GNU bug report logs - #51236
27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 22:03:08 -0700

Hi, I found a couple small typos in 27.2 that are still present in the source for 28.1.

doc/lispref/searching.texi line 2174: missing ’s’ on "describe"
	- Because the match data normally describe[s] …

url-retrieve-synchronously doc-string
lisp/url/url.el line 229:
	- Original: ...or nil if there are no data associated with it (the …
		- Change V1: there [is] no data ...
		- Change V2: or nil if [the buffer contains] no data […] (the …

The other thing I found is that the Emacs FAQ.

doc/misc/efaq.texi line 1905:
Yanking text in isearch recommends ‘M-y’ for yanking text out of the kill
ring. This works, but the cross referenced manual page only mentions
the usual ‘C-y’ method with ‘M-y’ yanking previous kills. Is the manual 
out of date or should the FAQ be updated?

Thanks,
Ian

Message #8 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 10:46:47 +0300

> From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 22:03:08 -0700
> 
> Hi, I found a couple small typos in 27.2 that are still present in the source for 28.1.

Thank you for your reports.

> doc/lispref/searching.texi line 2174: missing ’s’ on "describe"
> 	- Because the match data normally describe[s] …
> 
> url-retrieve-synchronously doc-string
> lisp/url/url.el line 229:
> 	- Original: ...or nil if there are no data associated with it (the …
> 		- Change V1: there [is] no data ...
> 		- Change V2: or nil if [the buffer contains] no data […] (the …

"Data" is plural, so I think using plural form here is non incorrect.

> The other thing I found is that the Emacs FAQ.
> 
> doc/misc/efaq.texi line 1905:
> Yanking text in isearch recommends ‘M-y’ for yanking text out of the kill
> ring. This works, but the cross referenced manual page only mentions
> the usual ‘C-y’ method with ‘M-y’ yanking previous kills. Is the manual 
> out of date or should the FAQ be updated?

What would you suggest to update and how?  Both C-y and M-y are
mentioned in the manual, and the manual is always more detailed than
any other documentation.  Could you state the problem you see with the
current text?

Thanks again for your interest in Emacs documentation.

Message #11 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 15:01:22 -0700

> On Oct 16, 2021, at 12:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> "Data" is plural, so I think using plural form here is non incorrect.

It’s not incorrect, it just jumped out to me when I read it. Similar to:
	- There is no data on the disk.
as opposed to:
	- There are no data on the disk.
"Data is” and “data are" are both technically correct so I guess this
one's more of a style choice than a typo.

> What would you suggest to update and how?  Both C-y and M-y are
> mentioned in the manual, and the manual is always more detailed than
> any other documentation.  Could you state the problem you see with the
> current text?

The cross-referenced manual page (Isearch Yanking) doesn’t mention that
`isearch-yank-pop’ (27.2) can yank text when the previous command wasn’t
a yank. The only place it gets mentioned is in a comment in the source:

	;; Fall back on `isearch-yank-kill' for the benefits of people
	;; who are used to the old behavior of `M-y' in isearch mode. In
	;; future, this fallback may be changed if we ever change
	;; `yank-pop' to do something like the kill-ring-browser.

A separate function was made for the `kill-ring-browser’ functionality in 28.1
(isearch-yank-pop) but the old behaviour is still the default (isearch-yank-pop-only).
If that’s going to be the case long term, there should be a note of it in the manual.
Maybe something like:

	…usual ‘M-y’ (‘yank-pop’) command (see Yanking).  [However unlike the usual
	‘M-y’, ‘isearch-yank-pop’ will act like ‘C-y’ when the previous command wasn’t
	a yank. That is, it will yank the most recent kill.]  Clicking ‘mouse-2’ in the…

If the old `M-y’ behaviour WON’T be the default long term, then the FAQ should be
change to something along the lines of:

	[‘C-y’ and ‘M-y’ work the same in searches as they do in normal editing.]  See…

Thanks,
Ian

> On Oct 16, 2021, at 12:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> 
>> From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
>> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 22:03:08 -0700
>> 
>> Hi, I found a couple small typos in 27.2 that are still present in the source for 28.1.
> 
> Thank you for your reports.
> 
>> doc/lispref/searching.texi line 2174: missing ’s’ on "describe"
>> 	- Because the match data normally describe[s] …
>> 
>> url-retrieve-synchronously doc-string
>> lisp/url/url.el line 229:
>> 	- Original: ...or nil if there are no data associated with it (the …
>> 		- Change V1: there [is] no data ...
>> 		- Change V2: or nil if [the buffer contains] no data […] (the …
> 
> "Data" is plural, so I think using plural form here is non incorrect.
> 
>> The other thing I found is that the Emacs FAQ.
>> 
>> doc/misc/efaq.texi line 1905:
>> Yanking text in isearch recommends ‘M-y’ for yanking text out of the kill
>> ring. This works, but the cross referenced manual page only mentions
>> the usual ‘C-y’ method with ‘M-y’ yanking previous kills. Is the manual 
>> out of date or should the FAQ be updated?
> 
> What would you suggest to update and how?  Both C-y and M-y are
> mentioned in the manual, and the manual is always more detailed than
> any other documentation.  Could you state the problem you see with the
> current text?
> 
> Thanks again for your interest in Emacs documentation.

Message #14 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 09:10:22 +0300

> From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2021 15:01:22 -0700
> Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > On Oct 16, 2021, at 12:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> > "Data" is plural, so I think using plural form here is non incorrect.
> 
> It’s not incorrect, it just jumped out to me when I read it. Similar to:
> 	- There is no data on the disk.
> as opposed to:
> 	- There are no data on the disk.
> "Data is” and “data are" are both technically correct so I guess this
> one's more of a style choice than a typo.

Yes.

> > What would you suggest to update and how?  Both C-y and M-y are
> > mentioned in the manual, and the manual is always more detailed than
> > any other documentation.  Could you state the problem you see with the
> > current text?
> 
> The cross-referenced manual page (Isearch Yanking) doesn’t mention that
> `isearch-yank-pop’ (27.2) can yank text when the previous command wasn’t
> a yank. The only place it gets mentioned is in a comment in the source:
> 
> 	;; Fall back on `isearch-yank-kill' for the benefits of people
> 	;; who are used to the old behavior of `M-y' in isearch mode. In
> 	;; future, this fallback may be changed if we ever change
> 	;; `yank-pop' to do something like the kill-ring-browser.
> 
> A separate function was made for the `kill-ring-browser’ functionality in 28.1
> (isearch-yank-pop) but the old behaviour is still the default (isearch-yank-pop-only).
> If that’s going to be the case long term, there should be a note of it in the manual.
> Maybe something like:
> 
> 	…usual ‘M-y’ (‘yank-pop’) command (see Yanking).  [However unlike the usual
> 	‘M-y’, ‘isearch-yank-pop’ will act like ‘C-y’ when the previous command wasn’t
> 	a yank. That is, it will yank the most recent kill.]  Clicking ‘mouse-2’ in the…

I see no reason to have those details in the manual.  Many Emacs
commands have some DWIM-ish aspects, and we don't always document all
of them in such detail.

Does anyone else think it's important to have those details in the
manual?

Message #17 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:35:12 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I see no reason to have those details in the manual.  Many Emacs
> commands have some DWIM-ish aspects, and we don't always document all
> of them in such detail.
>
> Does anyone else think it's important to have those details in the
> manual?

I think documenting this would go beyond what's useful for somebody
reading the manul.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #20 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 14:44:10 -0700

Understandable,

What about the FAQ section? Should it be changed to ‘C-y’ to fit with the
manual?

Thanks,
Ian

> On Oct 18, 2021, at 12:35 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> wrote:
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
>> I see no reason to have those details in the manual.  Many Emacs
>> commands have some DWIM-ish aspects, and we don't always document all
>> of them in such detail.
>> 
>> Does anyone else think it's important to have those details in the
>> manual?
> 
> I think documenting this would go beyond what's useful for somebody
> reading the manul.
> 
> -- 
> (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #23 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 05:34:08 +0300

> From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 14:44:10 -0700
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
>  51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Understandable,
> 
> What about the FAQ section? Should it be changed to ‘C-y’ to fit with the
> manual?

I thought you said that what it said wasn't incorrect?  Then why
change it?

Message #28 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 11:13:54 -0700

> I thought you said that what it said wasn't incorrect?  Then why
> change it?

I just thought it was odd that the manuals/tutorial all listed ‘C-y’ as the
main way to yank text but then the FAQ suddenly says ‘M-y’. If you
see no issue with it then forget I said anything.

Thanks,
Ian

Message #31 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 11:27:18 -0700

Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca> writes:

>> I thought you said that what it said wasn't incorrect?  Then why
>> change it?
>
> I just thought it was odd that the manuals/tutorial all listed ‘C-y’ as the
> main way to yank text but then the FAQ suddenly says ‘M-y’. If you
> see no issue with it then forget I said anything.

I think this is just a keybinding in isearch that is more convenient to
use than C-y/M-y.

Are there any other issues to resolve here, or can this bug be closed?

Message #36 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 13:44:48 -0700

It can be closed, thanks for the responses.
Ian

> On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:27 AM, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> wrote:
> 
> Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca> writes:
> 
>>> I thought you said that what it said wasn't incorrect?  Then why
>>> change it?
>> 
>> I just thought it was odd that the manuals/tutorial all listed ‘C-y’ as the
>> main way to yank text but then the FAQ suddenly says ‘M-y’. If you
>> see no issue with it then forget I said anything.
> 
> I think this is just a keybinding in isearch that is more convenient to
> use than C-y/M-y.
> 
> Are there any other issues to resolve here, or can this bug be closed?

Message #39 received at 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca>
Cc: 51236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Subject: Re: bug#51236: 27.2/28 small typos/faq correction?
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 14:02:24 -0700

close 51236 28.1
thanks

Ian Nehera <delta29 <at> shaw.ca> writes:

> It can be closed, thanks for the responses.

I'm therefore closing this bug report.

Thanks again for the bug report!

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