GNU bug report logs - #50804
Command substitutions for keys without keymaps

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:01:38 -0700

Severity: wishlist

We have "\\[foo]" command substitutions in `substitute-command-keys'.
This also puts the face help-key-binding on the replaced text, which
makes key bindings stand out more clearly.

We don't always have a keymap to refer to, because the keys are read
through `read-key' or similar.

For example, in ispell.el:

    (message (concat "C-h or ? for more options; SPC to leave "
                     "unchanged, Character to replace word")))

In other cases, we have the same situation in a docstring, for example
in `isearch-lax-whitespace'.

It would be nice if we could have some way of putting a face on such key
bindings, without having to fiddle with propertize.  For example:

    (message (substitute-command-keys
              (concat "\\[[C-h]] or \\[[?]] for more options;
\\[[SPC]] to leave "
                      "unchanged, Character to replace word"))))

I'm not sure about the notation.  Perhaps "\\[[...]]" is okay, or
perhaps we want some other delimiter.

And perhaps we would want support for this notation also in
`format-messages'?  I'm not sure, but I'm putting it out there.

Message #8 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:58:42 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> It would be nice if we could have some way of putting a face on such key
> bindings, without having to fiddle with propertize.  For example:
>
>     (message (substitute-command-keys
>               (concat "\\[[C-h]] or \\[[?]] for more options;
> \\[[SPC]] to leave "
>                       "unchanged, Character to replace word"))))

Makes sense to me.

> I'm not sure about the notation.  Perhaps "\\[[...]]" is okay, or
> perhaps we want some other delimiter.

What about...  \\`C-h'

Hm.  Possibly too confusing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 17:41:51 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> I'm not sure about the notation.  Perhaps "\\[[...]]" is okay, or
>> perhaps we want some other delimiter.
>
> What about...  \\`C-h'
>
> Hm.  Possibly too confusing.

Using some other delimiters than "\\[]" would probably be nice though,
because:

    (substitute-command-keys "\\[[C-h]]")
    => "M-x [C-h]"

    (substitute-command-keys "\\`C-h`")
    => "\\‘C-h‘"

The second one will be printed as "\‘C-h‘" on old versions, which isn't
perfect but not too bad.  Even if the extra "\" is distracting, it is at
least not actively misleading...

Message #14 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 07:27:39 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> The second one will be printed as "\‘C-h‘" on old versions, which isn't
> perfect but not too bad.  Even if the extra "\" is distracting, it is at
> least not actively misleading...

That's a good point.  So perhaps \\`C-h' does make sense in
`substitute-command-keys'.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #17 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:05:54 +0100

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:
>
>> The second one will be printed as "\‘C-h‘" on old versions, which isn't
>> perfect but not too bad.  Even if the extra "\" is distracting, it is at
>> least not actively misleading...
>
> That's a good point.  So perhaps \\`C-h' does make sense in
> `substitute-command-keys'.

I found a patch of mine from March that I had forgotten about.  It uses
the syntax "\\[=y]" to mean the key "y" where, I guess, we could
stipulate that whatever comes after "=" is `key-valid-p'.

However, it breaks backwards incompatibility just as "\\[[y]]" would:

    (substitute-command-keys "\\[=k]")
    => "M-x =k"

    (substitute-command-keys "\\[[y]]")
    => "M-x [y]"

Which is just... wrong.  So either we say that, you know, don't use this
syntax in code intended for use in anything older Emacs 29, or we just
go with the new syntax \\`y`.

Given that I have a seemingly mostly working patch it should be easy to
fix it up whichever way we decide to go.  I hope.

Message #20 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 09:26:09 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> Which is just... wrong.  So either we say that, you know, don't use this
> syntax in code intended for use in anything older Emacs 29, or we just
> go with the new syntax \\`y`.

I'd be OK to go with the new syntax here.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #23 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 14:35:53 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

tags 50804 + patch
thanks

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> I'd be OK to go with the new syntax here.

Maybe something like the attached?

[0001-Add-new-format-for-literal-key-sequences-to-substitu.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #28 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 20:56:16 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> Maybe something like the attached?

Makes sense to me.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #31 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:48:29 +0100

close 50804 29.1
thanks

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Makes sense to me.

Thanks, pushed (commit 1aef1a6673).

Message #36 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 17:10:13 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 06:48:29 +0100
> Cc: 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
> 
> > Makes sense to me.
> 
> Thanks, pushed (commit 1aef1a6673).

The NEWS entry says:

  ** New substitution in docstrings and 'substitute-command-keys'.
  Use "\\`KEYSEQ'" to insert a literal key sequence "KEYSEQ"
  (e.g. "C-k") in a docstring or when calling 'substitute-command-keys',

Shouldn't that be "\\`C-k" instead?

Message #39 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 17:15:44 +0200

> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 17:10:13 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>   ** New substitution in docstrings and 'substitute-command-keys'.
>   Use "\\`KEYSEQ'" to insert a literal key sequence "KEYSEQ"
>   (e.g. "C-k") in a docstring or when calling 'substitute-command-keys',
> 
> Shouldn't that be "\\`C-k" instead?

Actually, it should be "\\`C-k'", right?  (And I'd drop the outer
quotes, as they muddy the waters.)

Message #42 received at 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 50804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50804: Command substitutions for keys without keymaps
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 16:29:18 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> >   ** New substitution in docstrings and 'substitute-command-keys'.
> >   Use "\\`KEYSEQ'" to insert a literal key sequence "KEYSEQ"
> >   (e.g. "C-k") in a docstring or when calling 'substitute-command-keys',
> >
> > Shouldn't that be "\\`C-k" instead?
>
> Actually, it should be "\\`C-k'", right?  (And I'd drop the outer
> quotes, as they muddy the waters.)

Yup, that's better, thanks.  Now fixed on master.

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