Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2021 12:24:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 13 07:24:47 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54310 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwkNq-0006QF-Qy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 07:24:46 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:41838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1mwkNp-0006Q3-CG for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 07:24:45 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id k4so14420405pgb.8 for <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 04:24:45 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iz+R5Az1A5h6IRRGfrSYvEjXZ8yhE/QqglAwCG/shc0=; b=LrqUuhan8kasCgoZIWSNMoY9+Vho/v4qaj2ZOfCsWWuPjVbZeVtmmcGgRkOK0XjmTM ijFIT7AA5fiWaarwo/mflTxqZFCf168fPl8TgTA6djePitVut3+jE3iNxlTbGs/rb4Se HiDmyGXG44G2Zm51U6GMJI15htEMEhKgJb2nrRR8RWR7EAx2jI9b3dq/2yAcf8wG54qv WJhY3BbrWyhStDff3e7Y2v2HOq9np8A48aEXmSYK1uq5GVywqNOYQwCM5706aLrcCSN9 XhTD6bBl3UbMIRtrgrDOYRoxeRrTSASG83CicdnL2jks7urLZ+jOm7Tpc7u6vwtvmmfM 9s5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531IuW90U7RTWXhrP5Amx+CXe3ptUISBAZxVneriYXfhE+71iFZQ LQ/3qrztAaU7pHSLikReJ+43HfSVemxWuFHAgAI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9tEOID2ENCkgv6vA7w/RsYldFhPD4B1h37Xy7PjCZ/kvZeaDyuRK3s/yIFBWjT2+y1J1bqCW6zJ1lKiYyGss= X-Received: by 2002:a63:ff14:: with SMTP id k20mr46137352pgi.325.1639398279722; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 04:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 04:24:39 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB49775ED633D812D2B0A7B9D896749@HIDDEN> References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> <83y24pmx7j.fsf@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49775ED633D812D2B0A7B9D896749@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 04:24:39 -0800 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=wxw2cv_6iw8dcTpasjLQXMnJ7JwN8RQ9znWqxikJjBA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: amperry@HIDDEN, 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> writes: > I thought so; would it be unrealistic to suggest that Emacs by default switches > to ls-lisp.el on all hosts? ls-lisp.el is intended for MS-Windows, so IMO that would be a step backwards. If we want to use some GNU ls specific flags, it would be better to try to detect GNU ls in some other way.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:14:29 +0000 Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.017; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 10:14:29 +0000 From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> <83y24pmx7j.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 11:14:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83y24pmx7j.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:12 -0500") Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB49775ED633D812D2B0A7B9D896749@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [wImdS961k5BkfOCfW3rMQRvmWQtIISdr] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR09CA0080.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:3d::24) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <871r2gstfg.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 559ea178-de12-4dd0-250d-08d9be215931 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0PR09MB2772:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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Bsd ls >> does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a >> default for Emacs. Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but >> gnu/Linux? > > No, ls-lisp.el is not used on any Posix hosts. I thought so; would it be unrealistic to suggest that Emacs by default switches to ls-lisp.el on all hosts? I have done some measurements, not very scientific, just tested simply gnu ls vs directory-files on my Arch Linux, with a directory ~5000 files. As I see it on my computer, the most of time is spent on I/O, once the system has cached inodes, it almost does not matter if I use ls binary or sl-lisp.el, or directory-files directly: *** Welcome to IELM *** Type (describe-mode) for help. ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.202678959 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (directory-files "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.003737047 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.001892588 0 0.0) ELISP> (benchmark-run 1 (find-file "/s/backup/unsorted")) (0.001898974 0 0.0) ls is faster of course, but not like a magnitude faster. That is off a mechanical drive. Switching to ls-lisp.el would let Dired be stup for consistent behavior on all platforms and we could have directories grouped by default. At least according to web search that seems to be often asked question for both Emacs users, and even MacOS Finder users. With other words, it seems like it is a behavior prefered by lot of users.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2021 20:21:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 12 15:21:00 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53240 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwVLA-0002Ou-HK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 15:21:00 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:43683) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1mwVL9-0002Of-4p for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 15:20:59 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@HIDDEN) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1205B60006; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:20:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488FE45FBC2BA063E29ADF7F3739@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 22:10:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB5488FE45FBC2BA063E29ADF7F3739@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:45:19 +0000") Message-ID: <86lf0ph9m3.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > This is that thread: >> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html >> > >> > Checking your and my posts (and others) in that >> > thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could >> > you point to the message(s) you're referring to? >> > A URL would be good. >> >> Strange, I have a message in the archive from 24 Sep, >> but it doesn't exist on the thread that you posted. > > Could you please post the URL to that message, > whatever thread it might be in? Maybe this? I'm not sure. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg02142.html >> > More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first >> > and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with >> > wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or >> > implemented, it's something else entirely. >> >> I suggested to use TAB that goes to the next file >> and wraps around at boundaries. Then '>' could be >> reused to go to the last file. > > I see. Apparently I didn't see or notice your > suggestion. > >> Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' >> for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, >> so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" >> to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree? > > That's kinda outside the scope of this bug thread. > But yes, FWIW I agree: I think such an option > would make sense. > > (Not that my opinion would make any difference.) > > Probably `ls-lisp-dirs-first' should take precedence, > however, as someone might well want dirs-first only > on MS Windows (or more generally, when `ls-lisp.el' > is loaded).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:45:19 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Topic: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Index: AQHX74nvzu/gTqKTjk6mf5yDQhgvCKwvQGzA Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:45:19 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488FE45FBC2BA063E29ADF7F3739@HIDDEN> References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2394dd36-65b0-4575-a865-08d9bda7ede0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB3143:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR10MB31430031429AEC8F27767DAAF3739@HIDDEN> x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2394dd36-65b0-4575-a865-08d9bda7ede0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Dec 2021 19:45:19.6966 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: q+g7TK8bj6HuqiFYJFyyncXdiGlVvDKv5b+okA5uWWbhaQcaHA6ZAKwZ4aSQ0AlAWn3C8dEQCvahEvBYPw75mg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3143 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10196 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2112120120 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: GUBS13NZF4YLuQ0jAwR7LWjhMptg2pb7 X-Proofpoint-GUID: GUBS13NZF4YLuQ0jAwR7LWjhMptg2pb7 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > This is that thread: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html > > > > Checking your and my posts (and others) in that > > thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could > > you point to the message(s) you're referring to? > > A URL would be good. >=20 > Strange, I have a message in the archive from 24 Sep, > but it doesn't exist on the thread that you posted. Could you please post the URL to that message, whatever thread it might be in? > > More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first > > and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with > > wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or > > implemented, it's something else entirely. >=20 > I suggested to use TAB that goes to the next file > and wraps around at boundaries. Then '>' could be > reused to go to the last file. I see. Apparently I didn't see or notice your suggestion. > Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' > for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, > so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" > to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree? That's kinda outside the scope of this bug thread. But yes, FWIW I agree: I think such an option would make sense. (Not that my opinion would make any difference.) Probably `ls-lisp-dirs-first' should take precedence, however, as someone might well want dirs-first only on MS Windows (or more generally, when `ls-lisp.el' is loaded).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2021 19:37:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 12 14:37:20 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53193 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwUeu-0001KN-Gu for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37704) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mwUes-0001K9-I6 for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:19 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=38360 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mwUem-0007NA-7x; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=62B6xo7azQ37WTCg7qV4W8HORhY7kGdKArKNEgQWHzg=; b=r70xG98gzJi6 rOmWQ0Dke6OyC3MTyEGs4os3/xq3yaMzauFYv7PMC/vzopuAQVqSDuhlUihVD2TImp4FJyM2u1e00 C8l6pwuq0Fv4qFyupbPAmgO7uv2GfbFA03DDwkyFtoXiQz1V+42zXDtruqDsO2LTmEaJBaXpNpgUN gAMvWy0zW7arEz5fi2Fsyj1PcXCRZNBwZrfU43FW9qmjrZMHalMJ10U9yZYolkuFEpU/Z8AMdRJPu Ra4cPewqw30BPu3ka8MjN8OtleHh0QQulhlDJUb8KS8bEMPNOpM4syhs3MLoOX/t+6R9UzMijHMK+ Mf5EsUtKGiuFKFB8JN2TIw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2762 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1mwUem-0007g6-38; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:37:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 21:37:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83y24pmx7j.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> (message from Arthur Miller on Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: amperry@HIDDEN, stefan@HIDDEN, 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, juri@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100 > Cc: Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, > "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> > > After I posted my comment to Drew, I realized later, that > '--group-directories-first' does not exist in all 'ls' implementations. Bsd ls > does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a > default for Emacs. Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but > gnu/Linux? No, ls-lisp.el is not used on any Posix hosts.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2021 19:30:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 12 14:30:51 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwUYc-0001BU-SH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:30:51 -0500 Received: from relay1-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.193]:34773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1mwUYZ-0001BE-BV for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 14:30:48 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@HIDDEN) by relay1-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2747240009; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:30:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 21:28:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> (Arthur Miller's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100") Message-ID: <86y24phbc2.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' >> for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, >> so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" >> to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree? > > After I posted my comment to Drew, I realized later, that > '--group-directories-first' does not exist in all 'ls' implementations. Bsd ls > does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a > default for Emacs. Maybe such 'ls' implementations could be detected using something like 'grep-probe'? > Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but gnu/Linux? Dired defaults to ls-lisp.el on ms-dos and windows-nt, and 'ls-lisp-dirs-first' default to t when 'ls-lisp-emulation' is 'MS-Windows'.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:15:45 +0000 Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4778.017; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 19:15:45 +0000 From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:15:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:52:10 +0200") Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB49771235F84EABDD2A810F7D96739@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [MVKPqn/1ODXyOeU4iGi8C8HfdBgERfYy] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR05CA0365.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:7:94::24) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87lf0p7hy7.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2750e476-0787-4ca0-22be-08d9bda3cc58 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM9PR09MB4977:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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Or is that tongue in cheek? >>> > >>> > I just searched all messages I've received from >>> > you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists >>> > and direct mails, and I don't find any such >>> > suggestion or review request. Could you point >>> > to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were >>> > the case I would most likely have added it to >>> > Dired+ long before I did (which was not until >>> > July 12, 2013). >>> >>> I don't remember exactly, but the closest is in the >>> thread "TAB for non-editing modes" on emacs-devel >>> with the discussion about using TAB in dired >>> to move between directories. When TAB/S-TAB will go >>> to the next/previous directory, then `<' and `>' >>> will be free to use for going to the first/last file. >> >> This is that thread: >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html >> >> I see nothing there that resembles anything like an >> implementation of wraparound navigation for Dired, >> let alone a request by you to review that. I don't >> even find any suggestion that such wraparound be >> added to Dired. I see nothing even vaguely related >> to a suggestion about wraparound navigation. >> >> Checking your and my posts (and others) in that >> thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could >> you point to the message(s) you're referring to? >> A URL would be good. > > Strange, I have a message in the archive from 24 Sep, > but it doesn't exist on the thread that you posted. > >> More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first >> and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with >> wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or >> implemented, it's something else entirely. > > I suggested to use TAB that goes to the next file > and wraps around at boundaries. Then '>' could be > reused to go to the last file. > >>> >> But I don't use it too much because it's not >>> >> so useful with --group-directories-first >>> >> that really should be the default. >>> > >>> > I have that as default for my own use. But I >>> > often change sort orders, especially for date. >>> >>> When you change sort orders, directories still >>> remain at the top? So first are directories >>> sorted by date, then below files sorted by date? >> >> For my own use, I use non-nil `ls-lisp-dirs-first', >> so directories remain listed first. (But I use >> `emacs -Q` for some testing and some bug filing.) >> >> When `ls-lisp-dirs-first' is non-nil, dirs are >> listed first. And yes, their order changes when >> sorting is by date vs name, or some other order. >> But as a group, yes, they remain listed first, >> before ordinary files, within any given dir >> listing. >> >> The point is that it can be useful to sometimes >> see some or all dir lines interspersed with >> ordinary-file lines. >> >> Again, a classic example is when subdir listings >> are inserted: Directory lines in those listings >> are separated from those of the main listing and >> from those of other subdir listings. `>' and >> `<' let you move among consecutive dir lines >> throughout the buffer. >> >> `<' and `>' have their own raisons d'etre. They >> are not the same as `p' and `n'. (And yes, it >> makes sense for both >/< and n/p to optionally >> wrap around.) > > Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' > for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, > so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" > to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree? After I posted my comment to Drew, I realized later, that '--group-directories-first' does not exist in all 'ls' implementations. Bsd ls does not seem to have it, correct me if I am wrong, so I am not sure it can be a default for Emacs. Unless Emacs defaults to ls-lisp.el on all platforms but gnu/Linux?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2021 18:56:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 12 13:56:12 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53136 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwU15-0004Lb-Ot for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 13:56:12 -0500 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:57405) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1mwU12-0004L7-Vi for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 13:56:11 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@HIDDEN) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92DC66000B; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 18:55:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 20:52:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 12 Dec 2021 18:35:22 +0000") Message-ID: <86czm1k65h.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> >> > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap >> >> > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' >> >> > has its default value of `t'.) >> >> >> >> Yet another feature I had already implemented >> >> since Emacs 21.1 and sent to you for review in 2007. >> > >> > Interesting. Or is that tongue in cheek? >> > >> > I just searched all messages I've received from >> > you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists >> > and direct mails, and I don't find any such >> > suggestion or review request. Could you point >> > to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were >> > the case I would most likely have added it to >> > Dired+ long before I did (which was not until >> > July 12, 2013). >> >> I don't remember exactly, but the closest is in the >> thread "TAB for non-editing modes" on emacs-devel >> with the discussion about using TAB in dired >> to move between directories. When TAB/S-TAB will go >> to the next/previous directory, then `<' and `>' >> will be free to use for going to the first/last file. > > This is that thread: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html > > I see nothing there that resembles anything like an > implementation of wraparound navigation for Dired, > let alone a request by you to review that. I don't > even find any suggestion that such wraparound be > added to Dired. I see nothing even vaguely related > to a suggestion about wraparound navigation. > > Checking your and my posts (and others) in that > thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could > you point to the message(s) you're referring to? > A URL would be good. Strange, I have a message in the archive from 24 Sep, but it doesn't exist on the thread that you posted. > More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first > and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with > wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or > implemented, it's something else entirely. I suggested to use TAB that goes to the next file and wraps around at boundaries. Then '>' could be reused to go to the last file. >> >> But I don't use it too much because it's not >> >> so useful with --group-directories-first >> >> that really should be the default. >> > >> > I have that as default for my own use. But I >> > often change sort orders, especially for date. >> >> When you change sort orders, directories still >> remain at the top? So first are directories >> sorted by date, then below files sorted by date? > > For my own use, I use non-nil `ls-lisp-dirs-first', > so directories remain listed first. (But I use > `emacs -Q` for some testing and some bug filing.) > > When `ls-lisp-dirs-first' is non-nil, dirs are > listed first. And yes, their order changes when > sorting is by date vs name, or some other order. > But as a group, yes, they remain listed first, > before ordinary files, within any given dir > listing. > > The point is that it can be useful to sometimes > see some or all dir lines interspersed with > ordinary-file lines. > > Again, a classic example is when subdir listings > are inserted: Directory lines in those listings > are separated from those of the main listing and > from those of other subdir listings. `>' and > `<' let you move among consecutive dir lines > throughout the buffer. > > `<' and `>' have their own raisons d'etre. They > are not the same as `p' and `n'. (And yes, it > makes sense for both >/< and n/p to optionally > wrap around.) Maybe then like there is a user option `ls-lisp-dirs-first' for ls-lisp.el, a similar option should be added to dired as well, so users won't need to manually add "--group-directories-first" to `dired-listing-switches'. Do you agree?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Sun, 12 Dec 2021 18:35:22 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Topic: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Index: AQHX7zZ2U3h/UTNjqUGTSGeWqAjDVKwvJRBQ Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 18:35:22 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488F3D24319860A410201FEF3739@HIDDEN> References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2a2dd44a-6ac2-4b7b-f41d-08d9bd9e27ed x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5661:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <SJ0PR10MB56612D5307A50059ED9AF29BF3739@HIDDEN> x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2a2dd44a-6ac2-4b7b-f41d-08d9bd9e27ed X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Dec 2021 18:35:22.0931 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: BUETQPzsO7m8RTSwvKX6HTi62RC1Uxu9RS/mSAGIdhFnMJk93A/GJhilEb2WmykNlRgnvx0X8roen6oD5iqCgA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5661 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10196 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2112120112 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: DFH78xbLoD2M9STrwJnwvpXsn6asaWP_ X-Proofpoint-GUID: DFH78xbLoD2M9STrwJnwvpXsn6asaWP_ X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > >> > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap > >> > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' > >> > has its default value of `t'.) > >> > >> Yet another feature I had already implemented > >> since Emacs 21.1 and sent to you for review in 2007. > > > > Interesting. Or is that tongue in cheek? > > > > I just searched all messages I've received from > > you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists > > and direct mails, and I don't find any such > > suggestion or review request. Could you point > > to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were > > the case I would most likely have added it to > > Dired+ long before I did (which was not until > > July 12, 2013). >=20 > I don't remember exactly, but the closest is in the > thread "TAB for non-editing modes" on emacs-devel > with the discussion about using TAB in dired > to move between directories. When TAB/S-TAB will go > to the next/previous directory, then `<' and `>' > will be free to use for going to the first/last file. This is that thread: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg01976.html I see nothing there that resembles anything like an=20 implementation of wraparound navigation for Dired, let alone a request by you to review that. I don't even find any suggestion that such wraparound be added to Dired. I see nothing even vaguely related to a suggestion about wraparound navigation. Checking your and my posts (and others) in that thread, I find nothing about any of this. Could you point to the message(s) you're referring to? A URL would be good. ___ More importantly, `<' and `>' going to the first and last file, respectively, has nothing to do with wraparound. So if that's what you suggested or implemented, it's something else entirely. > >> But I don't use it too much because it's not > >> so useful with --group-directories-first > >> that really should be the default. > > > > I have that as default for my own use. But I > > often change sort orders, especially for date. >=20 > When you change sort orders, directories still > remain at the top? So first are directories > sorted by date, then below files sorted by date? For my own use, I use non-nil `ls-lisp-dirs-first', so directories remain listed first. (But I use `emacs -Q` for some testing and some bug filing.) When `ls-lisp-dirs-first' is non-nil, dirs are listed first. And yes, their order changes when sorting is by date vs name, or some other order. But as a group, yes, they remain listed first, before ordinary files, within any given dir listing. The point is that it can be useful to sometimes see some or all dir lines interspersed with ordinary-file lines. Again, a classic example is when subdir listings are inserted: Directory lines in those listings are separated from those of the main listing and from those of other subdir listings. `>' and `<' let you move among consecutive dir lines throughout the buffer. `<' and `>' have their own raisons d'etre. They are not the same as `p' and `n'. (And yes, it makes sense for both >/< and n/p to optionally wrap around.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2021 08:58:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 12 03:58:42 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mwKgs-0005K9-N8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 03:58:42 -0500 Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]:54965) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1mwKgq-0005Ji-A9 for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 03:58:40 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@HIDDEN) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0912C0002; Sun, 12 Dec 2021 08:58:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2021 10:41:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB54882817D69D580141F63D3DF3729@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 11 Dec 2021 22:06:31 +0000") Message-ID: <86zgp68c8j.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap >> > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' >> > has its default value of `t'.) >> >> Yet another feature I had already implemented >> since Emacs 21.1 and sent to you for review in 2007. > > Interesting. Or is that tongue in cheek? > > I just searched all messages I've received from > you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists > and direct mails, and I don't find any such > suggestion or review request. Could you point > to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were > the case I would most likely have added it to > Dired+ long before I did (which was not until > July 12, 2013). I don't remember exactly, but the closest is in the thread "TAB for non-editing modes" on emacs-devel with the discussion about using TAB in dired to move between directories. When TAB/S-TAB will go to the next/previous directory, then `<' and `>' will be free to use for going to the first/last file. >> But I don't use it too much because it's not >> so useful with --group-directories-first >> that really should be the default. > > I have that as default for my own use. But I > often change sort orders, especially for date. When you change sort orders, directories still remain at the top? So first are directories sorted by date, then below files sorted by date?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Interesting. Or is that tongue in cheek? I just searched all messages I've received from you, including those in 2007, from mailing lists and direct mails, and I don't find any such suggestion or review request. Could you point to it - I'm curious. I expect that if that were the case I would most likely have added it to Dired+ long before I did (which was not until July 12, 2013). > But I don't use it too much because it's not > so useful with --group-directories-first > that really should be the default. I have that as default for my own use. But I often change sort orders, especially for date. And as I said, `>' and `<' make a difference (from `n' and `p') when dirs aren't listed first - as well as when there are inserted subdirs. ___ I also use `C-M-n' and `C-M-p', which move sequentially among subdir listings, and `C-M-u' and `C-M-d', which move among them hierarchically (up/down a Dired tree).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 52384) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Dec 2021 19:59:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 11 14:59:23 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50030 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mw8Wh-0000DC-Hu for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 14:59:23 -0500 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:38001) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1mw8Wg-0000Cx-7E for 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 14:59:23 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@HIDDEN) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8584200005; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 19:59:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#52384: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 21:40:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 17:11:48 +0000") Message-ID: <86y24rlylf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' > has its default value of `t'.) Yet another feature I had already implemented since Emacs 21.1 and sent to you for review in 2007. But I don't use it too much because it's not so useful with --group-directories-first that really should be the default.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 229ff119-8af2-4211-0a52-08d9bcc510e5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Dec 2021 16:41:22.7348 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2Wy78noCPhwevCGAfVQ4AKJ0Xp+A5+gSl0QOlJrknL8GbVCA57XkC3MzRd1wvQ/+gpdlLYDWGouxch8ZWVt/fQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2485 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10195 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=764 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2112110093 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: mAMwXzn_Tg2MFkuqVRORgsDT89b6-aFG X-Proofpoint-GUID: mAMwXzn_Tg2MFkuqVRORgsDT89b6-aFG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Giving such behavior to vanilla Emacs is trivial. > > And I likely did propose it long ago, and there's > > a chance I even provided code for it. In any case, > > the code isn't hard. > > I don't think it is hard to code; it was just you already made it in > dired+, so it's your code, your thing, your patch :). As I said, I likely already did that, long ago. Patches I submit are generally ignored. If you think that the slight changes I made in Dired+ for this are worth proposing in a patch, feel free to do so. But there's nothing special about that particular coding. > >> It would be handy if 'p' and 'n' and '<' and '>' would behave > >> similarly. > > > > `p' and `n' do behave similarly, based on the same > > user option. And yes, I generally do provide > > wraparound navigation etc. in my code. It usually > > makes sense to do so. > > Yes, It would be nice if Emacs had consistent "wrap around" for more > things, as an option of course; like in windmove.el. Yes, optionally. Sometimes, as in Dired for different kinds of navigation, a single option could reasonably control wraparound for different commands. Other times, it's more appropriate to have separate options.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Sat, 11 Dec 2021 14:08:51 +0000 Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%4]) with mapi id 15.20.4755.022; Sat, 11 Dec 2021 14:08:51 +0000 From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49774A143751E3DB7590564F96719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548840C9DC82FBD33D04B7B5F3719@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 15:08:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB548840C9DC82FBD33D04B7B5F3719@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 22:52:03 +0000") Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB4977D5E1C3574EF4217DC36696729@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [fjZBAmAu4rgQbL5s4OV/Vh3zwgDA+Xfm] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR05CA0213.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:3:fa::13) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87ee6jxmha.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by HE1PR05CA0213.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:3:fa::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=) via Frontend Transport; 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So pressing >> '<' would take you to the last directory before files listing begin, and >> than one can use either p/n or </> to move cursor. > > That's far from the only case/difference. > > `<' and `>' move only among dir-header lines. Yeah I know. > They do that wherever those lines might be. > Including for inserted subdirs. > > If you never insert subdir listings, and you > always list dir lines first, then, within that > block of dir headers (only), yes, `<' and `>' act > like `p' and `n'. That's one case out of many. > >> I also think dired should use by default >> --group-directories-first/ls-lisp-dirs-first... > > Please file a separate enhancement request for > that, if you like. > >> > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap >> > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' >> > has its default value of `t'.) >> >> I would suggest this option to make it's way into Emacs. Can't you suggest a >> patch? Windmove has similar option for moving left-right windows to wrap >> around. > > Giving such behavior to vanilla Emacs is trivial. > And I likely did propose it long ago, and there's > a chance I even provided code for it. In any case, > the code isn't hard. I don't think it is hard to code; it was just you already made it in dired+, so it's your code, your thing, your patch :). >> It would be handy if 'p' and 'n' and '<' and '>' would behave >> similarly. > > `p' and `n' do behave similarly, based on the same > user option. And yes, I generally do provide > wraparound navigation etc. in my code. It usually > makes sense to do so. Yes, It would be nice if Emacs had consistent "wrap around" for more things, as an option of course; like in windmove.el.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Fri, 10 Dec 2021 22:52:03 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Index: AQHX7hTy5yre4PYLcEqIVvTsVRCjhawsUfrw Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 22:52:03 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB548840C9DC82FBD33D04B7B5F3719@HIDDEN> References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB49774A143751E3DB7590564F96719@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB49774A143751E3DB7590564F96719@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bf0d2a7c-ac7d-47a4-5f36-08d9bc2faf40 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB3142:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR10MB314236DE0F6E2AC99B89FE33F3719@HIDDEN> x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bf0d2a7c-ac7d-47a4-5f36-08d9bc2faf40 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Dec 2021 22:52:03.8414 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: J6Hm3dbmfLad1Fuph0FzBIG2gDZuK1LSQlrQol6qEhNMMWNHe5gQclKJz2v+41mQb7c57OZxZdlmKqCsjP+dXg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3142 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10194 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=846 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2112100124 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: SnJW0HdlZNp5VTGUghmPKdjSLlNYePWN X-Proofpoint-GUID: SnJW0HdlZNp5VTGUghmPKdjSLlNYePWN X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52384 Cc: "52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > My 2c: > > Leave `<' and `>' alone, letting them move to > > the previous/next directory file line. >=20 > If you keep directories sorted before or after files then < and > become > almost redundant, since 'p' and 'n' will have same effect in practice. For some meaning of "almost". > I say almost, because there is instance when one is deep below in files > and would like to jump do directories (when sorted before). So pressing > '<' would take you to the last directory before files listing begin, and > than one can use either p/n or </> to move cursor. That's far from the only case/difference. `<' and `>' move only among dir-header lines. They do that wherever those lines might be. Including for inserted subdirs. If you never insert subdir listings, and you always list dir lines first, then, within that block of dir headers (only), yes, `<' and `>' act like `p' and `n'. That's one case out of many. > I also think dired should use by default > --group-directories-first/ls-lisp-dirs-first... Please file a separate enhancement request for that, if you like. > > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap > > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' > > has its default value of `t'.) >=20 > I would suggest this option to make it's way into Emacs. Can't you sugges= t a > patch? Windmove has similar option for moving left-right windows to wrap > around. Giving such behavior to vanilla Emacs is trivial. And I likely did propose it long ago, and there's a chance I even provided code for it. In any case, the code isn't hard. > It would be handy if 'p' and 'n' and '<' and '>' would behave > similarly. `p' and `n' do behave similarly, based on the same user option. And yes, I generally do provide wraparound navigation etc. in my code. It usually makes sense to do so.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Fri, 10 Dec 2021 22:26:09 +0000 Received: from AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a]) by AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b012:5fd9:9447:d64a%4]) with mapi id 15.20.4755.022; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 22:26:09 +0000 From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 23:26:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 2021 17:11:48 +0000") Message-ID: <AM9PR09MB49774A143751E3DB7590564F96719@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-TMN: [IldIv2kY5xpYkCxePh2q0wNs7AdonYbU] X-ClientProxiedBy: HE1PR0102CA0059.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:7:7d::36) To AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:304::20) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <878rws6qrl.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pascal.homepc (81.232.177.30) by HE1PR0102CA0059.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:7:7d::36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=) via Frontend Transport; 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If you keep directories sorted before or after files then < and > become almost redundant, since 'p' and 'n' will have same effect in practice. I say almost, because there is instance when one is deep below in files and would like to jump do directories (when sorted before). So pressing '<' would take you to the last directory before files listing begin, and than one can use either p/n or </> to move cursor. I also think dired should use by default --group-directories-first/ls-lisp-dirs-first to group directories before/after regular files. This seems to be asked quite few times if you search the web, there are SX/Reddit questions, Emacs Wiki article, some blogs, etc; so it seems to be asked/desired/expected behaviour. I understand that this was optional back in time when computers were less powerful, but nowadays sorting dirs before files is trivial. Pesonally I think listings with dirs/files mixed look aesthetically more noisy and harder to find what I looking for. Might be just me getting used to this style though. > (The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap > around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' > has its default value of `t'.) I would suggest this option to make it's way into Emacs. Can't you suggest a patch? Windmove has similar option for moving left-right windows to wrap around. It would be handy if 'p' and 'n' and '<' and '>' would behave similarly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Fri, 10 Dec 2021 17:11:49 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak Thread-Index: AQHX7ZX4eWJbSNW/XUq8vSMPXYIEZKwr9idg Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 17:11:48 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB548825F07727C44141CAF324F3719@HIDDEN> References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN> <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <AM9PR09MB4977ACE7D3370BA0956A47D796719@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 580838ee-a9c2-4d51-855f-08d9bc002707 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB2487:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR10MB248782B7D4225D665F963AF2F3719@HIDDEN> x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5516; 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(The Dired+ versions of these commands wrap around, if option `diredp-wrap-around-flag' has its default value of `t'.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak
References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:00:12 +0100
In-Reply-To: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN> (Michael
Perry's message of "Thu, 9 Dec 2021 00:39:39 +0000 (UTC)")
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Content preview: Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> writes: > When visiting
a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of contents, > but also
a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...') (The second
line has been removed in Emacs 29, and the first line has been made useful
in Emacs 28 (you can now click on the segments).)
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Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> writes:
> When visiting a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of contents,
> but also a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...')
(The second line has been removed in Emacs 29, and the first line has
been made useful in Emacs 28 (you can now click on the segments).)
> and a trailing blank line. Those are a nuisance when navigating using
> `M-<` and `M->'.
>
> Can I suggest the following become standard?
>
> (with-eval-after-load "dired"
> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-<")
> (lambda () (interactive) (beginning-of-buffer) (next-line 2)))
> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M->")
> (lambda () (interactive) (end-of-buffer) (previous-line 1))))
>
> It's truly a small issue, but it's an irritation that multiplies over time.
I don't think we should do something like this in Dired buffers (or
anywhere else, for that matter). I want commands like `M-<' to be
predictable across modes, and I certainly don't want `M->' to take me to
the start of the last line. (What if I want to copy the region to the
clipboard, for instance?)
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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From: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak
References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN>
<CADwFkmkMq2puntmghHbWrRJUhwMk33DXNkv-G0WiA=G4aaBLgg@HIDDEN>
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Cc: 52384 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>
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Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes:
> Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> When visiting a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of contents,
>> but also a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...')
>> and a trailing blank line. Those are a nuisance when navigating using
>> `M-<` and `M->'.
I have already raised this once, a year or two ago. Header in dired is quite
meaningless, for all these years I have ever never wanted to move cursor to
header in dired intentionally.
>> Can I suggest the following become standard?
>>
>> (with-eval-after-load "dired"
>> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-<")
>> (lambda () (interactive) (beginning-of-buffer) (next-line 2)))
>> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M->")
>> (lambda () (interactive) (end-of-buffer) (previous-line 1))))
I have used those shortcut myself for quite some time, maybe a couple of years
or so. They are not so handy as I thought they would be. Mainly because I use
european keyboard, and have to fold in my thumb to access the M, and < and > are
next to shift key, so I have to move entire hand to reach those. I would rather
have Dired to use < and > to go to first and last 'filename' in dired, and M-<
and M-> to go to header. Or just jsut 'p' to go to header from the first line
with a filename, since I think it is so rarely used to actually go to header. I
guess header is useful if modeline is turned off?
> I'm fine with that, but
>
> a) I'd rather have something more general in place that works in more
> modes than just Dired.
>
> b) I think you should be able to go to the absolute beginning or end of
> the buffer with a subsequent M-< or M->.
Yes, in this case that would be better, and use < to move to first filename in
dired.
> For example, in message-mode, I often want to do `message-goto-body',
> but it would be nice if this would happen when I pressed M-< so I don't
> need to remember a special key binding for every mode.
>
> See the package beginend for previous work:
>
> https://github.com/DamienCassou/beginend
>
> (Unfortunately, that package is not on GNU ELPA.)
>
>> It's truly a small issue, but it's an irritation that multiplies over time.
>
Agree with that one too.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
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Perry's message of "Thu, 9 Dec 2021 00:39:39 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <69e7c202-8ad6-46c7-800a-f54f0b314d61@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#52384: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak
To: Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>
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Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN> writes:
> When visiting a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of contents,
> but also a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...')
> and a trailing blank line. Those are a nuisance when navigating using
> `M-<` and `M->'.
>
> Can I suggest the following become standard?
>
> (with-eval-after-load "dired"
> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-<")
> (lambda () (interactive) (beginning-of-buffer) (next-line 2)))
> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M->")
> (lambda () (interactive) (end-of-buffer) (previous-line 1))))
I'm fine with that, but
a) I'd rather have something more general in place that works in more
modes than just Dired.
b) I think you should be able to go to the absolute beginning or end of
the buffer with a subsequent M-< or M->.
For example, in message-mode, I often want to do `message-goto-body',
but it would be nice if this would happen when I pressed M-< so I don't
need to remember a special key binding for every mode.
See the package beginend for previous work:
https://github.com/DamienCassou/beginend
(Unfortunately, that package is not on GNU ELPA.)
> It's truly a small issue, but it's an irritation that multiplies over time.
Yup.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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From: Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>
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Subject: 26.3; dired buffer navigation tweak
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------=_Part_2_76479670.1639010379685
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Hello,
When visiting a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of content=
s,
but also a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...')
and a trailing blank line. Those are a nuisance when navigating using
`M-<` and `M->'.
Can I suggest the following become standard?
(with-eval-after-load "dired"
=C2=A0 (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-<")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (lambda () (interactive) (beginning-of-buffer) (next-line 2))=
)
=C2=A0 (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M->")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (lambda () (interactive) (end-of-buffer) (previous-line 1))))
It's truly a small issue, but it's an irritation that multiplies over time.
Thanks for your consideration.
Cheers,
A.M. Perry
------=_Part_2_76479670.1639010379685
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<html>
<head></head>
<body> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Hello,</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">When visiting a directory in dired-mode, you get not only a list of contents,</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">but also a two-line header ('/path/to/directory' and 'total used ...')</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">and a trailing blank line. Those are a nuisance when navigating using</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">`M-<` and `M->'.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Can I suggest the following become standard?</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">(with-eval-after-load "dired"</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0"> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-<")</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0"> (lambda () (interactive) (beginning-of-buffer) (next-line 2)))</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0"> (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M->")</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0"> (lambda () (interactive) (end-of-buffer) (previous-line 1))))</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">It's truly a small issue, but it's an irritation that multiplies over time.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Thanks for your consideration.</span>
<br>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">Cheers,</span>
<br> <span dir="ltr" style="font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0">A.M. Perry</span>
<br>
</body>
</html>
------=_Part_2_76479670.1639010379685--
Michael Perry <amperry@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52384; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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