GNU bug report logs - #50760
26.3; Add `symbol' to the Emacs manul glossary

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Package: emacs;

Reported by: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:59:01 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Found in version 26.3

Fixed in version 28.1

Done: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#50760; Package emacs. (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:59:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org. (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:59:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 26.3; Add `symbol' to the Emacs manul glossary
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:41:20 +0000
"Symbol" is used in many places in the Emacs manual, but it's not
defined in the Glossary.  Please consider adding its definition there.

The notion of an Emacs symbol is not obvious from the name.

(emacs) `Symbol Completion' is one node that talks about "symbol names",
without actually saying what's meant.  It's probably clear enough, from
context, but a more definite definition in the Glossary would help.

In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2019-08-29
Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19042
Configured using:
 `configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static -g3''





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#50760; Package emacs. (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:35:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #8 received at 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50760: 26.3; Add `symbol' to the Emacs manul glossary
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:34:14 +0200
Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> "Symbol" is used in many places in the Emacs manual, but it's not
> defined in the Glossary.  Please consider adding its definition there.
>
> The notion of an Emacs symbol is not obvious from the name.
>
> (emacs) `Symbol Completion' is one node that talks about "symbol names",
> without actually saying what's meant.  It's probably clear enough, from
> context, but a more definite definition in the Glossary would help.

Makes sense.  I've now added an entry in the glossary in Emacs 28 (that
points to the "Symbol Type" node in the lispref manual.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




bug marked as fixed in version 28.1, send any further explanations to 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:35:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#50760; Package emacs. (Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:15:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #13 received at 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: "50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#50760: 26.3; Add `symbol' to the Emacs manul
 glossary
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:14:11 +0000
> > "Symbol" is used in many places in the Emacs manual, but it's not
> > defined in the Glossary.  Please consider adding its definition
> there.
> >
> > The notion of an Emacs symbol is not obvious from the name.
> >
> > (emacs) `Symbol Completion' is one node that talks about "symbol
> names",
> > without actually saying what's meant.  It's probably clear enough,
> from
> > context, but a more definite definition in the Glossary would help.
> 
> Makes sense.  I've now added an entry in the glossary in Emacs 28 (that
> points to the "Symbol Type" node in the lispref manual.)

Thanks, but I don't think that's sufficient.

There are (at least) two important meanings of "symbol" in Emacs:

1. The usual Lisp meaning, which is meaningful only in Lisp.

2. The Elisp meaning of characters with symbol-constituent syntax.  And perhaps names composed of such chars, possibly combined with chars with other syntax, e.g., typically word-constituent.

For example, in programming languages (not only Elisp), we have commands such as `forward-symbol'.  They move over or otherwise manipulate names composed of symbol-constituent chars and sometimes other kinds of chars.

Emacs users deserve to know about these quite different meanings, I think. Each such meaning is important to using Emacs.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#50760; Package emacs. (Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:13:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #16 received at 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50760: [External] : Re: bug#50760: 26.3;
 Add `symbol' to the Emacs manul glossary
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:12:12 +0300
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:14:11 +0000
> Cc: "50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
> 
> There are (at least) two important meanings of "symbol" in Emacs:
> 
> 1. The usual Lisp meaning, which is meaningful only in Lisp.
> 
> 2. The Elisp meaning of characters with symbol-constituent syntax.  And perhaps names composed of such chars, possibly combined with chars with other syntax, e.g., typically word-constituent.
> 
> For example, in programming languages (not only Elisp), we have commands such as `forward-symbol'.  They move over or otherwise manipulate names composed of symbol-constituent chars and sometimes other kinds of chars.
> 
> Emacs users deserve to know about these quite different meanings, I think. Each such meaning is important to using Emacs.

The meaning of "symbol" for searching is explained in "Symbol Search".




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#50760; Package emacs. (Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:54:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #19 received at 50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "larsi <at> gnus.org" <larsi <at> gnus.org>,
 "50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <50760 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: bug#50760: [External] : Re: bug#50760: 26.3; Add `symbol' to the
 Emacs manul glossary
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:53:17 +0000
> > There are (at least) two important meanings of "symbol" in Emacs:
> >
> > 1. The usual Lisp meaning, which is meaningful only in Lisp.
> >
> > 2. The Elisp meaning of characters with symbol-constituent syntax.
> And perhaps names composed of such chars, possibly combined with chars
> with other syntax, e.g., typically word-constituent.
> >
> > For example, in programming languages (not only Elisp), we have
> commands such as `forward-symbol'.  They move over or otherwise
> manipulate names composed of symbol-constituent chars and sometimes
> other kinds of chars.
> >
> > Emacs users deserve to know about these quite different meanings, I
> think. Each such meaning is important to using Emacs.
> 
> The meaning of "symbol" for searching is explained in "Symbol Search".

Great.  Add that meaning to the glossary entry, please.
(And it's also movement commands, not just search.)

A user seeing the doc string for `C-h S'
(`info-lookup-symbol') can well wonder what "symbol"
means.

My observation comes from someone having questioned
possibly using the word "symbol" in a help menu item
(for `info-lookup-symbol').  The term isn't obvious,
especially for new users.





bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org> to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sat, 23 Oct 2021 11:24:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

This bug report was last modified 2 years and 158 days ago.

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