GNU bug report logs - #4897
23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer

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Package: emacs;

Reported by: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:00:04 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Tags: wontfix

Done: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:00:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>. (Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:00:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:26:25 +0100
The key binding for ? in the minibuffer can be very annoying for the
Info-index command.  Some languages, e.g. Forth or Scheme, have the
convention to append a question mark to predicate names and so typing a
plain ? is needed rather often.

Also, ? seems to do almost the same as TAB.
Please make ? a self-inserting command in the minibuffer.

Helmut



Information forwarded to bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:30:17 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #8 received at 4897 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:23:58 -0500
severity 4897 wishlist
stop

Helmut Eller wrote:

> The key binding for ? in the minibuffer can be very annoying for the
> Info-index command.

It behaves the same way as in the stand-alone info reader.
You can use `C-q ?' for a literal '?'.



Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> to control <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com. (Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:30:32 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 05:26:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #13 received at 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 06:25:07 +0100
Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:

> severity 4897 wishlist
> stop
>
> Helmut Eller wrote:
>
>> The key binding for ? in the minibuffer can be very annoying for the
>> Info-index command.
>
> It behaves the same way as in the stand-alone info reader.
> You can use `C-q ?' for a literal '?'.

IMO, it would be better to remove the "?" binding.  One could use
the more natural "TAB" binding instead.

However, given that this is very long-standing behaviour, can we
really change it now?  Any opinions?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 08:18:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #16 received at 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: rgm <at> gnu.org, eller.helmut <at> gmail.com, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 10:17:45 +0200
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 06:25:07 +0100
> Cc: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >> The key binding for ? in the minibuffer can be very annoying for the
> >> Info-index command.
> >
> > It behaves the same way as in the stand-alone info reader.
> > You can use `C-q ?' for a literal '?'.
> 
> IMO, it would be better to remove the "?" binding.  One could use
> the more natural "TAB" binding instead.
> 
> However, given that this is very long-standing behaviour, can we
> really change it now?  Any opinions?

It is very unusual for an index entry to include the question mark, so
I think the case for the change is quite weak.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 08:55:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #19 received at 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>, eller.helmut <at> gmail.com, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 09:54:35 +0100
tags 4897 + wontfix
close 4897
thanks

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>:
>
> > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> > Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 06:25:07 +0100
> > Cc: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > >> The key binding for ? in the minibuffer can be very annoying for the
> > >> Info-index command.
> > >
> > > It behaves the same way as in the stand-alone info reader.
> > > You can use `C-q ?' for a literal '?'.
> >
> > IMO, it would be better to remove the "?" binding.  One could use
> > the more natural "TAB" binding instead.
> >
> > However, given that this is very long-standing behaviour, can we
> > really change it now?  Any opinions?
>
> It is very unusual for an index entry to include the question mark, so
> I think the case for the change is quite weak.

That makes sense.  I'm consequently closing the bug as wontfix.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




Added tag(s) wontfix. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 08:55:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

bug closed, send any further explanations to 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com> Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 08:55:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:23:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #26 received at 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Helmut Eller <eller.helmut <at> gmail.com>, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 08:22:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > It behaves the same way as in the stand-alone info reader.
> > You can use `C-q ?' for a literal '?'.
> 
> IMO, it would be better to remove the "?" binding.  One could use
> the more natural "TAB" binding instead.
> 
> However, given that this is very long-standing behaviour, can we
> really change it now?  Any opinions?

One opinion: go ahead and remove it.
Anyone who really wants it can add it back
individually.

But it would be good to hear from others,
including anyone who uses it.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#4897; Package emacs. (Sat, 02 Nov 2019 15:40:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #29 received at 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: eller.helmut <at> gmail.com, 4897 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#4897: 23.1.50; Info-index and ? in minibuffer
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 08:38:19 -0700 (PDT)
> It is very unusual for an index entry to include the question mark, so
> I think the case for the change is quite weak.

That's true.  And the fact that using `?'
immediately shows `*Help*' helps (especially if
that help tells you about `?' - see below).

So I retract my vote to remove it.
___

However, it might be better for the displayed help
to not immediately disappear if you click it or
try to search it (`C-s'), etc., and to put it into
a separate window.  I.e., let it just do what
`C-h m' does.

And it might be better for the displayed help to
put this first line before other key descriptions:

?	Display this help.  (`C-q ?' inserts `?'.)
h	Invoke the Info tutorial.
q	Quit Info: reselect previously selected buffer.




bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org> to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sun, 01 Dec 2019 12:24:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

This bug report was last modified 4 years and 119 days ago.

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