Received: (at 50467) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2022 14:26:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 25 10:26:59 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50936 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oRDow-0005kK-Vx for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:26:59 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:32834) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oRDou-0005k7-TM for 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:26:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=p5jqEIDwXFxb00Sr094MUH4ELvG5+fJF9488dWAlDGM=; b=EdCQPdbpmfJ3dn90D3ypLcRjnL R1ZtCP3uEs8+DjA31WuLRYPOFTs3iqZUlMMRHKgAWXLLUFFxMiBt6xhd+uTCWbHyedRfTjaDQmALZ fCgewnu32m5yIx0TO0MhZfay17js9mCeswMrNjb3nmITZrjMovQ1zXW4t+WGJw2XZI2c=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oRDom-00007X-Eq; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:26:50 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? In-Reply-To: <83y284j41z.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:14:00 +0300") References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=T6w8c5jt5Xj0THZL=oLB-ZA2jpOxPh6dvs=Pb6DV_NA@HIDDEN> <83y284j41z.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Shrink_: "Chemicals" Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 16:26:47 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7w8iel4.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> How important is this consideration? In other words, how serious of a >> breakage are we risking? For example, if it is just that the index >> entries won't work in other info readers, that seems a [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> How important is this consideration? In other words, how serious of a >> breakage are we risking? For example, if it is just that the index >> entries won't work in other info readers, that seems acceptable to me. > > It is serious enough that the Texinfo manual advises against it. > Which in practice means we should use it sparingly, only for very > important attributes that aren't readily accessible otherwise. It seems like the info readers now support quoted node names (see bug#57277), but info.el doesn't.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 50467) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2021 07:14:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 10 03:14:41 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mOakC-0002YQ-C2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:14:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41436) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mOajw-0002Xv-W6 for 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:14:39 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mOajr-0002iH-Jn; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:14:19 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1038 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mOajr-0003yH-61; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:14:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:14:00 +0300 Message-Id: <83y284j41z.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=T6w8c5jt5Xj0THZL=oLB-ZA2jpOxPh6dvs=Pb6DV_NA@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 10 Sep 2021 09:00:00 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=T6w8c5jt5Xj0THZL=oLB-ZA2jpOxPh6dvs=Pb6DV_NA@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 09:00:00 +0200 > Cc: 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > [Sorry, I missed replying to these below points so I'll do that here.] > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > One problem here is that use of the colon character in index entries > > should be avoided, as some Info readers could get confused by that > > (the colon is a special character in Info file format). > > How important is this consideration? In other words, how serious of a > breakage are we risking? For example, if it is just that the index > entries won't work in other info readers, that seems acceptable to me. It is serious enough that the Texinfo manual advises against it. Which in practice means we should use it sparingly, only for very important attributes that aren't readily accessible otherwise. > > Also, most of the keywords are, or should be, found by using their > > "family name". For example, for faces we have "face attributes" in > > the index. > > This is the workflow that I wanted to avoid. For example, I might not > know which section ":align-to" belongs to, which means that the > fastest way for me to find out is to search the entire manual. Where the "family name" is not obvious, and the attribute is important or popular, it is indeed justified to have a separate index entry. I agree that :align-to is one such example, so it's okay to add it. One other consideration is that Info-index uses substring matches, so having an index entry :foo runs the risk of its turning up in searches for "foo", which could be undesirable if "foo" is a general enough word, like "weight" or similar.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 50467) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2021 07:00:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 10 03:00:18 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mOaWI-0002E6-Io for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:00:18 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f53.google.com ([209.85.216.53]:55024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mOaWH-0002Dq-NL for 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:00:18 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f53.google.com with SMTP id oc9so737040pjb.4 for <50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:00:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8ygKTZlPfNIUmFvrd/0EDpxWfzURUGK6MGXwN0tv15c=; b=PEYa4dY3qme3aplEPYGrEIn8uWyuSRyZctRuBYaZw7PfLZkKLi0r+K6d7uCg57h1B4 FhM9cKIGSaoYtUrJMrI+mU54oBpU56oy4EorGYtc7OIqtzJnP9hfb1hoepZc9ypR9KvV omZ9OIzjj/t4W6P51NXijZ5xV3vxTy6AdMtiJEL2F3RxiSBedLEgKkjmW7WeviKHTrfz e8o7RkgZyn55NTYDBBh3wpH3B4/XdKzQJbVmeqYB3Jysv6HqN+TVTDHh896ORda1YOU7 xXjbTc3SWwKiK5ssHAM8Vin7mthvnMsvaHt9YGd+4QDsgds39t/mYUFu2XccEKWrdrhn VSyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530arAWe9J4qZyst2jbZkLOiJk1x9xs1ZrnbxGb+E/syivarnxnd 7MPM6zdEQRJvknxzz7BTv4PK+d+ceekeFPBdI0Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzN1dpKBkM7r8GnHUW7bTM6Bj2Kk2zijj8XjLdO+dapu0KqIIj3vYZmQu7zei0PceAVyw5U+9joNUUSZ0wtp4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3812:: with SMTP id mq18mr7814246pjb.143.1631257211889; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 00:00:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 09:00:00 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=T6w8c5jt5Xj0THZL=oLB-ZA2jpOxPh6dvs=Pb6DV_NA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) [Sorry, I missed replying to these below points so I'll do that here.] Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > One problem here is that use of the colon character in index entries > should be avoided, as some Info readers could get confused by that > (the colon is a special character in Info file format). How important is this consideration? In other words, how serious of a breakage are we risking? For example, if it is just that the index entries won't work in other info readers, that seems acceptable to me. > Also, most of the keywords are, or should be, found by using their > "family name". For example, for faces we have "face attributes" in > the index. This is the workflow that I wanted to avoid. For example, I might not know which section ":align-to" belongs to, which means that the fastest way for me to find out is to search the entire manual. This is less convenient than typing 'i :a TAB'.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 50467) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2021 06:54:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 10 02:54:53 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mOaR2-00022Y-Sd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 02:54:53 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f177.google.com ([209.85.210.177]:34607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mOaR1-00022K-EE for 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 02:54:51 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f177.google.com with SMTP id g14so1061471pfm.1 for <50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:54:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FuaQY+NxO+X+hIdSDUa5H5vbJMGSQOUfPs5tPTCrrRI=; b=fVrEdkdc6SFGLJf+7PD6OtNNThowGG/V9DgVUaVrFRPPcJ3Q4h99KZaTFNtKM1pkQK /ObnAb+nED5S+ulNA2X62dEJAkfz3yKs4OmJYIIFghfAWBFC1o7kMUnRiYAlHk/lMOSU NuamM/i/HA5i5upvsjldfsrVGCw5M/hmoE7n1O07CKXauRU5+t8Gfa3a9Rid6wkGx84q zyb25rievtn2v700eBBRCSPbhaOQjuODlAoF+q7e2vHWVAieimyes39U7fodIgsJlQtr fMHh3ipgmWaNx3utn62aPAWgvDGWj/ZbFAfzLsst0127Mwhxbq+On4xkpCZnG2mulGWo DZOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308Ar6uPVGyNGE8BekKoFk0u0nUG1tntVtLxC6OrN7+beLUk+27 bG3zQgqIHNjglvR3xNBOpHGSAM0hPn8oBa1ivz35Rznv X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyPm1vMacvfV6kGYDorIluGxvbNRKorp+uhZQpOimw3i5DdJnv//M2mP3rLV9X21j6X5XGuGojTVa0nQ+i+Wh4= X-Received: by 2002:a62:ea06:0:b0:3e1:62a6:95b8 with SMTP id t6-20020a62ea06000000b003e162a695b8mr6816792pfh.70.1631256885608; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:54:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:54:34 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmGe=NG4Y3jLqyucTLVpe-fVz5g8bytvLTLX6SM+KSx7g@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > Please consider adding properties to the index of the elisp manual for > > easy access. > > Which ones? all of them? There are a lot of them, and we sometimes > have the same keyword used in different contexts to mean different > things, so we'd need a lot of disambiguation text to make unique > entries. As a first approximation, only some of them. (That's what I meant when I wrote: "Perhaps some properties are more important to add than others, and perhaps others still would not even make sense adding.") > (And you mean keywords that start with a colon, not properties. > Right?) Yes, that was a thinko, sorry. > That said, feel free to suggest additions to the indexing for the > important keywords, we can always discuss them one by one. That seems like a good approach here.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a282acb7-6843-4ede-0ff2-08d972e1207e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Sep 2021 15:55:48.7070 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 94YRJeV6KE7fMlZwjINyUEC4S6lYEPkEez5fOJObI7topULOcNNiSkHgQ/q0ZFLqp0h2/M9Fuq081DPSzSkfeg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3670 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10101 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=801 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109030001 definitions=main-2109080099 X-Proofpoint-GUID: jFhYSsx9i28hQTB3Gv0L48S6IqaBzauk X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: jFhYSsx9i28hQTB3Gv0L48S6IqaBzauk X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: "50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > ...keywords that start with a colon... >=20 > One problem here is that use of the colon character in index entries > should be avoided, as some Info readers could get confused by that > (the colon is a special character in Info file format). Indeed. See bugs #18957 and #30478. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D18957 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D30478
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 50467) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2021 06:31:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 08 02:31:54 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58306 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mNr7h-0001Pu-RY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 02:31:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mNr7f-0001Ph-V2 for 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 02:31:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52638) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mNr7a-0001W5-HF; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 02:31:46 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3639 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mNr7Y-0007LS-Gh; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 02:31:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 09:31:53 +0300 Message-Id: <83k0jro9wm.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 8 Sep 2021 03:52:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50467 Cc: 50467 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 03:52:34 +0200 > > Please consider adding properties to the index of the elisp manual for > easy access. Which ones? all of them? There are a lot of them, and we sometimes have the same keyword used in different contexts to mean different things, so we'd need a lot of disambiguation text to make unique entries. (And you mean keywords that start with a colon, not properties. Right?) One problem here is that use of the colon character in index entries should be avoided, as some Info readers could get confused by that (the colon is a special character in Info file format). Also, most of the keywords are, or should be, found by using their "family name". For example, for faces we have "face attributes" in the index. That said, feel free to suggest additions to the indexing for the important keywords, we can always discuss them one by one. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50467: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp
manual?
References: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 07:51:39 +0200
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN>
(Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 8 Sep 2021 03:52:34 +0200")
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Content preview: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > Please consider
adding properties to the index of the elisp manual for > easy access. > >
Rationale: I find myself often looking for properties such as > :align-to
in the elisp manual, but they are [...]
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Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes:
> Please consider adding properties to the index of the elisp manual for
> easy access.
>
> Rationale: I find myself often looking for properties such as
> :align-to in the elisp manual, but they are not indexed. This means
> that I have to look instead for them manually instead, which takes
> more time.
Sure, I think that's a good idea.
That'd basically be
@cindex @code{:align-to}, @code{display} text property
That's a mouthful... I mean, these aren't text properties per se, but
properties when displaying a space-filling `display' property.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2021 01:52:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 21:52:51 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mNmlf-0002i2-DE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 21:52:51 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mNmld-0002hi-HK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 21:52:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40492) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mNmld-0000ym-4o for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 21:52:49 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f172.google.com ([209.85.215.172]:33351) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mNmlb-0000sY-II for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 21:52:48 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f172.google.com with SMTP id u18so907125pgf.0 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:52:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=n39En8Uzh+Grc6Vu7+61DGRK9nJVqPo1dVbWVaI0Bmw=; b=C7mS9fV4Rqcji9Gf1MbkPPTN8nyI2kjOAct08UprP7oTiAuGn+uXoPCfHhrPb0DeHN iUoiqBYbGMv8vfNUXqOgKPj7QAYqM8b2diaVWrWrSa0AQeOBRwB4Z1IWlmnlm0yxU88z FF3d123BOLgdyWt02TcVTbJZRFsLgtFlj8qp7cTKOXKqBPNhX436vAodfgceRXQBe7MB 0ay5lgF2YDFxKqo6Q+QRSwwvncqzYGwc+Ed0fsvazOm4k45+XqohCSw5DGCDl0DtbFxP tw9z2264cLPNj/zGw4Y5jvwK8s8S6OQi+lqf2lr+lxFxEZYF5iBjR4mrze1FDuDpwNwI 2MHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53094L43koMR2G1XVdoM9QKXX5v7ymaJzmMcn4y1pxaXGFC+4Z3R 3QYMi1z1h0p2jHl3XEwiusQkjNH+XKeDKFSHCzGV/Y4xp48= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyyEJCwivWwGfCYf5Lhw61DeS6C5Xy1ngEEBYTjAdL2Y2dO0LqigV/xk+aYFN6w4/7CXQu6BzmEK29S/lnu760= X-Received: by 2002:a62:80d8:0:b0:3f2:72f5:bb31 with SMTP id j207-20020a6280d8000000b003f272f5bb31mr1172955pfd.0.1631065964921; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:52:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 03:52:34 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkkta5ZD6wxUu3EhVmko2KakYwW_n7qA8jqRAYv_NqF+w@HIDDEN> Subject: Could :properties have index entries in the elisp manual? To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.215.172; envelope-from=stefankangas@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-f172.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist Please consider adding properties to the index of the elisp manual for easy access. Rationale: I find myself often looking for properties such as :align-to in the elisp manual, but they are not indexed. This means that I have to look instead for them manually instead, which takes more time. Perhaps there is some conflict of interest between having a usable index inside Emacs and the length of the printed manual. One way to side-step that would be to put them in the index only in the info version of the manual, while excluding them from the print version. I don't know if texinfo supports this. If we decide to go ahead with this wishlist request, we would only need to add a few properties as examples. We could then close this bug add the rest in over time. Perhaps some properties are more important to add than others, and perhaps others still would not even make sense adding.
Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#50467; Package emacs.
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