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Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:40:17 -0400 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <YMitwaAP7F4T8WpY@HIDDEN> References: <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMd01e33raUWNh9P@HIDDEN> <87h7hztqlq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87h7hztqlq.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 11:38:25AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Hi, > > Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis: > > > But it has been complicated by the broader context, about which I > > already shared my uncharitable interpretation, and that's a shame. Now > > there is a big discussion about it. > > The “broader context” didn’t play a role in my comments, really. :-) I'm sorry for suggesting it! I think I am too sensitive about these matters.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2021 09:38:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 15 05:38:36 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lt5Wm-0003XB-Fe for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:38:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Wl-0003Wz-Lz for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:38:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47930) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Wd-0006sX-Fq; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:38:27 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=59060 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Wc-000715-Hq; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:38:27 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd References: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMd01e33raUWNh9P@HIDDEN> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 27 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:38:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YMd01e33raUWNh9P@HIDDEN> (Leo Famulari's message of "Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:25:09 -0400") Message-ID: <87h7hztqlq.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis: > But it has been complicated by the broader context, about which I > already shared my uncharitable interpretation, and that's a shame. Now > there is a big discussion about it. The =E2=80=9Cbroader context=E2=80=9D didn=E2=80=99t play a role in my comm= ents, really. :-) Tony, could you send an updated patch following the suggestions Efraim and I made? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jun 2021 09:29:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 15 05:29:26 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48418 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lt5Nu-0003I8-Nw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:29:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57228) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Nt-0003Hw-Fp for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:29:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Nm-0008W9-3z; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:29:18 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=59052 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lt5Nl-0007ZG-PF; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:29:17 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd References: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMhKPHvWA32LwFve@3900XT> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 27 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:29:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YMhKPHvWA32LwFve@3900XT> (Efraim Flashner's message of "Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:35:40 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1h3tr10.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Tony O <me@HIDDEN>, Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis: > This actually works better for on Guix System than on a foreign distro > > (ins)efraim@3900XT ~/workspace/guix$ /gnu/store/khpdv70slxmvrla1q8lnkkq1c= xv9pm75-systemd-247/bin/loginctl -H g4 list-sessions > SESSION UID USER SEAT TTY > 1 118 sddm seat0 > 12683 1000 efraim seat0 tty2 > 13 1000 efraim seat0 tty3 > 15005 1000 efraim pts/2 > > 4 sessions listed. > (ins)efraim@3900XT ~/workspace/guix$ loginctl -H g4 list-sessions > bash: line 1: elogind-stdio-bridge: command not found D=E2=80=99oh! How=E2=80=99s that possible? We should also fix (upgrade?) = elogin. > That said, the package definitely needs some work. The source URI is > autogenerated, we shouldn't need glibc as an input, and I'm guessing > that setting all the config directories to out would cause problems. Not > to mention the extra bits that don't add any value to Guix System. Yes, and also Marius=E2=80=99 copyright line should be preserved. Tony, could you address these issues and send an updated patch? Thanks, and sorry for the lengthy discussion. :-) Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
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From: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd
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On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 02:30:10PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis:
>=20
> > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:44:47PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote:
> >> It is probably still a somewhat long and bumpy road, but in my personal
> >> opinion one that has an end.
> >> @lfam, ludo, efraim: WDYT?
> >
> > To me, it seems like we are applying a slightly higher standard to this
> > patch than to other submissions of complex packages whose functionality
> > is difficult to evaluate.
>=20
> No no, I was careful to apply the same standards. :-) My main
> question is whether it=E2=80=99s usable at all:
>=20
> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#1
>=20
> Tony=E2=80=99s use case has to do with satisfying the dependencies of a
> binary-only proprietary executable:
>=20
> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#2
>=20
> To me, that use case alone isn=E2=80=99t enough to justify maintaining sy=
stemd
> in Guix proper.
>=20
> However, if, as Efraim suggests, a systemd package has some uses, at
> least on foreign distros, then that=E2=80=99s fine with me. It=E2=80=99s=
a very narrow
> use case (running =E2=80=98loginctl=E2=80=99 on a foreign distro), but wh=
y not.
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Ludo=E2=80=99.
This actually works better for on Guix System than on a foreign distro
(ins)efraim@3900XT ~/workspace/guix$ /gnu/store/khpdv70slxmvrla1q8lnkkq1cxv=
9pm75-systemd-247/bin/loginctl -H g4 list-sessions
SESSION UID USER SEAT TTY
1 118 sddm seat0
12683 1000 efraim seat0 tty2
13 1000 efraim seat0 tty3
15005 1000 efraim pts/2
4 sessions listed.
(ins)efraim@3900XT ~/workspace/guix$ loginctl -H g4 list-sessions
bash: line 1: elogind-stdio-bridge: command not found
That said, the package definitely needs some work. The source URI is
autogenerated, we shouldn't need glibc as an input, and I'm guessing
that setting all the config directories to out would cause problems. Not
to mention the extra bits that don't add any value to Guix System.
--=20
Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D =
=D7=A4=D7=9C=D7=A9=D7=A0=D7=A8
GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
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Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:25:09 -0400 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <YMd01e33raUWNh9P@HIDDEN> References: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 02:30:10PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > No no, I was careful to apply the same standards. :-) My main > question is whether it’s usable at all: > > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#1 > > Tony’s use case has to do with satisfying the dependencies of a > binary-only proprietary executable: > > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#2 > > To me, that use case alone isn’t enough to justify maintaining systemd > in Guix proper. It's true, that's not really a good reason to add the package. There are probably some existing Guix packages with a similar use case, but nobody ever said it out loud. It's a lesson in the value of discretion, I suppose. > However, if, as Efraim suggests, a systemd package has some uses, at > least on foreign distros, then that’s fine with me. It’s a very narrow > use case (running ‘loginctl’ on a foreign distro), but why not. > > Thoughts? To me, it's a simple scenario: We received a contribution to add a popular free software program. But it has been complicated by the broader context, about which I already shared my uncharitable interpretation, and that's a shame. Now there is a big discussion about it. I would add the package. We should feel free to remove packages (especially leaf packages) that aren't building or are far behind the upstream release schedule if nobody is trying to fix them. We don't have to assume a burden of maintenance.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jun 2021 12:30:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 14 08:30:28 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsljY-0002WT-1Z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:30:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsljW-0002WG-Eb for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:30:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42588) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsljN-0003ov-NZ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:30:17 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=58444 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsljM-0001uC-Sf; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:30:17 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd References: <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 26 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:30:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> (Leo Famulari's message of "Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:35:44 -0400") Message-ID: <877diwy6gd.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> skribis: > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:44:47PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: >> It is probably still a somewhat long and bumpy road, but in my personal >> opinion one that has an end. >> @lfam, ludo, efraim: WDYT? > > To me, it seems like we are applying a slightly higher standard to this > patch than to other submissions of complex packages whose functionality > is difficult to evaluate. No no, I was careful to apply the same standards. :-) My main question is whether it=E2=80=99s usable at all: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#1 Tony=E2=80=99s use case has to do with satisfying the dependencies of a binary-only proprietary executable: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/48924#2 To me, that use case alone isn=E2=80=99t enough to justify maintaining syst= emd in Guix proper. However, if, as Efraim suggests, a systemd package has some uses, at least on foreign distros, then that=E2=80=99s fine with me. It=E2=80=99s a= very narrow use case (running =E2=80=98loginctl=E2=80=99 on a foreign distro), but why = not. Thoughts? Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
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Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:35:44 -0400 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <YMaIQDhGK2B1ZDfe@HIDDEN> References: <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: ludo@HIDDEN, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:44:47PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > It is probably still a somewhat long and bumpy road, but in my personal > opinion one that has an end. > @lfam, ludo, efraim: WDYT? To me, it seems like we are applying a slightly higher standard to this patch than to other submissions of complex packages whose functionality is difficult to evaluate.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 21:44:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 17:44:53 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsXuX-0003mJ-EZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:44:53 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:10821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>) id 1lsXuV-0003mA-MJ for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 17:44:52 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G37Qm40LJz1LBRt; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 23:44:48 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4G37Qm40LJz1LBRt DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623620689; bh=DhUPnP9Dl0/eiI4d52BJ2vzCNS0P9KZ4/ZZtzw4VOfo=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=DO1snV+95pcmmDsqF0rKy6eqCN6IZFGIxW/fuAFqUIGqCUkP3z+MrEpI3eF5COVBi B7KXPIUtXXKt2NLoLvCsWli9wcvrhuuU7Q3sP7ze6wEW30KR4VoY7n1xrnAgdAShEG IPWfvhZ0wIKSgm71DfqgiFR/eU2AmZqOrPcNkUAI= Message-ID: <7519d8b43228f04281990bebda04ca785563b21f.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN>, leo@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 23:44:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Am Sonntag, den 13.06.2021, 19:56 +0000 schrieb Tony O: > Okay, I was going by the similarity to the nix package, but if you > require concrete proof then I just built it without the sandbox and > with my kernel supporting cgroups. Exactly 15 test fail, out of > nearly 400. Each of them by best approximation due to binaries not in > scope and/or systemd not being PID1 (as is repeatedly echoed on the > error log). > > If those 15 tests pose a concrete issue to you, I would consider > fixing them, but only with the guarantee that the result end up in > guix. As it stands disposition seems to be to not merge this, so I'll > reserve the effort. 15/400 tests failing sounds somewhat reasonable, especially if we can explain their failure modes (e.g. stuff like not being PID1). Even if we add the other tests, that require cgroups on top, that'd be fine, but we'd have to be able to display all that info in a meaningful fashion like ;; these tests want systemd to be PID1 "foo" "bar" "baz" ;; these tests require cgroups "spam" "ham" "eggs" ;; these are missing libquux "i" "ran" "out" "of" "funny" "variable" "names" However, this is somewhat different from the package description at hand, which lacks those explanations. The reference point is of course the thing that's compiled within the sandbox, not anything without. Having most tests pass when compiling stuff "normally" with Guix is perhaps a good indicator, that at least compiling works, but it's really just that. Finally – and this might be my ignorance of the systemd test suite speaking, so ignore me if I say something stupid – just because we have a test coverage of let's say 90% or even 100%, doesn't mean that the installed binaries will still be able to work. There is a large potential for bugs to sneek in, e.g. through an insufficient wrap phase, so for software like systemd, we should be able to do some trivial tasks, e.g. `systemctl start hello-world` with a systemd, that has not claimed PID1. TL;DR: the plan is to - Get the sandboxed package to match up as closely as you can get to the non-sandboxed one w.r.t. testing. - Document how the remaining disabled tests fail. - Prove, that components of systemd run when invoked directly from the store/from within a suitable environment. It is probably still a somewhat long and bumpy road, but in my personal opinion one that has an end. @lfam, ludo, efraim: WDYT? Regards, Leo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 19:57:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 15:57:18 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsWEQ-0001AL-BV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:57:18 -0400 Received: from mail-4323.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.23]:10368) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lsWEN-0001A6-Fa for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:57:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:56:59 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fron.io; s=protonmail; t=1623614228; bh=c8qT5LTlEqyjT3bBN8vTI4jXvIT+G032mMVHtqOAIs0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=BqzVstaKXHAYWu90iVJNSPwHAcwQcy51cpcTw1x5rnMhcg29yAVSi5kdvG44YdQM0 oE5ZZLbnN3UNbBZ4A7v8qvuuwWgE/iyTt2aIBCXNBDAouN29R3xzDOCkRk7OT15DSt pAlGqt9vFyX3/m2FKuuud1fwOjIaKEZIYHTBy+9Y= To: leo.prikler@HIDDEN, leo@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN From: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <WjWOB6SEHVWj_yb7XY2hHap6RSYQCliMBzpT5GoeFwCdoYKDFRmX74U0qPRlZFOo5Z7xAsXcFPGi3bO6fYE2ng==@fron.io> In-Reply-To: <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="---------------------72d2acf91d93b31b2cff574a46ef3a60"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------72d2acf91d93b31b2cff574a46ef3a60 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------e93854b860f481856099eb91a0a98344" -----------------------e93854b860f481856099eb91a0a98344 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------------------01023989492c9a1303bf9d831c9ae9df" -----------------------01023989492c9a1303bf9d831c9ae9df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable \-------- Original Message -------- On 13 Jun 2021, 20:00, Leo Prikler < leo.prikler@HIDDEN> wrote: Am Sonntag, den 13.06.2021, 18:54 +0000 schrieb Tony O: > Hi leo. As mentioned previously, I do find this useful, I'm using it > currently in LD\_PRELOAD for a nonfree package that requires systemd > and does not function with elogind patched in instead. Other usecases > exist but they're just speculation so far, though the package is > otherwise fully functional. Please describe "fully functional" in more detail. "I use it to fix this completely borked proprietary software" is not enough grounds to assume full feature coverage. Instead, I'd argue that the disabling of tests without explanation kinda proves the opposite. Okay, I was going by the similarity to the nix package, but if you require = concrete proof then I just built it without the sandbox and with my kernel = supporting cgroups. Exactly 15 test fail, out of nearly 400. Each of them b= y best approximation due to binaries not in scope and/or systemd not being = PID1 (as is repeatedly echoed on the error log). If those 15 tests pose a concrete issue to you, I would consider fixing the= m, but only with the guarantee that the result end up in guix. As it stands= disposition seems to be to not merge this, so I'll reserve the effort. -----------------------01023989492c9a1303bf9d831c9ae9df Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="---------------------084f76450b2e02594b55e24a247986d8" -----------------------084f76450b2e02594b55e24a247986d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGJyPjxicj4tLS0tLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tPGJyPk9uIDEzIEp1biAy MDIxLCAyMDowMCwgTGVvIFByaWtsZXIgJmx0OyBsZW8ucHJpa2xlckBzdHVkZW50LnR1Z3Jhei5h dCZndDsgd3JvdGU6PGJyPkFtIFNvbm50YWcsIGRlbiAxMy4wNi4yMDIxLCAxODo1NCArMDAwMCBz Y2hyaWViIFRvbnkgTzo8YnI+Jmd0OyBIaSBsZW8uIEFzIG1lbnRpb25lZCBwcmV2aW91c2x5LCBJ IGRvIGZpbmQgdGhpcyB1c2VmdWwsIEknbSB1c2luZyBpdDxicj4mZ3Q7IGN1cnJlbnRseSBpbiBM RF9QUkVMT0FEIGZvciBhIG5vbmZyZWUgcGFja2FnZSB0aGF0IHJlcXVpcmVzIHN5c3RlbWQ8YnI+ Jmd0OyBhbmQgZG9lcyBub3QgZnVuY3Rpb24gd2l0aCBlbG9naW5kIHBhdGNoZWQgaW4gaW5zdGVh ZC4gT3RoZXIgdXNlY2FzZXM8YnI+Jmd0OyBleGlzdCBidXQgdGhleSdyZSBqdXN0IHNwZWN1bGF0 aW9uIHNvIGZhciwgdGhvdWdoIHRoZSBwYWNrYWdlIGlzPGJyPiZndDsgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIGZ1bGx5 IGZ1bmN0aW9uYWwuPGJyPlBsZWFzZSBkZXNjcmliZSAiZnVsbHkgZnVuY3Rpb25hbCIgaW4gbW9y ZSBkZXRhaWwuICJJIHVzZSBpdCB0byBmaXg8YnI+dGhpcyBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IGJvcmtlZCBwcm9w cmlldGFyeSBzb2Z0d2FyZSIgaXMgbm90IGVub3VnaCBncm91bmRzIHRvPGJyPmFzc3VtZSBmdWxs IGZlYXR1cmUgY292ZXJhZ2UuIEluc3RlYWQsIEknZCBhcmd1ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBkaXNhYmxpbmcg b2Y8YnI+dGVzdHMgd2l0aG91dCBleHBsYW5hdGlvbiBraW5kYSBwcm92ZXMgdGhlIG9wcG9zaXRl Ljxicj48YnI+T2theSwgSSB3YXMgZ29pbmcgYnkgdGhlIHNpbWlsYXJpdHkgdG8gdGhlIG5peCBw YWNrYWdlLCBidXQgaWYgeW91IHJlcXVpcmUgY29uY3JldGUgcHJvb2YgdGhlbiBJIGp1c3QgYnVp bHQgaXQgd2l0aG91dCB0aGUgc2FuZGJveCBhbmQgd2l0aCBteSBrZXJuZWwgc3VwcG9ydGluZyBj Z3JvdXBzLiBFeGFjdGx5IDE1IHRlc3QgZmFpbCwgb3V0IG9mIG5lYXJseSA0MDAuIEVhY2ggb2Yg dGhlbSBieSBiZXN0IGFwcHJveGltYXRpb24gZHVlIHRvIGJpbmFyaWVzIG5vdCBpbiBzY29wZSBh bmQvb3Igc3lzdGVtZCBub3QgYmVpbmcgUElEMSAoYXMgaXMgcmVwZWF0ZWRseSBlY2hvZWQgb24g dGhlIGVycm9yIGxvZykuPGJyPjxicj5JZiB0aG9zZSAxNSB0ZXN0cyBwb3NlIGEgY29uY3JldGUg aXNzdWUgdG8geW91LCBJIHdvdWxkIGNvbnNpZGVyIGZpeGluZyB0aGVtLCBidXQgb25seSB3aXRo IHRoZSBndWFyYW50ZWUgdGhhdCB0aGUgcmVzdWx0IGVuZCB1cCBpbiBndWl4LiBBcyBpdCBzdGFu ZHMgZGlzcG9zaXRpb24gc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgdG8gbm90IG1lcmdlIHRoaXMsIHNvIEknbGwgcmVz ZXJ2ZSB0aGUgZWZmb3J0Lg== -----------------------084f76450b2e02594b55e24a247986d8-- -----------------------01023989492c9a1303bf9d831c9ae9df-- -----------------------e93854b860f481856099eb91a0a98344 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="publickey - EmailAddress(s=me@HIDDEN) - 0x3026807C.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - EmailAddress(s=me@HIDDEN) - 0x3026807C.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IEdvcGVuUEdQIDIu MS4zCkNvbW1lbnQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vZ29wZW5wZ3Aub3JnCgp4ak1FWGM4dFpoWUpLd1lCQkFIYVJ3 OEJBUWRBanBKdUs5bUQyYTN3aEVHdncrY2RyMzhKNkFUM2NKRG9NNjVHCng0YnRmbS9ORjIxbFFH WnliMjR1YVc4Z1BHMWxRR1p5YjI0dWFXOCt3bmNFRUJZS0FCOEZBbDNQTFdZR0N3a0gKQ0FNQ0JC VUlDZ0lERmdJQkFoa0JBaHNEQWg0QkFBb0pFTGN0V010U2Eyd3hCdGdBLzI1aFVNZXZTMnRmQURj OApFaUxadWhOMWwwTGwrOUluelpWYk44KytmSHBaQVBzRmh1dzJYNFJHVWkwT21DcW1hajhDVGdi NXB6dEFJaWlMCnhJWmYvM0ZHRE00NEJGM1BMV1lTQ2lzR0FRUUJsMVVCQlFFQkIwQlFCck50MDNw ZG56UjBpZ3EycXB5NXZZbTEKYjVlYk9wNGcxYThGZGJQM1F3TUJDQWZDWVFRWUZnZ0FDUVVDWGM4 dFpnSWJEQUFLQ1JDM0xWakxVbXRzTVhGRwpBUUNieGJaZ2ZyRlBBc3Z0QlVWTitxWUNqMCtPRGFk azV2UC9Tajg0VnZZN29BRC9SeXliTExmYnNEeEpHbStmCnYrYzBubkttUGx5V2tYUFc4emg2Qlg4 b0pRaz0KPTNWZ2UKLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFBVQkxJQyBLRVkgQkxPQ0stLS0tLQ== -----------------------e93854b860f481856099eb91a0a98344-- -----------------------72d2acf91d93b31b2cff574a46ef3a60 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wpYEARYIACcFAmDGYwoJELctWMtSa2wxFiEEMCaAfJ23NTgarLXWty1Yy1Jr bDEAIQkQty1Yy1JrbDEWIQQwJoB8nbc1OBqstda3LVjLUmtsMf3UAQCiRHOX uc0hESSTzRUYScpqtXTsDY5aXDN5Uai3HPH4xwD/ePjRwWEL6owTxbY+lHkg X9f4wNPgfBAKqhnIF4qTjQA= =f7EE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----------------------72d2acf91d93b31b2cff574a46ef3a60--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 19:00:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 15:00:23 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsVLL-0008HD-HO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:00:23 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:63067) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>) id 1lsVLJ-0008H4-6o for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:00:22 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G33mx5g7Bz3wPx; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:00:17 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623610818; bh=reE9TwGlVTSuLjpMBIR8rpUeQvzBOq0/gqdcrJdEOFE=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=lrsWKhEQpw0SAD3i8FOkRORzmTbxpzwzevZE6qaAnPi8RkFxn+agXYP/ql0hBJD37 8moHZwlzZUzKFdSuwAiHOFlTuWlq9UjssfB4eQU80y30olEJ70rB/qiYo+oL0kbODl 1YPt6iE/UmumuBD0Aa5cBEcz7f9gB1gMENuNQkq8= Message-ID: <7a89e12d172b71e524498ddfbc8899ab2efe4f0c.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN>, leo@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:00:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Am Sonntag, den 13.06.2021, 18:54 +0000 schrieb Tony O: > Hi leo. As mentioned previously, I do find this useful, I'm using it > currently in LD_PRELOAD for a nonfree package that requires systemd > and does not function with elogind patched in instead. Other usecases > exist but they're just speculation so far, though the package is > otherwise fully functional. Please describe "fully functional" in more detail. "I use it to fix this completely borked proprietary software" is not enough grounds to assume full feature coverage. Instead, I'd argue that the disabling of tests without explanation kinda proves the opposite. > -------- Original Message -------- > On 13 Jun 2021, 19:14, Leo Famulari < leo@HIDDEN> wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > > > Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis: > > > > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are > > high > > > > maintenance and no one likes having to update them. > > > > > > I agree with the two of you. What I’m saying is that if in > > addition of > > > having a high maintenance cost, it’s pretty much unusable, then > > that’s > > > not good. > > > > I share Efraim's point — maintenance burden has never been a > > primary > > reason to exclude things from Guix. I think it's important to > > handle > > this patch in a manner that is consistent with the precedent set by > > years of Guix code review. > > > > I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire discussion closely. Tony, > > does > > this package seem useful for you? > > > > There is a weird gamergate-esque faction in the free software > > community > > who hate systemd for reasons that are basically inexplicable. It > > seems > > to be one of several proxy battles fought by a far-right [0] > > political > > camp in a struggle over the direction of free software (I'm not > > sure > > *who* they are fighting... most distros just ignore them). We > > should > > recognize their longwinded sophistry for what it is. Systemd works > > and > > it works very well. > > > > Maybe we *should* start rejecting very high-maintenance > > contributions if > > we do not think they will be maintained adequately. But, I do not > > think > > that systemd should be the package that spurs that decision, > > because of > > the special importance that some people have placed on systemd, > > which > > has nothing to do with software, either technically or in terms of > > software freedom. > > > > > Oh you’re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be > > interested in > > > running ‘systemctl’ from Guix’ ‘systemd’ package? That sounds > > like a > > > bit far-fetched to me, dunno. > > > > I use systemd extensively with Guix-on-Debian, and it's one > > component > > that I will probably not replace with a Guix package. It's too > > deeply > > integrated within Debian for me to feel confident replacing it, > > although > > perhaps systemctl will work fine when provided by a 3rd party. I > > really > > don't know. > > > > The benefits of Guix on other distros — the strong control over the > > dependency graph and ability to modify it and roll it back — do not > > hold > > for systemd, in my opinion. Debian's operating system integration > > and QA > > process is good, at this level of the system. > > > > [0] I know that's a gross generalization, but it just seems that > > way to > > me > >
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 18:54:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 14:54:21 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsVFU-00087Q-JR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:54:21 -0400 Received: from mail1.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.18]:36665) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lsVFS-00087C-KF for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:54:19 -0400 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 18:54:01 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fron.io; s=protonmail; t=1623610451; bh=D71TzOSnvOBenpmqHsCNxUfcQAkH0YW1K+g43huRUAE=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=qwI+Nu5q4my/izcc8HiMjAHP++uIlBAJM4tjCxmjDy8TscjJTsWm1YZtkhVTPTlXx pD/YhmE43SUK4ExrWzKWwex9hPXcev3vIn4ffKYfG+WilCvGShiS9XRaRE+reVDBrg lVfNAPDg8/2WMQiC+gt8O6FuA6kUCu33+iNWV5e8= To: leo@HIDDEN, ludo@HIDDEN From: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <Qgzo1on2NZiWvZk_r8asfneqqAWJwn8LLydDNPQfV_zVTuw9mBiCQG2oEbaTDOhEa3cKEklNRcU2N7agPPznZg==@fron.io> In-Reply-To: <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="---------------------85019a5640c220b9a6f1267610b0264e"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: leo.prikler@HIDDEN, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, efraim@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------85019a5640c220b9a6f1267610b0264e Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------f99038af3d15e48e23275bb66c7334e1" -----------------------f99038af3d15e48e23275bb66c7334e1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327" -----------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi leo. As mentioned previously, I do find this useful, I'm using it curren= tly in LD\_PRELOAD for a nonfree package that requires systemd and does not= function with elogind patched in instead. Other usecases exist but they're= just speculation so far, though the package is otherwise fully functional. \-------- Original Message -------- On 13 Jun 2021, 19:14, Leo Famulari < leo@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: > > Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis: > > > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high > > > maintenance and no one likes having to update them. > > > > I agree with the two of you. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that if in addi= tion of > > having a high maintenance cost, it=E2=80=99s pretty much unusable, then= that=E2=80=99s > > not good. > > I share Efraim's point =E2=80=94 maintenance burden has never been a prim= ary > reason to exclude things from Guix. I think it's important to handle > this patch in a manner that is consistent with the precedent set by > years of Guix code review. > > I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire discussion closely. Tony, does > this package seem useful for you? > > There is a weird gamergate-esque faction in the free software community > who hate systemd for reasons that are basically inexplicable. It seems > to be one of several proxy battles fought by a far-right \[0\] political > camp in a struggle over the direction of free software (I'm not sure > \*who\* they are fighting... most distros just ignore them). We should > recognize their longwinded sophistry for what it is. Systemd works and > it works very well. > > Maybe we \*should\* start rejecting very high-maintenance contributions i= f > we do not think they will be maintained adequately. But, I do not think > that systemd should be the package that spurs that decision, because of > the special importance that some people have placed on systemd, which > has nothing to do with software, either technically or in terms of > software freedom. > > > Oh you=E2=80=99re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be inte= rested in > > running =E2=80=98systemctl=E2=80=99 from Guix=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98systemd= =E2=80=99 package? That sounds like a > > bit far-fetched to me, dunno. > > I use systemd extensively with Guix-on-Debian, and it's one component > that I will probably not replace with a Guix package. It's too deeply > integrated within Debian for me to feel confident replacing it, although > perhaps systemctl will work fine when provided by a 3rd party. I really > don't know. > > The benefits of Guix on other distros =E2=80=94 the strong control over t= he > dependency graph and ability to modify it and roll it back =E2=80=94 do n= ot hold > for systemd, in my opinion. Debian's operating system integration and QA > process is good, at this level of the system. > > \[0\] I know that's a gross generalization, but it just seems that way to > me > -----------------------d00891a35c944ca9a21368e37285a327 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="---------------------90cb031f8d0bd1f2c1744e2d90e18a32" -----------------------90cb031f8d0bd1f2c1744e2d90e18a32 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgbGVvLiBBcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgcHJldmlvdXNseSwgSSBkbyBmaW5kIHRoaXMgdXNlZnVsLCBJ J20gdXNpbmcgaXQgY3VycmVudGx5IGluIExEX1BSRUxPQUQgZm9yIGEgbm9uZnJlZSBwYWNrYWdl IHRoYXQgcmVxdWlyZXMgc3lzdGVtZCBhbmQgZG9lcyBub3QgZnVuY3Rpb24gd2l0aCBlbG9naW5k IHBhdGNoZWQgaW4gaW5zdGVhZC4gT3RoZXIgdXNlY2FzZXMgZXhpc3QgYnV0IHRoZXkncmUganVz dCBzcGVjdWxhdGlvbiBzbyBmYXIsIHRob3VnaCB0aGUgcGFja2FnZSBpcyBvdGhlcndpc2UgZnVs bHkgZnVuY3Rpb25hbC48YnI+LS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLTxicj5P biAxMyBKdW4gMjAyMSwgMTk6MTQsIExlbyBGYW11bGFyaSA8IGxlb0BmYW11bGFyaS5uYW1lPiB3 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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
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Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 14:14:40 -0400 From: Leo Famulari <leo@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?iso-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <YMZLEDYuMSZwxfzP@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN>, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote: > Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis: > > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high > > maintenance and no one likes having to update them. > > I agree with the two of you. What I’m saying is that if in addition of > having a high maintenance cost, it’s pretty much unusable, then that’s > not good. I share Efraim's point — maintenance burden has never been a primary reason to exclude things from Guix. I think it's important to handle this patch in a manner that is consistent with the precedent set by years of Guix code review. I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire discussion closely. Tony, does this package seem useful for you? There is a weird gamergate-esque faction in the free software community who hate systemd for reasons that are basically inexplicable. It seems to be one of several proxy battles fought by a far-right [0] political camp in a struggle over the direction of free software (I'm not sure *who* they are fighting... most distros just ignore them). We should recognize their longwinded sophistry for what it is. Systemd works and it works very well. Maybe we *should* start rejecting very high-maintenance contributions if we do not think they will be maintained adequately. But, I do not think that systemd should be the package that spurs that decision, because of the special importance that some people have placed on systemd, which has nothing to do with software, either technically or in terms of software freedom. > Oh you’re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be interested in > running ‘systemctl’ from Guix’ ‘systemd’ package? That sounds like a > bit far-fetched to me, dunno. I use systemd extensively with Guix-on-Debian, and it's one component that I will probably not replace with a Guix package. It's too deeply integrated within Debian for me to feel confident replacing it, although perhaps systemctl will work fine when provided by a 3rd party. I really don't know. The benefits of Guix on other distros — the strong control over the dependency graph and ability to modify it and roll it back — do not hold for systemd, in my opinion. Debian's operating system integration and QA process is good, at this level of the system. [0] I know that's a gross generalization, but it just seems that way to me
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
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Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:19:12 +0300
From: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd
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Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>,
Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
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On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:36:14AM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote:
> Hi!
>=20
> Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> > One thing that I've noticed with elogind is that it doesn't interact
> > will with systemd-logind on other machines. Any loginctl command
> > normally fails because the version we have looks in /var/lib/elogind and
> > systemd uses /var/lib/systemd.
>=20
> Oh you=E2=80=99re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be intere=
sted in
> running =E2=80=98systemctl=E2=80=99 from Guix=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98systemd=
=E2=80=99 package? That sounds like a
> bit far-fetched to me, dunno.
I meant it more like this:
(ins)efraim@g4:~$ loginctl list-sessions
SESSION UID USER SEAT TTY
1 118 sddm seat0
12683 1000 efraim seat0 tty2
13 1000 efraim seat0 tty3
15005 1000 efraim pts/2
4 sessions listed.
(ins)efraim@3900XT ~$ loginctl list-sessions
SESSION UID USER SEAT TTY
c1 980 sddm seat0
c2 1000 efraim seat0 tty8
2 sessions listed.
(ins)efraim@3900XT ~$ loginctl -H g4 list-sessions
bash: line 1: elogind-stdio-bridge: command not found
It should be possible to interoperate between them
(-H --host=3D[USER@]HOST Operate on remote host)
> > It would also be useful to figure out how to run user level systemd
> > services, likely using systemd itself, for those who are interested in
> > doing so.
> >
> > I've heard that systemd is modular, in that at compile time it's
> > possible to choose which modules to build. Perhaps we can build a subset
> > which are actually useful for us?
>=20
> Good question, no idea.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Ludo=E2=80=99.
--=20
Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D =
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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 09:36:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 05:36:28 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsMXc-0000qE-6w for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:36:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsMXZ-0000py-SX for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:36:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38182) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsMXT-0002QJ-Kk; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:36:19 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=54738 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lsMXQ-0000eu-RH; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 05:36:19 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 25 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:36:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> (Efraim Flashner's message of "Sun, 13 Jun 2021 10:31:19 +0300") Message-ID: <87sg1m2jjl.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi! Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> skribis: > On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 07:11:18PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: [...] >> I'm definitely leaning towards not including it as-is/perhaps having it >> in an external channel as well, but I don't think "high maintenance" >> should generally be a deterrent against a functioning package (or >> rather the only reason to keep a package from being included). [...] > I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high > maintenance and no one likes having to update them. I agree with the two of you. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that if in additio= n of having a high maintenance cost, it=E2=80=99s pretty much unusable, then tha= t=E2=80=99s not good. > One thing that I've noticed with elogind is that it doesn't interact > will with systemd-logind on other machines. Any loginctl command > normally fails because the version we have looks in /var/lib/elogind and > systemd uses /var/lib/systemd. Oh you=E2=80=99re saying that someone on a foreign distro might be interest= ed in running =E2=80=98systemctl=E2=80=99 from Guix=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98systemd=E2= =80=99 package? That sounds like a bit far-fetched to me, dunno. > It would also be useful to figure out how to run user level systemd > services, likely using systemd itself, for those who are interested in > doing so. > > I've heard that systemd is modular, in that at compile time it's > possible to choose which modules to build. Perhaps we can build a subset > which are actually useful for us? Good question, no idea. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2021 07:32:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 13 03:32:26 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42518 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lsKbZ-0006JR-VX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 03:32:26 -0400 Received: from flashner.co.il ([178.62.234.194]:45156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <efraim@HIDDEN>) id 1lsKbX-0006JC-KL for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 03:32:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (unknown [31.210.177.125]) by flashner.co.il (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C9532400CD; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:32:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 10:31:19 +0300 From: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> To: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#48924] Add systemd Message-ID: <YMW0R8aZi0s0RXme@3900XT> Mail-Followup-To: Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN>, Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>, Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 07:11:18PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Am Freitag, den 11.06.2021, 18:39 +0200 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: > > > This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I > > > think > > > that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be > > > it, > > > that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can > > > *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that > > > the > > > latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful > > > linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > >=20 > > Given the maintenance cost, we=E2=80=99d need a more convincing argumen= t than > > =E2=80=9Cshould be usable=E2=80=9D. :-) > >=20 > > So it seems to me that we=E2=80=99re done with it as far as inclusion i= n Guix > > is concerned. Thoughts? > >=20 > > It=E2=80=99s typically a situation where an external channel is more > > appropriate, IMO. > I'm definitely leaning towards not including it as-is/perhaps having it > in an external channel as well, but I don't think "high maintenance" > should generally be a deterrent against a functioning package (or > rather the only reason to keep a package from being included). Guix > already has packages, that I would consider to be of higher > maintenance, e.g. GNOME, and I do think it would help Guix users if > (parts of) systemd became a viable option. I am simply doubting the > functionality of this package as it currently exists. >=20 > That said, I don't think myself to be in a place to make accurate > judgements about entry requirements. I suggested =E2=80=9Cshould be usab= le=E2=80=9D as > a bare minimum because it seemed easy to convey. There are also other > things to consider, like coding style, adherence to packaging > guidelines, etc. with maintainability somewhere among them, but I can't > really phrase all of those well into a simple sentence. I also think > that some reviewer should be able to take an already functioning > package description and perform cosmetic changes to transform it into > one better suited for Guix, though that might be a bit of a > controversial statement. >=20 > Regards, > Leo >=20 I'd also argue that some of the bioinformatics packages are high maintenance and no one likes having to update them. One thing that I've noticed with elogind is that it doesn't interact will with systemd-logind on other machines. Any loginctl command normally fails because the version we have looks in /var/lib/elogind and systemd uses /var/lib/systemd. It would also be useful to figure out how to run user level systemd services, likely using systemd itself, for those who are interested in doing so. I've heard that systemd is modular, in that at compile time it's possible to choose which modules to build. Perhaps we can build a subset which are actually useful for us? --=20 Efraim Flashner <efraim@HIDDEN> =D7=90=D7=A4=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D = =D7=A4=D7=9C=D7=A9=D7=A0=D7=A8 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmDFtEYACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1EKbxAArfWqwXlvjGGnNtnAavmnPtFmhAeWPsshxClOo8HP40eeS3OXG7znm4+f hqFlZdaP47iPawXQJq8Xvm6b0gBaGfVed5gC0Sfa5BUP1FOCmJjcXKovkjU7UHz1 d4ej5izw6Cw3RD67n8Q94rleirfsHMVwGD9nrD2Wml7Z2TDvlsphk2vdLOnPYH9V kV72wTO2JX2enyijoMCRv1MEmkQZPs6KXqq2dLu8Ysd85QLBWbhCjN8RVfbObNM5 r7G0crg6Ee7Uy20kZT1KGYWema8G29X3QIV8XF8XIybcQdC09ePZGZU51YiSdoju DZ1koLUqh/iL05+8yDIN+tBKKDkdBIZOuWiUc3BOEGRrxFH+LNAnYVCTiGe7LVx9 Pm2vM7DXY4fW9H1KcoXacgXkZdgExjZPyDke+CxAHXBhdnQmwBfxBAxOC4aoyCNF yg69+TDW8SAroLyIm9QZ+YXJPrv0mfMWee7qN01tKOeyvOk91CKtg8t2tkyQi6Pr Se1YndWaLbHQkWLwg9JiQl6TFRuS8AGEaq/t/Sk7+3rNEiskALYMYFhgGm6SvVF6 wfrrkBz+vV21/rPufZ3Eq7/x/FdP53I4svpYO1Gt9iq8gtASWERzcdQxAhagNm+x j6zjDeeGH0G8OulWgRGQEKKAfyyUnTPY1GESVfw3n8WJ3naMurA= =M6RO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bdGtDPii2K1NCeVS--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2021 17:11:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 11 13:11:53 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39870 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lrkhF-000855-Ej for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:11:53 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:65278) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>) id 1lrkhB-00084u-Vp for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:11:52 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G1nSf29Bbz3x6h; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:11:46 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623431506; bh=r0m+NB7UiU223Tb8pgAYcEZFbscRIta4rAYjYyLVZkU=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=IAwlaBU4+DhyhvczSLCPlOXVWODUYtHPrUR3v54HYpvqycyCwoui1byDb5UlC/7eP nxOv1YNdaqJ+ggmYNzRU7WwhUz1AC46IVyklUTgVxRzOAnV9YIP3z8fVsHSj0PoKBm VNlmF7UOVaWaEXndbj67yY3wAJlBXt+X6bLpIu0I= Message-ID: <6bb174687e5520154f4cb0fefe8306158d594c01.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 19:11:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.117 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Am Freitag, den 11.06.2021, 18:39 +0200 schrieb Ludovic Courtès: > > This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I > > think > > that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be > > it, > > that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can > > *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that > > the > > latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful > > linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > > Given the maintenance cost, we’d need a more convincing argument than > “should be usable”. :-) > > So it seems to me that we’re done with it as far as inclusion in Guix > is concerned. Thoughts? > > It’s typically a situation where an external channel is more > appropriate, IMO. I'm definitely leaning towards not including it as-is/perhaps having it in an external channel as well, but I don't think "high maintenance" should generally be a deterrent against a functioning package (or rather the only reason to keep a package from being included). Guix already has packages, that I would consider to be of higher maintenance, e.g. GNOME, and I do think it would help Guix users if (parts of) systemd became a viable option. I am simply doubting the functionality of this package as it currently exists. That said, I don't think myself to be in a place to make accurate judgements about entry requirements. I suggested “should be usable” as a bare minimum because it seemed easy to convey. There are also other things to consider, like coding style, adherence to packaging guidelines, etc. with maintainability somewhere among them, but I can't really phrase all of those well into a simple sentence. I also think that some reviewer should be able to take an already functioning package description and perform cosmetic changes to transform it into one better suited for Guix, though that might be a bit of a controversial statement. Regards, Leo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jun 2021 16:39:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 11 12:39:48 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39853 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lrkCB-000573-V8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:39:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33364) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lrkCA-00056q-Fw for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:39:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33968) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lrkC3-0004F5-AT; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:39:39 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=51634 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lrkC2-00088M-Hl; Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:39:39 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 23 Prairial an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 18:39:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> (Leo Prikler's message of "Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:33:03 +0200") Message-ID: <87h7i45p9y.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> skribis: > Am Mittwoch, den 09.06.2021, 20:31 +0000 schrieb Tony O: >> In particular, im using it to relink against a nonfree binary which >> responds badly to tampering, so im using it only as a library.=20 > A systemd package, which serves no purpose other than being linked > against nonfree binaries does not sound particularly useful, especially > not when thinking in terms of FSDG compliance. We don't even know > whether *free* software linked against this systemd would behave as > expected, let alone nonfree software. Yeah, that=E2=80=99s definitely not a good reason to include it. > This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I think > that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be it, > that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can > *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that the > latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful > linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. Given the maintenance cost, we=E2=80=99d need a more convincing argument th= an =E2=80=9Cshould be usable=E2=80=9D. :-) So it seems to me that we=E2=80=99re done with it as far as inclusion in Gu= ix is concerned. Thoughts? It=E2=80=99s typically a situation where an external channel is more appropriate, IMO. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 22:33:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 18:33:37 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34841 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lr6lU-0006wk-TN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:33:37 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:47030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <leo.prikler@HIDDEN>) id 1lr6lS-0006wZ-34 for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:33:35 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-116-34-49.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.116.34.49]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4G0hhn6PyHz1DH90; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:33:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4G0hhn6PyHz1DH90 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1623278010; bh=wQTBF2afvz81QjjGy/dLGfmpXBJDEp9Dvi84ArLcXMM=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=MIK7uwJXjAYGgo4l9TX5LRagu699iGldf0sSRDbsetiLpb5ltuFrTZZTZNbRy4HMq wrbg5GY6F0oTQER5ZCVuN9S+uw/Rik0ChrDruxv9qR1RRDbcjkHpJl81k92u5UPIqW pE6uwgklgo4rd7ejOf2b5i7Dv4np1bCAUlnRs3gw= Message-ID: <8c9f7f3961274fd2fef3b715a0ff8b21026bb283.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN>, ludo@HIDDEN Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 00:33:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hello, As the one, who encouraged the sending of this patch I do have a few words to say. First of all, I misunderstood the context -- rather than systemd as a whole, I thought it would just be some systemd-related package. This does not matter that much, since a fully functioning systemd package would still be nice to have, but it still is important to distinguish between plain systemd, which doesn't work on Guix for various reasons and replacement libraries like elogind, which do. Next, let's address the elephant in the room: Am Mittwoch, den 09.06.2021, 20:31 +0000 schrieb Tony O: > In particular, im using it to relink against a nonfree binary which > responds badly to tampering, so im using it only as a library. A systemd package, which serves no purpose other than being linked against nonfree binaries does not sound particularly useful, especially not when thinking in terms of FSDG compliance. We don't even know whether *free* software linked against this systemd would behave as expected, let alone nonfree software. This was in part already discussed in IRC, but to reiterate, I think that the systemd package should be usable in some capacity -- be it, that we can run systemd as user daemons or be it, that we can *meaningfully* link free software against it. Note however, that the latter most likely implies the first, since there's no meaningful linkage against systemd without one of its daemons running. > Others (on irc) expressed interest in using the package, and i can > envision other usecases such as container images. Interest in a working systemd package has apparently existed longer than I was aware of, it's just the specifics of the term "working", that we need to argue about. > The downside to it being in my repo or being in "another channel" is > that anyone wanting to use it then risks nonfree software, and that's > already been lamented when i offered to do this in irc. I don't think, that's a realistic risk. For one, people could just cherry-pick systemd from your tainted channel, but more importantly you're assuming that the systemd you've packaged works in a context other than linking it against some evil binary without actually wanting to use it. Which is not to say that it doesn't, just that there hasn't been enough evidence to support that claim yet. There's nothing wrong with pushing WIP stuff to your own repo or any other channel that will accept them. There is however a problem with leaving them there and not even considering to submit them towards Guix (assuming that having a package for some given software in Guix proper is an option, regardless of the current state of the package definition), because then Guix will be blissfully unaware that a perhaps even proper package definition for it exists and might thereby be missing some awesome software. As far as the patch itself is concerned, there are a few FIXMEs too many for me to consider it ready -- in particular the double disabling of tests rubs me the wrong way. There's also some minor aesthetic stuff like the "add-shared-lib" phase, which is both not informative and bound to break with version updates, but I think that should be manageable. Going forward, I'd like to ask you (or anyone else willing to package systemd) to do the following: 1. Can you look into whether systemd or at least parts of it can be run from the package inside Guix? 2. Can you look into the disabled tests, particularly those, that are currently just FIXMEs? Regards, Leo
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 20:31:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 16:31:19 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lr4r9-00085M-3w for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:31:19 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.17]:40180) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lr4r5-000856-6q for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:31:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 20:31:06 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fron.io; s=protonmail; t=1623270668; bh=XOcIiy+EwaXPKaHfFYmfbijQuaQWH1s4UQc5uw6djh0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Jd+Yn931Qfq3FLr6aetP6BYfSTveD8wvmiCfHAFTQMXcabNvjF8Rdxiq2LsYAYhE6 TIZ0We8LINTh1sjekEbsgs/Fu+3DZT4ubCr5X1d4qAheBoJbkF2Lc7TTt8owk0YWty jmuiQRSIei1AjQQUWAW98dslWmykmDy7WJ6n5tOA= To: ludo@HIDDEN From: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd Message-ID: <rlnRDNsOy3WhfYIT2u39eHjY16ckiPJyCzJBFBcR-WDKtnV2sgow4pu1qYMTIOSatQTJYWXasChOlRgKHEyYbw==@fron.io> In-Reply-To: <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="---------------------b30118210da2cf8330a89d50824a50d5"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------b30118210da2cf8330a89d50824a50d5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------d05dc089b450ecf14efb5bb7038b2684" -----------------------d05dc089b450ecf14efb5bb7038b2684 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------------------50fc7de483af389a76adf39cdb454430" -----------------------50fc7de483af389a76adf39cdb454430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In particular, im using it to relink against a nonfree binary which respond= s badly to tampering, so im using it only as a library. Others (on irc) exp= ressed interest in using the package, and i can envision other usecases suc= h as container images. The downside to it being in my repo or being in "another channel" is that a= nyone wanting to use it then risks nonfree software, and that's already bee= n lamented when i offered to do this in irc. I'll leave it to your discretion... Best, ix \-------- Original Message -------- On 9 Jun 2021, 21:25, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s < ludo@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > Tony O <me@HIDDEN> skribis: > > > Yes, it is based on mbakke's work, I updated the version to latest stab= le and fixed the new errors :) > > Heh, neat. Be sure to preserve Marius=E2=80=99 copyright line. > > > I'm quite happy to keep it outside guix if it's not deemed suitable, I = was just encouraged to upstream stuff rather > > than keep things to myself. > > Sure, it=E2=80=99s a good idea in general! > > > My usecase at least doesnt require regular updating, so for things depe= ndent on just "a libsystemd" this would work > > fine. > > So what=E2=80=99s your use case? > > Specifically, what=E2=80=99s the answer to this question: > > > Now, it would be unusable, unless/until Guix System supports systemd (a= n > > option I do not support). For example, =E2=80=98guix install systemd=E2= =80=99 wouldn=E2=80=99t > > be of any use, right? > > By knowing the answer and understanding potential use cases, we can make > more informed decisions. > > TIA, > Ludo=E2=80=99. > -----------------------50fc7de483af389a76adf39cdb454430 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="---------------------b233d2ef91a5d7c3c7feb29f1e6d603b" -----------------------b233d2ef91a5d7c3c7feb29f1e6d603b Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SW4gcGFydGljdWxhciwgaW0gdXNpbmcgaXQgdG8gcmVsaW5rIGFnYWluc3QgYSBub25mcmVlIGJp bmFyeSB3aGljaCByZXNwb25kcyBiYWRseSB0byB0YW1wZXJpbmcsIHNvIGltIHVzaW5nIGl0IG9u bHkgYXMgYSBsaWJyYXJ5LiBPdGhlcnMgKG9uIGlyYykgZXhwcmVzc2VkIGludGVyZXN0IGluIHVz aW5nIHRoZSBwYWNrYWdlLCBhbmQgaSBjYW4gZW52aXNpb24gb3RoZXIgdXNlY2FzZXMgc3VjaCBh cyBjb250YWluZXIgaW1hZ2VzLjxicj48YnI+VGhlIGRvd25zaWRlIHRvIGl0IGJlaW5nIGluIG15 IHJlcG8gb3IgYmVpbmcgaW4gJnF1b3Q7YW5vdGhlciBjaGFubmVsJnF1b3Q7IGlzIHRoYXQgYW55 b25lIHdhbnRpbmcgdG8gdXNlIGl0IHRoZW4gcmlza3Mgbm9uZnJlZSBzb2Z0d2FyZSwgYW5kIHRo YXQmIzM5O3MgYWxyZWFkeSBiZWVuIGxhbWVudGVkIHdoZW4gaSBvZmZlcmVkIHRvIGRvIHRoaXMg aW4gaXJjLjxicj48YnI+SSYjMzk7bGwgbGVhdmUgaXQgdG8geW91ciBkaXNjcmV0aW9uLi4uPGJy PkJlc3QsPGJyPml4PGJyPi0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS08YnI+T24g OSBKdW4gMjAyMSwgMjE6MjUsIEx1ZG92aWMgQ291cnTDqHMgPCBsdWRvQGdudS5vcmc+IHdyb3Rl OjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIGNsYXNzPSJwcm90b25tYWlsX3F1b3RlIj48YnI+PHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPkhl bGxvLDwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPlRvbnkgTyAmbHQ7bWVAZnJvbi5pbyZndDsgc2tyaWJpczo8 L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj4mZ3Q7IFllcywgaXQgaXMgYmFzZWQgb24gbWJha2tlJ3Mgd29yaywg SSB1cGRhdGVkIHRoZSB2ZXJzaW9uIHRvIGxhdGVzdCBzdGFibGUgYW5kIGZpeGVkIHRoZSBuZXcg ZXJyb3JzIDopPC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+SGVoLCBuZWF0LiBCZSBzdXJlIHRvIHByZXNlcnZl IE1hcml1cyYjODIxNzsgY29weXJpZ2h0IGxpbmUuPC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+Jmd0OyBJJ20g cXVpdGUgaGFwcHkgdG8ga2VlcCBpdCBvdXRzaWRlIGd1aXggaWYgaXQncyBub3QgZGVlbWVkIHN1 aXRhYmxlLCBJIHdhcyBqdXN0IGVuY291cmFnZWQgdG8gdXBzdHJlYW0gc3R1ZmYgcmF0aGVyPGJy PgomZ3Q7IHRoYW4ga2VlcCB0aGluZ3MgdG8gbXlzZWxmLjwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPlN1cmUs IGl0JiM4MjE3O3MgYSBnb29kIGlkZWEgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCE8L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj4mZ3Q7 IE15IHVzZWNhc2UgYXQgbGVhc3QgZG9lc250IHJlcXVpcmUgcmVndWxhciB1cGRhdGluZywgc28g Zm9yIHRoaW5ncyBkZXBlbmRlbnQgb24ganVzdCAiYSBsaWJzeXN0ZW1kIiB0aGlzIHdvdWxkIHdv cms8YnI+CiZndDsgZmluZS48L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5TbyB3aGF0JiM4MjE3O3MgeW91ciB1 c2UgY2FzZT88L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5TcGVjaWZpY2FsbHksIHdoYXQmIzgyMTc7cyB0aGUg YW5zd2VyIHRvIHRoaXMgcXVlc3Rpb246PC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+Jmd0OyBOb3csIGl0IHdv dWxkIGJlIHVudXNhYmxlLCB1bmxlc3MvdW50aWwgR3VpeCBTeXN0ZW0gc3VwcG9ydHMgc3lzdGVt ZCAoYW48YnI+CiZndDsgb3B0aW9uIEkgZG8gbm90IHN1cHBvcnQpLiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgJiM4 MjE2O2d1aXggaW5zdGFsbCBzeXN0ZW1kJiM4MjE3OyB3b3VsZG4mIzgyMTc7dDxicj4KJmd0OyBi ZSBvZiBhbnkgdXNlLCByaWdodD88L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5CeSBrbm93aW5nIHRoZSBhbnN3 ZXIgYW5kIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgcG90ZW50aWFsIHVzZSBjYXNlcywgd2UgY2FuIG1ha2U8YnI+ Cm1vcmUgaW5mb3JtZWQgZGVjaXNpb25zLjwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPlRJQSw8YnI+Ckx1ZG8m IzgyMTc7Ljxicj4KPC9wPgo8L2Rpdj4= -----------------------b233d2ef91a5d7c3c7feb29f1e6d603b-- -----------------------50fc7de483af389a76adf39cdb454430-- -----------------------d05dc089b450ecf14efb5bb7038b2684 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="publickey - EmailAddress(s=me@HIDDEN) - 0x3026807C.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="publickey - EmailAddress(s=me@HIDDEN) - 0x3026807C.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgUFVCTElDIEtFWSBCTE9DSy0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IEdvcGVuUEdQIDIu MS4zCkNvbW1lbnQ6IGh0dHBzOi8vZ29wZW5wZ3Aub3JnCgp4ak1FWGM4dFpoWUpLd1lCQkFIYVJ3 OEJBUWRBanBKdUs5bUQyYTN3aEVHdncrY2RyMzhKNkFUM2NKRG9NNjVHCng0YnRmbS9ORjIxbFFH WnliMjR1YVc4Z1BHMWxRR1p5YjI0dWFXOCt3bmNFRUJZS0FCOEZBbDNQTFdZR0N3a0gKQ0FNQ0JC VUlDZ0lERmdJQkFoa0JBaHNEQWg0QkFBb0pFTGN0V010U2Eyd3hCdGdBLzI1aFVNZXZTMnRmQURj OApFaUxadWhOMWwwTGwrOUluelpWYk44KytmSHBaQVBzRmh1dzJYNFJHVWkwT21DcW1hajhDVGdi NXB6dEFJaWlMCnhJWmYvM0ZHRE00NEJGM1BMV1lTQ2lzR0FRUUJsMVVCQlFFQkIwQlFCck50MDNw ZG56UjBpZ3EycXB5NXZZbTEKYjVlYk9wNGcxYThGZGJQM1F3TUJDQWZDWVFRWUZnZ0FDUVVDWGM4 dFpnSWJEQUFLQ1JDM0xWakxVbXRzTVhGRwpBUUNieGJaZ2ZyRlBBc3Z0QlVWTitxWUNqMCtPRGFk azV2UC9Tajg0VnZZN29BRC9SeXliTExmYnNEeEpHbStmCnYrYzBubkttUGx5V2tYUFc4emg2Qlg4 b0pRaz0KPTNWZ2UKLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFBVQkxJQyBLRVkgQkxPQ0stLS0tLQ== -----------------------d05dc089b450ecf14efb5bb7038b2684-- -----------------------b30118210da2cf8330a89d50824a50d5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wpYEARYIACcFAmDBJQgJELctWMtSa2wxFiEEMCaAfJ23NTgarLXWty1Yy1Jr bDEAIQkQty1Yy1JrbDEWIQQwJoB8nbc1OBqstda3LVjLUmtsMVlbAQC4nDte BgFdDio1I8OADwPdUDA9SiwlDsh+WlNQ5FLTiQEAq6rX7LwJmN+/sl0Egx3c ddUCFBerO7D4fEGfVU7UXgQ= =4keP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----------------------b30118210da2cf8330a89d50824a50d5--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 20:25:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 16:25:29 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34743 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lr4lV-0007u6-AJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:25:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52722) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr4lR-0007tn-QO for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:25:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53960) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr4lM-00072H-3w; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:25:20 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=39220 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr4lB-0006WD-EO; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:25:19 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 22:25:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> (Tony O.'s message of "Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:08:17 +0000") Message-ID: <87sg1qbxb0.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hello, Tony O <me@HIDDEN> skribis: > Yes, it is based on mbakke's work, I updated the version to latest stable= and fixed the new errors :) Heh, neat. Be sure to preserve Marius=E2=80=99 copyright line. > I'm quite happy to keep it outside guix if it's not deemed suitable, I wa= s just encouraged to upstream stuff rather > than keep things to myself. Sure, it=E2=80=99s a good idea in general! > My usecase at least doesnt require regular updating, so for things depend= ent on just "a libsystemd" this would work > fine. So what=E2=80=99s your use case? Specifically, what=E2=80=99s the answer to this question: > Now, it would be unusable, unless/until Guix System supports systemd (an > option I do not support). For example, =E2=80=98guix install systemd=E2= =80=99 wouldn=E2=80=99t > be of any use, right? By knowing the answer and understanding potential use cases, we can make more informed decisions. TIA, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 18:08:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 14:08:37 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lr2d3-0004Qd-B1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 14:08:37 -0400 Received: from mail-40131.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.131]:22127) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lr2d1-0004QQ-8H for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 14:08:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:08:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fron.io; s=protonmail; t=1623262108; bh=vu+uxrhPZMyjrZ3lK29xzpM+h/uuSrVdagJZnyVqrgI=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=qHM7GTOsYMTKi35+r/5CDPajYko86ABSJPZLTCm5cIYNJ6E2SoRauT8E1ejGsyAP9 JQUWh003/ukWi3kaVaxP5ekG8ejj8YcGIIKr0/CGsP624gZbodv769HD2DtvtKcTt+ 8ojZVGQ452QPumlv+XFOxA5HrVhQRTGJVcODc3ZQ= To: ludo@HIDDEN From: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd Message-ID: <YNI_xB5G_0jHAWpD9mD6rWGMzXtE6P0dMG0L4wy_E8SDJssGgaaHlgVe9TRpuJmv5Q-0elQfKCfqexhQAY0Gkg==@fron.io> In-Reply-To: <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="---------------------7bf0083fdfc2d43ceede700ae3411eb5"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------7bf0083fdfc2d43ceede700ae3411eb5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---------------------637eeb8c7263de4c88b6f355f1d4c7a9" -----------------------637eeb8c7263de4c88b6f355f1d4c7a9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------------------0133480c0ed0fd9ab9f18606fc93091b" -----------------------0133480c0ed0fd9ab9f18606fc93091b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Yes, it is based on mbakke's work, I updated the version to latest stable a= nd fixed the new errors :) I'm quite happy to keep it outside guix if it's not deemed suitable, I was = just encouraged to upstream stuff rather than keep things to myself. My usecase at least doesnt require regular updating, so for things dependen= t on just "a libsystemd" this would work fine. Whatever happens happens! Best, ix \-------- Original Message -------- On 9 Jun 2021, 18:42, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s < ludo@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > Hi Tony! > > Tony O <me@HIDDEN> skribis: > > > From f2c7d9f76ab8f2dcaaf8d4fdfb1f050fdb04c588 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > > From: Tony Olagbaiye <me@HIDDEN> > > Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:15:02 +0100 > > Subject: \[PATCH\] gnu: Add systemd > > > > --- > > gnu/packages/freedesktop.scm \| 222 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > 1 file changed, 222 insertions(+) > > Woow, quite a piece of work! Is this based on Marius=E2=80=99 earlier wor= k? > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-04/msg00001.html > > The policy for Guix is to accept free software packages; this one > clearly fits the bill. > > Now, it would be unusable, unless/until Guix System supports systemd (an > option I do not support). For example, =E2=80=98guix install systemd=E2= =80=99 wouldn=E2=80=99t > be of any use, right? > > All in all, with my co-maintainer hat on, it seems to me that the > maintenance cost would be high (because it=E2=80=99s a large piece of sof= tware > that evolves very quickly), for a package that=E2=80=99d be practically > unusable, so I=E2=80=99d lean towards not including it. > > WDYT? > > Thanks, > Ludo=E2=80=99. > -----------------------0133480c0ed0fd9ab9f18606fc93091b Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="---------------------f5364ea38a69a61568138820338af42a" -----------------------f5364ea38a69a61568138820338af42a Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksPGJyPjxicj5ZZXMsIGl0IGlzIGJhc2VkIG9uIG1iYWtrZSdzIHdvcmssIEkgdXBkYXRlZCB0 aGUgdmVyc2lvbiB0byBsYXRlc3Qgc3RhYmxlIGFuZCBmaXhlZCB0aGUgbmV3IGVycm9ycyA6KTxi cj48YnI+SSdtIHF1aXRlIGhhcHB5IHRvIGtlZXAgaXQgb3V0c2lkZSBndWl4IGlmIGl0J3Mgbm90 IGRlZW1lZCBzdWl0YWJsZSwgSSB3YXMganVzdCBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkIHRvIHVwc3RyZWFtIHN0dWZm IHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGtlZXAgdGhpbmdzIHRvIG15c2VsZi48YnI+PGJyPk15IHVzZWNhc2UgYXQg bGVhc3QgZG9lc250IHJlcXVpcmUgcmVndWxhciB1cGRhdGluZywgc28gZm9yIHRoaW5ncyBkZXBl bmRlbnQgb24ganVzdCAiYSBsaWJzeXN0ZW1kIiB0aGlzIHdvdWxkIHdvcmsgZmluZS48YnI+PGJy PldoYXRldmVyIGhhcHBlbnMgaGFwcGVucyE8YnI+QmVzdCw8YnI+aXg8YnI+LS0tLS0tLS0gT3Jp Z2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLTxicj5PbiA5IEp1biAyMDIxLCAxODo0MiwgTHVkb3ZpYyBD b3VydMOocyA8IGx1ZG9AZ251Lm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6PGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9InByb3Rvbm1h aWxfcXVvdGUiPjxicj48cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+SGkgVG9ueSE8L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5Ub255 IE8gJmx0O21lQGZyb24uaW8mZ3Q7IHNrcmliaXM6PC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+Jmd0OyBGcm9t IGYyYzdkOWY3NmFiOGYyZGNhYWY4ZDRmZGZiMWYwNTBmZGIwNGM1ODggTW9uIFNlcCAxNyAwMDow MDowMCAyMDAxPGJyPgomZ3Q7IEZyb206IFRvbnkgT2xhZ2JhaXllICZsdDttZUBmcm9uLmlvJmd0 Ozxicj4KJmd0OyBEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDggSnVuIDIwMjEgMTc6MTU6MDIgKzAxMDA8YnI+CiZndDsg U3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENIXSBnbnU6IEFkZCBzeXN0ZW1kPGJyPgomZ3Q7PGJyPgomZ3Q7IC0tLTxi cj4KJmd0OyBnbnUvcGFja2FnZXMvZnJlZWRlc2t0b3Auc2NtIHwgMjIyICsrKysrKysrKysrKysr KysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrPGJyPgomZ3Q7IDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAyMjIgaW5zZXJ0 aW9ucygrKTwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPldvb3csIHF1aXRlIGEgcGllY2Ugb2Ygd29yayEgSXMg dGhpcyBiYXNlZCBvbiBNYXJpdXMmIzgyMTc7IGVhcmxpZXIgd29yaz88YnI+CjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0 dHBzOi8vbGlzdHMuZ251Lm9yZy9hcmNoaXZlL2h0bWwvZ3VpeC1kZXZlbC8yMDE4LTA0L21zZzAw MDAxLmh0bWwiPmh0dHBzOi8vbGlzdHMuZ251Lm9yZy9hcmNoaXZlL2h0bWwvZ3VpeC1kZXZlbC8y MDE4LTA0L21zZzAwMDAxLmh0bWw8L2E+PC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+VGhlIHBvbGljeSBmb3Ig R3VpeCBpcyB0byBhY2NlcHQgZnJlZSBzb2Z0d2FyZSBwYWNrYWdlczsgdGhpcyBvbmU8YnI+CmNs ZWFybHkgZml0cyB0aGUgYmlsbC48L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5Ob3csIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHVu dXNhYmxlLCB1bmxlc3MvdW50aWwgR3VpeCBTeXN0ZW0gc3VwcG9ydHMgc3lzdGVtZCAoYW48YnI+ Cm9wdGlvbiBJIGRvIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0KS4gRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsICYjODIxNjtndWl4IGluc3Rh bGwgc3lzdGVtZCYjODIxNzsgd291bGRuJiM4MjE3O3Q8YnI+CmJlIG9mIGFueSB1c2UsIHJpZ2h0 PzwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPkFsbCBpbiBhbGwsIHdpdGggbXkgY28tbWFpbnRhaW5lciBoYXQg b24sIGl0IHNlZW1zIHRvIG1lIHRoYXQgdGhlPGJyPgptYWludGVuYW5jZSBjb3N0IHdvdWxkIGJl IGhpZ2ggKGJlY2F1c2UgaXQmIzgyMTc7cyBhIGxhcmdlIHBpZWNlIG9mIHNvZnR3YXJlPGJyPgp0 aGF0IGV2b2x2ZXMgdmVyeSBxdWlja2x5KSwgZm9yIGEgcGFja2FnZSB0aGF0JiM4MjE3O2QgYmUg cHJhY3RpY2FsbHk8YnI+CnVudXNhYmxlLCBzbyBJJiM4MjE3O2QgbGVhbiB0b3dhcmRzIG5vdCBp bmNsdWRpbmcgaXQuPC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9Imx0ciI+V0RZVD88L3A+CjxwIGRpcj0ibHRyIj5UaGFu a3MsPGJyPgpMdWRvJiM4MjE3Oy48YnI+CjwvcD4KPC9kaXY+ -----------------------f5364ea38a69a61568138820338af42a-- -----------------------0133480c0ed0fd9ab9f18606fc93091b-- -----------------------637eeb8c7263de4c88b6f355f1d4c7a9 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; 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guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 48924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2021 17:42:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 09 13:42:19 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34633 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lr2Da-0003lm-U6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:42:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr2DY-0003lX-Pe for 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:42:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50162) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr2DT-0001Rh-EI; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:42:11 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=38992 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1lr2DT-0001V6-6Z; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 13:42:11 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#48924: Add systemd References: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 19:42:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> (Tony O.'s message of "Tue, 08 Jun 2021 16:19:33 +0000") Message-ID: <87wnr3aqa6.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48924 Cc: 48924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Tony! Tony O <me@HIDDEN> skribis: > From f2c7d9f76ab8f2dcaaf8d4fdfb1f050fdb04c588 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Tony Olagbaiye <me@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:15:02 +0100 > Subject: [PATCH] gnu: Add systemd > > --- > gnu/packages/freedesktop.scm | 222 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > 1 file changed, 222 insertions(+) Woow, quite a piece of work! Is this based on Marius=E2=80=99 earlier work? https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-04/msg00001.html The policy for Guix is to accept free software packages; this one clearly fits the bill. Now, it would be unusable, unless/until Guix System supports systemd (an option I do not support). For example, =E2=80=98guix install systemd=E2=80= =99 wouldn=E2=80=99t be of any use, right? All in all, with my co-maintainer hat on, it seems to me that the maintenance cost would be high (because it=E2=80=99s a large piece of softw= are that evolves very quickly), for a package that=E2=80=99d be practically unusable, so I=E2=80=99d lean towards not including it. WDYT? Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jun 2021 16:20:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 08 12:20:11 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1lqeSS-0005kS-AN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 12:20:11 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lqeSP-0005jr-O2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 12:20:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32832) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lqeSP-0002Ow-Fh for guix-patches@HIDDEN; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 12:20:01 -0400 Received: from mail-0201.mail-europe.com ([51.77.79.158]:58341 helo=mail-02.mail-europe.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1lqeSM-0007te-Aw for guix-patches@HIDDEN; Tue, 08 Jun 2021 12:20:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2021 16:19:33 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fron.io; s=protonmail; t=1623169175; bh=of4tfGn/bZLk3Q2R11HLepPfNlTLZ/2IHWvOLPoqxgA=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=A8W5+RRuD1NnRzHMV3dBkOOWdbjuVjJmTFbhLHQ7y4tpwA5TW6rcVEliiqHsfHEMz q3Js3e9Xmm2/JuVoWSM9ESeFGNmulm5sA3oQKXaRCb7ath6RaOx44jyjPZHMFjwJyz iLUFz4WpkFFcfcPuIe37IliEVmMy4mwcqfWAhBMI= To: "guix-patches@HIDDEN" <guix-patches@HIDDEN> From: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Add systemd Message-ID: <dvQW5QOoMhwaIXz7zMjE5FemgwPRLjI5ygh4wgbnFN2zo3gBq0-FrBzSeS78AnUQbLTcCyyMeywb5DGDy4AcGA==@fron.io> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="---------------------85da4704589f0f63b6fc48a8d00ea6c4"; charset=utf-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch Received-SPF: pass client-ip=51.77.79.158; envelope-from=me@HIDDEN; helo=mail-02.mail-europe.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: Tony O <me@HIDDEN> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) -----------------------85da4704589f0f63b6fc48a8d00ea6c4 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------97c4d0679a0e67401e7e666fcbb64673 -----------------------97c4d0679a0e67401e7e666fcbb64673 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary=---------------------8aca0770ae07520b98db0662c8608032 -----------------------8aca0770ae07520b98db0662c8608032 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Hello. Unsure what the conventional prelude here is, see attached my patch to add= systemd to (gnu packages freedesktop) for use as a library in other packa= ges. 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Tony O <me@HIDDEN>:guix-patches@HIDDEN.
Full text available.guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#48924; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.