GNU bug report logs - #51847
Minor Refcard fix.

Previous Next

To add a comment to this bug, you must first unarchive it, by sending
a message to control AT debbugs.gnu.org, with unarchive 51847 in the body.
You can then email your comments to 51847 AT debbugs.gnu.org in the normal way.

Toggle the display of automated, internal messages from the tracker.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:31:29 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Emacs,

Please find a refcard patch attached.


--
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

[0001-Fix-C-k-description-in-refcards.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #8 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:04:50 +0200

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:31:29 +0300
> 
> Please find a refcard patch attached.

Thanks, but what is the reason for the change?  M-0 invokes the same
command as C-0.

Message #11 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:29:02 +0200

[Please use Reply All to keep the bug tracker on the CC list.]

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:13:30 +0300
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Thanks, but what is the reason for the change?  M-0 invokes the same
> > command as C-0.
> 
> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
> C-k.  
> 
> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
> to "break the tempo".

But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
former.

Message #14 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:35:51 +0300

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
>> C-k.  
>> 
>> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
>> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
>> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
>> to "break the tempo".
>
> But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
> whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
> former.

I see.  I wasn't aware of that.

Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?


-- 
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

Message #17 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:12:53 +0200

> From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:35:51 +0300
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> As stated in the commit message, it's easier to type C-0 C-k than M-0
> >> C-k.  
> >> 
> >> Mickey Peterson in his book "Mastering Emacs", calls such a thing
> >> "maintaining the tempo".  For example, "C-- M-d" and "M-- M-d" are
> >> equivalent, but the latter is much easier to type.  The former is said
> >> to "break the tempo".
> >
> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
> > former.
> 
> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?

I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?

Message #20 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "André A. Gomes" <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>,
 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:30:13 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
>> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
>> > former.
>> 
>> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
>> 
>> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>
> I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?

We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #23 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 19:36:52 +0300

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> > But M-0 has the advantage of being available on text-mode frames,
>>> > whereas C-0 requires a GUI frame.  That's why the refcards use the
>>> > former.
>>>
>>> I see.  I wasn't aware of that.
>>>
>>> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>>
>> I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
>
> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

We agree.

But the question at hand is if the patch (yet to be sent by me) that
replaces "M-0 C-k" by "C-u 0 C-k" would be accepted.


--
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

Message #26 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: andremegafone <at> gmail.com, 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:43:11 +0200

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Cc: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>,
>   51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:30:13 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
> >
> > I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
> 
> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.

That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".

Message #29 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: andremegafone <at> gmail.com, 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:49:45 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> >> Still, I'd say that "C-u 0 C-k" is saner than "M-0 C-k".  WDYT?
>> >
>> > I don't know.  Does anyone else have an opinion?
>> 
>> We should limit the refcards to key combinations that are available on
>> both terminals and guis (if possible).  So I don't think we should make
>> this change, since many people use Emacs on terminals.
>
> That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
> question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".

Sorry; I missed that you'd changed what you were discussing.

Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
sure changing it is an improvement.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #32 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 20:31:26 +0300

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> That's true and agreed, but "C-u 0 C-k" works on TTY as well.  So the
>> question is would it be better to replace "M-0 C-k" with "C-u 0 C-k".
>
> Sorry; I missed that you'd changed what you were discussing.
>
> Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
> sure changing it is an improvement.

As I mentioned before in this thread, M-0 C-k "breaks the tempo", while
C-u 0 C-k doesn't.


-- 
André A. Gomes
"Free Thought, Free World"

Message #39 received at 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 51847 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#51847: Minor Refcard fix.
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 11:35:26 +0100

André A. Gomes <andremegafone <at> gmail.com> writes:

>> Uhm...  I dunno.  The two are about equally awkward to type, so I'm not
>> sure changing it is an improvement.
>
> As I mentioned before in this thread, M-0 C-k "breaks the tempo", while
> C-u 0 C-k doesn't.

I think there wasn't much enthusiasm for changing this, as neither seems
to be clearly superior to the other, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Previous Next

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.