GNU bug report logs - #48949
28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 16:36:34 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Without this patch, threaded nnimap painfully starts a new imap connection
with every refresh.

[0001-Lift-a-2012-process-locked-to-thread-restriction.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]

In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.30, cairo version 1.15.10)
 of 2021-06-09 built on dick
Repository revision: 6dffe81dd7a91b6ed61e6e9a0e523587f394744c
Repository branch: gnus-dev-28
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11906000
System Description: Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/home/dick/.local'
Configured features:
CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2
LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND
THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB
Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: ELisp/d

Minor modes in effect:
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  paredit-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  projectile-mode: t
  flx-ido-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  beacon-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/ess-noweb hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/ess-noweb
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/mouseme hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/mouseme
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/ess-mouse hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/ess-mouse
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/ess-noweb-mode hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/ess-noweb-mode
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/make-regexp hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/make-regexp
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/ess-r-a hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/ess-r-a
/home/dick/ESS/lisp/obsolete/ess-noweb-font-lock-mode hides /home/dick/ESS/lisp/ess-noweb-font-lock-mode
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/home/dick/ESS/lisp/julia-mode hides /home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/julia-mode-20200717.1915/julia-mode
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-clojure hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-clojure
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/org-inlinetask hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/org-inlinetask
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-vala hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-vala
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-ruby hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-ruby
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-sass hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-sass
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/org-faces hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/org-faces
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-lilypond hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-lilypond
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/org-datetree hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/org-datetree
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-sqlite hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-sqlite
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-picolisp hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-picolisp
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/org-ctags hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/org-ctags
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ol-gnus hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ol-gnus
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-java hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-java
/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ox-latex hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ox-latex
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-processing hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-processing
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/org-9.4.5/ob-table hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/org/ob-table
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/home/dick/.emacs.d/elpa/hierarchy-20171221.1151/hierarchy hides /home/dick/gnus/lisp/emacs-lisp/hierarchy

Features:
(shadow emacsbug deuglify gnus-cus gnus-diary nndiary gnus-html gnus-logic
gnus-mh mh-comp mh-scan mh-gnus mh-e mh-compat mh-buffers mh-loaddefs
gnus-registry registry eieio-base gnus-salt gnus-uu yenc gnus-vm nnselect
gnus-search eww xdg supercite regi elpaso-disc web-server
web-server-status-codes ghub-graphql treepy gsexp ghub let-alist elpaso
elpaso-admin elpaso-milky elpaso-defs lisp-mnt magit-extras face-remap
magit-patch-changelog magit-patch magit-submodule magit-obsolete magit-popup
async-bytecomp async magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect
magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit
magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge magit-branch
magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit magit-repos magit-apply
magit-wip magit-log magit-diff git-commit log-edit pcvs-util magit-core
magit-autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process with-editor server
magit-mode transient magit-git magit-section magit-utils which-func imenu
url-queue dumb-jump f vc google-c-style pulse ffap edebug cl-print debug
backtrace canlock bbdb-message flyspell ispell footnote vc-git vc-dispatcher
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bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib iso-transl tooltip eldoc
electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win
term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode
register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame
minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan
thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian
slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom
widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2
dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk
x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1966291 177326)
 (symbols 48 63774 69)
 (strings 32 318465 43584)
 (string-bytes 1 12735279)
 (vectors 16 81598)
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Message #8 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 08:53:39 +0300

> From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 16:36:34 -0400
> 
> Without this patch, threaded nnimap painfully starts a new imap connection
> with every refresh.
> 
> >From 6e9c04f4cd6b45aec319dad9e3dea4b9ec034c6b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: dickmao <none>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 16:19:16 -0400
> Subject: [PATCH] Lift a 2012 "process locked to thread" restriction
> 
> Remove an unexplained error that forbade a thread from
> accepting output from a process it didn't start.

That's a non-starter, sorry.  This restriction is one of the design
goals, so Emacs behaves here as intended.  It is not a bug, at least
not where you suggest the fix.

Message #11 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 06:26:28 -0400

Well, this response and that of #bug36609 effectively puts the kibosh on
my dream of Gnus 2.0 (a working version at github.com/dickmao/gnus I
run rather delightedly every day).  It's a more-than-5000 line change thus
far, so given the vigorous pushback on what I considered to be
non-controversial changes in #bug48949 and #bug36609, it never really had a
chance.

Gnus is such an awesome idea, but it is so, so poorly written and obtuse.  In
fairness to its original authors, I could not have written it better if I were
20yo and worked on it alongside a full-time job.  Heck at that age I could
barely piece together a sentence, much less write a kitchen-sink messaging
system in an impoverished, early implementation of elisp.  My narcissism is
such that I feel I'm the only person on the planet with the time and skill to
"Make Gnus Great (MGG)", not "Great Again" since it was never that.

Message #14 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:59:51 +0300

> From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
> Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 06:26:28 -0400
> 
> Well, this response and that of #bug36609 effectively puts the kibosh on
> my dream of Gnus 2.0 (a working version at github.com/dickmao/gnus I
> run rather delightedly every day).  It's a more-than-5000 line change thus
> far, so given the vigorous pushback on what I considered to be
> non-controversial changes in #bug48949 and #bug36609, it never really had a
> chance.

I don't understand: why being able to wait for a process that is
locked to another thread is so important for what you wanted to do?
And if it _is_ important, then why not unlock the process, so that its
output could be processed by any thread?

Message #17 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 10:51:45 -0400

EZ> why not unlock the process, so that its output could be
EZ> processed by any thread?

Yes, why don't I just call pset_thread(proc, Qnil) when the mood strikes in
process.c?  You make it sound as if pset_thread is an exposed defun.

Nine years ago, tromey in commit 6c0d5ae declaimed the notion of locking a
thread to a process.  Other than raising an error when a thread tried to
accept output from a process not its own, there appears to my untrained eye
no other ramification, good or bad, of pset_thread.

Message #20 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 10:56:53 -0400

drc> Yes, why don't I just call pset_thread(proc, Qnil) when the mood strikes
drc> in process.c?  You make it sound as if pset_thread is an exposed defun.

Ah, I'm an ass.  There is indeed a defun set-process-thread.

Message #27 received at 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#48949: 28.0.50; Thread-Process Liberalization
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:09:57 +0300

> From: dick.r.chiang <at> gmail.com
> Cc: 48949 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 10:51:45 -0400
> 
> EZ> why not unlock the process, so that its output could be
> EZ> processed by any thread?
> 
> Yes, why don't I just call pset_thread(proc, Qnil) when the mood strikes in
> process.c?  You make it sound as if pset_thread is an exposed defun.

No, I meant to use set-process-thread from Lisp.  That's what it is
for, and this stuff is documented in the ELisp manual.

(And I still don't fully understand why you'd need that, but if you
really do, you can; no C source-level changes needed.)

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