-R

Message #56 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>,
 Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
Cc: 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 17:18:34 -0400

Le 3 juin 2021 15:39:34 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>It does support Tor but currently matrix not yet fully support libera.
>
>> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room,
>> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk
> > there.
>
>Yeah thats the bad part of it which need to get bridged to the official
>
>room in libera.

Again, I don't understand why #guix:libera.chat is bad. I joined it with my matrix account from a different home server. Why can't you?

>
>> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix
>Mastodon
> > either.
>
>Bug in a way that guix doesnt provide or support privacy entrance to 
>their chat, Guix lack it due to their choice of libera IRC server.
>Thats 
>why i opened this ticket in the hope to have better future for direct 
>chatting and try to see how we can fix this situation.
>
>Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
>> bo0od 写道：
>>> Im not sure im following, Does guix has its own room over matrix or
>>> not? if yes what is it
>> 
>> There's #guix:libera.chat that Julien already pointed out.  It's a 
>> bridge to the official #guix channel at Libera.  Messages are sent
>back 
>> & forth between Libera and matrix.org.  I don't know if matrix.org 
>> supports Tor.
>> 
>> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room,
>
>> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk
>
>> there.
>> 
>>> if not thats why i opened this ticket.
>> 
>> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix
>Mastodon 
>> either.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> T G-R

Message #62 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net>
To: Julien Lepiller <julien <at> lepiller.eu>, bug-guix <at> gnu.org,
 Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me <at> tobias.gr>
Cc: 48793-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 48793 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48793: Make guix room available over matrix
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 22:35:18 +0000

> Again, I don't understand why #guix:libera.chat is bad. I joined it 
with my matrix account from a different home server. Why can't you?

There was a bug within matrix bridge to libera.chat (you can check guix 
channel logs when it got fixed)

Now this issue is resolved :)

Julien Lepiller:
> 
> 
> Le 3 juin 2021 15:39:34 GMT-04:00, bo0od <bo0od <at> riseup.net> a écrit :
>> It does support Tor but currently matrix not yet fully support libera.
>>
>>> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room,
>>> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk
>>> there.
>>
>> Yeah thats the bad part of it which need to get bridged to the official
>>
>> room in libera.
> 
> Again, I don't understand why #guix:libera.chat is bad. I joined it with my matrix account from a different home server. Why can't you?
> 
>>
>>> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix
>> Mastodon
>>> either.
>>
>> Bug in a way that guix doesnt provide or support privacy entrance to
>> their chat, Guix lack it due to their choice of libera IRC server.
>> Thats
>> why i opened this ticket in the hope to have better future for direct
>> chatting and try to see how we can fix this situation.
>>
>> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice:
>>> bo0od 写道：
>>>> Im not sure im following, Does guix has its own room over matrix or
>>>> not? if yes what is it
>>>
>>> There's #guix:libera.chat that Julien already pointed out.  It's a
>>> bridge to the official #guix channel at Libera.  Messages are sent
>> back
>>> & forth between Libera and matrix.org.  I don't know if matrix.org
>>> supports Tor.
>>>
>>> There's *also* #guix:matrix.org.  It is a ‘real’ Matrix channel/room,
>>
>>> but it is not managed by the project and fewer core contributors lurk
>>
>>> there.
>>>
>>>> if not thats why i opened this ticket.
>>>
>>> It's not really a bug, though, is it?  There's no official Guix
>> Mastodon
>>> either.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> T G-R

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