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From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
To: Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52399: 28.0.60; easier access to ORG-NEWS
References: <17858.1639097986@alto> <87a6h9fd57.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:12:40 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87a6h9fd57.fsf@HIDDEN> (Kyle Meyer's message of "Thu, 09 Dec
2021 20:43:16 -0500")
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Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN> writes:
>> 3. The entry in NEWS for the Org mode update mentions ORG-NEWS, but it
>> doesn't say how to get to it. (Yes, I know how to get to ORG-NEWS from
>> NEWS. Do we expect random users to understand the layout of an
>> installed Emacs at that level of detail?)
>
> And I guess this one is for Emacs's side at the time of the sync.
>
> I was looking through the NEWS* files in the Emacs repo for guidance
> from other packages, but I see mostly the same thing ("GNUS-NEWS",
> "MH-E-NEWS", "ERC-NEWS", ...). I guess there is one that's a little
> different, though I'm not sure how helpful tacking on "./" is: "See the
> file ./MH-E-NEWS for details".
>
> Do you have any suggestions for what would be more helpful to put there?
28.1 introduces etc-authors-mode; perhaps, in a similar vein, we could
add etc-news-mode, and add have the mode initialization function
buttonize these cross-references?
(Older emacsen would get confused by the "mode: etc-news" clause in
newer NEWS files, though=E2=80=A6)
emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:bug#52399; Package org-mode.
Full text available.
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From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@HIDDEN>
To: Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52399: 28.0.60; easier access to ORG-NEWS
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Dec 2021 20:43:16 -0500."
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Kyle Meyer wrote:
> Mike Kupfer writes:
> > 1. The "Browse Org News" menu item (Org > Documentation > Browse Org
> > News) isn't adequate, because it takes you to orgmode.org.
[...]
> > 2. I don't see a reference to ORG-NEWS in the Org mode section of the
> > Info pages, much less an easy way to get to it.
>
> These two look like something that would be dealt with on Org's side.
> This report has been reassigned there, so perhaps someone on the Org
> list will have thoughts or decide to work on a patch.
Okay, thanks.
> > 3. The entry in NEWS for the Org mode update mentions ORG-NEWS, but it
> > doesn't say how to get to it.
[...]
> And I guess this one is for Emacs's side at the time of the sync.
>
> I was looking through the NEWS* files in the Emacs repo for guidance
> from other packages, but I see mostly the same thing ("GNUS-NEWS",
> "MH-E-NEWS", "ERC-NEWS", ...). I guess there is one that's a little
> different, though I'm not sure how helpful tacking on "./" is: "See the
> file ./MH-E-NEWS for details".
>
> Do you have any suggestions for what would be more helpful to put there?
I thought about it briefly before submitting the bug but didn't come up
with anything I liked. I suppose the "./" is better than nothing, but
I'm not sure it actually provides enough of a clue. Something like "See
the file foo-NEWS (in the same directory as NEWS)" gives enough of a
clue, perhaps, but it strikes me as verbose.
Hmm. I wonder if C-h n should bring up a list of news files, rather
than going straight to NEWS.
cheers,
mike
emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:bug#52399; Package org-mode.
Full text available.
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From: Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN>
To: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#52399: 28.0.60; easier access to ORG-NEWS
In-Reply-To: <17858.1639097986@alto>
References: <17858.1639097986@alto>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 20:43:16 -0500
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Mike Kupfer writes:
> Finding ORG-NEWS seems harder than it should be.
>
> 1. The "Browse Org News" menu item (Org > Documentation > Browse Org
> News) isn't adequate, because it takes you to orgmode.org. The package
> description (C-h P org RET) has the same problem. If you're working
> offline, orgmode.org is not going to be available. Also, it shows the
> news for the latest release, which might not be what you have installed.
> (The news for older releases is available at the bottom of the page, but
> it could be confusing if you don't notice that the news that is first
> presented is for a different release.)
>
> 2. I don't see a reference to ORG-NEWS in the Org mode section of the
> Info pages, much less an easy way to get to it.
These two look like something that would be dealt with on Org's side.
This report has been reassigned there, so perhaps someone on the Org
list will have thoughts or decide to work on a patch.
> 3. The entry in NEWS for the Org mode update mentions ORG-NEWS, but it
> doesn't say how to get to it. (Yes, I know how to get to ORG-NEWS from
> NEWS. Do we expect random users to understand the layout of an
> installed Emacs at that level of detail?)
And I guess this one is for Emacs's side at the time of the sync.
I was looking through the NEWS* files in the Emacs repo for guidance
from other packages, but I see mostly the same thing ("GNUS-NEWS",
"MH-E-NEWS", "ERC-NEWS", ...). I guess there is one that's a little
different, though I'm not sure how helpful tacking on "./" is: "See the
file ./MH-E-NEWS for details".
Do you have any suggestions for what would be more helpful to put there?
emacs-orgmode@HIDDEN:bug#52399; Package org-mode.
Full text available.Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Kyle Meyer <kyle@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Dec 2021 00:59:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 09 19:59:58 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mvUGU-0001bT-4C for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:59:58 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40600) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mkupfer@HIDDEN>) id 1mvUGS-0001bM-QJ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:59:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mkupfer@HIDDEN>) id 1mvUGS-0000WO-Ey for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:59:56 -0500 Received: from shell1.rawbw.com ([198.144.192.42]:60119) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mkupfer@HIDDEN>) id 1mvUGQ-0003vJ-4F for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:59:56 -0500 Received: from alto (96-95-200-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [96.95.200.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell1.rawbw.com (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id 1BA0xkO9006147 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 16:59:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mkupfer@HIDDEN) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.rawbw.com: Host 96-95-200-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [96.95.200.133] claimed to be alto From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 28.0.60; easier access to ORG-NEWS X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 28.0.60 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <17857.1639097986.1@alto> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 16:59:46 -0800 Message-ID: <17858.1639097986@alto> Received-SPF: none client-ip=198.144.192.42; envelope-from=mkupfer@HIDDEN; helo=shell1.rawbw.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Finding ORG-NEWS seems harder than it should be. 1. The "Browse Org News" menu item (Org > Documentation > Browse Org News) isn't adequate, because it takes you to orgmode.org. The package description (C-h P org RET) has the same problem. If you're working offline, orgmode.org is not going to be available. Also, it shows the news for the latest release, which might not be what you have installed. (The news for older releases is available at the bottom of the page, but it could be confusing if you don't notice that the news that is first presented is for a different release.) 2. I don't see a reference to ORG-NEWS in the Org mode section of the Info pages, much less an easy way to get to it. 3. The entry in NEWS for the Org mode update mentions ORG-NEWS, but it doesn't say how to get to it. (Yes, I know how to get to ORG-NEWS from NEWS. Do we expect random users to understand the layout of an installed Emacs at that level of detail?) regards, Mike Kupfer In GNU Emacs 28.0.60 (build 8, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo versi= on 1.16.0, Xaw scroll bars) of 2021-12-02 built on alto Repository revision: 0136a243428efce0400aabfce9c2237ac0346e81 Repository branch: emacs-28-mdk Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) Configured using: 'configure --with-native-compilation --prefix=3D/usr/new' Configured features: CAIRO FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM LUCID ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_TIME: C value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Outline Minor modes in effect: shell-dirtrack-mode: t delete-selection-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t auto-fill-function: do-auto-fill indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t view-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow emacsbug org-element avl-tree generator ol-eww eww xdg url-queue ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus nnselect gnus-search ol-docview doc-view image-mode exif ol-bibtex ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi org-link-doi org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-footnote org-src ob-comint org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-table oc-basic bibtex ol org-keys oc org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec view jka-compr lisp-mnt finder-inf package cal-china lunar solar cal-dst cal-bahai cal-islam cal-hebrew holidays hol-loaddefs diary-lib diary-loaddefs cal-move cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs mh-identity mh-letter ballot cl gnus-fun gnus-mh mh-comp sort gnus-async gnus-bcklg gnus-kill gnus-dup gnus-ml disp-table timezone url-http url-gw url-cache url-auth url-handlers nnrss mm-url gnutls nndoc nndraft nnmh network-stream nsm gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg nntp gnus-cache skeleton sgml-mode facemenu wdired misearch multi-isearch vc-hg diff-mode cl-print debug backtrace dired-aux dired-x ispell comp comp-cstr warnings rx mh-alias crm shr-color color eieio-opt speedbar ezimage dframe find-func shortdoc help-fns radix-tree qp flow-fill cl-extra help-mode mm-archive mail-extr mh-mime mh-gnus mh-show goto-addr thingatpt gnus-cite gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum shr kinsoku svg dom browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars mailcap gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo parse-time iso8601 gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-win gnus-range gnus nnheader wid-edit pp mule-util mh-search mh-thread mh-inc hl-line mh-tool-bar mh-seq mh-xface mh-utils mh-folder which-func imenu mh-scan mh-e mh-compat mh-buffers mh-loaddefs mdk-mail smtpmail sendmail message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs auth-source eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map text-property-search time-date subr-x seq gv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader server noutline outline easy-mmode cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring xcscope advice delsel cl-seq vc vc-dispatcher timeclock cl-loaddefs cl-lib mdk-hacks iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 522335 32097) (symbols 48 33114 4) (strings 32 126936 5000) (string-bytes 1 4084610) (vectors 16 67220) (vector-slots 8 1897578 43209) (floats 8 1017 353) (intervals 56 16783 3110) (buffers 992 54))
Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#52399; Package emacs.
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