GNU bug report logs - #50447
[PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 03:31:39 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Severity: wishlist

The section in the Emacs FAQ about NEWS in various Emacs versions
going back to version 20 is interesting as a historical exercise, but
probably not relevant in an FAQ.

I suggest we remove anything older than Emacs 24 at this point.  See
the attached patch.

[0001-Remove-very-old-NEWS-from-the-FAQ.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 09:08:55 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 03:31:39 +0200
> 
> The section in the Emacs FAQ about NEWS in various Emacs versions
> going back to version 20 is interesting as a historical exercise, but
> probably not relevant in an FAQ.
> 
> I suggest we remove anything older than Emacs 24 at this point.  See
> the attached patch.

Rationale?  Without that, the only way of finding when some important
feature was added is by tediously searching NEWS.

I say let's leave those 200 lines alone, they don't cause any trouble
to anyone.

Message #11 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:42:42 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Rationale?
>
> Without that, the only way of finding when some important
> feature was added is by tediously searching NEWS.

The intended audience of the FAQ is end-users, not core developers
going spelunking.  It is not useful information for that audience.

Nothing is lost, you can just look at an old version of the FAQ.  But
if you really need to look at these summaries often, we could perhaps
move them to a separate file in admin/notes or something.  Are they
really that important?

Message #14 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 11:10:21 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 08:42:42 +0200
> Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> The intended audience of the FAQ is end-users, not core developers
> going spelunking.  It is not useful information for that audience.

Developers are also users.

> Nothing is lost, you can just look at an old version of the FAQ.  But
> if you really need to look at these summaries often, we could perhaps
> move them to a separate file in admin/notes or something.  Are they
> really that important?

We never deleted from the FAQ anything, except stuff that is no longer
correct, did we?  Why start now?

Again, what's the rationale?

Message #17 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 01:22:23 +1200

On 2021-09-07 18:42, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> The intended audience of the FAQ is end-users, not core developers
> going spelunking.  It is not useful information for that audience.

I think they're (a) interesting, and (b) not causing any problems.

Reading the NEWS for a major release takes quite a long time, so
I think it's nice that there's also a small "selected highlights"
for historical releases.  As a user, I think it's interesting to
learn when Emacs acquired certain features.

Moreover, the node which gets you to them is tiny -- this small
list of links surely isn't taking up any undesirable space, and
no one who isn't interested in the history is going to be following
those links; so to me they seem entirely harmless (for all users),
and useful (for some users).  On that basis, I wouldn't remove them.


-Phil

Message #20 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: "50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:43:08 +0000

> I say let's leave those 200 lines alone, they don't cause any trouble
> to anyone.

+1

Message #23 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 14:49:50 +0000

> > Without that, the only way of finding when some important
> > feature was added is by tediously searching NEWS.
> 
> The intended audience of the FAQ is end-users, not core developers
> going spelunking.  It is not useful information for that audience.

Emacs users can spelunk also.  A narrow idea of
users (in this case Emacs users) is the bane of
free software.

Even siphoning off some idea of "end-users" is
limiting.  Anyone using Emacs in any way is an
"end-user", so term has no useful meaning.  An
Emacs "end-user" can be an expert user and
developer, and can be an active contributor to
Emacs development.  Or not.

Message #26 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:23:10 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> The section in the Emacs FAQ about NEWS in various Emacs versions
> going back to version 20 is interesting as a historical exercise, but
> probably not relevant in an FAQ.
>
> I suggest we remove anything older than Emacs 24 at this point.  See
> the attached patch.

I think the old sections are perhaps pretty interesting to users, so I'd
rather leave them where they are.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #29 received at 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 50447 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50447: [PATCH] Remove very old NEWS from the FAQ
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 18:22:03 +0200

tags 50447 notabug
close 50447
thanks


Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> I think the old sections are perhaps pretty interesting to users, so I'd
> rather leave them where they are.

OK, the people have spoken.  Let's close this.

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