GNU bug report logs - #50935
minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>; Keywords: patch; dated Fri, 1 Oct 2021 11:45:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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>> The following patch makes the prompt more readable:
>>
>>   Send signal to 3 processes [TERM]:
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> BTW, did you send the right patch?  I can't see the word "processes"
> below.

You can see the word "processes" in the source code
outside of the patch diff context ;-)




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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>> > The following patch makes the prompt more readable:
>> >
>> >   Send signal to 3 processes [TERM]:
>>
>> Sounds good to me.
>
> It could be confusing.  Previously, the prompt was
>
>   Send signal [TERM]

The previous prompt was:

    Send signal [3 processes] (default TERM):

or with customized minibuffer-default-prompt-format:

    Send signal [3 processes] [TERM]:

This was too confusing.

> So it was much more clear that "TERM" refers to "signal" and vice
> versa.  Now we have "3 processes" in the way, and someone could think
> "TERM" refers to the processes or something.
>
> How about this instead:
>
>   Signal N processes with [SIGTERM]:
>
> Note that I deliberately added the "SIG" part so that it would be more
> clear this is the name of a signal.

Sorry, the phrase "Signal N processes" is too difficult to comprehend -
it's diffucult to see that "signal" is a verb here.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.
Added tag(s) patch. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
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--00000000000016071405cd9de70d
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tags 50935 + patch
thanks

Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

>> A third option is to add 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' on emacs-28,
>> but make the suggested deletion on master -- which give us more time to
>> get `minibuffer-default-prompt-format' up to scrap.
>
> I guess the answer depends on the question how many prompts
> are already converted to 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format',
> and how many remain.  I checked a few commands, and noticed
> only one command that doesn't use the new format.  It's 'M-.'
> ('xref-find-definitions').  But maybe it can't use the new option
> 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' because xref.el should be
> available in old versions?  Still it could use
>
>   (if (boundp 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format) ...

I've now updated any prompt I could find to use `format-prompt' (by
grepping for " (default ").  Maybe I've missed one or two, but that
should mean that that the overwhelming majority of our prompts now
respect `minibuffer-default-prompt-format'.  See commit 6640942221.

With that, I think the option `minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default' should
be declared obsolete, as in the attached patch, and consequently removed
from the manual.  This change should go to master, of course.

The command `minibuffer-electric-default-mode' shouldn't be declared
obsolete as it does something different.

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bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.

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 (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 5 Oct 2021 10:11:11 -0400)
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 10:11:11 -0400
> Cc: 50935 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > The following patch makes the prompt more readable:
> >
> >   Send signal to 3 processes [TERM]:
> 
> Sounds good to me.

It could be confusing.  Previously, the prompt was

  Send signal [TERM]

So it was much more clear that "TERM" refers to "signal" and vice
versa.  Now we have "3 processes" in the way, and someone could think
"TERM" refers to the processes or something.

How about this instead:

  Signal N processes with [SIGTERM]:

Note that I deliberately added the "SIG" part so that it would be more
clear this is the name of a signal.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

> The following patch makes the prompt more readable:
>
>   Send signal to 3 processes [TERM]:

Sounds good to me.

BTW, did you send the right patch?  I can't see the word "processes"
below.

> diff --git a/lisp/proced.el b/lisp/proced.el
> index 29996068f9..cb66d68302 100644
> --- a/lisp/proced.el
> +++ b/lisp/proced.el
> @@ -1773,7 +1773,7 @@ proced-send-signal
>             `(:annotation-function
>               ,(lambda (s) (cdr (assoc s proced-signal-list))))))
>       (proced-with-processes-buffer process-alist
> -       (list (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal [%s]"
> +       (list (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal to %s"
>                                               "TERM" pnum)
>                                proced-signal-list
>                                nil nil nil nil "TERM")
> @@ -1798,7 +1798,7 @@ proced-send-signal
>               `(:annotation-function
>                 ,(lambda (s) (cdr (assoc s proced-signal-list))))))
>          (proced-with-processes-buffer process-alist
> -          (setq signal (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal [%s]"
> +          (setq signal (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal to %s"
>                                                         "TERM" pnum)
>                                          proced-signal-list
>                                          nil nil nil nil "TERM"))))))




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 50935 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
Organization: LINKOV.NET
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain

> A third option is to add 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' on emacs-28,
> but make the suggested deletion on master -- which give us more time to
> get `minibuffer-default-prompt-format' up to scrap.
>
> Thoughts?

Thanks for adding format-prompt to many more prompts.  I noticed
that when minibuffer-default-prompt-format is customized to the
recommended format " [%s]", then the prompt of proced-send-signal
is confusing with two pairs of the same brackets:

  Send signal [3 processes] [TERM]:

The following patch makes the prompt more readable:

  Send signal to 3 processes [TERM]:


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=proced-send-signal.patch

diff --git a/lisp/proced.el b/lisp/proced.el
index 29996068f9..cb66d68302 100644
--- a/lisp/proced.el
+++ b/lisp/proced.el
@@ -1773,7 +1773,7 @@ proced-send-signal
            `(:annotation-function
              ,(lambda (s) (cdr (assoc s proced-signal-list))))))
      (proced-with-processes-buffer process-alist
-       (list (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal [%s]"
+       (list (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal to %s"
                                              "TERM" pnum)
                               proced-signal-list
                               nil nil nil nil "TERM")
@@ -1798,7 +1798,7 @@ proced-send-signal
              `(:annotation-function
                ,(lambda (s) (cdr (assoc s proced-signal-list))))))
         (proced-with-processes-buffer process-alist
-          (setq signal (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal [%s]"
+          (setq signal (completing-read (format-prompt "Send signal to %s"
                                                        "TERM" pnum)
                                         proced-signal-list
                                         nil nil nil nil "TERM"))))))

--=-=-=--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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> I think instead of documenting all that, we could just delete the
> reference to `minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default' from the manual, as it
> is the same thing as `minibuffer-default-prompt-format', just with a
> different interface.  Of course, the latter is not yet perfect, but
> anywhere it isn't, that's just a bug, right?  That option would look
> like the below diff.
>
> Another option is to just add a reference to
> 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' without any deletions, basically
> accepting that the text is not perfect and move on.
>
> A third option is to add 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' on emacs-28,
> but make the suggested deletion on master -- which give us more time to
> get `minibuffer-default-prompt-format' up to scrap.
>
> Thoughts?

I guess the answer depends on the question how many prompts
are already converted to 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format',
and how many remain.  I checked a few commands, and noticed
only one command that doesn't use the new format.  It's 'M-.'
('xref-find-definitions').  But maybe it can't use the new option
'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' because xref.el should be
available in old versions?  Still it could use

  (if (boundp 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format) ...




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Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

> It seems it's too early to obsolete it.  But maybe still
> 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' should be mentioned?
> Since it's a user option supporting the same format (but in
> a limited set of prompts) as 'minibuffer-electric-default-mode'.

I guess we have this problem for many defcustoms, unless they are
autoloaded, so for `minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default' we have that:

- "Setting it to a non-nil value" using setq before the library is
  loaded will work.

- "Setting it to a non-nil value" using setq after the library is loaded
  will *not* work, you must use customize.

- You can only set it with customize after the library has been loaded.

I think instead of documenting all that, we could just delete the
reference to `minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default' from the manual, as it
is the same thing as `minibuffer-default-prompt-format', just with a
different interface.  Of course, the latter is not yet perfect, but
anywhere it isn't, that's just a bug, right?  That option would look
like the below diff.

Another option is to just add a reference to
'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' without any deletions, basically
accepting that the text is not perfect and move on.

A third option is to add 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' on emacs-28,
but make the suggested deletion on master -- which give us more time to
get `minibuffer-default-prompt-format' up to scrap.

Thoughts?

diff --git a/doc/emacs/mini.texi b/doc/emacs/mini.texi
index 6dcee3fa82..2581be30ba 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/mini.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/mini.texi
@@ -41,11 +41,14 @@ Basic Minibuffer
 canceling the command asking for the argument (@pxref{Quitting}).

 @cindex default argument
+@vindex minibuffer-default-prompt-format
   Sometimes, the prompt shows a @dfn{default argument}, inside
 parentheses before the colon.  This default will be used as the
 argument if you just type @key{RET}.  For example, commands that read
 buffer names usually show a buffer name as the default; you can type
-@key{RET} to operate on that default buffer.
+@key{RET} to operate on that default buffer.  You can customize how
+the default argument is shown with the user option
+@code{minibuffer-default-prompt-format}.

 @cindex Minibuffer Electric Default mode
 @cindex mode, Minibuffer Electric Default
@@ -55,11 +58,7 @@ Basic Minibuffer
 Emacs hides the default argument as soon as you modify the contents of
 the minibuffer (since typing @key{RET} would no longer submit that
 default).  If you ever bring back the original minibuffer text, the
-prompt again shows the default.  Furthermore, if you change the
-variable @code{minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default} to a non-@code{nil}
-value, the default argument is displayed as @samp{[@var{default-arg}]}
-instead of @samp{(default @var{default-arg})}, saving some screen
-space.  To enable this minor mode, type @kbd{M-x
+prompt again shows the default.  To enable this minor mode, type @kbd{M-x
 minibuffer-electric-default-mode}.

   Since the minibuffer appears in the echo area, it can conflict with
diff --git a/lisp/minibuf-eldef.el b/lisp/minibuf-eldef.el
index f67ec353c8..039d0f8828 100644
--- a/lisp/minibuf-eldef.el
+++ b/lisp/minibuf-eldef.el
@@ -56,7 +56,9 @@ minibuffer-default--in-prompt-regexps
      ("\\( \\[.*\\]\\):? *\\'" 1))))

 (defcustom minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default nil
-  "If non-nil, shorten \"(default ...)\" to \"[...]\" in minibuffer prompts."
+  "If non-nil, shorten \"(default ...)\" to \"[...]\" in minibuffer prompts.
+This only takes effect if `minibuffer-electric-default-mode' is
+active."
   :set (lambda (symbol value)
          (set-default symbol value)
 	 (setq-default minibuffer-default-in-prompt-regexps
@@ -183,7 +185,9 @@ minibuffer-electric-default-mode
 the default when it's applicable -- that is, when hitting RET
 would yield the default value.  If the user modifies the input
 such that hitting RET would enter a non-default value, the prompt
-is modified to remove the default indication."
+is modified to remove the default indication.
+
+See also the user option `minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default'."
   :global t
   :group 'minibuffer
   (if minibuffer-electric-default-mode




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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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>> While I don't know how to fix this issue, I have to note that
>> this Info node should also mention that minibuffer-electric-default-mode
>> is now obsoleted by the new user option minibuffer-default-prompt-format.
>
> Hmm, shouldn't the info node then just mention
> 'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' instead, and only that?  I don't
> think we mention obsolete things if we can avoid it, do we?
>
> Also, should 'minibuffer-electric-default-mode' be declared obsolete,
> or is it too early for that?

It seems it's too early to obsolete it.  But maybe still
'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' should be mentioned?
Since it's a user option supporting the same format (but in
a limited set of prompts) as 'minibuffer-electric-default-mode'.




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> From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 22:15:54 +0300
> Cc: 50935 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> While I don't know how to fix this issue, I have to note that
> this Info node should also mention that minibuffer-electric-default-mode
> is now obsoleted by the new user option minibuffer-default-prompt-format.
> The only problem is that currently not all prompts use 'format-prompt'.
> Maybe this should be added to etc/TODO?

If we haven't yet completed the conversion between the two, I'm not
sure the time is right for us to announce the obsolescence of the old
method, as it is still needed in some situations.




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Subject: Re: bug#50935: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

> > In (info "(emacs) Basic Minibuffer"), I see:
> >
> > if you change the variable =E2=80=98minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default=E2=
=80=99 to a
> > non-=E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99 value, the default argument is displayed as =
=E2=80=98[DEFAULT-ARG]=E2=80=99
> > instead of =E2=80=98(default DEFAULT-ARG)=E2=80=99, saving some screen =
space.  To
> > enable this minor mode, type =E2=80=98M-x minibuffer-electric-default-m=
ode=E2=80=99.
>
> While I don't know how to fix this issue, I have to note that
> this Info node should also mention that minibuffer-electric-default-mode
> is now obsoleted by the new user option minibuffer-default-prompt-format.

Hmm, shouldn't the info node then just mention
'minibuffer-default-prompt-format' instead, and only that?  I don't
think we mention obsolete things if we can avoid it, do we?

Also, should 'minibuffer-electric-default-mode' be declared obsolete,
or is it too early for that?

> The only problem is that currently not all prompts use 'format-prompt'.
> Maybe this should be added to etc/TODO?

It can't hurt.




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> In (info "(emacs) Basic Minibuffer"), I see:
>
> if you change the variable ‘minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default’ to a
> non-‘nil’ value, the default argument is displayed as ‘[DEFAULT-ARG]’
> instead of ‘(default DEFAULT-ARG)’, saving some screen space.  To
> enable this minor mode, type ‘M-x minibuffer-electric-default-mode’.

While I don't know how to fix this issue, I have to note that
this Info node should also mention that minibuffer-electric-default-mode
is now obsoleted by the new user option minibuffer-default-prompt-format.
The only problem is that currently not all prompts use 'format-prompt'.
Maybe this should be added to etc/TODO?




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From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:43:46 +0200
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Subject: minibuffer-electric-default-mode interface
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In (info "(emacs) Basic Minibuffer"), I see:

if you change the variable =E2=80=98minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default=E2=80=
=99 to a
non-=E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99 value, the default argument is displayed as =E2=
=80=98[DEFAULT-ARG]=E2=80=99
instead of =E2=80=98(default DEFAULT-ARG)=E2=80=99, saving some screen spac=
e.  To
enable this minor mode, type =E2=80=98M-x minibuffer-electric-default-mode=
=E2=80=99.

But when I run "emacs -Q", I can't customize
'minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default', and this has no effect:

0. emacs -Q
1. (setq minibuffer-eldef-shorten-default t)
2. M-x set-fill-column RET

I still see "(default 0)".  Only if I run 'M-x
minibuffer-electric-default-mode' does this change to "[0]".  So the
above text seems wrong.




Acknowledgement sent to Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#50935; Package emacs. Full text available.
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