GNU bug report logs - #49029
ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware extension The Great Suspender

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
To: bug-guix <at> gnu.org
Subject: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware extension The Great
 Suspender
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:29:03 -0300

Hi.  I use Guix atop Debian¹ testing (currently bullseye).

I normally browse the web on GNU IceCat and sometimes Firefox and
Emacs EWW.  I only use (ungoogled-)chromium for the rare websites that
don't work on the other browsers.  Long ago I installed in Chromium the
extension The Great Suspender, and only today (months after G$$gle
Chrome, according to news articles) did my Chromium disable it for
having malware.  And the only Chromium that did that for me was
Debian's.

So, I hypothesize that the ungoogling process has disabled Chromium's
ability to automatically disable malware extensions.  If true, that is a
serious defect of ungoogled-chromium and Guix should make sure that
users at least know about it.  There could be a warning in the Guix
package description *and* on the browser's start page.

Thank you for your work on GNU!

Regards

¹ When I find the time I intend to migrate to PureOS for superior libre
software ethics.

-- 
- https://stallmansupport.org "In Support of Richard Stallman"
- If an email of mine arrives at your spam box, please notify me.
- Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z.
- Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org
- [[https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html][What is free software?]]

Message #8 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
To: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto via Bug reports for GNU Guix" <bug-guix <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:49:43 -0400

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 06:29:03PM -0300, Jorge P. de Morais Neto via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
> Hi.  I use Guix atop Debian¹ testing (currently bullseye).
> 
> I normally browse the web on GNU IceCat and sometimes Firefox and
> Emacs EWW.  I only use (ungoogled-)chromium for the rare websites that
> don't work on the other browsers.  Long ago I installed in Chromium the
> extension The Great Suspender, and only today (months after G$$gle
> Chrome, according to news articles) did my Chromium disable it for
> having malware.  And the only Chromium that did that for me was
> Debian's.
> 
> So, I hypothesize that the ungoogling process has disabled Chromium's
> ability to automatically disable malware extensions.  If true, that is a
> serious defect of ungoogled-chromium and Guix should make sure that
> users at least know about it.  There could be a warning in the Guix
> package description *and* on the browser's start page.

Chromium is a program that is meant to be "evergreen". Version numbers
are not highlighted to the user and the software is supposed to update
itself, quickly and often. It's like a "rolling release" just for that
program.

A variant of the package that blocks communication to Google and
requires one of us to update it is, if you trust the Chromium team,
categorically less up-to-date than a "normal Chromium" downloaded
directly from chromium.org, and thus also less "secure", as you've seen.

I don't know exactly how the "disable malware extensions" mechanism
works, but it's likely that the "ungoogling" disables the possibility
that it can happen quickly, outside of full program updates.

It's a tradeoff we (have to?) make to offer a variant of Chromium that
is judged acceptable by us under the Free System Distribution
Guidelines, which Guix follows:

https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.en.html

Personally I use the "regular" variants of browsers, that talk directly
to the "motherships" of Google and Mozilla, for that reason.

By the way, the Debian testing branch is the last to receive security
updates, and in general has no guarantee of fast security updates. If
you want to use a Debian with more up-to-date software than the stable
branch and also are concerned about your security, you might consider
using Debian sid.

Message #14 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler <at> student.tugraz.at>
To: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>, "Jorge P. de Morais Neto"
 <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 16:40:31 +0200

Am Dienstag, den 15.06.2021, 09:49 -0400 schrieb Leo Famulari:
> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 06:29:03PM -0300, Jorge P. de Morais Neto via
> Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
> > Hi.  I use Guix atop Debian testing (currently bullseye).
> > 
> > I normally browse the web on GNU IceCat and sometimes Firefox and
> > Emacs EWW.  I only use (ungoogled-)chromium for the rare websites
> > that
> > don't work on the other browsers.  Long ago I installed in Chromium
> > the
> > extension The Great Suspender, and only today (months after G$$gle
> > Chrome, according to news articles) did my Chromium disable it for
> > having malware.  And the only Chromium that did that for me was
> > Debian's.
> > 
> > So, I hypothesize that the ungoogling process has disabled
> > Chromium's
> > ability to automatically disable malware extensions.  If true, that
> > is a
> > serious defect of ungoogled-chromium and Guix should make sure that
> > users at least know about it.  There could be a warning in the Guix
> > package description *and* on the browser's start page.
> 
> Chromium is a program that is meant to be "evergreen". Version
> numbers
> are not highlighted to the user and the software is supposed to
> update
> itself, quickly and often. It's like a "rolling release" just for
> that
> program.
> 
> A variant of the package that blocks communication to Google and
> requires one of us to update it is, if you trust the Chromium team,
> categorically less up-to-date than a "normal Chromium" downloaded
> directly from chromium.org, and thus also less "secure", as you've
> seen.
> 
> I don't know exactly how the "disable malware extensions" mechanism
> works, but it's likely that the "ungoogling" disables the possibility
> that it can happen quickly, outside of full program updates.
> 
> It's a tradeoff we (have to?) make to offer a variant of Chromium
> that
> is judged acceptable by us under the Free System Distribution
> Guidelines, which Guix follows:
> 
> https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.en.html
> 
> Personally I use the "regular" variants of browsers, that talk
> directly
> to the "motherships" of Google and Mozilla, for that reason.
> 
> By the way, the Debian testing branch is the last to receive security
> updates, and in general has no guarantee of fast security updates. If
> you want to use a Debian with more up-to-date software than the
> stable
> branch and also are concerned about your security, you might consider
> using Debian sid.

On a somewhat related note, this also highlights the trust people put
into storefronts like Google or Mozilla.  An update, that would first
be pushed to Github and then to distros like Debian or Guix would have
had more people looking at it critically.  Not to say, that Guix can't
ever ship malware, but that we try our darndest not to ;)

Now that I think of it, I should probably push my cosmetic changes to
evil-malware-service-type.

Message #17 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
To: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 13:59:44 -0300

Hi.  I didn't receive your email (I did this reply from Emacs debbugs
package).  Please include my email address in further messages to
mitigate the risk that I miss them.  I continue below:

On 06/15/21 09:49 , Leo Famulari wrote:
> Chromium is a program that is meant to be "evergreen".  Version
> numbers are not highlighted to the user and the software is supposed
> to update itself, quickly and often.  It's like a "rolling release"
> just for that program.

> A variant of the package that blocks communication to Google and
> requires one of us to update it is, if you trust the Chromium team,
> categorically less up-to-date than a "normal Chromium" downloaded
> directly from chromium.org, and thus also less "secure", as you've seen.

> I don't know exactly how the "disable malware extensions" mechanism
> works, but it's likely that the "ungoogling" disables the possibility
> that it can happen quickly, outside of full program updates.
>
> It's a tradeoff we (have to?) make to offer a variant of Chromium that
> is judged acceptable by us under the Free System Distribution
> Guidelines, which Guix follows:

I can accept a reasonable trade-off, but I still believe this should be
actively communicated to users.  It is not obvious.  If had known that
before, I would certainly have been more careful with extensions.
Indeed, now that I know, I have not only deleted my old
(ungoogled-)Chromium profile, but also, on the new profile, I installed
only HTTPS Everywhere and Privacy Badger extensions.  I have also
changed an important password that I remember having used on the
malware-infected Chromium.

> By the way, the Debian testing branch is the last to receive security
> updates, and in general has no guarantee of fast security updates.  If
> you want to use a Debian with more up-to-date software than the stable
> branch and also are concerned about your security, you might consider
> using Debian sid.

Thank you for the advice.  I already knew that though, and I think the
security risk of Debian testing is mitigated by my care.  I have
installed and configured debsecan.  It emails be about Debian
vulnerabilities, and then, in aptitude, I manually pull important
security updates from Debian unstable (sid).

That is a bit time-consuming, but I fear that going full unstable would
be too unreliable (more breakages) and would remove the option of
settling in stable without reinstalling.  I mean, since my sources.list
refers to bullseye, then, when it becomes stable, I will have Debian
stable and will have a choice whether (and when) to upgrade to the new
testing (bookworm).

Regards!

-- 
- https://stallmansupport.org "In Support of Richard Stallman"
- If an email of mine arrives at your spam box, please notify me.
- Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, ODF, Org, LaTeX, Opus, WebM and 7z.
- Free/libre software for Replicant, LineageOS and Android: https://f-droid.org
- https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html "What is free software?"

Message #20 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
To: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto" <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 12:31:20 -0400

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 01:59:44PM -0300, Jorge P. de Morais Neto wrote:
> I can accept a reasonable trade-off, but I still believe this should be
> actively communicated to users.  It is not obvious.  If had known that
> before, I would certainly have been more careful with extensions.
> Indeed, now that I know, I have not only deleted my old
> (ungoogled-)Chromium profile, but also, on the new profile, I installed
> only HTTPS Everywhere and Privacy Badger extensions.  I have also
> changed an important password that I remember having used on the
> malware-infected Chromium.

That trade-off applies for everything we package: in general, Guix
packages will be less up to date than what upstream offers, and thus
probabilistically more buggy and, based on your threat model, they may
be "less secure". It's the same for any distro.

But, the situation is exacerbated for Chromium, which is developed very
rapidly and has the most complete and advanced security posture of
probably any program in use right now. I guess that's what hundreds of
billions of dollars in annual revenue can buy.

Chromium, and web browsers in general, also have the most dire security
exposure, because most computer users do *everything* in their browser,
and because they are used to interact with untrusted data (the
internet). Chrome / Chromium is the "juiciest" target for attackers.

Message #23 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
To: "Jorge P. de Morais Neto via Bug reports for GNU Guix" <bug-guix <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 12:33:02 -0400

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 06:29:03PM -0300, Jorge P. de Morais Neto via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
> I normally browse the web on GNU IceCat and sometimes Firefox and
> Emacs EWW.  I only use (ungoogled-)chromium for the rare websites that
> don't work on the other browsers.  Long ago I installed in Chromium the
> extension The Great Suspender, and only today (months after G$$gle
> Chrome, according to news articles) did my Chromium disable it for
> having malware.  And the only Chromium that did that for me was
> Debian's.

Does anybody know what we need to do to fix this bug? Do we need to
update the ungoogled-chromium package?

Message #29 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
To: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>, "Jorge P. de Morais Neto"
 <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 23:09:19 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name> skriver:

> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 06:29:03PM -0300, Jorge P. de Morais Neto via Bug reports for GNU Guix wrote:
>> I normally browse the web on GNU IceCat and sometimes Firefox and
>> Emacs EWW.  I only use (ungoogled-)chromium for the rare websites that
>> don't work on the other browsers.  Long ago I installed in Chromium the
>> extension The Great Suspender, and only today (months after G$$gle
>> Chrome, according to news articles) did my Chromium disable it for
>> having malware.  And the only Chromium that did that for me was
>> Debian's.
>
> Does anybody know what we need to do to fix this bug? Do we need to
> update the ungoogled-chromium package?

It's not easily possible to install extensions with ungoogled-chromium,
apart from the two that are available directly through Guix.  If the
user goes out of their way to install extensions, such as using a
browser from a different distro, there is little we can do.

Mixing browser profiles between the vanilla and ungoogled Chromium is
not a supported use case.  Warranty void.

I'd accept a patch that warns or refuses to use a "tainted" browser
profile, or changes the default browser profile directory so it does not
conflict with vanilla.

But I'm inclined to close this as "not-a-bug" for now.  WDYT, Jorge?

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #32 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
To: Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:17:13 -0300

Hi Marius.

Em [2021-06-16 qua 23:09:19+0200], Marius Bakke escreveu:

> It's not easily possible to install extensions with ungoogled-chromium,
> apart from the two that are available directly through Guix.  If the
> user goes out of their way to install extensions, such as using a
> browser from a different distro, there is little we can do.
>
> Mixing browser profiles between the vanilla and ungoogled Chromium is
> not a supported use case.  Warranty void.

In my case, the Debian Chromium's profile was already there when I
installed Guix's ungoogled-chromium.  I didn't even notice that Guix's
ungoogled-chromium cannot install extensions from the Chrome Store.

> I'd accept a patch that warns or refuses to use a "tainted" browser
> profile, or changes the default browser profile directory so it does not
> conflict with vanilla.

Unfortunately I cannot write such a patch; I would have to dedicate a
large amount of time learning about Chromium's insides (which are
reportedly byzantine) and I don't even know if I'll actually keep using
Guix's ungoogled-chromium.  But couldn't you report this to
ungoogled-chromium upstream?

> But I'm inclined to close this as "not-a-bug" for now.  WDYT, Jorge?

In my humble opinion, users should be communicated, especially users of
Guix package manager on another GNU distribution.  Maybe at least a
warning in the package description that mixing Guix's ungoogled-chromium
and host distribution's Chromium on the same profile is unsupported?

Regards

-- 
- https://stallmansupport.org "In Support of Richard Stallman"
- I am Brazilian.  I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback.
- https://www.defectivebydesign.org
- https://www.gnu.org

Message #35 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer <at> gmail.com>
To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>,
 Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 23:55:59 -0500

Hello Jorge,

Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org> writes:

> Hi Marius.
>
> Em [2021-06-16 qua 23:09:19+0200], Marius Bakke escreveu:
>
>> It's not easily possible to install extensions with ungoogled-chromium,
>> apart from the two that are available directly through Guix.  If the
>> user goes out of their way to install extensions, such as using a
>> browser from a different distro, there is little we can do.
>>
>> Mixing browser profiles between the vanilla and ungoogled Chromium is
>> not a supported use case.  Warranty void.
>
> In my case, the Debian Chromium's profile was already there when I
> installed Guix's ungoogled-chromium.  I didn't even notice that Guix's
> ungoogled-chromium cannot install extensions from the Chrome Store.
>
>> I'd accept a patch that warns or refuses to use a "tainted" browser
>> profile, or changes the default browser profile directory so it does not
>> conflict with vanilla.
>
> Unfortunately I cannot write such a patch; I would have to dedicate a
> large amount of time learning about Chromium's insides (which are
> reportedly byzantine) and I don't even know if I'll actually keep using
> Guix's ungoogled-chromium.  But couldn't you report this to
> ungoogled-chromium upstream?

With close to 1500 bugs open, we need *your* help :-).  If you think
this issue is worthy of bringing upstream, please see to it!

Otherwise, I'm afraid I'll close this issue as not-a-bug as Marius
suggested, as it appears to me reasonable that the Guix-installed
ungoogled-chromium wouldn't know to police (especially outside of
regular updates) software installed from external sources to Guix.

Thank you,

Maxim

Message #38 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>,
 Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 08:34:34 -0300

Hello!

Em [2022-01-03 seg 23:55:59-0500], Maxim Cournoyer escreveu:

> With close to 1500 bugs open, we need *your* help :-).  If you think
> this issue is worthy of bringing upstream, please see to it!

Do you know of a way of bringing this issue upstream without a GitHub
account?  I could not find one.

Kind regards

-- 
- Many people hate injustice but few check the facts; this causes more
  injustice.  Ask me about <https://stallmansupport.org>
- I am Brazilian.  I hope my English is correct and I welcome feedback.
- Free Software Supporter: https://www.fsf.org/free-software-supporter
- If an email of mine arrives at your spam box, please notify me.

Message #41 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer <at> gmail.com>
To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>,
 Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 08:46:43 -0500

Hi,

Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org> writes:

> Hello!
>
> Em [2022-01-03 seg 23:55:59-0500], Maxim Cournoyer escreveu:
>
>> With close to 1500 bugs open, we need *your* help :-).  If you think
>> this issue is worthy of bringing upstream, please see to it!
>
> Do you know of a way of bringing this issue upstream without a GitHub
> account?  I could not find one.

You could find one of the project maintainers email address in the git
history of the project and send them a private email with your
suggestion.

Thanks,

Maxim

Message #44 received at 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49029 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>,
 Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 21:09:23 -0300

Hi,

Em [2022-01-06 qui 08:46:43-0500], Maxim Cournoyer escreveu:

> You could find one of the project maintainers email address in the git
> history of the project and send them a private email with your
> suggestion.

I have just emailed Eloston.  I will inform here if he replies.

Kind regards

-- 
- Please adopt free/libre formats like PDF, Org, LaTeX, ODF, Opus, WebM and 7z.
- Libre apps for AOSP (Replicant, LineageOS, etc.) and Android: F-Droid
- https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html "What is free software?"

Message #49 received at 49029-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer <at> gmail.com>
To: Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org>
Cc: Leo Famulari <leo <at> famulari.name>, 49029-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Marius Bakke <marius <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#49029: ungoogled-chromium failed to disable malware
 extension The Great Suspender
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 13:09:47 -0500

Hi Jorge,

Jorge P. de Morais Neto <jorge+list <at> disroot.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Em [2022-01-06 qui 08:46:43-0500], Maxim Cournoyer escreveu:
>
>> You could find one of the project maintainers email address in the git
>> history of the project and send them a private email with your
>> suggestion.
>
> I have just emailed Eloston.  I will inform here if he replies.

Thank you for doing so.  I'll close this on Guix side, as the discussion
has now moved to upstream, but feel free to reply with their response
(if any) here, for the record!

Thank you,

Maxim

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