GNU bug report logs - #52147
Eager macro-expansion is not performed in `eval-and-compile' functions

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Paul Pogonyshev <pogonyshev@HIDDEN>; dated Sat, 27 Nov 2021 19:38:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Removed tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
 `eval-and-compile' functions
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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:50:41 +0100
In-Reply-To: <jwv35lpkq0k.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message
 of "Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:09:36 -0500")
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 Content preview: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > Both
 `eval-when-compile`
 and `eval-and-compile` currently defer to > `eval`, but they should arguably
 do the macro-expansion eagerly, indeed. OK; I'll leave this bug report open
 as a wishlist item. 
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

> Both `eval-when-compile` and `eval-and-compile` currently defer to
> `eval`, but they should arguably do the macro-expansion eagerly, indeed.

OK; I'll leave this bug report open as a wishlist item.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
 `eval-and-compile' functions
Message-ID: <jwv35lpkq0k.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:09:36 -0500
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>>> We usually don't stress a lot about the performance of interpreted
>>> (i.e., uncompiled) code.

Indeed.

>> Well we do, a bit,
>>
>>   (info "(elisp) How Programs Do Loading")
>>
>> says that loading a file performs eager macro expansion and that does
>> speed up the resulting code.  `eval', `eval-when-compile' and
>> `eval-and-compile' don't perform eager macro expansion.  I don't know to
>> what degree this is on purpose.  But if a macro is defined later in the
>> file or in another file that has not yet been loaded this may not be
>> possible anyway.
>
> It sounds to me like things are basically working as designed.
>
> Perhaps Stefan has some comments; added to the CCs.

AFAIK the exact time of macro expansion is left underspecified
on purpose.  Whether eager-macroexpansion is used or not should be an
implementation detail.  A piece of code which relies on macro-expansion
being done lazily is a bug, AFAIC.  Usually those bugs become apparent
when byte-compiling the file (where macro-expansion is necessarily
eager), except for those cases that occur during bootstrap.

Both `eval-when-compile` and `eval-and-compile` currently defer to
`eval`, but they should arguably do the macro-expansion eagerly, indeed.

`eval` currently doesn't use eager macro-expansion because I haven't
done the work needed to check/ensure that the resulting potential
slowdown is negligible.  But I think `eval` should also eagerly
macro-expand its argument.


        Stefan
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
 `eval-and-compile' functions
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 loading a file performs eager macro expansion and that does > speed up the
 resulting code. `eval', `eval-when-compile' a [...] 
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Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> writes:

> Well we do, a bit,
>
>   (info "(elisp) How Programs Do Loading")
>
> says that loading a file performs eager macro expansion and that does
> speed up the resulting code.  `eval', `eval-when-compile' and
> `eval-and-compile' don't perform eager macro expansion.  I don't know to
> what degree this is on purpose.  But if a macro is defined later in the
> file or in another file that has not yet been loaded this may not be
> possible anyway.

It sounds to me like things are basically working as designed.

Perhaps Stefan has some comments; added to the CCs.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 52147 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
 `eval-and-compile' functions
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Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:

> We usually don't stress a lot about the performance of interpreted
> (i.e., uncompiled) code.

Well we do, a bit,

  (info "(elisp) How Programs Do Loading")

says that loading a file performs eager macro expansion and that does
speed up the resulting code.  `eval', `eval-when-compile' and
`eval-and-compile' don't perform eager macro expansion.  I don't know to
what degree this is on purpose.  But if a macro is defined later in the
file or in another file that has not yet been loaded this may not be
possible anyway.

Michael.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.
Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
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Paul Pogonyshev <pogonyshev@HIDDEN> writes:

 > Is the issue you want to draw attention to that an interpreted
 > `eval-and-compile' form doesn't macroexpand its body?

> That's what the subject says.

Well, not exactly -- it doesn't say anything about the code being
interpreted.

> I know that it works regardless, but the
> performance suffers, especially if the used macros are complex.

We usually don't stress a lot about the performance of interpreted
(i.e., uncompiled) code.  Does this have a performance impact on
byte-compiled code?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 52147 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
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--000000000000c5088d05d1e05c29
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That's what the subject says. I know that it works regardless, but the
performance suffers, especially if the used macros are complex.

Paul

On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 11:30, Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
wrote:

> Hello Paul,
>
> > (eval-and-compile
> >   (defun my-func-eac (what)
> >     (my-macro what)))
> >
> > (defun my-func-normal (what)
> >   (my-macro what))
> >
> > (print (symbol-function 'my-func-eac))
> > (print (symbol-function 'my-func-normal))
> >
> > `eval-and-compile' is advertised in Elisp manual to make
> > byte-compilation of certain macros without prior loading
> > possible. Looks strange that at the same time it can worsen
> > performance of non-byte-compiled code.
>
> Is the issue you want to draw attention to that an interpreted
> `eval-and-compile' form doesn't macroexpand its body?
>
> Michael.
>

--000000000000c5088d05d1e05c29
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">That&#39;s what the subject says. I know that it works reg=
ardless, but the performance suffers, especially if the used macros are com=
plex.<div><br></div><div>Paul</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 11:30, Michael He=
erdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">m=
ichael_heerdegen@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Paul,<br>
<br>
&gt; (eval-and-compile<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0(defun my-func-eac (what)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(my-macro what)))<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (defun my-func-normal (what)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0(my-macro what))<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (print (symbol-function &#39;my-func-eac))<br>
&gt; (print (symbol-function &#39;my-func-normal))<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; `eval-and-compile&#39; is advertised in Elisp manual to make<br>
&gt; byte-compilation of certain macros without prior loading<br>
&gt; possible. Looks strange that at the same time it can worsen<br>
&gt; performance of non-byte-compiled code.<br>
<br>
Is the issue you want to draw attention to that an interpreted<br>
`eval-and-compile&#39; form doesn&#39;t macroexpand its body?<br>
<br>
Michael.<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000c5088d05d1e05c29--
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Paul Pogonyshev <pogonyshev@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52147: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in
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Hello Paul,

> (eval-and-compile
>   (defun my-func-eac (what)
>     (my-macro what)))
>
> (defun my-func-normal (what)
>   (my-macro what))
>
> (print (symbol-function 'my-func-eac))
> (print (symbol-function 'my-func-normal))
>
> `eval-and-compile' is advertised in Elisp manual to make
> byte-compilation of certain macros without prior loading
> possible. Looks strange that at the same time it can worsen
> performance of non-byte-compiled code.

Is the issue you want to draw attention to that an interpreted
`eval-and-compile' form doesn't macroexpand its body?

Michael.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Eager macro-expansion is not performed in `eval-and-compile' functions
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--00000000000093419605d1ca55af
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Simple code to demonstrate this:

;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-

(defmacro my-macro (x)
  `,x)

(eval-and-compile
  (defun my-func-eac (what)
    (my-macro what)))

(defun my-func-normal (what)
  (my-macro what))

(print (symbol-function 'my-func-eac))
(print (symbol-function 'my-func-normal))

`eval-and-compile' is advertised in Elisp manual to make byte-compilation
of certain macros without prior loading possible. Looks strange that at the
same time it can worsen performance of non-byte-compiled code.

Paul

--00000000000093419605d1ca55af
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Simple code to demonstrate this:</div><div><br></div>=
;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-<br><br>(defmacro my-macro (x)<br>=C2=A0 `,x)<=
br><br>(eval-and-compile<br>=C2=A0 (defun my-func-eac (what)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 (my-macro what)))<br><br>(defun my-func-normal (what)<br>=C2=A0 (my-mac=
ro what))<br><br>(print (symbol-function &#39;my-func-eac))<br>(print (symb=
ol-function &#39;my-func-normal))<br><div><br></div><div>`eval-and-compile&=
#39; is advertised in Elisp manual to make byte-compilation of certain macr=
os without prior loading possible. Looks strange that at the same time it c=
an worsen performance of non-byte-compiled code.</div><div><br></div><div>P=
aul</div></div>

--00000000000093419605d1ca55af--
Acknowledgement sent to Paul Pogonyshev <pogonyshev@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#52147; Package emacs. Full text available.
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