GNU bug report logs - #49424
27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file

Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.

Package: emacs; Reported by: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>; dated Mon, 5 Jul 2021 22:58:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 01:17:29 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 21:17:29 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1IfQ-0006nP-Ry
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:17:29 -0400
Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:45859)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1m1IfO-0006kw-C0
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:17:26 -0400
Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=35288 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz)
 by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1IfK-0000YB-Kf; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200
Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85])
 via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz
 with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200
From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <c2409d3b-7253-6d1a-912-a68331ca4932@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c2409d3b-7253-6d1a-912-a68331ca4932@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <f9be1672d3a3d7c092febfb073db3ec0@HIDDEN>
X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN
User-Agent: Orcon Webmail
X-GeoIP: --
X-Spam_score: -2.9
X-Spam_score_int: -28
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>,
 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)

On 2021-07-08 05:58, Peter Oliver wrote:
> If we’re making a change, here, it may be worth going all the way:
> create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don’t exist, and
> hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new
> initialisation file.

I don't agree with doing that.

The current XDG_CONFIG_HOME behaviour is opt-in, and I think it should
stay that way, partly so that the default behaviour is consistent across
systems, but also because I think the suggested behaviour would cause
widespread confusion from users who run Emacs before creating their
~/.emacs.d directory, and then can't figure out why their new config
isn't working.  (IIRC that is exactly what happened with the original
XDG_CONFIG_HOME support code before it was adjusted to ensure that it
was opt-in behaviour, despite the fact that you needed to be running
a pre-release build of Emacs to be affected and therefore likely to
have a better understanding of things than the average newcomer.)


-Phil





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 01:06:51 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 21:06:51 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53814 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1IV9-0004Zy-Dk
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:06:51 -0400
Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:37571)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1m1IV7-0004Zq-Ea
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:06:50 -0400
Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=9377 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz)
 by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1IV0-0004Me-Q0; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200
Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85])
 via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz
 with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200
From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
 <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <dc91bc6980ef2242449429f0d144de64@HIDDEN>
X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN
User-Agent: Orcon Webmail
X-GeoIP: --
X-Spam_score: -2.9
X-Spam_score_int: -28
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>,
 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)

On 2021-07-08 01:08, Robert Pluim wrote:
> Iʼm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the case
> where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is
> emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion.

Thanks for clarifying.  I agree -- that sounds sensible.






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 21:51:54 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 17:51:54 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1FST-0005lA-Rt
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 17:51:54 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:36780)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>) id 1m1FSR-0005ku-IX
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 17:51:52 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id v5so4789354wrt.3
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google;
 h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references
 :mime-version; bh=1S1i17x9yt/HO8HK1aK83DmbUzkRVsyLt0sUojLcYPM=;
 b=fR0TG2e4PwL/8v8p1Thb8Kt3a1I7SuDnUCDFMjgRtUBpNaf8z/cmLV4wOoW6xYV897
 0oHObv8hUu0wm3TEym/3ALKZg0DCbWIaWEp+VpCFpDo9rexjSR83xlccn9Ar4/AlIH/X
 sk5OsfYBQBonB+oXkM4JWKDccnyLjrVsBZgvU=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id
 :references:mime-version;
 bh=1S1i17x9yt/HO8HK1aK83DmbUzkRVsyLt0sUojLcYPM=;
 b=IX5nKtZSO4pvm8X8sDZWanDgRspMmnPukudpmk6QDoNDySsDdwWL8KrTxRNAatdeq6
 OOaudh38+iuQbMLb5UiDP07Y0W1zlPLqwmIQI2mkX3PoajA3mpTwcZk5H8OgXfADslOz
 4XfCIApDAZa6Cl6GVoKO8XIY1Um/SJmsl7KKSQQghoTqHfvHRpU484kM+UQzclF7H87s
 5E6WON5ljMAe37Wm035K883EpNl4Q1AzEgQqj+luctR3yxvfhUuDZ7vfBl0xKWjxYu8j
 frLBnppksU1Ylu4qV4WixLqU/yMMjUrNhRCNU5L8gyt3qH8IBW4Y13O/v8eLMbAEcQtp
 /4uA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5307q9io6Ahez+pwOGIKjPhxwHvihSV45D6qW4XH5uV8KvT9sdsb
 220MRixuINpJ7AJTlfF+BUARtQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCbOJKZ9X1brAgsHWt513xaXAkS/SeNezI/1WvCv9cWM6pFlPWaYqCe12xXMZkgMl2eUVCBw==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:e5ce:: with SMTP id a14mr29960086wrn.226.1625694705577; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk
 (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o22sm50242wmc.18.2021.07.07.14.51.44
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167LphvJ282141
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100
Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost)
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id
 167LphaP282136; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100
X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing
 -bs
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 (BST)
From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <83tul5exg2.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
 <831r8aezu6.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@HIDDEN>
 <83tul5exg2.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="-1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200"
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@HIDDEN, larsi@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> This sentence
> explains that the rest of the documentation doesn't mention the logic
> of finding the init file under its various names, instead using just
> one possible name.  You changed that one name without changing the
> rest of the documentation -- what does that achieve?

It turns out that the rest of the documentation already refers to ~/.emacs, not ~/.emacs.d/init.el.

> Stepping back a notch, the original report was:
>
>  The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says:
>
>  > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
>  > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file.
>
>  However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
>  and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.
>
> How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"?  And
> what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of how
> Emacs actually looks for the init file?

I understand the sentence to be making two assertions:

1. Throughout the documentation, “~/.emacs.d/init.el” will be used as a shorthand for “the initialisation file”, whatever filename that happens to have.
2. The default location of the initialisation file is “~/.emacs.d/init.el”.

Neither is true.

-- 
Peter Oliver
---1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 19:27:38 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 15:27:38 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53541 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1DCs-0002BH-F1
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:38 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45986)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1m1DCp-0002At-TY
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:36 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43098)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1DCk-0006gZ-Ho; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:30 -0400
Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2131
 helo=home-c4e4a596f7)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1DCk-0005HA-6V; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:30 -0400
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:27:41 +0300
Message-Id: <83tul5exg2.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@HIDDEN>
 (message from Peter Oliver on Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST))
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
 <831r8aezu6.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@HIDDEN>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@HIDDEN, larsi@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST)
> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
> cc: rpluim@HIDDEN, larsi@HIDDEN, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >>    For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
> >> -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the
> >> +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the
> >>  init file.
> >
> > Thanks, but this is still inaccurate.  Can we please change the
> > documentation so that it tells the whole story?
> 
> What do we think is wrong or missing?  In the context of the rest of that page, I admit it looks okay to me.

Then I don't think I understand the change at all.  This sentence
explains that the rest of the documentation doesn't mention the logic
of finding the init file under its various names, instead using just
one possible name.  You changed that one name without changing the
rest of the documentation -- what does that achieve?

Stepping back a notch, the original report was:

  The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says:

  > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
  > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file.

  However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
  and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.

How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"?  And
what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of how
Emacs actually looks for the init file?

What am I missing here?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 19:08:32 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 15:08:32 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53528 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1CuO-0007y2-A3
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:32 -0400
Received: from mail-wm1-f44.google.com ([209.85.128.44]:37613)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>) id 1m1CuL-0007xn-KZ
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:30 -0400
Received: by mail-wm1-f44.google.com with SMTP id
 y21-20020a7bc1950000b02902161fccabf1so1845038wmi.2
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google;
 h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references
 :mime-version; bh=gEoLF13Yau4U/yOpNaXoRDcB4BieSGYwq0kcVsnGJ94=;
 b=Wls+2bUp9Y1AvJpsUcRlA7Y7PfUawaz9ANV3kkAsLwVRY631uHAZJwFRKJuQF5YDNy
 VLlJknwQQpAdEdNxozsqGOtMwore7pmyXTIeYFa9fNyB3NDnplab3i1oW48vmeZrVuI7
 QbQOS0bZWM1/XbNZH5RJDVo8tNLKRYkP/SRXw=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id
 :references:mime-version;
 bh=gEoLF13Yau4U/yOpNaXoRDcB4BieSGYwq0kcVsnGJ94=;
 b=CsRbqOqo9b5APSoTC5pOQ05X2C4Hpt6ySLJTg9I83cFb5WEPVIJP3vnQa44dRNazvr
 8qcV80KFQyIM20Allhn6kBLnEOU1xHI6eU+PnPBb6/O4KorCzNbMT5xSRHVHLTJwYNBu
 n9w35L5uqkblZizxkp8Lr1SNwZUiZvrgBfk6SwVY/Gsj+bGh2jOXVbnvSCSbZEMMgCVH
 xCRqIEfQ/L6MvmHUjO/7o6zAFcej/OycgFRrAaDfsUJHE97/6q8BwCdaeUEczCBv009x
 9Eil2nMUGxNoJMCMoJwUiDhAeULu8eQ3vlyZMdcOzFIfOV5GXkm/J6ugQ50LF8KPeTkS
 qr8w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53296XLXmkJwrW1JozEnvKiB9KTVlVg1QrJbDTav1NwgkqzdxUPu
 XUtwB5Ta3n7TXGeowYd45KbqaA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzimm+B1YG3ABpzBRpDudWLujgA1tTEZYzYQm8WRt6/c0tgMMHqfpp7C93dC0Y1FKcAUMUf9g==
X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c1c6:: with SMTP id a6mr29165327wmj.159.1625684903537; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk
 (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d186sm7451484wmd.14.2021.07.07.12.08.22
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167J8LEl063733
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:22 +0100
Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost)
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id
 167J8KIr063727; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:21 +0100
X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing
 -bs
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <831r8aezu6.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
 <831r8aezu6.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@HIDDEN, larsi@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>

>>    For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
>> -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the
>> +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the
>>  init file.
>
> Thanks, but this is still inaccurate.  Can we please change the
> documentation so that it tells the whole story?

What do we think is wrong or missing?  In the context of the rest of that page, I admit it looks okay to me.

-- 
Peter Oliver




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 18:35:59 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 14:35:59 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1COs-0006w0-Sq
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:59 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35420)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1m1COo-0006vi-A5
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:57 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41646)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1COi-0007cu-OG; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:48 -0400
Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2954
 helo=home-c4e4a596f7)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1COi-0000TN-9e; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:48 -0400
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:36:01 +0300
Message-Id: <831r8aezu6.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
 (message from Peter Oliver on Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST))
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@HIDDEN, larsi@HIDDEN
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST)
> From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs'
> 
> Here’s a patch to do that.
> 
> -- 
> Peter Oliver
> 
> From e0a95ea7a048c505820829d8e10f0addf2cc6c4a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Peter Oliver <git@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:09:58 +0100
> Subject: [PATCH] Document init file with the highest precedence as ~/.emacs
> 
> * doc/emacs/custom.texi: Default location of init file is ~/.emacs
> (bug#49424).
> ---
>  doc/emacs/custom.texi | 2 +-
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
> 
> diff --git a/doc/emacs/custom.texi b/doc/emacs/custom.texi
> index de5d825248..708349e833 100644
> --- a/doc/emacs/custom.texi
> +++ b/doc/emacs/custom.texi
> @@ -2713,7 +2713,7 @@ Find Init
>  name in the system's data base of users.
>  
>    For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
> -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the
> +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the
>  init file.

Thanks, but this is still inaccurate.  Can we please change the
documentation so that it tells the whole story?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 18:12:14 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 14:12:14 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53420 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1C1t-0006Jk-Qw
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:14 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-f41.google.com ([209.85.221.41]:37761)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>) id 1m1C1r-0006JX-7e
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:12 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-f41.google.com with SMTP id i94so4119064wri.4
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google;
 h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references
 :mime-version; bh=3A7tkOVX48j8UKFovmHRd4iNRNqTJz3ZHeJYHoyzpr4=;
 b=KBuq+sYP2G4VzmFlzkg/6x5WC+fk/M0bNgWCIYxf2hgFNIq/DXoHFo/MYUnHr5Vx09
 lta+a088Cr4K150lAn5qbqTSQg/NyVkcMLMxllGHwie1SUhyNFCi733tDOTVj+pzwqzz
 VAFkzqrJ/tqCyH/Zbh1Ff3ZpBSsvEwRa0ryH0=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id
 :references:mime-version;
 bh=3A7tkOVX48j8UKFovmHRd4iNRNqTJz3ZHeJYHoyzpr4=;
 b=Tp54qBgAMomBi/5bXrrxdFX8SacXAuiZyiaUaSJtB1n1YCRbocpeZm4M3fDxee5wT5
 fYTVtqchuo2iWmur9TfLsNBgvozlx8BD2NOX2cBps2q94ASxXCgagX4mQIKBfPMtRaun
 +hjA2i3PPJMpAaNMkTlCQPqIe7Dh3wZcckmnGlii1k7ybNr2lMqydpXillK6J5+PgLeG
 Idt8UpkuiOd3xt4jVaslc9B4JhPQkOGf1BrImCq0HGHsrpt00Y0Op5L8qTT9F+t8Kpgy
 sWcNLKquIyKkl6tylZ7deK4toQ8dAu34eVw9YF1xW4BHjqr/GEKrSHSPocavURwMISQl
 esyg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533qmuaj+0IPojm9AUMiTAODWwgOvgEdiN5PkcjYsLkVMTa2TS/7
 P3uWGB9ja0N8uajNifbgfLJ3hQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxK7b/xmWcNxN9tXqKd1IT/4+wFi4x1N9Zk/Cy2uAy3E6YYMD/BH/KpqJq+oeoFCzZ6iM2Rjg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1361:: with SMTP id
 q1mr28879947wrz.179.1625681525526; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk
 (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x187sm11524679wmb.47.2021.07.07.11.12.04
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167IC37B045198
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100
Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost)
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id
 167IC3xf045195; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100
X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing
 -bs
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST)
From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="-1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200"
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Robert Pluim wrote:

>    > Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN> writes:
>    >> The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says:
>    >>
>    >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
>    >>> the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file.
>    >>
>    >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
>    >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.
>
> Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs'

Here’s a patch to do that.

-- 
Peter Oliver
---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name=0001-Document-init-file-with-the-highest-precedence-as-.e.patch
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-ID: <2991a472-c3c2-e441-5caf-b651634fa9f5@HIDDEN>
Content-Description: 
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Document-init-file-with-the-highest-precedence-as-.e.patch
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---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 17:59:09 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 13:59:09 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1BpF-0005yc-0O
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:59:09 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-f51.google.com ([209.85.221.51]:37460)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>) id 1m1BpD-0005y6-1B
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:59:08 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-f51.google.com with SMTP id i94so4071461wri.4
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google;
 h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references
 :mime-version; bh=16RfPru5dAJsQjIT6iTvSbmK6UI8RfXbHHN3JvLgFHU=;
 b=Q2pox6dhRY4ygUvuyYI/rKIWHlEnq9cBZDlcneJ6E6qwhicAlC9mPkLINdOIR8gxr3
 2aCwQtTuvZtAvpCnVemZzPMbsUHGcXzplPSCMkQ+fNqnZpTul/R+Y+H27mickivVi1BW
 i6n3MuGK0o7H432AyrvzWTdszPmsdgSXS+MYQ=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id
 :references:mime-version;
 bh=16RfPru5dAJsQjIT6iTvSbmK6UI8RfXbHHN3JvLgFHU=;
 b=dOz0BEPGUGnsWAs6Edr+1a0dKy9AqZA8NWhVo8wY0xYK8JW1IpC+aaq+Oeqz+BS0g4
 Q304TAvgvEt6uESdRSXlDSmtvEnSrcKZ7ex4FT4LSfMGuVvFEOKC5AYq8j+mR49Q5mNE
 qLwoJaX0blYwc7jghg31Q8TgNBrcfC+b63DF+lc8I3KHLY1ez6hi7v3k6fKzWvhcZD1E
 xAefW5gPJAtAfXkzqD1hGbm5l4W+L2NvO2kO6OUZslQhM2y53S9y+36mn1SBrFGlhDBZ
 Ya6ZohmDTWE/KwtvKCcU0bfIc55hRBKg99h7CshLPVtJ8EBY0MXdZpXCqMRbB4AL5qV2
 coFw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531W0ntwSKG+0J1KV2MSxbyDW/sd0Tb6oLlF/k+1tyYkeOcAMti2
 SK9+PdIsurD/zYdqGGRk03XI1g==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz6+TE2ndBjd2oGU0GTQRDB1e3/k34htEG6XlpBD2qWCy/r0jjT79cYu9swwyDT92f04y9erw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:259:: with SMTP id
 m25mr793181wrz.230.1625680741098; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk
 (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h21sm19097907wmq.38.2021.07.07.10.59.00
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167Hwxw9044107
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:59 +0100
Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost)
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id
 167HwvUT044104; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:58 +0100
X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing
 -bs
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:57 +0100 (BST)
From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <c2409d3b-7253-6d1a-912-a68331ca4932@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="-1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200"
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Robert Pluim wrote:

> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as
> the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we
> want, people who already have init files will not be affected.

Sounds good to me.

If we’re making a change, here, it may be worth going all the way: create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don’t exist, and hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new initialisation file.

-- 
Peter Oliver
---1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 16:33:48 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 12:33:48 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53329 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1AUe-0003no-Av
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:48 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50560)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1AUb-0003nc-GD
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:47 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58336)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1AUa-0002Ib-23
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:45 -0400
Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:38420)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1AUX-0000pU-No
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:43 -0400
Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m1AUW-000A4i-9F
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:33:40 +0200
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
From: Rudolf Schlatte <rudi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:33:31 +0200
Message-ID: <m2v95mxew4.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m21r8az7kx.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o8beb77j.fsf@HIDDEN>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:TPf6xA/RaLc/CCzd1pvF2CWwEXk=
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214;
 envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; helo=ciao.gmane.io
X-Spam_score_int: -15
X-Spam_score: -1.6
X-Spam_bar: -
X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9,
 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--)

Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200, Rudolf Schlatte <rudi@HIDDEN> said:
>
>     Rudolf> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>     >> Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and
>     >> .emacs donʼt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it
>     >> exists and .emacs doesnʼt.
>
>     Rudolf> I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more than one
>     Rudolf> of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init files
>     Rudolf> detected.  Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/init.el"
>
> A warning prominent enough for people to notice would also be annoying
> enough that people would complain about us changing the status quo out
> from under them. The best we could do is putting something in
> *Messages*, I suspect

A line in *Messages* was what I was thinking of, yes.  Maybe conditional
on a variable in case it turns out annoying for people who have shadowed
init files on purpose and want to keep their *Messages* buffer clean.
Or maybe a command `list-init-file-shadows' analogous to the existing
`list-load-path-shadows'.





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 16:21:44 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 12:21:44 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53320 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m1AIy-0003R9-0N
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:21:44 -0400
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:42347)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>) id 1m1AIw-0003Qu-F0
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:21:43 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net;
 s=badeba3b8450; t=1625674889;
 bh=WdLGyJC4HI8pzafVwFDeK6mYMaOpgr5NuKF/M9RTrMI=;
 h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To;
 b=FOuoVhjv//kQr0OVATxlGmJCrqOKT3sEaqtmwZCIS5abWUS/pBvnUqw/oQc8TIVPl
 r+gGcRr5w6MtJ8E+ZNbIq3SlbXM9US+/B7Sqzuyc+DXSRQxFuZvVFE18O2ZjKcng5J
 3JQVYFJALnKjNXL0uUcUlFjNR1jyZXmlDzAkJh8U=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from strobelfs ([84.61.246.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004
 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVNAr-1lZuHu10tT-00SNcJ; Wed, 07
 Jul 2021 18:21:29 +0200
From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
 <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN> <871r8a43jf.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87k0m2b31j.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:21:27 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87k0m2b31j.fsf@HIDDEN> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07
 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200")
Message-ID: <87wnq22iyg.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:rl/zrgJBDoe16jKcMOBvFmMmT5xoGsPFL7DESydhIhyCeHn0L/a
 uVFmfjjcLfF5XyEsb6kjKmeUwsLXvyl8urQUiyRpNh/PkEjx2hM3Xn/ZkyY6Fsi+2u9PS3R
 JO12IA0uPJKL06YGrpF181HRulHjaJHH/Wr0Pioxv0qKzHHks9faFbd+GlaG7xzy2dAK8/5
 xEnNAfCa1E4AilVERskoQ==
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+YIvY/sFJhg=:82dO/z1n0T9OnSiF/ymhPh
 t7Vsp4q82CfEO/KcKfFaq1iE60yB+Cj1JxjbGnbIcacaDy2SDhKPzpnzHkLIyvEQ2jbhVXDWI
 tq9B53RfwiL6hAHYzWgKFxej3fdylzjlA5eRskFaCepnPFwpCb4ZM4fVNfPYCw62Kb6JylsDV
 ZeGz8y9Z7g5unOtFDy5uNEs31AypQZV0DLSHOy0gJEr2A9GG/0HhsW+pxt56pvKFCny6lJeII
 51Nl/nDo5CQvgLGFxxaklI4n7ZcTIVzyaBuzx3jhVnpN82LnTOtXrNMCBEwvS2zZ4DkOx99QL
 aSe6p4KVt7YBZBsbVYA1QAH6ZSJIOVdvoGCFC4PQrCDCbwV0leUjYHQU8DuqWwA5p18gO5ZNj
 /ESDPqi/4LfQxA1BPTCZWob+PZ1uYkaftBQKyJ1sY/egee8GawKVHjoUoElfEwksvBIE5rzgA
 pJ5Alz2SwlTki+Wv+MJYbpF2KVWM1m+oU3HTMrhj3wtMB7eKM9rwwIc5kQVwkMf0hoOkTLl9t
 Cf+rVaXHRr0B0VsEgVHCazCTNgLF3aLgfv0q//TjdTZemuaOy1wD1ZlmYbWGNZuCdMHep1F8j
 Yi9wts2gA7LnDNCcITSnLMD8Li+ejWEEc0mGHjNvNPo8Z1y9Nww54I0+2kz7GxG1zGwTLTeBj
 mS/GWRjM9ubbmlgLGMDbTRIJXL8nqqLsSpEnF8UJKMoyLHsbOTsdh30Bi65by/6CeIIjFn8FP
 vyF5YNdkqz3fZKilduzdIP3oWEgUGMkAfexZILpq4v3uuzae14C1FPiecF7uYUYKPL9XYAMCM
 rAOyzEY2tmjuzVV9i/SxeMT3+t1tSVrBjrG0h2QarDu8rcA7tJPGLHaqERYP/nYtrvW0QANG+
 ycN6xWmEn9VkBPQ/KU5zy/3FRJY8zFrPwM8SXNyK9z4csD8d/K0enPXseXNuHOJOW8XwyObu9
 0HcY5xchG5mCeas84IHvn8DnplcSpW/vCGkfrH+ASfYyYgp2VV9UynqT81O9IURJuAjAHC/Rr
 xwg878YenAhPMA3G5eCJy95/5yaJ+rOH3Uf8XYNzjjV/frtWDh0mk/NCNSbgyPBPYKLIZIDzD
 3qRiEQaGyEq3N0yDFJWhYdVS8PzRMnGFXJeWAYYZRAj4iH/ERWITLwBxg==
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>,
 Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)

On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200 Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> wrote:

>>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200, Stephen Berman
> <stephen.berman@HIDDEN> said:
>
>     Stephen> One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can =
use ~/.emacs
>     Stephen> to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an i=
nit file,
>     Stephen> without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init f=
ile
>     Stephen> ~/.emacs.d/init.el.  That benefit would be lost if the prior=
ity was
>     Stephen> changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init f=
ile and
>     Stephen> using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appea=
ling).
>
> Instead of 'no init files' -> .emacs, we=CA=BCd have 'no init files' ->
> ~/.emacs.d/init.el
>
> That would not affect the existing search logic, which currently
> prefers .emacs to ~/.emacs.d/init.el if it finds .emacs

Ah, right.  Then it's fine by me :-)

Steve Berman




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 14:40:35 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 10:40:35 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m18j5-0000lh-L2
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:40:35 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:46808)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rpluim@HIDDEN>) id 1m18j2-0000lT-A7
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:40:34 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id d12so2729653wre.13
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id
 :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=Tnjzh+E9sqiQuMs0Dl+qpkCY8G3LeCgXoZ0GxsTaD2E=;
 b=sqZLJAe47vvNk7qG4YgmOUmCJgbHSa9XN0XCZvpdQMad7gtHSwmRbpqI2cI/U7gFJA
 4MJhJk1k+jYH1DnrCarMcCp+rD20TAzlC7ShoMHv0wlEeDbMi5GZgE/EL1Df+ZfDRCLT
 xAzWv0rBd6kCtWDuxMot1jHJtTkZn2txX7y8YbhcdWZAjA/bYMa8kfChjtRlHHsCChSc
 FRRnsexV/foNilsh/ffCz2WbfFgpLJQrgA1zOYf2M4uZ5dn4c9n/r9sOwuHftTI1AMoP
 r7KG1I5Ss7g4k2ruz2cPfkkxp4HL5IolDuzZufT1YLpWxqW1Op8QNXbnVWGJAXshl5j+
 3IRQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to
 :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=Tnjzh+E9sqiQuMs0Dl+qpkCY8G3LeCgXoZ0GxsTaD2E=;
 b=hs9LZzr8CsYyDCuz1AAIWzAlFmlBpVhcWgOtp5ODQJLa0vBCe+52PL1RNw+rv9S1Ww
 bhByQLNGZP0JMoMQz37GttadTiACy/iuCu9XnCD1s6N3bO6EyWMlWITIVORwfG6QulkU
 wSkleYNM/GB3prIkv/3eJcCapk0CSob2Hq/Yp08PQ+AzY31qbgGyh7TZ7p3fo9bb8rYe
 OpJMgugd1TL7L3nt4CTE0ydKuLbB1E0n7zfXaaUb8zrFsAzJ0CzIvCOqRXxxwRUTaUM2
 GHUTu8YXFlec6lgSVM5l3mEybV4Aw31z3kJCRCt2kGH0l+0fjlnfA3r/90wW4z36BCHB
 u+3g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5331M/ORDxEI1VAFCUSzOfT95Jb+BgXzgJHy/8/Rjk9DlDIHei24
 kyXq/wkAMxalKKgbxWWU0fR1vzDfOFQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrhARdmf4HRAzZYPLc9nC4sNMLu4HAYoiTwn/Vf+y/gHZvELvEinFvwZLcWoGnJ3SITtwABw==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:ff8b:: with SMTP id j11mr28572930wrr.326.1625668826068; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o14sm1258115wmq.31.2021.07.07.07.40.24
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
 <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN> <871r8a43jf.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200
In-Reply-To: <871r8a43jf.fsf@HIDDEN> (Stephen Berman's message of "Wed, 07
 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200")
Message-ID: <87k0m2b31j.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>,
 Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gm=
x.net> said:

    Stephen> One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can us=
e ~/.emacs
    Stephen> to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an ini=
t file,
    Stephen> without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init file
    Stephen> ~/.emacs.d/init.el.  That benefit would be lost if the priorit=
y was
    Stephen> changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init fil=
e and
    Stephen> using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appeali=
ng).

Instead of 'no init files' -> .emacs, we=CA=BCd have 'no init files' ->
~/.emacs.d/init.el

That would not affect the existing search logic, which currently
prefers .emacs to ~/.emacs.d/init.el if it finds .emacs

Robert
--=20




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 14:11:51 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 10:11:51 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m18HG-0008Rm-P6
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:51 -0400
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:56087)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>) id 1m18HE-0008RU-Dk
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:49 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net;
 s=badeba3b8450; t=1625667094;
 bh=hb1MBdHMr/mI4gtf6KGJr4OmHMijBX2fFZ3pLtgc4U0=;
 h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To;
 b=N1ANVhP0+swBEiyXeL6gCcmSCIJnS6m1xGAe4UNXjRgS67HuaiTLKHunmMIXDmW30
 pNOdSz0dMZzVqmmHQoexzasy6pSaZ0VJQZh/Ow+o4GkOUpVFR5QfyJPNSFnLma78+T
 pLufwNpiZpbYAdzhyPsrqttuiw4bnIRFFeybcLYs=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from strobelfs ([84.61.246.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104
 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTAFb-1lc9BB0ylT-00UXC1; Wed, 07
 Jul 2021 16:11:34 +0200
From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
 <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07
 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200")
Message-ID: <871r8a43jf.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:foDaRBWISWl+MD9yeKZBaxePoJVzZu/HCD/v0ime0ZvZN7DHtx4
 D/EJJk2qDFKBsy48AitYt/A+y7u39dO097vpgsSqm8dyF1mje+F1ENqfs69S1hNA0KWEnZz
 40JnjKn1KX2aMFUjHRBzlR0YWNUELAF6/Xx+cFuPTh3rJENhfJt5xqyeRuJ8Q8FyPhDtuPk
 9AwUPgRjW/wcqTv4A1hYQ==
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:huJbMR8tbIg=:xBcxDSAmMlAv8zHdY1Jdur
 6Yb0lNq6Ba+oKa9yDjMBuvG6j+sgjThfPoUmNhd/C/w/lwySMrRhy+yRSEi/+60Esp5sq1CVf
 Mx41lMXVA5y8/xG0oQXGJZfmyLMZVbJPyLm4h8bJWN/EYfbOn8B7w0icMtqqAu78ezQYjCzoo
 NzHsxerKmv+DaOnoLTdIoGn8vjhyUdDDmpGMvO3jIO0y9ONhJOwUNsAQlW5Ya52+UORV18Uoo
 xTVsLGapoQozTCvk/M114eseyywrzeIdHfu/GdkcxmJM3wphl8keRPR13G75zwRXvacbJXTIL
 iQVSnB+803Ml2uM4ezU+mvH8cjX63yMqgCRP3VNPdQwCSrF2pEkZFPEVGomFsWcKzXkLXkLZc
 sDCp4GpfgDDWv5+ZQO5T5+N8NcgwlaOJuuB0aIFi5+DDmOpnW2Z1xfU9IGDH+xwVJ7KfLIrub
 FyRlz6H+K1P2YRvbidGtrog3IRc+LxFFIQVStsLHx3csiGgUaR74Ni+ZWVGPVkonqsOTrSiS3
 R/n3qhcXcMSXKeoiZgcXVZbypO51b5qyBJpSsDfCaOmS2LmP9zwYLsMcdsQL/znUOfWFp+xni
 6tQNtrREg2Tyy//rxYgOI2mrGZUthUocPcLEfy71BjG75O6yKahiDTIjcweTG2OGEMPFe2owM
 3H3kAXNqNIRyak/DnWyqT5dTC1Mf00frLmA9BcrqHLE5vuGB8ZG4UdIXHSxy3d6/XiIuB9Saa
 meN8uEX5NXJQNROA+kY9VELIadJj8SZzkeBJsQVMBlez9izhQ5G3YeVA3Z90HAcqWgO07IxtV
 zR51F/99jdsoxBSNiKGo7OyWGWPk4vBS6pUKLz06chrqrC2wXizV13V+9tdFGlGubmhL84fvf
 HxFT5drrjqXOhaLZYPlt+k2IlBS6y7SBh9fWii+f4tMnBBGTmtrWBmQ2OhILwtAc+qykio8My
 QeJxYJ3ElOnKUi08+2hmUEQ/S7pLDu9IPnmv0lDtV+j7Xli64iy4A2bsV+izCgDD/9x/uLe9A
 cC3I3Y96KPqnVkYXlz9voKHlBtQcaXpbLj6B1iFF26mnltxbv8srLntK9JUDL5CXAfEOjY83A
 9Fw9+2KX2xA1YpF1ZXcqL8Xlp3vZU3Wotqp9aMTQ9NO8qe/jqc5y3HFDQ==
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>,
 Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>, 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200 Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> wrote:

>>>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200, Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN=
z> said:
>
>     Phil> On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote:
>     >> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs =
as
>     >> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if =
we
>     >> want, people who already have init files will not be affected.
>     >> </bold prediction of there being no consequences>
>
>     Phil> I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (use=
d on
>     Phil> multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/=
.emacs
>     Phil> file for config which is local to that particular machine.  The=
 .emacs
>     Phil> file simply loads the init.el file.
>
> That=CA=BCs a different branch of the startup logic :-)
>
> If we change things so that ~/.emacs.d/init.el is used only if there
> is no .emacs, they would not be affected. I think this is already
> the case, but I may be misremembering
>
>     Phil> There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought=
 this
>     Phil> one was quite a neat approach when I heard it.
>
>     Phil> In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely relian=
t on
>     Phil> the current precedence order.
>
>     Phil> In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two
>     Phil> files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so?  =
Even
>     Phil> ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly
>     Phil> cause some confusion for no good reason.
>
> I=CA=BCm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the ca=
se
> where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is
> emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion.

One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can use ~/.emacs
to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an init file,
without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init file
~/.emacs.d/init.el.  That benefit would be lost if the priority was
changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init file and
using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appealing).

Steve Berman




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 13:10:36 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 09:10:36 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51128 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m17K0-0006L9-0S
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:10:36 -0400
Received: from mail-wm1-f54.google.com ([209.85.128.54]:37641)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rpluim@HIDDEN>) id 1m17Jv-0006Kj-5u
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:10:34 -0400
Received: by mail-wm1-f54.google.com with SMTP id
 y21-20020a7bc1950000b02902161fccabf1so972168wmi.2
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id
 :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=1A8uyEXKVqbrzL7Hy4i+ZdlBkmvoJXCYlFciz08swH0=;
 b=SnAD01wocBQfaKzo5RGoug3F88Zo9vyR1Bh71AGwYsy6VMqA9NLMclRU6YtjpZvj25
 cQlZlDE/m7n70gtSzvxTUStMRcWBK55HVszbqcH4gPSxPMNWyn9MITEk1fuRFcVtSgh7
 HFxvjHUKRit/gJe8Hqqgzw2jgh8Cj/hTbV9ZRgF2fvZB1Utl/gATUsHZAK//Rf3vrZnp
 u6lQf+afx1cwgwOYw57aSkpCXlOgGMAw3vJ6KXFA9ftKESFo2DMTxtUFTrXKZiLnvR1W
 rAsUY3Fc3D4eDy4i1m0gmsY60MxygJ2b2skWSFg2Y9W/NcMK9LMzJnX0Xb7t8JEguj4M
 TCmQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to
 :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=1A8uyEXKVqbrzL7Hy4i+ZdlBkmvoJXCYlFciz08swH0=;
 b=JyOZ9tsNmcdPtRE602IZrpvfEPey6W/slNjQtfP/nVYZIqE7ZXnsZH7hj8JSma1E2C
 Uiv6xQA8P5k3Oo/naZj0/OTt9fxGL+kXNVJ44mhvzWZuVgOP+vg2Qe1OFF0e5WYLa0k6
 4cuySKVzjE/+2QASjgXyB8D2CsHsOb5YaioYgdbB5ygVvQvXpMlhwtyf93OFVmojd3Wk
 g44TPeE0JENKVgfQJMzNPKqGI4vxlOBws62n6DKQf/mJrMb8TnPJBNJslnjUD/kBM+rd
 m8mo0oqa+ieC52YBJAcPjQ3axtEdMMf8g9Ceu22MeDZGvSIiSDJKXmHUINtvcC4T0jA/
 XhwA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531EzfaZgmSNXAzz/hrN05ZNAHvrw+bW0KYX4//acDNpXStx8Jhz
 n6EwUN436k9NCAC5jl/UKsFt//rOxKk=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxbexrTUVgwcpMAJoiiz8Fux2nXmjmo8nVkTtjhnQeFJcgxspjRU/pOGr63n068y/nLhlLOug==
X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c002:: with SMTP id c2mr26663630wmb.118.1625663425265; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e8sm20499797wrq.10.2021.07.07.06.10.24
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Rudolf Schlatte <rudi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m21r8az7kx.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:10:24 +0200
In-Reply-To: <m21r8az7kx.fsf@HIDDEN> (Rudolf Schlatte's message of
 "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200")
Message-ID: <87o8beb77j.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200, Rudolf Schlatte <rudi@constantly.=
at> said:

    Rudolf> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

    >> Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and
    >> .emacs don=CA=BCt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it
    >> exists and .emacs doesn=CA=BCt.

    Rudolf> I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more =
than one
    Rudolf> of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init f=
iles
    Rudolf> detected.  Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/ini=
t.el"

A warning prominent enough for people to notice would also be annoying
enough that people would complain about us changing the status quo out
from under them. The best we could do is putting something in
*Messages*, I suspect

Robert
--=20




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 13:08:32 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 09:08:32 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m17I0-0006H6-HN
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:08:32 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:33435)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rpluim@HIDDEN>) id 1m17Hx-0006Gp-9k
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:08:31 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id d2so3063861wrn.0
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id
 :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=NZ/HBBvRePwpK39Fmt2U3TBzPtrnUBHDelvngxeC5xA=;
 b=dzlVlakN/d0S6igDPu50U6ApoyDOb/IIKLLBV8WrRDdPoMtnKdOkp3xU16+KwmHxaW
 CuuLGvvJvDFlE6nHQ4pMgBIUrQCrQiJwtXv068cL7G0P/o8yJjUSzDE0ZX1aaXGGxn4B
 Q0EjCBrYJVG42dW+iaLMXSG1HSGsZo6t/m6uAParMMA7WtnpRgNg1uRi5Ee3R5wAUubx
 JlSX02OcktAu6+bec5UGNla5uO4YZSYf5+RPwkPxR/LvLaAnWB7t+L1ZNbZmQsz7M4eb
 RzkaH58U2KH8FelTHSvoRitfEOB5duZllYN94spY7oVYCOn+HgAwJh06p/E2ZwzHMuln
 Cd4Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to
 :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=NZ/HBBvRePwpK39Fmt2U3TBzPtrnUBHDelvngxeC5xA=;
 b=Ddwd0jvcoscYwEeH62RlT7Br8vGDGZKXBXn3QNd+dHV7wU+xRcCQ2ZwsIsCZCXMZHU
 Iz3d7JNo25BAIlCmUup6cVzEgzS2Boxa36eo34bWBC2JLMCV7JK78ogJxW3ZINgIZJxz
 KXqInydhdRy3cY4VvbuxP7IavWU6d5XZEiCo7p1Mn/XcxpqGdLwt5ixGZ03Ps9ViWAic
 A0r0wxJ/8rUHK0dUYlkCv2ONs4qHHZ8ktSYs0xDlA1rrO7rrrkaOz2Z9G9DAt8E/uNt4
 jSChvoL7Yh3q5BhIf4qYJNcgbBgutf6FPo7NonbM50qZRdWicntDVYwTB6flkhVpnHIz
 FSaA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530q7YD5toYW9OdPu7BnxvZ+XKNB86LvO/4roI0eSL/5yVzl3tT4
 KPFEq2xigp0KLOWlksTIWdbRVSTIDb8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyseSx3nwXc0gpfjhl/rcPozZ36lo8dCZC/hPxn7MHr49rtBsICtvLK23ZZ5ty8L35bcUIWXA==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:dc8b:: with SMTP id r11mr28493542wrj.363.1625663303118; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l2sm18700673wms.20.2021.07.07.06.08.21
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200
In-Reply-To: <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN> (Phil
 Sainty's message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200")
Message-ID: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>,
 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

>>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200, Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN=
> said:

    Phil> On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote:
    >> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as
    >> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we
    >> want, people who already have init files will not be affected.
    >> </bold prediction of there being no consequences>

    Phil> I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (used =
on
    Phil> multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/.e=
macs
    Phil> file for config which is local to that particular machine.  The .=
emacs
    Phil> file simply loads the init.el file.

That=CA=BCs a different branch of the startup logic :-)

If we change things so that ~/.emacs.d/init.el is used only if there
is no .emacs, they would not be affected. I think this is already
the case, but I may be misremembering

    Phil> There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought t=
his
    Phil> one was quite a neat approach when I heard it.

    Phil> In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely reliant =
on
    Phil> the current precedence order.

    Phil> In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two
    Phil> files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so?  Ev=
en
    Phil> ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly
    Phil> cause some confusion for no good reason.

I=CA=BCm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the case
where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is
emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion.

Robert
--=20




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 12:24:32 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 08:24:31 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m16bP-00054G-ME
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 08:24:31 -0400
Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:43749)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1m16bL-000541-6h
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 08:24:30 -0400
Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=49207 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz)
 by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m16bG-0007k7-E6; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200
Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85])
 via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz
 with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
 format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200
From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <c98842368bd008b4e5b88e1863be4cd8@HIDDEN>
X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN
User-Agent: Orcon Webmail
X-GeoIP: --
X-Spam_score: -2.9
X-Spam_score_int: -28
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>,
 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)

On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote:
> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as
> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we
> want, people who already have init files will not be affected.
> </bold prediction of there being no consequences>

I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (used on
multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/.emacs
file for config which is local to that particular machine.  The .emacs
file simply loads the init.el file.

There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought this
one was quite a neat approach when I heard it.

In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely reliant on
the current precedence order.

In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two
files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so?  Even
ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly
cause some confusion for no good reason.


-Phil





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 11:31:18 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 07:31:18 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m15lt-0002if-Vy
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:18 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:54118)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m15lq-0002fh-HX
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:16 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34350)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m15lq-0006ze-9Z
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:14 -0400
Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:58356)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m15lo-0005tX-MV
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:14 -0400
Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92)
 (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m15lk-000AKQ-Ok
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:31:08 +0200
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
From: Rudolf Schlatte <rudi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200
Message-ID: <m21r8az7kx.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:05CoOOrL84W9U07R8DCpY28Eh9U=
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214;
 envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; helo=ciao.gmane.io
X-Spam_score_int: -15
X-Spam_score: -1.6
X-Spam_bar: -
X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9,
 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--)

Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> On Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> said:
>
>     Lars> Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN> writes:
>     >> The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says:
>     >> 
>     >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
>     >>> the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file.
>     >> 
>     >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
>     >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.
>
> Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs'
>
>     Lars> That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd changed that
>     Lars> to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no
>     Lars> previous init file?
>
> Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and
> .emacs donʼt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it
> exists and .emacs doesnʼt.

I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more than one
of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init files
detected.  Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/init.el"





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 09:17:34 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 05:17:34 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50885 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m13gT-0004E6-QQ
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:17:34 -0400
Received: from mail-wm1-f52.google.com ([209.85.128.52]:42800)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rpluim@HIDDEN>) id 1m13gR-0004Dr-Qf
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:17:32 -0400
Received: by mail-wm1-f52.google.com with SMTP id
 j16-20020a05600c1c10b0290204b096b0caso1202451wms.1
 for <49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:31 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
 h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id
 :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=zdAsuvU2w0sl1QXkOwpnotzjBQKENgFXZKVLq/oHaLM=;
 b=ObfrNCNg9icPfrz3TGyJIioPfv2n8XWQbeup2iFqqe2WQIItCt5VK1DhbSJP85g6FV
 9EWBTUIi6VKfdBahR+f2HzYNXWoqaxtLULKiEucZDfh/h+2L0HafL1IsGM1E+H+Cdu4d
 Dr5NwV9AWYcnqCGfFtu237aj0gemfJX5k2QeU7lhCYAhmwFP4JM6d4+60Sp//3p9BG0V
 ynOm8fOdIdRHeSc5oeZgHIpZJLaXmrkKFwx6wy1TE2akHDZwCr02ucQwSzgRREXMWQ3c
 KZa6/leCR2fx+xPJRV8jk6eeitXyTUp/dEXPvstrrrPK2b+lUNbMxjYBU4/m/v9YyxXj
 iFYg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to
 :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=zdAsuvU2w0sl1QXkOwpnotzjBQKENgFXZKVLq/oHaLM=;
 b=hVtf/1AGL3yWMrJaarwO8KAV8nobJa+ZyncTsnQpBp//hJqanSh32ZbkTWMUhB9BOP
 Yl84/obqSlzYfTrhjIU/Mn+2jrXV9rmB0ea1M5QjTrv+11esE9tL2iUa0Qxak3UmtUsG
 avrmOjp5Y63hZvpVAgWVa3XtAfLxwF9OIdUrQJTlzgUwJodst66LyQuMwJgxT4OZqFnO
 yo8IiIi74W3x8BLVHdc0gHK+Nlw54/WWexfNtYnDOuXKKKZ71CidnLVj3qbgLO64Awam
 CEzIGGHE0Hn4XEsU4rfsiqpjljaZT1D/rp7oSwNSy+A0yH2YUqdhsSg1Hox/sdGLfdxx
 SysA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531aKDmrZAHKWjZG0cvdNt1+vJY+AfaRyXweNKwpm8cMVas6lkAK
 /vvYoNTH4HqtOOlfa08ghaxU8qKtv4s=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9QZGO8jQBJoNgJr2UJTdHvbnC0ZQHm8UoWin8y/aUiXvNh51YZjna/FSJc541gH9UsQKVfQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c844:: with SMTP id c4mr5598639wml.107.1625649445596; 
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b15sm23525149wrr.27.2021.07.07.02.17.24
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:17:23 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue,
 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200")
Message-ID: <87zguybhzw.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

>>>>> On Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN=
> said:

    Lars> Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN> writes:
    >> The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80=
=9D says:
    >>=20
    >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
    >>> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 f=
or the init file.
    >>=20
    >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
    >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.

Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs'

    Lars> That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd chang=
ed that
    Lars> to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no
    Lars> previous init file?

Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and
.emacs don=CA=BCt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it
exists and .emacs doesn=CA=BCt.

If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as
the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we
want, people who already have init files will not be affected.
</bold prediction of there being no consequences>

Robert
--=20




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 15:11:52 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 11:11:52 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m0mjo-00016N-Bu
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:11:52 -0400
Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41358)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1m0mjj-000164-Ci
 for 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:11:51 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org;
 s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID
 :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:
 Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc
 :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:
 List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive;
 bh=KqEQrJZxMKkh4ToZvE4aoZyF8JYRR81/+QbHUWgtGAc=; b=Jyp/zWPS+BrPAv+ljCFEAw9cFx
 ISCOIliFCS6ZlbEODoqOUtQfC/g8wTe0C0I4LEd4luFzVH8hcBMhg7MBK7CVzgUNghkXbFHFmsbmE
 yovLO0P/Dfmu+aWDuiCGsyoc9jtVqQlSPeJsURVNRFa1Yac5J2/qd00/kNal+xW8OJY0=;
Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva)
 by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m0mja-0002Jv-Li; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:41 +0200
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
References: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Now-Playing: Black Midi's _Live on Canal St, NYC_: "Live on Canal St, NYC"
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200
In-Reply-To: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN> (Peter Oliver's
 message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2021 23:56:50 +0100")
Message-ID: <87bl7fscid.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org",
 has NOT identified this incoming email as spam.  The original
 message has been attached to this so you can view it or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details.
 
 Content preview:  Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN> writes: > The info
   page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > >> For brevity the
    rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just >> the current default
    location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (-2.9 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED            Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP
 -1.9 BAYES_00               BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
                             [score: 0.0000]
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424
Cc: 49424 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN> writes:

> The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80=9D say=
s:
>
>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
>> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for th=
e init file.
>
> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user
> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.

That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd changed that
to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no
previous init file?

--=20
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2021 22:57:12 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 05 18:57:12 2021
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46823 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1m0XWa-0002yk-9m
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:12 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38604)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <mavit@HIDDEN>) id 1m0XWY-0002yc-Ap
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:10 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60364)
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mavit@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m0XWY-0000Hc-1A
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:10 -0400
Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::430]:44839)
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mavit@HIDDEN>)
 id 1m0XWV-0006x4-5c
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:08 -0400
Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id t15so20393328wry.11
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google;
 h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version
 :content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=BSJOOibhniojA1mGZOmyc2c//c6QdW2n0PYHAGOpHE0=;
 b=D5giG0/vwga7BVDDxYc91wsWmlcPLfQuKjPHvEnjnV1mThox17A0Ul4NwOnj8xoXd1
 NGpcO2MqLJZg1DR9mhBUfPxoHHttL3Qf1THjfIjr1A+4a9lFv0KaTkWaiJq6mudmDOD+
 4lg5CCCAvPt+Cmrzh0o8hW9qYKaGdgd6A2Bs4=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
 h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version
 :content-transfer-encoding;
 bh=BSJOOibhniojA1mGZOmyc2c//c6QdW2n0PYHAGOpHE0=;
 b=Tc7heli4AiZY4tebDfWdpDVf/JhaPG35JGCMLvFtKEp3vM4L2/C7UEPo9I4kj6zoQS
 3gOTFfJ9MI70/RY12r9YRR5+ypoOxRHmEakBoV5ivnvLOQkAtIYrXxLDObaPhCGy/Sik
 04vnwwbCrf3PS4lf7tXhRs+ONiWrdhX83T2by1vD3iYFqatQfyWy/TwYSZrhzAVs8UWz
 79zZmkITFkHUMHw+KGGkEvmSSisx9Lbo4KzNlB6UdP0XREv9gWV/uv2t1QqGUlbpTJQ8
 sEWeXKX9gkmdKEb6PRhVhOzqCxJIUnqJ+i3NUdd/baoZJst3wbnsS6N0Q5t6038ZZ/LJ
 MZ5A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53369BbcBKmaKtpiPrmUmzQoUcZRs4Q+O64QVBvjB05A2Hmhs3vz
 TU7NRM+7Ii8I8vvwYMxjKh+A0FHh9tFcBA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyLrCHG4GDoeRBy6kYPalEjh1S9FRADBr7zFpgKyMg4W/aK6L/TOqlngKlxIe8mV/t7SJWU7A==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:8bc9:: with SMTP id w9mr17582802wra.378.1625525823815; 
 Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk
 (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33])
 by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y8sm14381043wrr.76.2021.07.05.15.57.02
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 165Mv16R051609
 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT)
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:57:01 +0100
Received: (from mavit@localhost)
 by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 165Mv1XC051608;
 Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:57:01 +0100
From: Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 23:56:50 +0100
Message-ID: <w53wnq4id3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430;
 envelope-from=mavit@HIDDEN; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com
X-Spam_score_int: -20
X-Spam_score: -2.1
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,
 DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1,
 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--)


The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80=9D says:

> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just
> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for the=
 init file.

However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user and ma=
ke a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.=20=20


In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.29, =
cairo version 1.17.4)
 of 2021-05-25 built on 67aec83703474aab90196a48063fea20
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000
System Description: Fedora 34 (Workstation Edition)

Configured using:
 'configure --build=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 --host=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --program-prefix=3D
 --disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=3D/usr --exec-prefix=3D/usr
 --bindir=3D/usr/bin --sbindir=3D/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=3D/etc
 --datadir=3D/usr/share --includedir=3D/usr/include --libdir=3D/usr/lib64
 --libexecdir=3D/usr/libexec --localstatedir=3D/var
 --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --mandir=3D/usr/share/man
 --infodir=3D/usr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png
 --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3
 --with-gpm=3Dno --with-xwidgets --with-modules --with-harfbuzz
 --with-cairo --with-json build_alias=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 host_alias=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu CC=3Dgcc 'CFLAGS=3D-DMAIL_USE_LOCKF -=
O2
 -flto=3Dauto -ffat-lto-objects -fexceptions -g -grecord-gcc-switches
 -pipe -Wall -Werror=3Dformat-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2
 -Wp,-D_GLIBCXX_ASSERTIONS
 -specs=3D/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-hardened-cc1 -fstack-protector-strong
 -specs=3D/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-annobin-cc1 -m64 -mtune=3Dgeneric
 -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection'
 LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=3D:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF
ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS
LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER GMP

--=20
Peter Oliver




Acknowledgement sent to Peter Oliver <p.d.oliver@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#49424; Package emacs. Full text available.
Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.
Last modified: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 01:30:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.