GNU bug report logs - #51605
Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 00:27:01 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I'm forwarding this patch to the bug tracker, that AFAICT was never
installed or followed up on.  The first patch saw some discussion here:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-12/msg00993.html

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 08:58:34 +0100
Subject: PATCH: update themes to support mode-line (no bold in
 line-number-current-line)
To: emacs-devel <at> gnu.org

[Message part 2 (text/plain, attachment)]

[Message part 3 (text/html, attachment)]

[line-number.diff (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 00:24:33 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> I'm forwarding this patch to the bug tracker, that AFAICT was never
> installed or followed up on.  The first patch saw some discussion here:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-12/msg00993.html

Is this the final version of the patch?  line-number-current-line
doesn't seem to have `bold' here...

> +  ;; emacs >= 26.1
> +  (when (>= emacs-major-version 26)
> +    (custom-theme-set-faces
> +     'adwaita
> +     `(line-number ((,class (:inherit fringe :foreground "dark gray"))))
> +     `(line-number-current-line ((,class (:inherit line-number :foreground "black"))))))

Are these version checks necessary?  If we're installing a theme in
Emacs 29, then it's, like, in Emacs 29.  😀

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 16:54:37 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-12/msg00993.html
>
> Is this the final version of the patch?  line-number-current-line
> doesn't seem to have `bold' here...

AFAICT, Pedro was asked to remove the bold in the above discussion, and
this is the updated patch that does that.

> Are these version checks necessary?  If we're installing a theme in
> Emacs 29, then it's, like, in Emacs 29.  😀

I don't think they are necessary except for in the leueven and modus
themes (as they are distributed externally).

Message #14 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 01:17:38 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> AFAICT, Pedro was asked to remove the bold in the above discussion, and
> this is the updated patch that does that.

Right.

>> Are these version checks necessary?  If we're installing a theme in
>> Emacs 29, then it's, like, in Emacs 29.  😀
>
> I don't think they are necessary except for in the leueven and modus
> themes (as they are distributed externally).

Perhaps those bits of the patch should go to the maintainers of those
themes?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #17 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:43:55 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Perhaps those bits of the patch should go to the maintainers of those
> themes?

Yes, that makes sense.

I see now that this only affects leuven, as the modus themes were not
changed in the patch.

Message #22 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:05:36 +0100

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> I'm forwarding this patch to the bug tracker, that AFAICT was never
> installed or followed up on.  The first patch saw some discussion here:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-12/msg00993.html
>
> -------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
[snip]
> a second attempt at including minimal line-number support in the
> default Emacs themes.
>
> This has made me think that maybe the best place to make the
> line-number-face inherit from fringe would be in the line-number
> code...  This might mean that we need an agreement that the fringe and
> the line-number are things that are semantically similar or, at least,
> different enough from the buffer.

AFAICT, the point of this patch is essentially changing the line-number
face to inherit the fringe face and line-number-current to have the
default foreground (to make the current line more visible).

I think this makes sense and looks good.  I checked, and this seems to
be what VSCode is doing too, so I don't think it's a controversial
design choice.

So I'd suggest installing the below diff, and then an adapted version of
the proposed patch from Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez.  Comments?


diff --git a/lisp/faces.el b/lisp/faces.el
index 9caba3a11b..16125950d1 100644
--- a/lisp/faces.el
+++ b/lisp/faces.el
@@ -2494,7 +2494,7 @@ trailing-whitespace

 ;; Definition stolen from linum.el.
 (defface line-number
-  '((t :inherit (shadow default)))
+  '((t :inherit (fringe shadow default)))
   "Face for displaying line numbers.
 This face is used when `display-line-numbers' is non-nil.

@@ -2507,7 +2507,7 @@ line-number
   :group 'display-line-numbers)

 (defface line-number-current-line
-  '((t :inherit line-number))
+  '((t :foreground "black" :inherit line-number))
   "Face for displaying the current line number.
 This face is used when `display-line-numbers' is non-nil.

Message #25 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2021 20:38:23 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:05:36 +0100
> Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> 
> AFAICT, the point of this patch is essentially changing the line-number
> face to inherit the fringe face and line-number-current to have the
> default foreground (to make the current line more visible).
> 
> I think this makes sense and looks good.  I checked, and this seems to
> be what VSCode is doing too, so I don't think it's a controversial
> design choice.
> 
> So I'd suggest installing the below diff, and then an adapted version of
> the proposed patch from Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez.  Comments?

I don't think we should change defaults of the faces because someone
prefers to have them look differently.  Faces can be easily
customized, so people who don't like the defaults can have the faces
they like very easily.

Message #28 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 22:49:44 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I don't think we should change defaults of the faces because someone
> prefers to have them look differently.  Faces can be easily
> customized, so people who don't like the defaults can have the faces
> they like very easily.

Me neither.  I think they should change if the new proposal is better.
I'm personally not married to it as I only use display-line-numbers-mode
occasionally (and can indeed customize it locally), but I think it's a
good idea.  In particular, I like the functional aspect of it: you are
less likely to mix up the buffer text with the line number indication
when scanning quickly, and it is easier to see which line you are on
with a subtle color difference on the line number.

Perhaps it could make sense to ask people on emacs-devel or maybe even
do one of our never criticized 30 days experiment on master to give
people a feel for the change before deciding anything.

Message #31 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:21:13 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

HI,
> you are
> less likely to mix up the buffer text with the line number indication
> when scanning quickly, and it is easier to see which line you are on
> with a subtle color difference on the line number.
That's the intent. I need to review YAML and Python often and knowing
exactly where the buffer starts is crucial.

Best, /PA

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 22:49, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> wrote:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
> > I don't think we should change defaults of the faces because someone
> > prefers to have them look differently.  Faces can be easily
> > customized, so people who don't like the defaults can have the faces
> > they like very easily.
>
> Me neither.  I think they should change if the new proposal is better.
> I'm personally not married to it as I only use display-line-numbers-mode
> occasionally (and can indeed customize it locally), but I think it's a
> good idea.  In particular, I like the functional aspect of it: you are
> less likely to mix up the buffer text with the line number indication
> when scanning quickly, and it is easier to see which line you are on
> with a subtle color difference on the line number.
>
> Perhaps it could make sense to ask people on emacs-devel or maybe even
> do one of our never criticized 30 days experiment on master to give
> people a feel for the change before deciding anything.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #34 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 14:37:36 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 22:49:44 +0100
> Cc: 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, paaguti <at> gmail.com
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I don't think we should change defaults of the faces because someone
> > prefers to have them look differently.  Faces can be easily
> > customized, so people who don't like the defaults can have the faces
> > they like very easily.
> 
> Me neither.  I think they should change if the new proposal is better.

I don't see why they would be better.  They are just different.  the
current defaults are borrowed from linum.el, where they were used for
ages by many people.

It is okay for themes to modify that face: that's what themes are for,
after all.  But I see no reason to change the defaults.

> Perhaps it could make sense to ask people on emacs-devel or maybe even
> do one of our never criticized 30 days experiment on master to give
> people a feel for the change before deciding anything.

Doesn't seem worth the trouble.

Message #37 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Cc: stefan <at> marxist.se, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 15:04:18 +0200

> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 07:21:13 +0100
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > you are
> > less likely to mix up the buffer text with the line number indication
> > when scanning quickly, and it is easier to see which line you are on
> > with a subtle color difference on the line number.
> That's the intent. I need to review YAML and Python often and knowing exactly where the buffer starts is
> crucial.

But since this is about themes, why not make some theme(s) do that for
you?  Why do you want to impose this on everyone by default?

Message #40 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:25:39 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I don't see why they would be better.  They are just different.  the
> current defaults are borrowed from linum.el, where they were used for
> ages by many people.

I tried to explain why I think that in my previous email.  In short:
The proposal adds functionality that is not there OOTB, but that would
be useful to provide OOTB.

> It is okay for themes to modify that face: that's what themes are for,
> after all.  But I see no reason to change the defaults.

The point is to set a precedent about the way we suggest Emacs should
behave.

Message #43 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 15:54:06 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 14:25:39 +0100
> Cc: 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, paaguti <at> gmail.com
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I don't see why they would be better.  They are just different.  the
> > current defaults are borrowed from linum.el, where they were used for
> > ages by many people.
> 
> I tried to explain why I think that in my previous email.  In short:
> The proposal adds functionality that is not there OOTB, but that would
> be useful to provide OOTB.

The line number is already separated from the buffer text, albeit not
by its typeface.  So I still think your proposal is merely different,
not necessarily better.  There are good reasons to have the line
numbers in the same font as the default face.

> The point is to set a precedent about the way we suggest Emacs should
> behave.

We _have_ set the precedent: this feature is available in its current
form since Emacs 26.

Message #46 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:08:28 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> The line number is already separated from the buffer text, albeit not
> by its typeface.  So I still think your proposal is merely different,
> not necessarily better.

OK, that's fair enough.  It is always going to be hard to agree fully on
such details.

> We _have_ set the precedent: this feature is available in its current
> form since Emacs 26.

Yes, of course.  The idea is that we should provide a new one.  I assume
you wouldn't object if someone would raise the idea on emacs-devel to
see what people there think?

Message #49 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 18:38:53 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:08:28 +0100
> Cc: 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, paaguti <at> gmail.com
> 
> > We _have_ set the precedent: this feature is available in its current
> > form since Emacs 26.
> 
> Yes, of course.  The idea is that we should provide a new one.  I assume
> you wouldn't object if someone would raise the idea on emacs-devel to
> see what people there think?

People don't need my permission to discuss stuff on the list, and it
would be silly for me to object to any relevant discussion there.

Message #52 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, paaguti <at> gmail.com, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 19:00:22 +0200

>> The line number is already separated from the buffer text, albeit not
>> by its typeface.  So I still think your proposal is merely different,
>> not necessarily better.
>
> OK, that's fair enough.  It is always going to be hard to agree fully on
> such details.

Maybe if you posted a screenshot demonstrating the before/after improvement,
it would be easier to agree if the positive effect is clearly visible.

Message #55 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:23:11 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Juri,

you are right. An image is worth more than 1000 words ;-)

Here you are. +/- the same are in the same file, with a theme I created
with ThemeCreator (https://mswift42.github.io/themecreator/)
My main point for having line-number as fringe is the space between the
line number and the buffer. It's not just the practical side of it (i.e.
identifying a space too much or missing), it's also something more
philosophical: i.e. the the difference between buffer and the rest.

Best, /PA

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

[emacs-linenum-as-default.png (image/png, attachment)]

[emacs-linenum-as-fringe.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #58 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2021 10:18:10 +0200

> Here you are. +/- the same are in the same file, with a theme I created
> with ThemeCreator (https://mswift42.github.io/themecreator/)
> My main point for having line-number as fringe is the space between the
> line number and the buffer. It's not just the practical side of it (i.e.
> identifying a space too much or missing), it's also something more
> philosophical: i.e. the the difference between buffer and the rest.

Thanks for the images, now it's clearly seen that the problem is that
currently line numbers are displayed as part of the buffer text that
is confusing - you can't edit these numbers.  Whereas like fringes
are displayed with a darker background, it makes sense to display
line numbers with the same darker background to indicate these
numbers are not part of the buffer text.  So you patch fixes
the real problem.

Message #61 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Cc: stefan <at> marxist.se, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2021 16:08:45 +0200

> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:23:11 +0100
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> you are right. An image is worth more than 1000 words ;-)
> 
> Here you are. +/- the same are in the same file, with a theme I created with ThemeCreator
> (https://mswift42.github.io/themecreator/) 
> My main point for having line-number as fringe is the space between the line number and the buffer. It's not
> just the practical side of it (i.e. identifying a space too much or missing), it's also something more
> philosophical: i.e. the the difference between buffer and the rest.

What happens if there's display margin between the fringe and the line
numbers?

In any case, I don't understand why you insist on using the fringe as
the basic face here.  The line numbers have nothing to do with the
fringe, and if you assume that the fringe's background will always be
a pale, shadowy color, that assumption can easily be false.  E.g., in
my sessions the fringe has a very vivid color.  It's a problematic
dependency.

Message #64 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 07:45:57 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Eli,

point taken... if it isn't the fringe, then something else. I find it more
problematic to have the same face for the buffer and line numbers.
And it's from the conceptual point of view that line numbers aren't buffer
and therefore should have a different face by default.

OK, I use a couple of themes that happen to have a shadowy background for
the fringe, but I could live with anything that makes this _conceptual_
difference visible.

(Just my .2c worth of experience; when I edit/correct Python exercises from
my students, this visual difference helps me detecting indentation errors
much quicker; my student's experience: different line number and buffer
faces help them editing and therefore adopting Emacs as their editor of
choice for Python and from there they explore org-mode for their short
papers and presentations and they become regular users in no time ;-) )

Best, /PA

On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 15:08, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:23:11 +0100
> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
> 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > you are right. An image is worth more than 1000 words ;-)
> >
> > Here you are. +/- the same are in the same file, with a theme I created
> with ThemeCreator
> > (https://mswift42.github.io/themecreator/)
> > My main point for having line-number as fringe is the space between the
> line number and the buffer. It's not
> > just the practical side of it (i.e. identifying a space too much or
> missing), it's also something more
> > philosophical: i.e. the the difference between buffer and the rest.
>
> What happens if there's display margin between the fringe and the line
> numbers?
>
> In any case, I don't understand why you insist on using the fringe as
> the basic face here.  The line numbers have nothing to do with the
> fringe, and if you assume that the fringe's background will always be
> a pale, shadowy color, that assumption can easily be false.  E.g., in
> my sessions the fringe has a very vivid color.  It's a problematic
> dependency.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #67 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Cc: stefan <at> marxist.se, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri <at> linkov.net
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 15:19:07 +0200

> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 07:45:57 +0100
> Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> point taken... if it isn't the fringe, then something else. I find it more problematic to have the same face for the
> buffer and line numbers. 
> And it's from the conceptual point of view that line numbers aren't buffer and therefore should have a different
> face by default.
> 
> OK, I use a couple of themes that happen to have a shadowy background for the fringe, but I could live with
> anything that makes this _conceptual_ difference visible. 

I don't think I agree with this concept.  For example, the stuff
usually written into the display margins is also separate from the
buffer text, but we still use the same 'default' face there.

> (Just my .2c worth of experience; when I edit/correct Python exercises from my students, this visual
> difference helps me detecting indentation errors much quicker; my student's experience: different line number
> and buffer faces help them editing and therefore adopting Emacs as their editor of choice for Python and from
> there they explore org-mode for their short papers and presentations and they become regular users in no
> time ;-) )

No one argues that some situations and some personal preferences call
for a distinct face for the line numbers.  That's why we use a special
face there, not the default face.  That's not what the argument is
about.  It is about changing the defaults, and that must have reasons
much more serious than just anecdotal evidence about this or that use
case.

Message #70 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:39:46 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi,

>> OK, I use a couple of themes that happen to have a shadowy background
for the fringe, but I could live with
>> anything that makes this _conceptual_ difference visible.

> I don't think I agree with this concept.  For example, the stuff
> usually written into the display margins is also separate from the
> buffer text, but we still use the same 'default' face there.

Wouldn't it be nice if Emacs made this conceptual difference clear by
default. We can start with the line numbers and then continue with other
stuff. I have started this because I got a couple PRs accepted by some
theme editors who valued the concept, not just the visuals of it.

BTW, no bad feelings here, but what is the real reason behind changing the
modeline face to variable pitch? I have tested master recently and the
feeling was really strange.

(at least) I would like a conceptually sound Emacs and highlighting buffer
vs. 'the rest' looks like a basic principle to me.

But again, why not giving it a try as we have with the (IMvvHO weird) font
for the modeline and bow to reactions of the community?

Best, /PA


On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 14:19, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 07:45:57 +0100
> > Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
> 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > point taken... if it isn't the fringe, then something else. I find it
> more problematic to have the same face for the
> > buffer and line numbers.
> > And it's from the conceptual point of view that line numbers aren't
> buffer and therefore should have a different
> > face by default.
> >
> > OK, I use a couple of themes that happen to have a shadowy background
> for the fringe, but I could live with
> > anything that makes this _conceptual_ difference visible.
>
> I don't think I agree with this concept.  For example, the stuff
> usually written into the display margins is also separate from the
> buffer text, but we still use the same 'default' face there.
>
> > (Just my .2c worth of experience; when I edit/correct Python exercises
> from my students, this visual
> > difference helps me detecting indentation errors much quicker; my
> student's experience: different line number
> > and buffer faces help them editing and therefore adopting Emacs as their
> editor of choice for Python and from
> > there they explore org-mode for their short papers and presentations and
> they become regular users in no
> > time ;-) )
>
> No one argues that some situations and some personal preferences call
> for a distinct face for the line numbers.  That's why we use a special
> face there, not the default face.  That's not what the argument is
> about.  It is about changing the defaults, and that must have reasons
> much more serious than just anecdotal evidence about this or that use
> case.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #73 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Juri Linkov <juri <at> linkov.net>
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:03:24 +0100

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com> writes:

> BTW, no bad feelings here, but what is the real reason behind changing the modeline face to variable pitch? I have tested master recently and the feeling was really strange.

I'd recommend reviewing the recent discussion on emacs-devel and
providing your feedback there.

Message #76 received at 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti <at> gmail.com>, 51605 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51605: Fwd: [PATCH] Update themes to support mode-line
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 06:49:36 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> I'm forwarding this patch to the bug tracker, that AFAICT was never
> installed or followed up on.  The first patch saw some discussion here:

[...]

> +     `(line-number ((,class (:inherit fringe :foreground "dark gray"))))

(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)

So the suggestion is to make the `display-line-numbers-mode' line
numbers have the same background colour as the fringe instead of the
buffer.

I agree with Eli here -- I don't think this is clearly better than what
we already have.  So I don't think we should be doing this, and I'm
therefore closing this bug report.

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