GNU bug report logs - #49265
28.0.50; repeat mode feature request

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 00:13:41 +0200

Is it possible to add a command to get information about the commands
that have a repeat map? Basically something to know the commands with
some associated repeat like list-repeat-commands or describe-repeat or
so?


In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 50, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.29, cairo version 1.17.4)
 of 2021-06-26 built on Ergus
Repository revision: b8f9e58ef72402e69a1f0960816184d52e5d2d29
Repository branch: master
System Description: Arch Linux

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Message #8 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:38:42 +0300

> Is it possible to add a command to get information about the commands
> that have a repeat map? Basically something to know the commands with
> some associated repeat like list-repeat-commands or describe-repeat or
> so?

I thought that such a command could have the same prefix like 'repeat-help',
but prefixes 'list-' and 'describe-' are also fine.  Maybe it should be
similar to 'describe-bindings' or better 'describe-keymap'.

Message #11 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 15:25:42 +0000

> > Is it possible to add a command to get information about the commands
> > that have a repeat map? Basically something to know the commands with
> > some associated repeat like list-repeat-commands or describe-repeat or
> > so?
> 
> I thought that such a command could have the same prefix like 'repeat-help',
> but prefixes 'list-' and 'describe-' are also fine.  Maybe it should be
> similar to 'describe-bindings' or better 'describe-keymap'.

I thought the question was whether Emacs automatically,
or already in some way, provides some a way of
determining (e.g. using Lisp code) whether a given
command is repeatable (i.e., by just holding down a key
that it's bound to).

If that's the question then I think the answer is no.
(Is that right?)
___

If the question is instead just whether there is some
naming convention for such repeatable commands, or if
it is just a suggestion to have such a convention, then
I'll offer the naming pattern I use for such commands:

I append `+' to the command name.

For example, I use `end-of-line+' as the name of my
repeatable version of `end-of-line'.

  If called interactively with no prefix arg:
     If the previous command was also `end-of-line+',
     then move to the end of the next line.  Else, move
     to the end of the current line.
  Otherwise, move to the end of the Nth next line (Nth
     previous line if N<0).  Command `end-of-line', by
     contrast, moves to the end of the (N-1)th next line.

Similarly, repeatable command `doremi-bg+' changes a
frame's background color incrementally.

IMO, it makes much more sense to use a suffix for a
"repeatable" indication than to use a prefix.  And
there's no need for a long (pre|suf)fix, such as
`repeat-'.

Emphasis should be on the actual command name, and not
on the fact that it's repeatable.  One char (or at most
`-' followed by a single char) should suffice.
___

The other part of the request is to have a command
that shows, describes, etc. only repeatable commands.
With my naming that trivially amounts to typing a
pattern that matches `+'.

Even if your completion method doesn't let you limit
matches to `+' only at the end of the name, you'll
likely get only repeatable commands, as there aren't
many existing commands with `+' in the name.

And of course it's easy to define a command that
matches only command names with `+' at the end.
And such a command could do anything you like with
the result (describe all matching commands, return
nil or non-nil for a given command-name arg,...).

Message #14 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 23:36:42 +0300

>> Is it possible to add a command to get information about the commands
>> that have a repeat map? Basically something to know the commands with
>> some associated repeat like list-repeat-commands or describe-repeat or
>> so?
>
> I thought that such a command could have the same prefix like 'repeat-help',
> but prefixes 'list-' and 'describe-' are also fine.  Maybe it should be
> similar to 'describe-bindings' or better 'describe-keymap'.

Now a new command named 'describe-repeat' was pushed to master.  Please try it.
If everything is right, this request could be closed.

Message #17 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 23:37:23 +0300

> I thought the question was whether Emacs automatically,
> or already in some way, provides some a way of
> determining (e.g. using Lisp code) whether a given
> command is repeatable (i.e., by just holding down a key
> that it's bound to).
>
> If that's the question then I think the answer is no.
> (Is that right?)

The request was to create a new command that lists all repeatable
commands and keymaps.

Message #20 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:28:44 +0000

> > I thought the question was whether Emacs automatically,
> > or already in some way, provides some a way of
> > determining (e.g. using Lisp code) whether a given
> > command is repeatable (i.e., by just holding down a key
> > that it's bound to).
> >
> > If that's the question then I think the answer is no.
> > (Is that right?)
> 
> The request was to create a new command that lists all
> repeatable commands and keymaps.

Which amounts to the same thing: determining whether
a given command is repeatable.  I don't think Emacs has
a way of determining that.  (It would even seem to be
undecidable...)

(Though I don't know what you might mean by "and keymaps".
Repeatable keymaps?)

Message #23 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature request
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:33:07 +0000

> Now a new command named 'describe-repeat' was pushed to master.  Please try
> it.  If everything is right, this request could be closed.

Where was it added to master?  I downloaded the latest
help-fns.el, and I don't see it there.  Could you perhaps
post the code here?  Could you perhaps say, here, just
what it does?  Thx.

Message #26 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:50:43 +0200

>>>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:28:44 +0000, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> said:

    >> > I thought the question was whether Emacs automatically,
    >> > or already in some way, provides some a way of
    >> > determining (e.g. using Lisp code) whether a given
    >> > command is repeatable (i.e., by just holding down a key
    >> > that it's bound to).
    >> >
    >> > If that's the question then I think the answer is no.
    >> > (Is that right?)
    >> 
    >> The request was to create a new command that lists all
    >> repeatable commands and keymaps.

    Drew> Which amounts to the same thing: determining whether
    Drew> a given command is repeatable.  I don't think Emacs has
    Drew> a way of determining that.  (It would even seem to be
    Drew> undecidable...)

(mapatoms (lambda (sym)
            (and (commandp sym)
                 (get sym 'repeat-map)
                 (message "repeatable %s" sym))))

gets you the potentially repeatable commands. Whether theyʼre actually
repeatable depends on whether 'repeat-mode' is active.

    Drew> (Though I don't know what you might mean by "and keymaps".
    Drew> Repeatable keymaps?)

Bindings to repeatable commands maybe?

Robert
-- 

Message #29 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:59:07 +0200

>>>>> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:33:07 +0000, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> said:

    >> Now a new command named 'describe-repeat' was pushed to master.  Please try
    >> it.  If everything is right, this request could be closed.

    Drew> Where was it added to master?  I downloaded the latest
    Drew> help-fns.el, and I don't see it there.  Could you perhaps
    Drew> post the code here?  Could you perhaps say, here, just
    Drew> what it does?  Thx.

Itʼs in repeat.el (and it does what I described 30 seconds ago, but
better :-) )

Iʼm not sure what the use of showing the keymaps is though. Theyʼre an
internal implementation detail, showing the potential bindings would
be more useful.

(defun describe-repeat ()
  "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
  (interactive)
  (help-setup-xref (list #'describe-repeat)
                   (called-interactively-p 'interactive))
  (let ((keymaps nil))
    (all-completions
     "" obarray (lambda (s)
                  (and (commandp s)
                       (get s 'repeat-map)
                       (push s (alist-get (get s 'repeat-map) keymaps)))))
    (with-help-window (help-buffer)
      (with-current-buffer standard-output
        (princ "This is a list of repeatable keymaps and commands.\n\n")

        (dolist (keymap (sort keymaps (lambda (a b) (string-lessp (car a) (car b)))))
          (princ (format-message "`%s' keymap is repeatable by these commands:\n"
                                 (car keymap)))
          (dolist (command (sort (cdr keymap) 'string-lessp))
            (princ (format-message " `%s'\n" command)))
          (princ "\n"))))))


Robert
-- 

Message #32 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:10:24 +0000

>     >> > I thought the question was whether Emacs automatically,
>     >> > or already in some way, provides some a way of
>     >> > determining (e.g. using Lisp code) whether a given
>     >> > command is repeatable (i.e., by just holding down a key
>     >> > that it's bound to).
>     >> >
>     >> > If that's the question then I think the answer is no.
>     >> > (Is that right?)
>     >>
>     >> The request was to create a new command that lists all
>     >> repeatable commands and keymaps.
> 
>     Drew> Which amounts to the same thing: determining whether
>     Drew> a given command is repeatable.  I don't think Emacs has
>     Drew> a way of determining that.  (It would even seem to be
>     Drew> undecidable...)
> 
> (mapatoms (lambda (sym)
>             (and (commandp sym)
>                  (get sym 'repeat-map)
>                  (message "repeatable %s" sym))))
> 
> gets you the potentially repeatable commands. Whether theyʼre
> actually repeatable depends on whether 'repeat-mode' is active.

I see.  But `repeat-map' and the code supporting the code
you show are not in any Emacs release.  They're not even
in Emacs 28 code from earlier this year.  They're in the
repeat.el I just downloaded from Master - OK.

But it's possible to define repeatable commands that
don't use repeat.el at all.

I think my general statement stands, that it's impossible
for this check to be fully accurate/complete.  At the
very least, its doc should make clear that it makes sense
only (1) starting with Emacs 28 and (2) only for repeatable
commands defined using repeat.el code.

(Of course, for Emacs 28 we need not say it's only for
Emacs 28 or later.  But some communication of that fact
would help users.)

>   Drew> (Though I don't know what you might mean by "and keymaps".
>   Drew> Repeatable keymaps?)
> 
> Bindings to repeatable commands maybe?

Maybe; who knows?  A binding to a command is not a
keymap, and vice versa.  (A key can be bound to a
keymap, however.)

Message #35 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 15:11:07 +0000

>   >> Now a new command named 'describe-repeat' was pushed to master.
>   >> Please try it.  If everything is right, this request could be
>   >> closed.
> 
>   Drew> Where was it added to master?  I downloaded the latest
>   Drew> help-fns.el, and I don't see it there.  Could you perhaps
>   Drew> post the code here?  Could you perhaps say, here, just
>   Drew> what it does?  Thx.
> 
> Itʼs in repeat.el (and it does what I described 30 seconds ago, but
> better :-) )
> 
> Iʼm not sure what the use of showing the keymaps is though. Theyʼre an
> internal implementation detail, showing the potential bindings would
> be more useful.
> 
> (defun describe-repeat ()
>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."

Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.

>   (interactive)
>   (help-setup-xref (list #'describe-repeat)
>                    (called-interactively-p 'interactive))
>   (let ((keymaps nil))
>     (all-completions
>      "" obarray (lambda (s)
>                   (and (commandp s)
>                        (get s 'repeat-map)
>                        (push s (alist-get
>                                  (get s 'repeat-map)
>                                  keymaps)))))
>     (with-help-window (help-buffer)
>       (with-current-buffer standard-output
>         (princ "This is a list of repeatable keymaps and commands.\n\n")

Again, "repeatable keymaps" is a misnomer.

>         (dolist (keymap (sort keymaps (lambda (a b) (string-lessp (car a)
> (car b)))))
>           (princ (format-message "`%s' keymap is repeatable by these
> commands:\n"

How is a _keymap_ "repeatable"?

Message #38 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:55:33 +0300

> Iʼm not sure what the use of showing the keymaps is though. Theyʼre an
> internal implementation detail, showing the potential bindings would
> be more useful.

I agree, keybindings could be added as well.

Message #41 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 22:56:12 +0300

>>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
>
> Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
> mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
> the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.

Repeatable keymaps are keymaps with repeatable commands.

Message #44 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 21:15:34 +0000

> >>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
> >
> > Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
> > mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
> > the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.
> 
> Repeatable keymaps are keymaps with repeatable commands.

Why?  Do we define that term anywhere?  A keymap is,
itself, not something that can be repeated in any way.

And what constitutes a keymap with repeatable commands?
Is a keymap with one repeatable command repeatable, even
if it also has bindings for commands that are not
repeatable?

What's the use in listing such keymaps?  And what does
it mean to describe them?  `describe-keymap' lists the
bindings of a keymap.  But your reply to Robert, saying
that "keybindings could be added as well", suggests that
you mean something different by describing a keymap than
what `describe-keymap' does, which is to list a keymap's
key bindings.

Message #47 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 23:31:33 +0300

>> >>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
>> >
>> > Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
>> > mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
>> > the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.
>
> And what constitutes a keymap with repeatable commands?
> Is a keymap with one repeatable command repeatable, even
> if it also has bindings for commands that are not
> repeatable?

I don't see where is "Repeatable keymaps" used?
The above docstring is

  "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."

i.e. "repeatable commands" and also their "keymaps".

Message #50 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 21:09:24 +0000

> >> >>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
> >> >
> >> > Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
> >> > mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
> >> > the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.
> >
> > And what constitutes a keymap with repeatable commands?
> > Is a keymap with one repeatable command repeatable, even
> > if it also has bindings for commands that are not
> > repeatable?
> 
> I don't see where is "Repeatable keymaps" used?
> The above docstring is
> 
>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
> 
> i.e. "repeatable commands" and also their "keymaps".

The text is ambiguous.  If that's what you mean,
please reword it.  For example, this unambiguously
applies "repeatable" only to "commands":

  Describe keymaps and repeatable commands.

But is "describe keymaps" appropriate?  Or are the
keymaps that are described here only certain ones?

Message #53 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 11:48:28 +0200

>>>>> On Sun, 4 Jul 2021 21:09:24 +0000, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> said:

    >> >> >>   "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Again, that's wrong.  "Repeatable keymaps" doesn't
    >> >> > mean anything (to me, anyway).  If you mean describe
    >> >> > the keys bound to repeatable commands then say that.
    >> >
    >> > And what constitutes a keymap with repeatable commands?
    >> > Is a keymap with one repeatable command repeatable, even
    >> > if it also has bindings for commands that are not
    >> > repeatable?
    >> 
    >> I don't see where is "Repeatable keymaps" used?
    >> The above docstring is
    >> 
    >> "Describe repeatable commands and keymaps."
    >> 
    >> i.e. "repeatable commands" and also their "keymaps".

    Drew> The text is ambiguous.  If that's what you mean,
    Drew> please reword it.  For example, this unambiguously
    Drew> applies "repeatable" only to "commands":

    Drew>   Describe keymaps and repeatable commands.

    Drew> But is "describe keymaps" appropriate?  Or are the
    Drew> keymaps that are described here only certain ones?

It only describes keymaps that have bindings to repeatable commands in
them. I still think we should not mention keymaps at all, only bindings.

Robert
-- 

Message #56 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 14:53:28 +0000

>     Drew> The text is ambiguous.  If that's what you mean,
>     Drew> please reword it.  For example, this unambiguously
>     Drew> applies "repeatable" only to "commands":
> 
>     Drew>   Describe keymaps and repeatable commands.
> 
>     Drew> But is "describe keymaps" appropriate?  Or are the
>     Drew> keymaps that are described here only certain ones?
> 
> It only describes keymaps that have bindings to
> repeatable commands in them.

Yes, that's what I understood.  So the proposed doc
misleads.  (And it doesn't describe all such keymaps,
because it doesn't consider all repeatable commands -
see next.)

> I still think we should not mention keymaps at all, only bindings.

I agree.

And as I mentioned earlier, it should be made clear
in the doc that "repeatable" here means only commands
defined using `repeat.el'.

There are other ways to define repeatable commands,
and those commands aren't represented by this
describe feature.

(It's not even clear to me that this feature really
helps users.  A naming convention (combined with
`commandp', of course) makes more sense to me.)

Message #59 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>,
 Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 00:04:07 +0300

>     Drew>   Describe keymaps and repeatable commands.
>
>     Drew> But is "describe keymaps" appropriate?  Or are the
>     Drew> keymaps that are described here only certain ones?
>
> It only describes keymaps that have bindings to repeatable commands in
> them. I still think we should not mention keymaps at all, only bindings.

I checked again, and it seems everything is already correct:
currently the Help buffer groups repeatable commands
by the keymap that is activated in post-command-hook.

Then keymap names have links to the Help buffer that
shows information about the keymap: all its keybindings, etc.
using `describe-keymap'.
Also every command has a link to the Help buffer
that describes that command.

Indeed, there is text "keymap is repeatable by these commands"
in the sense that the keymap is activated for repetition
in post-command-hook.

Maybe Drew could suggest a better text?

One thing I see that could be improved is a too ambiguous name `describe-repeat'.
I propose to rename this command to `describe-repeat-mode'.

Message #62 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 01:31:49 +0000

> Indeed, there is text "keymap is repeatable by these commands"
> in the sense that the keymap is activated for repetition
> in post-command-hook.

I don't think the particular meaning you claim there
is suggested by that wording, i.e., that readers will
understand such an esoteric meaning of "repeatable"
as applied to a keymap.

> Maybe Drew could suggest a better text?

My suggestion would be to not say anything about the
keymaps involved.  What's the purpose in trying to do
that?  What additional help do you mean to provide
by it?

> One thing I see that could be improved is a too ambiguous
> name `describe-repeat'.

The problem isn't ambiguity, IMO.  It's that the name
and the description are overly general.  Only some
repeatable commands are covered by this (apparently).

> I propose to rename this command to `describe-repeat-mode'.

That sounds like it's a command that describes some
mode called `repeat-mode'.

I don't have a great suggestion for the name.  IIUC,
the command lists bindings of commands that are
defined using function `repeat'.

Maybe `list-repeat-commands', as OP suggested.  Or
maybe `describe-repeat-bindings', as it is bindings
that are listed/described.  I don't think it's
about describing the commands - their bindings are
listed.

(`repeat' vs `repeatable', since it's limited to
commands defined using repeat.el.)  

Message #65 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:54:06 +0300

tags 49265 fixed
close 49265 28.0.50
thanks

>> Maybe Drew could suggest a better text?
>
> My suggestion would be to not say anything about the
> keymaps involved.  What's the purpose in trying to do
> that?  What additional help do you mean to provide
> by it?

But the keymaps are the essential part of this feature.

>> I propose to rename this command to `describe-repeat-mode'.
>
> That sounds like it's a command that describes some
> mode called `repeat-mode'.

This is correct, the mode is called `repeat-mode'.

> I don't have a great suggestion for the name.  IIUC,
> the command lists bindings of commands that are
> defined using function `repeat'.
>
> Maybe `list-repeat-commands', as OP suggested.  Or
> maybe `describe-repeat-bindings', as it is bindings
> that are listed/described.  I don't think it's
> about describing the commands - their bindings are
> listed.

Thanks for the suggestion, this helped to rename it
to the most proper name `describe-repeat-maps',
because this feature is based on `repeat-map' props.
Also did my best to fix text strings.

Message #72 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: "49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
 Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>, Ergus <spacibba <at> aol.com>
Subject: RE: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 18:25:51 +0000

> >> Maybe Drew could suggest a better text?
> >
> > My suggestion would be to not say anything about the
> > keymaps involved.  What's the purpose in trying to do
> > that?  What additional help do you mean to provide
> > by it?
> 
> But the keymaps are the essential part of this feature.

Sorry, I haven't understood that.  How so?
What does the doc/help tell us about their
importance for "this feature"?

> >> I propose to rename this command to `describe-repeat-mode'.
> >
> > That sounds like it's a command that describes some
> > mode called `repeat-mode'.
> 
> This is correct, the mode is called `repeat-mode'.

I see.  I don't see that in Emacs releases.
Presumably it is new for Emacs 28.  So does
this command describe the mode?  Or does it
just list key bindings (as `describe-keymap'
does)?

> > I don't have a great suggestion for the name.  IIUC,
> > the command lists bindings of commands that are
> > defined using function `repeat'.
> >
> > Maybe `list-repeat-commands', as OP suggested.  Or
> > maybe `describe-repeat-bindings', as it is bindings
> > that are listed/described.  I don't think it's
> > about describing the commands - their bindings are
> > listed.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, this helped to rename it
> to the most proper name `describe-repeat-maps',
> because this feature is based on `repeat-map' props.
> Also did my best to fix text strings.

So are there multiple repeat maps?  And what
about what you hinted above - that this command
describes `repeat-mode'?  Is there perhaps a
`repeat-mode-map', and is this about that?

Not clear to me (not that that matters).

Message #79 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:51:03 +0200

[Here is a link to the previous discussion:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2021-10/msg01730.html ]

> >> Thanks, I tried this out, and everything looks nice.
> >> I could push this in the next few days after trying to solve
> >> remaining problems:

> Thereʼs no rush

Sorry for the delay.  Now your patch is pushed.

Message #82 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 20:21:16 +0200

> [Here is a link to the previous discussion:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2021-10/msg01730.html ]
>
>> >> Thanks, I tried this out, and everything looks nice.
>> >> I could push this in the next few days after trying to solve
>> >> remaining problems:
>
>> Thereʼs no rush
>
> Sorry for the delay.  Now your patch is pushed.

I noticed one shortcoming: describe-repeat-maps prints
only one keybinding for every command.  But sometimes
the same command is bound to more than 1 key in the same keymap.

Message #85 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:01:37 +0200

Hi Robert,

What do you think about using `map-keymap' in `describe-repeat-maps'
to fix the following problem?  Could it help to print all keys
bound to the same command?

> I noticed one shortcoming: describe-repeat-maps prints
> only one keybinding for every command.  But sometimes
> the same command is bound to more than 1 key in the same keymap.

Message #88 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:16:24 +0100

>>>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:01:37 +0200, Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net> said:

    Juri> Hi Robert,
    Juri> What do you think about using `map-keymap' in `describe-repeat-maps'
    Juri> to fix the following problem?  Could it help to print all keys
    Juri> bound to the same command?

    >> I noticed one shortcoming: describe-repeat-maps prints
    >> only one keybinding for every command.  But sometimes
    >> the same command is bound to more than 1 key in the same keymap.

You donʼt need `map-keymap' for that:

diff --git a/lisp/repeat.el b/lisp/repeat.el
index 45201ad1aa..5458ff30e5 100644
--- a/lisp/repeat.el
+++ b/lisp/repeat.el
@@ -533,10 +533,11 @@ describe-repeat-maps
           (dolist (command (sort (cdr keymap) 'string-lessp))
             (let* ((info (help-fns--analyze-function command))
                    (map (list (symbol-value (car keymap))))
-                   (desc (key-description
-                          (or (where-is-internal command map t)
-                              (where-is-internal (nth 3 info) map t)))))
-              (princ (format-message " `%s' (bound to '%s')\n" command desc))))
+                   (desc (mapconcat (lambda (key)
+                                      (format "'%s'" (key-description key)))
+                                    (or (where-is-internal command map)
+                                        (where-is-internal (nth 3 info) map)) ", ")))
+              (princ (format-message " `%s' (bound to %s)\n" command desc))))
           (princ "\n"))))))
 
 (provide 'repeat)

Message #91 received at 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 49265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49265: [External] : bug#49265: 28.0.50; repeat mode feature
 request
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 19:44:34 +0200

>     Juri> Hi Robert,
>     Juri> What do you think about using `map-keymap' in `describe-repeat-maps'
>     Juri> to fix the following problem?  Could it help to print all keys
>     Juri> bound to the same command?
>
>     >> I noticed one shortcoming: describe-repeat-maps prints
>     >> only one keybinding for every command.  But sometimes
>     >> the same command is bound to more than 1 key in the same keymap.
>
> You donʼt need `map-keymap' for that:
>
> +                   (desc (mapconcat (lambda (key)
> +                                      (format "'%s'" (key-description key)))
> +                                    (or (where-is-internal command map)
> +                                        (where-is-internal (nth 3 info) map)) ", ")))
> +              (princ (format-message " `%s' (bound to %s)\n" command desc))))

Thanks, works nicely, so pushed it now.

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