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Subject: bug#4980: 23.1.50; In File > Quit GUI, add "Cancel", write "Save", and simplify
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When I try to quit Emacs by clicking File > Quit, I see seven choices:

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

Save file foo.txt?

*  Yes
*  No
*  View This Buffer
*  View Changes In This Buffer
*  Save This But No More
*  Save All Buffers
*  No For All

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

1.  As dak wrote in 2008 at
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/65537/focus=100634 there's
no Cancel button.  "Closing the dialog window happens to achieve that
... but it is not really obvious."  Please add a Cancel button.

2.  For the first choice, instead of writing "Yes", write "Save".
Usability researchers have found that action verbs are always better
when a list of choices is provided.  I can explain why if you require
it.

3.  The seven choices act as a confusing way to ask me which files to
save.  Instead, as Joshua Juran <jjuran@HIDDEN> suggested to me in
Freenode #macdev, you should use a dialog box like "gedit" uses (
screenshot at http://omploader.org/vMnQzaw ; download gedit for
Windows / Mac at http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ ):

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

[!] There are 2 document(s) with unsaved changes.
Save before closing?

Select the documents you want to save:
| [x] foo.txt    |
| [x] bar.txt    |
|                |
|                |

If you don't save, your changes will be lost.
                                                 ________     ______
[ Close &without Saving ] [       &Cancel     ] [________&Save______]

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Don't offer view-buffer or view-changes choices in a GUI.  You see, a
GUI should be simple instead of listing every possible choice the user
might conceivably want.  If the user wants to do so, they can click
Cancel then do so themselves.



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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System)
To: "Jason A. Spiro" <jasonspiro4@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#4980: Acknowledgement (23.1.50; In File > Quit GUI, add
 "Cancel", write "Save", and simplify)
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:10:05 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with Emacs.

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Subject: bug#4980: 23.1.50; In File > Quit GUI, add "Cancel", write  "Save", and simplify
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From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:38:16 +0100
Message-ID: <e01d8a50911191538w73f9e9b4r534e946645ee2777@HIDDEN>
To: "Jason A. Spiro" <jasonspiro4@HIDDEN>, 4980 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Jason A. Spiro <jasonspiro4@HIDDEN> wr=
ote:
> When I try to quit Emacs by clicking File > Quit, I see seven choices:
>
> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
> Save file foo.txt?
>
> * =C2=A0Yes
> * =C2=A0No
> * =C2=A0View This Buffer
> * =C2=A0View Changes In This Buffer
> * =C2=A0Save This But No More
> * =C2=A0Save All Buffers
> * =C2=A0No For All
>
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
> 1. =C2=A0As dak wrote in 2008 at
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/65537/focus=3D100634 there's
> no Cancel button. =C2=A0"Closing the dialog window happens to achieve tha=
t
> ... but it is not really obvious." =C2=A0Please add a Cancel button.


Aggeed.


> 2. =C2=A0For the first choice, instead of writing "Yes", write "Save".
> Usability researchers have found that action verbs are always better
> when a list of choices is provided. =C2=A0I can explain why if you requir=
e
> it.


Agreed. There is no reason for yes/no here. Use verbs to make it clear.


> 3. =C2=A0The seven choices act as a confusing way to ask me which files t=
o
> save. =C2=A0Instead, as Joshua Juran <jjuran@HIDDEN> suggested to me i=
n
> Freenode #macdev, you should use a dialog box like "gedit" uses (
> screenshot at http://omploader.org/vMnQzaw ; download gedit for
> Windows / Mac at http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ ):

> (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>
> [!] There are 2 document(s) with unsaved changes.
> Save before closing?
>
> Select the documents you want to save:
> | [x] foo.txt =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> | [x] bar.txt =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
>
> If you don't save, your changes will be lost.
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ________ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______
> [ Close &without Saving ] [ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &Cancel =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ] =
[________&Save______]
>
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


Yes, a dialog box is better. But it should be cross platform. No one
has yet tried to write this for w32. (I do not know for other
platforms.)


> Don't offer view-buffer or view-changes choices in a GUI. =C2=A0You see, =
a
> GUI should be simple instead of listing every possible choice the user
> might conceivably want. =C2=A0If the user wants to do so, they can click
> Cancel then do so themselves.


Not sure. This is for experienced users also. Fast ways are useful,
but maybe not when using dialog boxes.



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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (Emacs bug Tracking System)
To: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#4980: Info received (bug#4980: 23.1.50; In File > Quit GUI,
 add "Cancel", write  "Save", and simplify)
Message-ID: <handler.4980.B4980.125867392427207.ackinfo@HIDDEN>
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X-Emacs-PR-Message: ack-info 4980
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Reply-To: 4980 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:45:05 +0000

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4980: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D4980
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems


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Subject: bug#4980: 23.1.50;	In File > Quit GUI, add "Cancel", write  "Save", and simplify
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Lennart Borgman wrote:
> Not sure. This is for experienced users also. Fast ways are useful,
> but maybe not when using dialog boxes.
>   

Personally I only see a need for a dialog with 3 buttons. "Close without 
saving" "Save All" and "Cancel"

Anything more complicated and the user can Cancel, resolve the situation 
and attempt to exit again.




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To: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#4980: Info received (bug#4980: 23.1.50;	In File > Quit GUI,
 add "Cancel", write  "Save", and simplify)
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Reply-To: 4980 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:05:05 +0000

Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Jason Rumney <jasonr@HIDDEN>
Cc: 4980 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
        Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@HIDDEN>,
        "Jason A. Spiro" <jasonspiro4@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:31:18 -0500
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	2009 11:59:41 +0800")
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> Personally I only see a need for a dialog with 3 buttons. "Close without
> saving" "Save All" and "Cancel"

Agreed.


        Stefan



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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: "Jason A. Spiro" <jasonspiro4@HIDDEN>
Cc: 4980 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Organization: JURTA
References: <c241693f0911191505t2cb29a8ex718af639bdf13cbe@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:31:42 +0200
In-Reply-To: <c241693f0911191505t2cb29a8ex718af639bdf13cbe@HIDDEN>
	(Jason A. Spiro's message of "Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:05:27 -0500")
Message-ID: <87fx89649t.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> 1.  As dak wrote in 2008 at
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/65537/focus=100634 there's
> no Cancel button.  "Closing the dialog window happens to achieve that
> ... but it is not really obvious."  Please add a Cancel button.
>
> 2.  For the first choice, instead of writing "Yes", write "Save".
> Usability researchers have found that action verbs are always better
> when a list of choices is provided.  I can explain why if you require
> it.
>
> 3.  The seven choices act as a confusing way to ask me which files to
> save.  Instead, as Joshua Juran <jjuran@HIDDEN> suggested to me in
> Freenode #macdev, you should use a dialog box like "gedit" uses (
> screenshot at http://omploader.org/vMnQzaw ; download gedit for
> Windows / Mac at http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ ):

The graphical version of the closing dialog window is modelled
after the corresponding minibuffer prompts.

So if we are going to change "Yes/No" to "Quit without saving",
"Save All" and "Cancel" (I wholeheartedly welcome this change
since a "Yes/No" question is dangerous to lose unsaved changes),
then we have to modify the minibuffer prompts too.

Maybe in the non-graphical version we should display a list of unsaved
buffers (in a fashion like the *Buffer List* for `C-x C-b') like
we display the process list when quitting with running processes.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/



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Jason A. Spiro skrev:

> 
> [!] There are 2 document(s) with unsaved changes.
> Save before closing?
> 
> Select the documents you want to save:
> | [x] foo.txt    |
> | [x] bar.txt    |
> |                |
> |                |
> 
> If you don't save, your changes will be lost.
>                                                  ________     ______
> [ Close &without Saving ] [       &Cancel     ] [________&Save______]
> 
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> 
> Don't offer view-buffer or view-changes choices in a GUI.  You see, a
> GUI should be simple instead of listing every possible choice the user
> might conceivably want.  If the user wants to do so, they can click
> Cancel then do so themselves.
> 

It is a good idea.  However, the dialog functions in Emacs can't currently do 
this in a generic way (that is from elisp).

Close is not a good word.  You close a dialog and a frame, but you quit or 
exit the application.

So IMHO "Close without Saving" should be "Exit without Saving" and "Save" 
should be "Save and Exit" or prehaps "Save marked and Exit" (if indeed that is 
what Save does, it isn't clear).

	Jan D.




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Subject: bug#4980: Info received (bug#4980: 23.1.50;	In File > Quit GUI,
 add "Cancel", write "Save", and simplify)
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Jason A. Spiro skrev:

> 
> [!] There are 2 document(s) with unsaved changes.
> Save before closing?
> 
> Select the documents you want to save:
> | [x] foo.txt    |
> | [x] bar.txt    |
> |                |
> |                |
> 
> If you don't save, your changes will be lost.
>                                                  ________     ______
> [ Close &without Saving ] [       &Cancel     ] [________&Save______]
> 
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> 
> Don't offer view-buffer or view-changes choices in a GUI.  You see, a
> GUI should be simple instead of listing every possible choice the user
> might conceivably want.  If the user wants to do so, they can click
> Cancel then do so themselves.
> 

It is a good idea.  However, the dialog functions in Emacs can't currently do 
this in a generic way (that is from elisp).

Close is not a good word.  You close a dialog and a frame, but you quit or 
exit the application.

So IMHO "Close without Saving" should be "Exit without Saving" and "Save" 
should be "Save and Exit" or prehaps "Save marked and Exit" (if indeed that is 
what Save does, it isn't clear).

	Jan D.




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Subject: bug#4980: Info received (bug#4980: 23.1.50;	In File > Quit GUI,
 add "Cancel", write "Save", and simplify)
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severity 4980 minor
reassign 4983 spam
reassign 4985 spam
reassign 4986 spam
severity 4987 wishlist
reassign 4989 spam
reassign 4990 spam
reassign 4991 spam
reassign 4992 emacs,etags
reassign 4984 emacs,cc-mode




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